Phil McCaleb stepping down.

[Southerner]

Honestly, I think I could take anybody without an absolute mental block into a pasture somewhere and teach them to shift a small dirt bike in about an hour, maybe less.

It really needs to be somewhere soft and the bike needs to be small and unintimidating. Somebody with experience on a CVT scoot would certainly have a head start over an absolute beginner.

And yes, I, too, was surprised at the seat height of the Stella.

I admire Genuine's customer-friendly vibe and hope their dealership network expands soon. I actually saw 3 Buddys (and one Stella) in Auburn a couple of weeks ago and the nearest dealers are in Atlanta (80+ miles) and Birmingham (120+ miles) so I know people around here are researching and are willing to travel to get them.

[ericalm]

Honestly, I think I could take anybody without an absolute mental block into a pasture somewhere and teach them to shift a small dirt bike in about an hour, maybe less.

For almost five decades, the large majority of people who learned to ride a scooter did so on a shifty. And, let's face it, it's not like everyone on a motorcycle is endowed with amazing dexterity or special biker skills.

But the automatics are there and that's what people want. The CVT is a very well designed system and it pretty much removes the need for shifting a scooter — particularly anything under 350cc or so.

I just like it because it's fun.

[Southerner]

I would enjoy the freedom to be unconcerned about anything but throttle and brakes. If the performance and reliability are there, it's pretty much a no-brainer. Except for the die-hard traditionalist, a CVT Stella has to be a win-win.

I learned to appreciate CVTs via a strange route: Off-road carts, particularly Yamaha and EZ-Go.

[Stitch]

The shifty scooters have some inherent magic that the twist and go scooters will never have.

[Indy21]

Well thanks Ericalm for this site and all the information you provide for us (and hopefully continue to provide us).

My heart would still be set on a manual scooter but really deep down inside I'm about 20% committed to having a scooter that shifts gears and the other 80% is based on the classic look of the Stella. I really dig it and if the shifty had to go and all there was were an auto, I don't think I'd abandon the idea of Stella.


...or I'd start the hunt for an ol P200, lol.

[az_slynch]

Best wishes in your future endeavours, Mr. McCaleb. Thank you for all you've done for the scooter community. It was a pleasure to ride with you when you visited Tucson for the Appreciation Ride.

As an aside, I'm buying my first new Stella this fall. Tell 'em to save me one of the 4Ts in black.

[neotrotsky]

Honestly, I think I could take anybody without an absolute mental block into a pasture somewhere and teach them to shift a small dirt bike in about an hour, maybe less.

For almost five decades, the large majority of people who learned to ride a scooter did so on a shifty. And, let's face it, it's not like everyone on a motorcycle is endowed with amazing dexterity or special biker skills.

But the automatics are there and that's what people want. The CVT is a very well designed system and it pretty much removes the need for shifting a scooter — particularly anything under 350cc or so.

I just like it because it's fun.

Because people are lazy, demanding "I WANT IT NOW" twats who want the performance of a Porsche, the fuel economy of a Honda Metropolitan and don't want to put any effort in learning the actual skills required. Look at the near-fetish-level of obsession many have with Google developing a car that drives itself. Yeah... THAT'S just what I want: Spend 30k on a machine that demands that I'm not smart enough to drive myself.

Present company (ericalm) aside, since you obviously know how to ride all mentioned types. I just honestly bristle at those who want "retro-modern-chic" but want someone ELSE to make it easy for them, yet look *exactly* like it does in the pretty pictures. I get the same types who DEMAND such things at my job who want the full hipster-analog audio recording treatment but demand that I master an album in 8 hours or have an entire live recording set up in 2 hours. They think everything should be as easy as a one-button iPad app and demand someone ELSE to make it easy for them.

[Wolfhound]

Thank you, Eric.

[illnoise]

The demand hasn't been overwhelming. Turns out, many buyers in India and Asia don't give a rat's ass what people in the relatively tiny by comparison US market consider a "real" scooter.

Don't forget that the people hung up on vintage scooters is an even tinier segment of the already tiny US market. And a large share of people hung up on vintage scooters already thought the Stella 2T (let alone the 4T or automatics) aren't 'real scooters.')

If you've been around (sadly) as long as I have, you know that vintage "scene" scooterists were a thorn in McCaleb's side for a long time and many still badmouth him every chance they get for creating a business out of their precious hobby, even as they bought parts from him (though some spent twice as much and ordered from England or Germany to brag that they didn't patronize Scooterworks.) I don't want to say he doesn't owe us vintage guys any favors, because we built his business (and the demand for scooters), but on the other hand, especially with all the Vespa vs Scooterworks baggage, you can see that Genuine, both with the Stella and later the PGO bikes, was an attempt to establish an alternate (and more welcoming) scooter culture in the U.S. and that was Phil's real accomplishment. Sure, it was all in the name of building a business, and sure, he didn't do it singlehandedly, but he's certainly a looming figure.

In short, he knew the scene, he knew the baggage, he worked around it and established a new infrastructure and took the time to engage his customers in a way that other importers were unable to copy.

Also, as far as Eric being clairvoyant, PGO in Taiwan makes Buddies, LML in India makes Stellas, and if you follow the international scooter news/grapevine, you can pretty much see what's coming, these things are unveiled at trade shows and talked about in Europe and Asia and it's usually pretty easy to guess when they'll trickle down to the US. But having friends on the inside at Genuine helos, too, ha.

Bb.

[illnoise]

Trotsky, you're the worst elitist I've ever seen. A real elitist would never ride a Stella in the first place.

Geez, I can't believe you have hydraulic disc brakes and gas shocks and a fuel gauge and neutral light. WHAT A POSEUR!

[TVB]

Trotsky, you're the worst elitist I've ever seen.

No, he's actually pretty good at it.

[Southerner]

I just honestly bristle at those who want "retro-modern-chic" but want someone ELSE to make it easy for them, yet look *exactly* like it does in the pretty pictures. I get the same types who DEMAND such things at my job who want the full hipster-analog audio recording treatment but demand that I master an album in 8 hours or have an entire live recording set up in 2 hours. They think everything should be as easy as a one-button iPad app and demand someone ELSE to make it easy for them.

It's because they don't know what they're asking for. To relate to my business, there once was a time when all my drafting was pen on paper and a D-size (24" x 36") could take days to complete. Now with CAD and the ability to import aerial photos and whatnot, the same drawing can be reduced to hours or maybe an hour or less, if not complex. Non-technical people routinely request drawings in the morning and expect them to be done after lunch. Even worse, they know they need a drawing but all too often fail to give me enough lead time to get it together.

I don't think the comparison of these things to scooters is apt, however. I think the original scooters were the best things that could be designed with the available technology and all the improvements that have been invented since, from disk brakes to cvt, ABS, etc. WOULD have been, and mostly HAVE been incorporated. These improvements are the natural evolution in design resulting in a better, safer product. What HAS been lost(Vespa, are you listening?) is the focus on producing an inexpensive means of transportation.

As to the snoots who belabored Mr. McCaleb, they just need to stick with their beloved vintage scoots with all their faults and charm and focus on how to keep these aged devices running and be glad he attracted a new generation of scooterists into the fold without driving up the prices for unreplaceable discontinued scooters.

For me, the question of a CVT Stella is one of practicality. CVTs are proven, reliable technology and the cable linkage of the shifty is just something else I would have to adjust and repair more than I'd like.

It's not a question of the CVT Stella replacing the shifty; it's rather that adding CVT may well extend the life of this all-metal design. There are countless Vintage Vespa lookalikes. None of them has manual shift. The market has spoken.

[ravenlore]

...What HAS been lost(Vespa, are you listening?) is the focus on producing an inexpensive means of transportation.

Soooo much THIS.

[JohnKiniston]

with all the Vespa vs Scooterworks baggage, you can see that Genuine, both with the Stella and later the PGO bikes, was an attempt to establish an alternate (and more welcoming) scooter culture in the U.S. and that was Phil's real accomplishment. Sure, it was all in the name of building a business, and sure, he didn't do it singlehandedly, but he's certainly a looming figure.

In short, he knew the scene, he knew the baggage, he worked around it and established a new infrastructure and took the time to engage his customers in a way that other importers were unable to copy.

I have to give my Thanks to Phil for this, To me it feels like he succeeded.

I've only been riding since 2008 but when I got into scooters my local Genuine/Kymco(And Sym at the time) dealer had a flier for the local riding club that I now help run. I've made great friends and have traveled to many places I wouldn't have gone without them and most of it has been on the Stella's I've owned.

You meet the nicest people on a Genuine

[Wolfhound]

Neotrotski. please keep one thing in mind concerning manual vs auto transmissions: Some of us have physical problems that make the auto our
best way to ride. In my case I had a new Stella 4T and really liked it.
Sadly my arthritic left wrist did not. It became obvious that the Stella was
not for me when my wrist hurt all the time I was riding it.Traded it back to
Vespa Marietta for a 2012 new Buddy 170i and now I can ride. Same applies
to shifting a motorcycle. Neuropathy in my lower legs and ankles makes
using a foot shift impossible. Should I quit riding because of these problems?
I don't think so. The nice thing about scoots is that just about any body,
including 77 year old coots like me, can stay active and riding them. Being
lazy has nothing to do with it, at least not in my case, you young whippersnapper you!!!!

[chloefpuff]

^Scoot on, Wolfhound! I hope I'm still riding in 20+ years.

[Indy21]

I just honestly bristle at those who want "retro-modern-chic" but want someone ELSE to make it easy for them, yet look *exactly* like it does in the pretty pictures. I get the same types who DEMAND such things at my job who want the full hipster-analog audio recording treatment but demand that I master an album in 8 hours or have an entire live recording set up in 2 hours. They think everything should be as easy as a one-button iPad app and demand someone ELSE to make it easy for them.

It's because they don't know what they're asking for. To relate to my business, there once was a time when all my drafting was pen on paper and a D-size (24" x 36") could take days to complete. Now with CAD and the ability to import aerial photos and whatnot, the same drawing can be reduced to hours or maybe an hour or less, if not complex. Non-technical people routinely request drawings in the morning and expect them to be done after lunch. Even worse, they know they need a drawing but all too often fail to give me enough lead time to get it together.

I don't think the comparison of these things to scooters is apt, however. I think the original scooters were the best things that could be designed with the available technology and all the improvements that have been invented since, from disk brakes to cvt, ABS, etc. WOULD have been, and mostly HAVE been incorporated. These improvements are the natural evolution in design resulting in a better, safer product. What HAS been lost(Vespa, are you listening?) is the focus on producing an inexpensive means of transportation.

As to the snoots who belabored Mr. McCaleb, they just need to stick with their beloved vintage scoots with all their faults and charm and focus on how to keep these aged devices running and be glad he attracted a new generation of scooterists into the fold without driving up the prices for unreplaceable discontinued scooters.

For me, the question of a CVT Stella is one of practicality. CVTs are proven, reliable technology and the cable linkage of the shifty is just something else I would have to adjust and repair more than I'd like.

It's not a question of the CVT Stella replacing the shifty; it's rather that adding CVT may well extend the life of this all-metal design. There are countless Vintage Vespa lookalikes. None of them has manual shift. The market has spoken.

Great post!

[neotrotsky]

Trotsky, you're the worst elitist I've ever seen.

No, he's actually pretty good at it.

And once again, quick to make sure an opinion that does not match yours is spoken out against ... especially if it is said by me. Who knows? I may of struck a nerve. Probably.

All I know is that, contrary to some, I do have a right to an opinion. Am I anti-auto scooters? Hell no! Love em for what they are. But I am sick of the entitled and lazy expecting the world to change for them and to have someone else bust their ass to do it. It is why we have abomonations like a porsche "sedan", auto-tune and full auto suv "mini coopers" that are bigger than compact pickups and hondas.

Fake it if you can't have the real thing. The American way.

(And yes, Phil did a great job handling the delicate balance for enthusiasts and new riders with the buddy and the Stella, since the star/stella never pretended to be what it was: an Indian PX. For what the bike was, it was great! It was not vintage but didn't try to hide it.... much like people who want an auto star/stella want to do)

Want to call names because you don't like the opinion? Your problem. Others have written counter arguments that were well worded and had valid points (such as southerner). They didn't have to get all petty....

[TVB]

And once again, quick to make sure an opinion that does not match yours is spoken out against ... especially if it is said by me. Who knows? I may of struck a nerve. Probably.

I simply envy your freedom from self-critique.

[teacherquinn]

Sad to see such a great guy go. I've met him and communicated with him for many years and he's always been kind and open. He personally pitched in $$ when I did my Scootin' for a Cure ride. Interesting that we (the little guy) know and love someone who ran a company like Genuine.

They've been one of our biggest sponsors of Amerivespa and I don't foresee that changing. They donate big time $$ and a scooter every year. They spend hours in their vendor booth, talking to the public.

The two-tone 170 that some of us saw is a mock up of a potential color scheme.

[Southerner]

Neo, I am in sympathy with your position, but there will always be poseurs and such. And we can always spot them.

All I can advise is to ignore them. There are plenty of great people in scootering.

And McCaleb is obviously one of them.

[Wolfhound]

What Southerner said.

[illnoise]

I may of struck a nerve.

Well, that's never happened before!

The sad part is, I very largely share your opinion of 'retro' modern scooters. I just have a shred of tact and realize that the international scooter industry and scoooterist scene does not revolve around my personal taste. You're welcome to your opinions, you're welcome to share them, you're NOT welcome to PERPETUALLY demean everyone else's opinions every time you open your mouth, which you've been warned about WAY too many times. You are unpleasant, and you seem to revel in getting people angry.

We're not that different, you and I, but one large difference is that I'm a moderator and you're on thin ice so far as I'm concerned. Stop starting fights and then complaining about being oppressed, you do it every other thread and no one is impressed. Final warning.

Harrumph.
Bb.

[charlie55]

Moving right along.....

Had it not been for that '06 Blur sitting in the "Why Red Is Red" Scooter Emporium on Staten Island, I would had to have spent the last 5 years actually speaking to my wife. Thank you Phil!

How's about you head out here for the next hurricane? We can set up a coupla beach chairs at Point Pleasant, pop open a coupla cold ones, and watch as North Carolina drifts by on it's way to join the European Union.

[Rob]

Honestly, I think I could take anybody without an absolute mental block into a pasture somewhere and teach them to shift a small dirt bike in about an hour, maybe less.

Agreed, most if not all, can learn to shift in a relatively short period of time. My wife can drive both manual trannies in a cage and manual/shifty MCs (she passed the MSF twice, once on a scoot, once on a 250 MC), however she prefers not to.

For almost five decades, the large majority of people who learned to ride a scooter did so on a shifty. And, let's face it, it's not like everyone on a motorcycle is endowed with amazing dexterity or special biker skills.

But the automatics are there and that's what people want. The CVT is a very well designed system and it pretty much removes the need for shifting a scooter — particularly anything under 350cc or so.

I just like it because it's fun.

And years ago, if you wanted to drive a cage, it was going to be a manual transmission. Not many of those around these days.

Because people are lazy, demanding "I WANT IT NOW" twats who want the performance of a Porsche, the fuel economy of a Honda Metropolitan and don't want to put any effort in learning the actual skills required.
I just honestly bristle at those who want "retro-modern-chic" but want someone ELSE to make it easy for them, yet look *exactly* like it does in the pretty pictures.

Ah, I didn't realize there was a rite of passage before you could desire evolutionary amenities in your ride. I'll inform my wife that she better start at the bottom and work her way up before she can dream about an auto Stella.

Come to think about it, I never had a Model T with a crank start and hard rubber tires. Guess I better dump the SUV and start all over.

Rob

[TVB]

And years ago, if you wanted to drive a cage, it was going to be a manual transmission. Not many of those around these days.

Manual transmission cars aren't that uncommon. It's the only kind I've ever owned, because they were the ones that got the best gas mileage. Granted, it's been about 10 years since I looked at new cars, but I recall all the popular smaller cars (e.g. Honda Civic, Ford Escort, Toyota Corolla, VW Jetta) being available with manual transmission. I'm sure that'll change as hybrids (nearly all automatic) and electrics (gearless, I presume) become more popular, but the 5-speed standard transmission is far from a niche item.

[Southerner]

Hybrids are here to stay, thanks to Toyota, but electrics might as well be the famous flying car until the battery issue is solved. Until then, they're just expensive, short range toys. The general rule for range of electrics, MC or car, is to take the manufacturer's claim and cut it in half.

[Rob]

And years ago, if you wanted to drive a cage, it was going to be a manual transmission. Not many of those around these days.

Manual transmission cars aren't that uncommon. It's the only kind I've ever owned, because they were the ones that got the best gas mileage. Granted, it's been about 10 years since I looked at new cars, but I recall all the popular smaller cars (e.g. Honda Civic, Ford Escort, Toyota Corolla, VW Jetta) being available with manual transmission. I'm sure that'll change as hybrids (nearly all automatic) and electrics (gearless, I presume) become more popular, but the 5-speed standard transmission is far from a niche item.

Yeah, I know they're still out there ... and this is only a WAG, but I'd have to believe they are less than 5% of all new car sales at this point. Maybe even lower. I'm also guessing that less than 10% of the cars on the road are manuals. A dying breed for sure.

Rob

[LunaP]

Neotrotski. please keep one thing in mind concerning manual vs auto transmissions: Some of us have physical problems that make the auto our best way to ride.

+1

I can't speak for everybody, but this is the case with me. I was never taught, or had the opportunity to BE taught (as in, it's not as if somebody offered and I passed it up, it just never came up) to drive a manual car when I was growing up. That's not my fault or anybody else's, it's just the way stuff happened. I wouldn't let it stop me from buying a car I wanted... and that's what I told myself when I got into scooters. But I wanted a Buddy, so it didn't matter anyway. Do I like Vespas? Yes. Do I prefer a vintage look? Yes... I don't like the looks of say, a Fly or a Roughhouse.

Again through circumstances not in my control, I am now in a position where I cannot physically operate a left-foot shift lever on a motorcycle. Because I have to rely on my right leg, since that's not the ankle that could very easily snap or give out and the stronger leg, I am also not comfortable with a bike that has a floorboard brake pedal, since most, if not all of them, are on the right. I will never own a shifty anything... so if suddenly I decided I wanted a Stella, it would have to be a twisty.

But even if that were not the case, I don't feel like I should be judged so harshly for preferring automatics, or wanting a vintage body with a different way to shift. The way I look at it, that's like judging me because I want the same ice cream others do... just in a cup instead of a cone. Maybe somebody else can't understand why I don't want a waffle cone, everybody likes waffle cones! Well, I don't like drips and it's hot out. So what. Deal with it. Would I like to learn how to shift a manual car? Yes. I would like to do that because in a situation where, say, I might need to drive a drunk friend home or something, I might need to know that. Would I like to learn how to shift a bike? Yes, it'd be nice. But I don't feel like I should HAVE to know how in order to appreciate that bike style or ride it. It's an aesthetic. I don't really think it's all about this want it now, gimme gimme, instant gratification thing thing that's been brought up.


On the actual subject of this thread, which was Phil's departure... I liked Phil as a person, he's a good guy with a good heart and cares about the people out there riding Genuine bikes. I hope he'll still be around on the forums listening in. I also hope that he is still in good health and taking care of himself... I'd be sad to hear otherwise. As for Genuine, Phil was pretty unique as far as head haunchos go, but I hear fairly good things about this other woman, so yay

[Wolfhound]

When I was a kid back in the dark ages we had a neighbor in the WNC mountains that had a T Model Ford flat bed truck. He would haul his produce to the Farmers Market on it. It had a planetary clutch and ran slow but sure.
As previously stated and as LunaP says, some of us have physical needs that
prevent us fromk using our left feet. Csan i drive a manual shift? Of course and have driven every thing from 3 speed to 6 speed trannies.
Now back to the original subject:Phil McCaleb is definately going to be missed
and here's hoping that the company he founded goes on to greater things in the future.

[Syd]

I wonder, do you think he will start another scooter company, after his probable non-compete clause expires? Or do you think he will rest on his well-deserved laurels? Whichever he chooses, I wish Phil the best.

[gar1013]

It is why we have abomonations like a porsche "sedan", auto-tune and full auto suv "mini coopers" that are bigger than compact pickups and hondas.

Fake it if you can't have the real thing. The American way.

A couple of incorrect items here:


1) Porsche having a sedan isn't an abomination, especially if you understand the history of the company. The 911 was originally designed as a proper 4 seater car, not intended to replace the 356. They decided not to go that route because they would end up competing against Daimler-Benz. As a result, they dropped the roofline a bit, made it a 2+2, but also made certain that you could carry golf clubs in the car. Put another way, a sedan is something that Porsche would have had LONG ago if they weren't worried about getting squashed by a bigger company.

2) Why are you complaining about Mini Coopers and then calling it the American Way? Mini Coopers are built in England by a German company....the Mini Countryman is built by Magna Steyr in Austria, however. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magna_Steyr

[LunaP]

I wonder, do you think he will start another scooter company, after his probable non-compete clause expires? Or do you think he will rest on his well-deserved laurels? Whichever he chooses, I wish Phil the best.

Good question. I guess it depends on what strikes his fancy and what he wants to work on. He's certainly good with customer relations. If he did anything else, I'm sure it would have my attention.

[ericalm]

I LOVE it when people complain about some company making something they don't want or like. It's the most hilarious thing in the world, to me, to see someone getting all worked up and in a huff over something that has absolutely no affect on their life or wellbeing whatsoever. "Someone makes a [car/cell phone/computer/scooter/hamburger/whatever] that I don't like and that gets my goat! HOW COULD THEY?!?"

BIG BONUS POINTS if they get doubly worked up over someone else liking or preferring that brand or model. Yes, everyone who buys one is clearly inferior to you and likely a complete moron.

SUPER DOUBLE BONUS POINTS if they attribute people liking things they don't to the failures of contemporary society.

It's the equivalent of bitching because someone likes tomato soup while you think chicken noodle is (obviously) the best. "It's got protein — chicken — and, for chrissakes, NOODLES. WTF is wrong with the world? All that has is tomatoes! Someone just dumped a bunch in a blender, heated it and called it soup. I COULD DO THAT. People only like tomato soup because they're lazy and entitled and the world is clearly going to hell in a handbasket!"

It must be a sign of the affluent and carefree life someone must enjoy if they have the time and energy to have such strongly held opinions about products they have no intention of ever owning and which in no way hamper their existence. Otherwise, it seems to indicate a rather joyless curmudgeon with narcissistic and paranoid tendencies.

Now…

Let's please keep this thread on topic and stop the bickering. It's disrespectful. There are plenty of other threads to litter with this kind of nonsense.

[CapnK]

Well, tomato soup is Red...

[still shifting]

OK; so... Maybe we will start a thread about the Proper Way to make tomato soup.? And Yes, Phil is, was, and I hope will be a shining lite in the scootering world. Thank You Sir, and the best in your new endeavors. R

[Wolfhound]

What Eric said!!!

[peabody99]

Yes, here to being back on topic. I hope Phil is having a nice day, sending good wishes

[easy]

Good luck Phil hope your stepping down to kick back on a beach or whatever it is you do to relax and nothing to do with bad health. I wish you a long happy life thaxs for bringing the Buddy to the US.

[theflash784]

Good luck Phil! I hope you have more time off to do some scooter riding!

[pink09]

*I know this is an old post, (and believe me- I am NOT trying to start any trouble/or rumors/etc..), I just thought that people might want to know some new info that's come to light recently. I think Phil deserves that. (I found it recently when researching).

Anyways, according to this link, (below, from July 2014), Phil didn't quite leave on his own accord. He alleges that he was forced out by all the other board members at Scooterworks and is filing a lawsuit against them in response.

http://cookcountyrecord.com/top-stories ... om-company

Once again, this is just one source, I don't know the whole story. I hope Genuine continues in the spirit of Phil, and continues for a long, long time. They make great bikes. I really really hope they don't change, (much) .

[charlie55]

Been discussed here:

topic27667.html

[pink09]

Oh thanks Charlie. I didn't see that.