Modern Buddy

Have an acquaintance in Southern AZ (OK, sort of a pseudo-ex from a long while ago) who just posted pics of a '74 Vespa in pretty rough shape, but most bits are there. Offered her $200 w/o title just for the hell of it, and as it turns out I may just end up with it.

Engine and all rubber, electrical and..well... everything plastic or rubber is shot obviously. But, the frame looks otherwise solid. Part of me is thinking of throwing in a crate LML 5 port non-injected, non electric start engine, basic hard parts, matching wiring harness and just rat the thing out.

Then part of me wants to slap the hell out of the other part for being such a gullible idiot. Getting an abandoned title, emissions, where to build it while living in a large downtown center...

Which side should win?

No.

Don't do it.

One for no. Would be an easier case if I didn't have such a reliable scoot already...

Big "no" from me as well. While not an exact parallel, my year-long rebuild of the CB has not culminated in any chest-chumping Tarzan-yell moments. It was fun at first, but became really frustrating as time wore on and the delays and expenditures started to pile up. As a matter of fact, I'm putting it up for sale at this very moment.

I'm glad that I tried my hand at restoration, and am also proud of myself for having pushed the envelope on my mechanical skills. But now that I've slain that dragon, I think I'll be going "turnkey" from now on.

No more nostalgic forays for me.

No. Don't do it. Not even if it was free.

I know guys in Nashville that would do it just to be doing it. They enjoy working on Vespas more than riding. These guys are always finding a dog and restoring it to at least running order. They'll come up with yet another rally bike before June -- on this you can rely.
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jprestonian wrote:I know guys in Nashville that would do it just to be doing it. They enjoy working on Vespas more than riding. These guys are always finding a dog and restoring it to at least running order. They'll come up with yet another rally bike before June -- on this you can rely.
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I know several people that would do it just to do it, also. But I have to say that this sounds like it could be a money sinkhole, or at least cost you A LOT to rebuild. The reward could be fantastic, but are you prepared to take the dive financially AND spend the time? If you have to think about the answer at all, then I would also say no... since you have another dependable ride. But if you don't think it would do much damage to your budget or take forever/a lot of your time, then why not?

I do not have an abandoned Vespa, I have this---

http://ventura.craigslist.org/mcy/3440961964.html


Yes it is not $200, but it may save you a lot of headaches

I don't really know the difficulties involved, such as parts cost. I assume a lot of LML stuff would work and I further assume those will be the cheapest parts. Then there's the time involved and how you value it.

Do you have the inclination and space to deal with it?

Is $200 that critical? Is it something you could mothball until you might be more inclined to deal with it?

Would you rather rebuild this one or cough up some more money for one that is at least a runner, or maybe a used-but-good condition Stella?

I'm pretty financially stretched now myself but if I ran across some sort of decent barn find, I might push it in the shed until I gathered enough cash to at least get it running.

I vote no. Do you really need another money pit now?

Well, for all of the facts:

-No, the price isn't critical. I've been spending 5 times that on microphones for work, and this just happened to of come up on my Facebook feed. I made an off hand offer of $200 simply because it was untitled and it was just what I had sitting in the bank account this week. I didn't think she'd be serious about entertaining the offer.

-Space? Actually, I do have a bit. I've been keeping my Agility in the main living room simply because we can, but the landlord finally added more motorcycle parking since there are now 4 scooter and about 5 "café" bikes in the building. This is really turning into a motorcycle friendly joint! Security is great and there's plenty of secure parking (for once!). So, that would leave the front room space open, and it just happens to be the perfect size for a little Primavera. And if I decide to let it sit for a bit, it does no harm since it's indoors, out of the way in the corner of the front room where there is already dedicated space for a bike and in a climate controlled environment. The only stipulation is that I would have to buy more vinyl and stereo gear for my wife's collection to fairly balance the hobbies... that could be the *real* expensive part

-Difficult? I wouldn't say that much. Try rebuilding 3 Mackie 24/4 VLZ consoles in one week. That is difficult. This would be a leisure project, without time pressures because we already have a well running SUV and another bike with barely 4k miles on it. All LML parts pretty much fit right on, and a new crate motor would probably be in order. Would be fun to try some DIY painting again since I have a few ideas. It would be a hobby bike and not some critical bit of transportation. As with work and school having been full tilt (3 days off in 3 months), I'm getting to the point that after March, things start slowing down for me. I need a frickin' hobby that isn't theater or music production!

- Toot: That's a pretty sharp bike for the money! Why are you looking to get rid of it? If you still have it around the end of January or February I would probably be very interested if I don't pick this bike up. Granted a frame up would probably be the most fun, but that looks like a darned good daily rider for not a lot of coin. Of course, the cost of driving to California and picking it up and bringing it back would have to be factored in, but still....

There still hasn't been any word from the seller, and I've been thinking about a real vintage Vespa for a while. The Stella I've got interest in isn't seeming to be a viable thing simply because the kid is a bit of a flake about getting me the title, and if I got to go through the whole re-title thing, it might as well be on a bike that is worth it. I've done it before, and once you've been through the abandoned title thing, you learn the tricks to get it done easy enough.

DO IT!

Forget the LML. You have to drop the motor no matter what so open it up and see what's going on. Probably going to need seals and maybe bearings...not a big deal.

As far as parts cost...most are pretty cheap. A stock top end is like $150, full clutch rebuild like $60.

It's when you get into the more exotic models..GS 150, GS 160, SS 180 do you run into model specific hard to find parts

Also remember that there is a big difference between a rebuild and a restoration. A rebuild can be done without dumping a lot of cash. A restoration...where it is "restored" to the condition it rolled off the line can get expensive. It took me over a year to find the correct tuna can tail light for my 68 SS180. I also have a 2008 Buddy 125 that I bought non running and have it "rebuilt" and running great for under $550 total.


For two bills I would be all over it. worse comes to worse you can part it out for more than that.

As for title, you can register it in Vermont and then transfer registration to your state. The one thing I would confirm before purchase is that it isn't flagged as stolen in the DMV database. You could ask your local police to run it. That said, I never do that I just go with my gut.

When I do this procedure for bikes without paperwork, I take a hi-res pic of the VIN and include it with my VT application. I've had no issues, no paperwork kickback and no request for more VIN proof.

As long as the bike is under 300cc and older than 10 years, you're good to go. You do not need to be a VT resident, nor have an address in VT.

I support VT by camping/riding up there at least twice a year and spending my money in LOCAL general stores and state campgrounds. VT rocks.

http://dmv.vermont.gov/registrations

I haven't been posting here much so I'm giving advice from a stranger but I say go for it! Open her up, new main bearings and seals, light sanding of the piston and barrel new piston rings, clean carb and tank, new fuel line, clean brake mechanisms. At that point you're running around the parking lot with the biggest grin on you're face you ever had for less than $400! Spend a couple days here and there getting a title and you've got a great antique bike with baskets full of street credit and you'll be a better person for it. Worst that can happen is you loose steam along the way and you sell it for what you have in it. Even without a title and engine in pieces I'll bet you could offload it on CL.

Buy it. Worst case scenario- you have a really nice "someday" project. Or a really cool bar stool. Or the most awesome rusty beer cooler on the west coast (ok, it won't hold much beer, or keep it cold, but it'll look bad ass ).

I say do it! I did it. And I've done nothing with it yet. But what's the harm? 200 bucks is a cheap way to spend all those hours pouring through it and the manuals. Sometimes I just go up to the attic where my 90 is and just play with the motor, get my hands greasy and drink a beer. I'm not even joking. Mine was already worth the cost just for those moments when I open the motor, make things turn as I watch and say, "OH! That's how it works!"

Of course mine was $50. Talk her down if you're still on the fence?

By the way- I second "Forget the LML motor". I had 'plans' initially of making a rusted out rat bike with the whole 130 kit and pipes and and and and... I wanted it to look scary and ride like the devil. But then I realized- It isn't worth it. And I'd be cheating myself if I just bought everything done. Because what it IS worth is just the learning experience and the pride in what I've done with it myself whether is ever gets running or whether I've just rebuilt the motor, or whatever.

Mine is fallen off the DMV grid, so it doesn't cost anything to tinker with. Sounds like yours will be much the same.

If all you have in the bank is $200 and you're offering that up to buy a scrapheap of a scooter while you have a perfectly functional scooter... Hell, I can't offer you any advice you'd actually follow.

Go for it. Ramen's still almost free, right?

However, if you're actually taking suggestions and advice, wait until you're in a much more financially secure place to take up a money and time sink project like this.

Good luck either way.

Eh, I'd do it, but I have low standards on what I'll rebuild/ride. Hell, you should see the '65 Allstate I have at the garage for renovation, it's dangerously close to being misclassified as scrap iron. The P200 won Ugliest But Runs at the Fiesta this weekend. Already mulling over which wreck I'll bring next year.

I second BuddyRaton and fix the original rotary-valve motor. They're less needy in the long run and when properly ported will beat a reed valve any day.

Some great suggestions on here! As for not "having enough", the $200 was just a random offer for a non-titled frame, and it's what I'm comfortable with in "splurge money" for this month, since January/Feb is my royalty check month (finally!).

She hasn't responded yet, but she said it may not be until Wednesday. It's looking like the general consensus is that I sould just rebuild the rotary valve mill that's in it now. A new piston and head isn't terribly expensive, and while I've never rebuilt a gearbox, I suppose there's no better time to learn. Right now I'm just weighing options since this month is jammed with end of year bookings, end of semester student workers trying to cram hours and performances and my own homework (yes, I'm doing 22 credit hours of my own studies while working at a university venue and another club).

I leave the details tl all tbosr above whk know better but for 200 bucks, I say go for it. I,ve made much more expensive mistakes.

Edwub wrote:No.

Don't do it.

I'd like to rephrase this after reading most of the other comments in this thread.

I'd agree to go for it if someone else were the one purchasing it, but my "no" vote was specific for you, based on reading other threads and posts you've made about how you've been burned and/or cash-strapped. (Some of which were rather recent...within 6 months?). As you have a working scooter, I'd strongly suggest you not take another chance again so soon. Especially as you're clearly very busy... If you do decide to go forward with it, which it reads as if you have been sinc ethe OP, all the best luck.

Just my 2 cents, since you asked for it, no offense intended with any of it.

So, it's a '74. Which model, anyway? Super? Sprint? Rally? Inquiring minds wanna know.

Edwub wrote:I'd agree to go for it if someone else were the one purchasing it, but my "no" vote was specific for you, based on reading other threads and posts you've made about how you've been burned and/or cash-strapped.

This.

I've, ah, "voted with my heart" under similar circumstances in past...and gotten handed my ass.

To this day, my shibboleth (from the Personal Finance cognoscenti) is If I can't afford it, it ain't a bargain.

redhandmoto wrote:

Edwub wrote:I'd agree to go for it if someone else were the one purchasing it, but my "no" vote was specific for you, based on reading other threads and posts you've made about how you've been burned and/or cash-strapped.

This.

I've, ah, "voted with my heart" under similar circumstances in past...and gotten handed my ass.

To this day, my shibboleth (from the Personal Finance cognoscenti) is If I can't afford it, it ain't a bargain.

I think some people are missing the point: I can afford it, and wouldn't be buying if I could not. Especially another bike. 6 months is an eternity in the entertainment industry, and let's just say the past two years of being cash strapped by design are finally paying off. I have 20 gigs this month, and 39 next month with February culminating in 41 gigs *so far* (Yes, there are as many as three shows per day in some cases). So, this isn't an immediate project by any stretch nor would it ever be done in time for Amerivespa. We were saving up for a new car, but my wife is content on keeping the Tracker until the wheels fall off, so that's even more security. And, I already have notice that I'm only a few contracts away from an off-season gig and possibly a summer arts camp teaching position for sound and music, which will be even more cash in a time when I'm usually the most lean. And they say the economy isn't picking up...

Of course, nothing is fur sure, but 200 in the frame and another grand in parts isn't a major issue.

az_slynch wrote:So, it's a '74. Which model, anyway? Super? Sprint? Rally? Inquiring minds wanna know.

It's a 150 Super. Nothing outstanding but it's inexpensive and the frame is all there in one piece. I figured it would get me a chance to paint up something nice using a new satin technique that a scenic designer was showing me how to do. It's a little like powder coating but using a different enamel than one would think of using. I'm still reading up on it but it looks REAL interesting and very DIY friendly. It's become quite a thing on prop maker forums for metal objects and it could add a bit of difference to the bike.

BuddyRaton wrote:DO IT!

Forget the LML. You have to drop the motor no matter what so open it up and see what's going on. Probably going to need seals and maybe bearings...not a big deal.

As far as parts cost...most are pretty cheap. A stock top end is like $150, full clutch rebuild like $60.

It's when you get into the more exotic models..GS 150, GS 160, SS 180 do you run into model specific hard to find parts

Also remember that there is a big difference between a rebuild and a restoration. A rebuild can be done without dumping a lot of cash. A restoration...where it is "restored" to the condition it rolled off the line can get expensive. It took me over a year to find the correct tuna can tail light for my 68 SS180. I also have a 2008 Buddy 125 that I bought non running and have it "rebuilt" and running great for under $550 total.


For two bills I would be all over it. worse comes to worse you can part it out for more than that.

^^^ THIS...I agree, if it turns out to be junk, part it out, get your money back.. If not REBUILD it cheap, don't restore. Have a vintage runner. Put good tarps down in apt. and do it.

OR...skip it and get a runner for 1500...your call. depends on your free time

neotrotsky wrote:
It's a 150 Super. Nothing outstanding but it's inexpensive and the frame is all there in one piece. I figured it would get me a chance to paint up something nice using a new satin technique that a scenic designer was showing me how to do. It's a little like powder coating but using a different enamel than one would think of using. I'm still reading up on it but it looks REAL interesting and very DIY friendly. It's become quite a thing on prop maker forums for metal objects and it could add a bit of difference to the bike.

Supers are pretty cool. Still on 8"s, but they rock the wide 4" tires. The gearing is also pretty interesting. I believe it has a 67T cush and a 22T clutch drive for longer legs. The carb should be at least replaced with a SI20-20D. I have a similar motor for a 125 TS (engine only, no frame) that I'm going to be experimenting with in the spring, one I finish two smallframe rebuilds and get my yellow P200 assembled.

Southerner wrote:I leave the details tl all tbosr above whk know better but for 200 bucks, I say go for it. I,ve made much more expensive mistakes.

(Can anybody tell I entered that from my phone? I thought you could.)

I don't want to be the one tempting you to make a bad personal decision. I was just saying that 200 buck shouldn't be back-breaking. You're the best judge of your own situation.

I figure that if you have a runner and want this one, it's about having a real Vespa again.