Prima Pipe vs. Stock Pipe

rodneydnelson · Post by **rodneydnelson** » Fri Jun 21, 2013 10:48 pm

I recently posted this in response to another thread here, but I thought perhaps it would be good to have its own. I see a lot of questions about the sound of the Prima pipe and how loud it may be. This is just a simple video of my 150 before and after the pipe install. Hopefully it gives you a sense of the difference.

I find the Prima to have a much more pleasant tone, and not dramatically louder.

<iframe width="853" height="480" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/n7hn0r8rGRg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

mike_cor · Post by **mike_cor** » Sun Jun 23, 2013 2:51 am

Great video, the new pipe sounds really good. I'm thinking of upgrading my Italia too. Did you do it yourself or have it done at the shop?

rodneydnelson · Post by **rodneydnelson** » Sun Jun 23, 2013 4:15 am

I mounted the pipe myself. It was a simple 10 minute job. There are just 4 bolts and a gasket. It's important to loosely mount all 4 bolts before final tightening. This helps avoid leaks and structural stresses.

mike_cor · Post by **mike_cor** » Sun Jun 23, 2013 4:38 am

Interesting, so you didn't have to rejet?

I've taken the stock exhaust off before to change the back tire and I feel pretty confident in changing it but the rejetting has me thinking I should just have a shop do it.

SonnyD · Post by **SonnyD** » Sun Jun 23, 2013 12:56 pm

not to horn in...but on the rejet.... I think it's an altitude thing. Meaning, depending on your altitude. I had the stock jet in mine for a week. It felt good, but maybe just a little flat at the very top. I plan on doing some longer rides this summer, and with the heat, my almost 200 pounds and all, I asked about a rejet. We ended up putting a two step higher jet in because we didn't have the next step up. Two steps up was waaaayyyy to fat...at around 55 idicated it's starts spitting and coughing... Just waiting for the one step about stock jet to arrive. I'm at about 900=1000 feet above sea level here in Kansas city... Higher elevation in that might need a rejet, and lower probably not. Just my opinion, I'm sure people will input that..I've seen people from all altitudes saying they left it stock...

Tocsik · Post by **Tocsik** » Sun Jun 23, 2013 3:07 pm

Thanks for posting that! It's cool to hear a new pipe.

I'm sharing a video of mine with over 31K miles on the Prima pipe. Video sound is not quite as clear as yours, though.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/xjYgZLnriA8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

rodneydnelson · Post by **rodneydnelson** » Sun Jun 23, 2013 4:38 pm

I did not re-jet. I am am basically at sea level though, and as SonnyD suggests, it may not be necessary. I have had no performance problems. I may try a slight up-jet at some point, just to see if it makes a difference.

SonnyD · Post by **SonnyD** » Sun Jun 23, 2013 10:23 pm

Yeah, I'd try it without a reject first. My plug was fairly white, but the mechanic commented that these engines like to run lean. I will be interested to see how it runs with just one step up. I still may have to end up staying stock, we will soon find out.

dtcrouch · Post by **dtcrouch** » Wed Jun 26, 2013 2:03 am

not to burst any bubbles the prima 4t pipes are crap from my experience they rust and fall apart the ncy from scooterworks is much better take the plug out for 125s anything bigger leave it in they like the back pressure

Tocsik · Post by **Tocsik** » Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:25 am

dtcrouch wrote:not to burst any bubbles the prima 4t pipes are crap from my experience they rust and fall apart the ncy from scooterworks is much better take the plug out for 125s anything bigger leave it in they like the back pressure

I have 31,000 miles on my Prima.
And the NCY is fugly.

So, yeah, bubble not burst.

lovemysan · Post by **lovemysan** » Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:30 am

I had a local welder put mine back together after I cut out the silencer. He said the welds were very nice on the prima.

dtcrouch · Post by **dtcrouch** » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:01 am

w 31k you got you of the good ones and im just speaking from my experience im sure other people have had different experiences w them

SonnyD · Post by **SonnyD** » Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:17 am

LOLOLOL That is about the first negative I've ever read about the Prima pipe..... and hey, it was less then 100 shipped to my door.....It's a pretty darn heavy duty pipe, and if ridden enough to dry the moisture out, I would think it would last forever.... and as mentioned it's a Great looking pipe....

As someone that has been riding close to 50 years I don't believe I ever had a rusted out pipe on anything before, except some BMW mufflers that were prone to rust out near the outlet if the drain holes were not kept clean....

lovemysan · Post by **lovemysan** » Wed Jun 26, 2013 2:04 pm

dtcrouch wrote:w 31k you got you of the good ones and im just speaking from my experience im sure other people have had different experiences w them

I know they had issues with the early ones. There were plenty of threads about cracked ones. Also if the shims are not correct they'll crack fairly easily.

SonnyD · Post by **SonnyD** » Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:16 pm

Mine seems beefy as heck, the welds look solid and beautiful, and it's installed correctly....I'm not going to worry about it.... If you dig hard enough, you can always find problems with any product....especially if they are sold in large volumes..... I belong to an Accord/Civic forum....you see people there that have had many problems, and just about the same with any manufacturer....of anything... I don't pay attention to any of it, as long as it's not a documented design flaw........ I remember when I bought my Saturn... and posted about it.....I got tons of people telling me how the Head was going to crack and cause me problems...read lots of posts.... Well, 14 years later....it hasn't cracked and the car is still running as good as new...and with the ethanol gas still gets 29mpg in town, and 40+ on the highway.... It could crack tomorrow, but if it did, it wouldn't owe me a dime!! LOLOLOL

tortoise · Post by **tortoise** » Wed Sep 04, 2013 3:05 am

Christophers · Post by **Christophers** » Wed Sep 04, 2013 3:30 am

dtcrouch wrote:not to burst any bubbles the prima 4t pipes are crap from my experience they rust and fall apart the ncy from scooterworks is much better take the plug out for 125s anything bigger leave it in they like the back pressure

I'm quite pleased with the sound, performance and look of the Prima pipe on my Blackjack. However, they are known to suffer from poor welding. I've been watching the welds on my pipe, and as several others have discovered, the welds on my Prima have not held up.

Does anyone have a suggestion about how to best fix this? Is the pipe done? Is it cheaper to replace it or is there an economical and satisfactory way to repair this?

Throwback7R · Post by **Throwback7R** » Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:30 pm

find someone with a TIG welder " most muffler shops will have one and get them to weld it.

Robbie · Post by **Robbie** » Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:34 pm

I would drill/bolt the ears back in position using stainless fasteners.
This way, the chrome won't be ruined with welding heat and the fasteners won't react with the steel brackets.
Unless there is even more damage where that would no longer be feasable.
Then, welding is your only recourse.

That is just awful welding at the brackets.....no penetration whatsoever......doomed to fail.

Rob

skully93 · Post by **skully93** » Wed Sep 04, 2013 3:39 pm

I've had mine on for 8k miles now, and it's fine, even though we have abusive streets in Denver.

I do keep an eye out on the welds every so often though.

Christophers · Post by **Christophers** » Wed Sep 04, 2013 5:39 pm

Robbie wrote:I would drill/bolt the ears back in position using stainless fasteners.
This way, the chrome won't be ruined with welding heat and the fasteners won't react with the steel brackets.

Rob

I was thinking about attempting a fix this way (through-bolting with stainless steel hardware). Has anyone done this or had any experience with this fix for a Prima Pipe? If so, how well has it worked and held up?

Christophers · Post by **Christophers** » Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:32 pm

Christophers wrote:
Robbie wrote:I would drill/bolt the ears back in position using stainless fasteners.
This way, the chrome won't be ruined with welding heat and the fasteners won't react with the steel brackets.

Rob
I was thinking about attempting a fix this way (through-bolting with stainless steel hardware). Has anyone done this or had any experience with this fix for a Prima Pipe? If so, how well has it worked and held up?

Chatted with my mechanic and he recommended against drilling and through-bolting the bracket as it could cause stress fractures and failure down the road.

Now I'm hoping to get pics of the bracket that Jijifer has on her Prima Pipe. It's lasted 20,000 miles since Robot at Vespa Motorsport fabricated it for her.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:48 pm

I went with an NCY pipe after reading about all the Prima weld failures. After three years I am still pleased with it

lovemysan · Post by **lovemysan** » Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:36 pm

I noticed after I installed my big bore kit the pipe was standing 7/8" off the mount. Bolting it on with the supplied spacers would have stressed the pipe and mount. I took some extra time to make sure that there was no twisting forces being applied by the mounting hardware. For a new spacer I used a cheap chinese 1/2" socket and 2 washers on the bottom bolt. Can't remember on the top bolt. I would advise everyone to make sure that there pipe fitment is good.

MYSCTR · Post by **MYSCTR** » Thu Sep 05, 2013 11:07 pm

We did the research and was quite skeptical of how the Prima pipe would hold up when we got our first pipe yet we have ran two of these on three scooters for over 20,000 miles the past few years and not had any problems.

We really like the first video - yet have found each scooter has its own sound or "growl" as my wife says. My 150 has a big bore 170 and has a deeper sound, yet all three sound good and will get the attention of the drivers around you if you want. Just goose it.

Something else that is pretty cool - or hot - is I noticed when following my wife in slow traffic or taking off from a light you can really feel the exhaust hit you as the rider in front takes off with both air force and sound. Normally I am in front so I never knew how strong this is. Pretty cool!

SonnyD · Post by **SonnyD** » Fri Sep 06, 2013 1:28 pm

3000 hard miles on mine so far and not a hint of a problem...I just wonder is some of the failures are from mounting error, with the spacer, and getting a flex in it??? Mine still looks like new. While 3000 miles isn't a bunch, I'm pretty confident that it's going to last a LONG time.....

jijifer · Post by **jijifer** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:07 am

Hoped the pictures helped. the bracket robot made has held up super well. You'll have loads of vibration with that 181 kit so you're gonna need the reinforcement.

Christophers · Post by **Christophers** » Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:58 am

jijifer wrote:Hoped the pictures helped. the bracket robot made has held up super well. You'll have loads of vibration with that 181 kit so you're gonna need the reinforcement.

It completely was. Thank you!