[NSR] The End of Car Culture

[Mary Somerville]

The NYT documents a trend that my housemate and I have been noticing for a while. The youngstahs are not getting driver's licenses, and quality public transport is a real draw for them. My city is carving out bike lanes and surveying usage quite a bit.

It's not mentioned in this piece, but I think that means there is a good potential for more alternatives like scooters, as gap fillers for some of the needs.

I like the trend though.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/30/sunda ... .html?_r=0

[J33pman]

Sometimes I wish we had good public transport. (And a grid-based city--this town is car town!) It takes an hour by bus to go somewhere it takes 10 minutes by scoot.

I live so close to work and there are tons of bus stops, but no routes to where I want to go. So it's the scoot and the cage when it's raining. I sure get a lot of envious stares when I putt by the bus stops.

[gar1013]

If today's youth aren't in to cars, it can only be due to bad parenting.

First time I sat my toddler on my scooter, he knew to make "brrrm brrrm" noises without even being told that it was a motorized vehicle.

If it has wheels, the boy loves it!

It's actually kinda funny/sweet, because when he sees someone is a wheelchair he gets really excited and goes over to them to grab their wheels - usually good for smiles all around, as he is ridiculously charming.

[JHScoot]

i like car culture, even if i wouldn't own a car unless i had to or drive one unless you pay me

for those who drive, cars are awesome. bikes / scooters etc are awesome in ways no car could ever be, but for what its worth its a death-defying activity in some areas. several times people have expressed a desire to ride to me but are scared of traffic. understandable, but thats sort of the point for some anti-car folks. to reduce it. oh well.....

i think for those thoughtful enough or cash strapped or whatever they are folks....public transport people? yeah, them. the ones who are "going it" without a car? whatever their motive they would be riding a motorbike by now if it was going to "catch on." especially if to take a place of a car

nope. i would say they should stick to the bus or a bicycle until they get their dream Prius. i mean its a nice thought, riding will become a "thing to do." but nah. it takes balls

[TVB]

for those who drive, cars are awesome.

Huh? I drive a car, but I don't consider them "awesome" at all. I have never found them interesting; until I was in high school the only models I could identify by name were the ones my parents owned, and the VW Beetle. I was more than happy to take public trasportation and maybe walk a bit for the 6 months I spent in various places in Europe, and mostly got around town that way where I live now for a few years before I got the scooter. Maybe I was just ahead of my time, or I'm still in touch with the young generation today.

[Mary Somerville]

I don't expect cars will vanish. Nor trucks--and if more people have stuff like groceries delivered, there might even be an increase there.

But if the proportion of cagers to everyone else changes, that could be a good thing for the rest of us on the roads. I always thought that part of the reason Europeans were better at tolerating cycles was because so many of them also cycled, even if they do have a car for the household.

Maybe instead of a second car a family gets a scooter for the quick trips to the grocery store, or pick up pizza.

Certainly scooting is not for everyone. I would just like to see less attention and deference to personal autos.

[JHScoot]

for those who drive, cars are awesome.

Huh? I drive a car, but I don't consider them "awesome" at all. I have never found them interesting; until I was in high school the only models I could identify by name were the ones my parents owned, and the VW Beetle. I was more than happy to take public trasportation and maybe walk a bit for the 6 months I spent in various places in Europe, and mostly got around town that way where I live now for a few years before I got the scooter. Maybe I was just ahead of my time, or I'm still in touch with the young generation today.

not for those who roll timidly down the street in a Beetle or some other car they can't name....but those who drive, tvb

I don't expect cars will vanish. Nor trucks--and if more people have stuff like groceries delivered, there might even be an increase there.

But if the proportion of cagers to everyone else changes, that could be a good thing for the rest of us on the roads. I always thought that part of the reason Europeans were better at tolerating cycles was because so many of them also cycled, even if they do have a car for the household.

Maybe instead of a second car a family gets a scooter for the quick trips to the grocery store, or pick up pizza.

Certainly scooting is not for everyone. I would just like to see less attention and deference to personal autos.

well i agree with you, there. i just don't see how that could happen. i wish it would, and i too cannot fathom why any american household with some disposable income cannot have at least ONE $5000 bike to go with the $60,000+ worth of three cars parked in the driveway. i mean even if not much disposable income in my mind a bike is a NEED. same way people see their cars. as necessities. but try to convince your average soccer mom 'n dad they need a motorcycle or at least should have one standing by and they'll speed away in the minivan as fast as they can....

....in a minivan

[gar1013]

not for those who roll timidly down the street in a Beetle or some other car they can't name....but those who drive, tvb

I'm not sure I'd use drive for going 95km/h in a Porsche -- that's only like 59 mph.

What's more, I suspect the car is in 3rd or 4th gear, so it's not like there's a hard acceleration run being done here. As memory serves me, you could just about hit that speed in 2nd gear in my old aircooled 911 (a 1984).


Then again, you get definite bonus points for featuring a brand that has produced on of the most enjoyable cars I've ever owned. Really and truly, an air-cooled 911 is one of the few vehicles that can be described as the distilled essence of driving a car.

On my 911, 95% of the air that came out of the A/C came from two small vents that had NOTHING to do with the rest of the air ducts in the car. Most of the vents in the car were for either outside air, or heated air, and there were a series of levers one had to move to direct the mix of air, where it came out of, and how fast it did so. Furthermore, hot air had to be sourced by lifting levers situated between the front seats. The blower in my car was broken, so you needed to be moving to have hot air actually FLOWING. That being said, I have never felt such hot air coming out of a car. It was melt your feet fantastic.

Besides needing an engineering degree to figure out how to operate the climate control system, you had the joy of a cable operated clutch -- much like an older motorcycle, but not nearly as forgiving. Basically, do it slightly wrong and you'd either stall, be needlessly riding the clutch (clutch replacement was NOT cheap on these cars), or you'd break something. These cars didn't peel out, because the weight was over the rear tires.

The steering was not power steering. If you were totally stopped, this sucked. If you could be rolling just the tiniest bit, it was manageable. When you're hauling ass, it was the greatest steering EVAR.

You also had to keep the revs fairly high on the older cars -- too low, and you'd eventually wear out the bearings on the input shaft of the rear transaxle. So, the car usually sounded like it was gearing up for a fight with someone....but when you really wound it out, it was glorious. Positively glorius. Once the engine came "on cam", it was like you replaced it with an angry version of your engine.

The shifting on the olds 911s kinda sucked. Much like a Stella, but in a different way. Bad shifting techiques by many usually resulted in synchros that don't work very well in a lot of cars. The throw for the shifter was long, it required a combination of finesse and strength, and you're talking about a shifter being connected to a rod that ran from the shifter all the way back to between the rear seats, where there was a coupling linking it to the selector on the transaxle. It was a total bugger to actually dial in if you tried to do the work yourself in terms of bushing and coupling replacement.

Still, this was the most fun I've had in a car -- it's the closest thing I'll ever get to driving a proper race car on the street. No frills. Just car. Vroom.

[wheelbender6]

My kids did not get the same thrill from obtaining a drivers license that I did, Cars are just less important to them.

[BuddyRaton]

"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers."


Attributed to SOCRATES by Plato (by some people)

[Southerner]

My kids did not get the same thrill from obtaining a drivers license that I did, Cars are just less important to them.

I have noticed this phenomenon as well. Where we live public transport isn't feasible; we're too rural. My son was glad to get his license for the freedom it represented- the freedom to drive himself to Gamestop. For him and so many these days a car is simply a way to get from Point A to Point B.

For us, it was a rite of passage.

But I guess neither view is right or wrong.

[gar1013]

When you can just play video games online against people, or use the Internet to interact, getting out and having the freedom to go places probably seems less important.

In 100 years, we will be a nation of troglodytes?

[SYMbionic Duo]

yes, but that's because Skynet will have us cowering underground.

[TVB]

In 100 years, we will be a nation of troglodytes?

Yes, and in another 800,000 years, we'll be a world of Eloi and Morlocks.

100 years ago, no teenagers had driver's licenses, and settled for doing things within a few miles of their homes. Times change.

[jrsjr]

In 100 years, we will be a nation of troglodytes?

In 100 years? Clearly, you did not live in a "battleground state" during the last presidential election.

[ericalm]

When you can just play video games online against people, or use the Internet to interact, getting out and having the freedom to go places probably seems less important.

In 100 years, we will be a nation of troglodytes?

Why wait? Bet we could do it in 25!

One of the great things scootering has done for me is that I get out more. (Not like I was an agoraphobe before…) I meet more people, many of whom I'd never have met otherwise and some of whom are now among my most valued friends. And I've experienced the area where I live in ways that many natives haven't, seen things and been places they don't even know about.

Then I go home and get on the forums and Facebook!

Because at the same time, using the Internet to interact has been a huge boon to my real life, reconnecting me with old friends, keeping us in contact and allowing me to meet people from across the globe. I've met many MB members in "real life" now and have become friends with many of them as well!

I know that's not exactly what you're talking about here, but I do think (hope) that as time goes by, first world humans will learn to use all this tech to complement their worlds, not replace them. It's all less than one generation old and like any of the big leaps in technology, it takes a while for society to catch up and adapt.

[Syd]

My kids did not get the same thrill from obtaining a drivers license that I did, Cars are just less important to them.

Because cars today are a pile of sameness. A Subaru looks like a Volvo that looks like a Jag that looks like a Taurus. The Scion Xb doesn't have the uniqueness it had when it came out. The new Beetle is morphing towards the Audi TT. Every mini-van looks like every other mini-van.

Where is the Rambler, the Stud, the El Camino? They weren't safe, they weren't always reliable, but you could tell a Dodge from a Ford, dammit.

[gar1013]

100 years ago, no teenagers had driver's licenses, and settled for doing things within a few miles of their homes. Times change.

That's not true -- they typically died or got married and started having kids.

But seriously, my grandmother on my mom's side would have been 100 this year. She married at age 16 and my eldest uncle was born that year.

One of her sisters died from burns as a child when she was too close to the fireplace. Another sister died in childbirth.

Kids today have it easy!

[SYMbionic Duo]

Cars are mostly generic and boring now, which is why we are seeing a resurgence of styling cues and or models from the 60's and 70s.

Problem is, all the iconic cars were either muscle cars (GTO, Mustang, Charger), or economy cars (Bug, Mini), or quirky for utility (Camino, Brat, Ranchero). And the Bug's and Mini's are too big and expensive now. The Muscle cars all look the same, (Mustang at least looks like a Mustang), And subaru tried to bring back the Brat as the Baja, and it didn't sell.

Personally, I think that safety and fuel efficiency in addition to ubiquitous entertainment at home are killing new car culture.

Course there will always be people like me that think it's the Cat's PJs to drive/ ride around on vintage/classic machines that are unreliable an not really safe. Make every day an adventure i say!

[az_slynch]

Course there will always be people like me that think it's the Cat's PJs to drive/ ride around on vintage/classic machines that are unreliable an not really safe. Make every day an adventure i say!

I should to let you try my kitted Ciao SC out. Going 45 on a moped that was only meant to go 25, with no covers on the drivetrain and a tiny Vespa 2T engine screaming along at something over 9K RPM (between your feet) is inherently silly and leaves you with a buzzing "I'm gonna die on this thing!" feeling...sixty percent of the time, everytime.

[SYMbionic Duo]

Next time i'm in AZ you're on!

[Southerner]

When you can just play video games online against people, or use the Internet to interact, getting out and having the freedom to go places probably seems less important.

In 100 years, we will be a nation of troglodytes?

Why wait? Bet we could do it in 25!

One of the great things scootering has done for me is that I get out more. (Not like I was an agoraphobe before…) I meet more people, many of whom I'd never have met otherwise and some of whom are now among my most valued friends. And I've experienced the area where I live in ways that many natives haven't, seen things and been places they don't even know about.

Then I go home and get on the forums and Facebook!

Because at the same time, using the Internet to interact has been a huge boon to my real life, reconnecting me with old friends, keeping us in contact and allowing me to meet people from across the globe. I've met many MB members in "real life" now and have become friends with many of them as well!

I know that's not exactly what you're talking about here, but I do think (hope) that as time goes by, first world humans will learn to use all this tech to complement their worlds, not replace them. It's all less than one generation old and like any of the big leaps in technology, it takes a while for society to catch up and adapt.

Mobile tech may change that. For example, there was a time when a phone was a thing attached to the wall in your house. Now you carry it and it's part of you, not your house. I can already see the same paradigm shift with smartphones, tablets and the new, smaller laptops.

Oh, and back in the day, I hankered for a Brat but even I had to admit it was dog-ugly. The Baja was much better. Can't understand why the Baja didn't sell and the Hummer SUT did. But to each his own.

[Wolfhound]

Scooter sales may boom if the predicted rise in gas prices happens. But then again, maybe not. I live in the country and have to use my CRV for a lot of
my transport needs. Scooters and motorcycles are a hobby thing in this
country, a real necessity in other parts of the world.

[charlie55]

Course there will always be people like me that think it's the Cat's PJs to drive/ ride around on vintage/classic machines that are unreliable an not really safe. Make every day an adventure i say!

Yeah, I somehow miss the Mercury Bobcat (Ford Pinto with lockwashers) I drove during the 80's. Every trip was a flirtation with flaming death.

In the interest of safety, I switched from regular smokes to 100's, theorizing that that it'd give me a couple more seconds before the conflagration reached my face.

[skully93]

I think Eric hit it on the head.

Grew up in a small town, so being able to drive was enormous to my life, especially since I had been constantly abused by the same people for 10 years. Driving allowed me to go other places, and start over with new impressions for people.

I was also handy with CB radios, so that expanded the range further. Don't like the people you're talking to? change the channel.

Then the internet was in it's toddler stages, so I could talk gamerspeak with others too. Sweet!

But after 20 years of living in larger cities, the scooter represents a different model altogether. And it's pretty sweet .

[michelle_7728]

Oh, and back in the day, I hankered for a Brat but even I had to admit it was dog-ugly. The Baja was much better. Can't understand why the Baja didn't sell and the Hummer SUT did. But to each his own.

I always liked the Brat/Baja too, but felt they were way too overpriced.

...Why did Subaru get rid of the 'Hill Hugger' feature? I loved that on my burgandy 5-speed 1988 Turbo 4X4 Loyale station wagon.

[jrsjr]

Course there will always be people like me that think it's the Cat's PJs to drive/ ride around on vintage/classic machines that are unreliable an not really safe. Make every day an adventure i say!

I should to let you try my kitted Ciao SC out. Going 45 on a moped that was only meant to go 25, with no covers on the drivetrain and a tiny Vespa 2T engine screaming along at something over 9K RPM (between your feet) is inherently silly and leaves you with a buzzing "I'm gonna die on this thing!" feeling...sixty percent of the time, everytime.

You should sell tickets to that experience. I'd buy one in a NY minute!