Genuine rumors - auto stella and a 200cc scoot for 2014

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Genuine rumors - auto stella and a 200cc scoot for 2014

Post by dtcrouch »

the stella is going to be a 125
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Post by Indy21 »

I'm atleast a year away from even looking at buying a scooter although I love researching and admittedly obsessing over things like this. (I dream of Stella)

What I hope will happen, is by the time I'm ready to seriously consider throwing my pennies towards something that there may be even more options and upgrades to choose from.

I'd look at an Auto 125 if it were available, and the first sign of a 200 coming to the states I'd be puting a down payment on long before it arrived!

What I DO NOT want to see in a year or so time is an auto Stella come in and "replace" the current 4t 150. Or should I say, I don't want the auto to completely take over and no more shifties. That's one of the draws for me to a Stella, I actually LIKE to shift gears! Been driving manual vehicles most of my life and I like that connection it gives you to the ride.

OTOH, from a maintenance standpoint, I've read several post here and there that shift cables on Stella's can snap, loosen up, need constant adjustment, etc...now that fact may have me reconsider and look at the auto again if some of those problems were resolved and not designed the same way.

So if the auto makes it here anytime soon, I hope that I have a choice between the current 150 we have now and the auto and not JUST the auto. Throw a 200 in the mix and theres no question were my money will be spent, auto or manual.

I see no reason why the 200 wouldn't EVER come here but by the way some of the long timers here and other forum chatter discuss, don't get your hopes up. Guess it really is determined how it would be marketed towards the general public since the current Stella's aren't as prominent everywhere as opposed to all the Chinese "cheaper and more affordable" scoots you see on the road today or even the better quality twist n go models it would have to compete with. Comes down to what the people really want, not what a small group on a few forums/shop mechanics dream of. Stella's aren't necessarily FLYING off the showroom floor now are they? Maybe an auto for a few years would kick start the classic all over again, then introduce the a higher end machine. Who knows?!

So yeah, I'll take a Stella 4t 200cc shifty now please. :)
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Post by Dooglas »

If we do get an auto Stella in the US, why do you believe it would be a 125? Because LML sells the 125 Star as an auto in Europe? Remember that Piaggio also sold the PX125 in Europe as a concession to the licensing rules in some European countries.
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Post by dtcrouch »

the 200cc will be twist and go to take up the slack between the 170 and blur 220 . and yes the auto stella will be the lml star rebadged also the eco buddy 50
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Post by ericalm »

Indy21 wrote:I see no reason why the 200 wouldn't EVER come here but by the way some of the long timers here and other forum chatter discuss, don't get your hopes up. Guess it really is determined how it would be marketed towards the general public since the current Stella's aren't as prominent everywhere as opposed to all the Chinese "cheaper and more affordable" scoots you see on the road today or even the better quality twist n go models it would have to compete with. Comes down to what the people really want, not what a small group on a few forums/shop mechanics dream of. Stella's aren't necessarily FLYING off the showroom floor now are they? Maybe an auto for a few years would kick start the classic all over again, then introduce the a higher end machine. Who knows?!
There are many reasons that the 200 Stella won't come to the US. It costs A LOT to bring a new scooter into the country and get it certified for sale.

The price of a 200CC would be higher than the 150, certainly over $4K. At that price it's going to have to compete more directly with other models and makes, namely Vespa. Now, I love my Stella but the quality — particularly fit and finish — isn't comparable to the modern Vespas.

But most importantly, demand for such a thing is actually quite small and shrinking. Coming out with a more expensive version won't help that. Scooter people tend to have a very distorted view of this, since so many of us want them. But we've had our chance to get them and even if 60% of those who say they want one bought it, that wouldn't be enough. The biggest potential market for scooters remains first time buyers. They very much do not want to shift. Marketing can't change that.

Those buyers also, to a large degree, don't care about or understand specs. They want something vaguely-classic/retro in appearance, street legal and with decent MPGs. If a shifty 125cc Stella is out and is cheaper, anyone inclined to buy a shifty Stella would probably still do so. They want the style. No one gets one for the performance or freeway riding.
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Post by Stitch »

It won't be very long till there are a plethora of 200cc kits for the 4t Stella. Why import a whole new scooter, when you can just let the aftermarket take care of the 10% of Stella 4t owners that are actually willing to drop the $ for a slightly bigger motor.
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Post by Indy21 »

dtcrouch wrote:the 200cc will be twist and go to take up the slack between the 170 and blur 220 . and yes the auto stella will be the lml star rebadged also the eco buddy 50
Where are you getting your information or is this pure speculation? Are we to MAKE rumors in this thread or talk about rumors heard elsewhere?

Just curious, people tend to come across so sure of themselves on the internet like its gospel or something.

I enjoy the speculating game as much as the next guy or gal but I'll take fact for what it is, coming direct from the source when it's announced. And yes, I do like to daydream quite a bit. =)
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Post by Indy21 »

ericalm wrote:
Indy21 wrote:I see no reason why the 200 wouldn't EVER come here but by the way some of the long timers here and other forum chatter discuss, don't get your hopes up. Guess it really is determined how it would be marketed towards the general public since the current Stella's aren't as prominent everywhere as opposed to all the Chinese "cheaper and more affordable" scoots you see on the road today or even the better quality twist n go models it would have to compete with. Comes down to what the people really want, not what a small group on a few forums/shop mechanics dream of. Stella's aren't necessarily FLYING off the showroom floor now are they? Maybe an auto for a few years would kick start the classic all over again, then introduce the a higher end machine. Who knows?!
There are many reasons that the 200 Stella won't come to the US. It costs A LOT to bring a new scooter into the country and get it certified for sale.

The price of a 200CC would be higher than the 150, certainly over $4K. At that price it's going to have to compete more directly with other models and makes, namely Vespa. Now, I love my Stella but the quality — particularly fit and finish — isn't comparable to the modern Vespas.

But most importantly, demand for such a thing is actually quite small and shrinking. Coming out with a more expensive version won't help that. Scooter people tend to have a very distorted view of this, since so many of us want them. But we've had our chance to get them and even if 60% of those who say they want one bought it, that wouldn't be enough. The biggest potential market for scooters remains first time buyers. They very much do not want to shift. Marketing can't change that.

Those buyers also, to a large degree, don't care about or understand specs. They want something vaguely-classic/retro in appearance, street legal and with decent MPGs. If a shifty 125cc Stella is out and is cheaper, anyone inclined to buy a shifty Stella would probably still do so. They want the style. No one gets one for the performance or freeway riding.
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Post by pugbuddy »

I would hope for at least a 250cc. 200cc is a bit "light" for a touring scoot; it's really a tweener. I'm not sure how it would be much of an improvement over the current 170cc.
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Post by ericalm »

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Post by az_slynch »

ericalm wrote:Image
Best reply out there! :rofl:

The auto Stella cannot become a 250cc as-designed. There aren't any modern, mass-produced 250cc aircooled scooter engines that can slot into the chassis and the installed engine is GY6 derived, which has only been seen in highly-modified derivatives (e.g., Howardr's Iron Buddy) in displacements barely exceeding 180cc. In short, there would have to be a new engine design, a new CARB approval...in other words, it'd be the same situation for those who keep wishing for the 200cc 4T shifty, only fractionally less likely. Just get a GTS already.

That said, I'd love to try slotting a CN250 motor into one of the duocoque 4T chassis and stashing a radiator in the the chassis near the motor mount, just to try my hand at unicorn-building. I'd still have a foot brake, though. The motor case was designed for it.
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Post by BuddyRaton »

Plus is the average new, or experienced scooter buyer really going to want 250 cc 4T in that frame with 10" wheels?

As someone that is building what will hopefully be a stupid fast touring vintage (shooting for 22-25 bhp) I can't see the praticality of it. The cost would be very high. It's not just stuffing in more ccs..it's also modifying...everything. High speed tires, suspension, brakes, etc. These things don't come cheap (I know!) I just don't see where there would be much demand at all.

In addition to all the other factors mentioned above ther is another one to consider. Storage. For someone buying their first TNG scooter storage may play a big part and the Stella is severly lacking.

I think anyone that would consider an auto Stella for a weekend end runabout toy or as a daily commuter would also be looking at modern Vespas, Buddys, Kymco etc etc.
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Post by ravenlore »

Stitch wrote:It won't be very long till there are a plethora of 200cc kits for the 4t Stella. Why import a whole new scooter, when you can just let the aftermarket take care of the 10% of Stella 4t owners that are actually willing to drop the $ for a slightly bigger motor.
Excellent point, and I hope you're right. I'd buy a 150cc twisty Stella in a heartbeat if I knew I had the option to throw a kit on that bleep if i wished.

(Oh, who am I kidding. Everyone knows I'm going to end up buying a twisty Stella kit or no)
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Post by Indy21 »

Do you all think that the auto will be a make or break point for the Stella altogether?

If they spend all this time and money bringing the thing over to add to the lineup and then they don't sell as well as expected then they might get rid of the model altogether. OTOH, I can see it being a hit which could therefore have us seeing even higher end models to follow in the years soon after. (Auto 200's perhaps?)

I dunno, just something I was thinking about this morning.
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Post by illnoise »

The US market isn't making or breaking anything. In LML's case, the US market is probably more important than it is to a lot of other manufacturers, and they're not huge in their own domestic market, but they're working harder on the domestic market lately (which probably is the top reason they're working on an automatic, surely it's not us) and they sell tons of bikes in africa, europe, the middle east, etc. Losing the US market would be kinda bad news for them, but it wouldn't be the end of LML.
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Post by dtcrouch »

the info is pretty solid
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Post by Syd »

After the initial rush, nobody will buy a metal bodied, 125 CVT scoot. It'll be a dog. My bosses' Metropolitan would outrun it.
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Post by JohnKiniston »

Stitch wrote:It won't be very long till there are a plethora of 200cc kits for the 4t Stella. Why import a whole new scooter, when you can just let the aftermarket take care of the 10% of Stella 4t owners that are actually willing to drop the $ for a slightly bigger motor.
I really don't feel like this is going to happen sadly.

There wasn't a Bolt-On 200cc kit for a P125/P150 made that I know of. Like the P200's the Star 200's cases are different so we can't just buy a 200 Jug and bolt it on either :(

If your in a market that can buy the Star 125/150 Your probably in a market where you can buy the Star 200.

Hopefully the bikes are popular enough that other manufacturers than Polini jump in and give us more cylinders to play with than the existing 161 kit.

A big Valve / Multi Valve head is also on my wish list :)
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Post by Stitch »

JohnKiniston wrote:
Stitch wrote:It won't be very long till there are a plethora of 200cc kits for the 4t Stella. Why import a whole new scooter, when you can just let the aftermarket take care of the 10% of Stella 4t owners that are actually willing to drop the $ for a slightly bigger motor.
I really don't feel like this is going to happen sadly.

There wasn't a Bolt-On 200cc kit for a P125/P150 made that I know of. Like the P200's the Star 200's cases are different so we can't just buy a 200 Jug and bolt it on either :(

If your in a market that can buy the Star 125/150 Your probably in a market where you can buy the Star 200.

Hopefully the bikes are popular enough that other manufacturers than Polini jump in and give us more cylinders to play with than the existing 161 kit.

A big Valve / Multi Valve head is also on my wish list :)
Lml already has a 200 cc Stella type motor. Sooner or later someone will start dragging the good bits across the ocean in boxes labeled "off road use only".
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Post by Stitch »

http://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/touch ... mendations

Someone should see if this bolts up.
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Post by JohnKiniston »

Stitch wrote: Lml already has a 200 cc Stella type motor. Sooner or later someone will start dragging the good bits across the ocean in boxes labeled "off road use only".
Now that is something I'll look forward to.
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Post by Indy21 »

illnoise wrote:The US market isn't making or breaking anything. In LML's case, the US market is probably more important than it is to a lot of other manufacturers, and they're not huge in their own domestic market, but they're working harder on the domestic market lately (which probably is the top reason they're working on an automatic, surely it's not us) and they sell tons of bikes in africa, europe, the middle east, etc. Losing the US market would be kinda bad news for them, but it wouldn't be the end of LML.
I wasn't speaking of the US market SAVING the model or anything just more specifically IN the US market. Yeah I know, US probably doesn't do nearly as well as some other more scooter centric countries as far as overall sales, was just suggesting that those that were turned off by a manual shift vintage looking scooter may perk back up if the auto shows up over here.

I'd personally like to see it sell well over here possibly sparking new, higher end models down the line. I think the fact is though, most people buying a scooter over here are going to see the Stella by accident at a dealer while looking at all the other scooters and they may sell a few just to the surprised walk-ins, especially with the auto feature, the only folks really begging and pleading for higher end models and keeping it a classic shifty are some of us here and maybe a few other online communities or 'in the know' shop owners that are devoted to more vintage looking machines. I think that's hardly enough to convince LML or genuine or whomever gets these things approved to send them in droves over here to us that might actually buy.

Where I live, I'm sure I could go to just about any cycle/scooter dealership or just ask people I know or folks that are into riding and most would either ask what a Stella is or just give me the "pssht, nah I'd rather have..." Kind of response. In the 20 or so years I've been in this town I think I've seen ONE Stella on the road and maybe a couple older Vespas that I couldn't identify exact model. And Birmingham is a fairly large city as well as it surrounding, growing outer city areas. Of course, I'm not everywhere all at once so may e there are more and I just don't spot them, but I'm quite sure we don't have 'a scene' around here.

In fact, I only know of one Genuine dealer close to town that used to be, many years ago in central downtown with a really cool shop but has since moved to the outer edge and joined up with a cycle shop that sells choppers and victories. Went and visited his store last week and he had just ordered 2 Stella's the other 20 or so bikes were buddies or kymcos, so it's not like he had a steady inflow of Stella's, I wouldn't be surprised to see those 4t's still sitting there a month from now, but who knows and I wish him well. He seemed to know his stuff to, had several old Vespas restored in the back and claimed to have a garage full at the house (which I'd love to go check out some time), he to is wishing they would bring the 200 over, and no, I didn't have to explain to him that they were in existence, he knows what's out there. Wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't registered here amongst us, guy wasn't your average BS salesman but very helpful and informative.

Anyways, I wish Genuine well and I hope they continue to roll in the new stuff, auto's, more engine options, more models altogether, cause that can only mean good things for the future right? And hope we don't see the Stella go anywhere anytime soon, especially before I can snag one, hehe.
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Post by dtcrouch »

i would really like to a stella 200 also the 150 is great but why not go bigger i would say if genuine pulls the trigger the 150 will go bye bye
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Post by Indy21 »

Indy21 wrote:Where I live, I'm sure I could go to just about any cycle/scooter dealership or just ask people I know or folks that are into riding and most would either ask what a Stella is or just give me the "pssht, nah I'd rather have..." Kind of response. In the 20 or so years I've been in this town I think I've seen ONE Stella on the road and maybe a couple older Vespas that I couldn't identify exact model. And Birmingham is a fairly large city as well as it surrounding, growing outer city areas. Of course, I'm not everywhere all at once so may e there are more and I just don't spot them, but I'm quite sure we don't have 'a scene' around here.
And if I may add and quote myself...

That's why I like the Stella, it's different, you don't see them everywhere and I've never been partial to the more 'plasticky' looking scooters. They all just look really cheap to me and have no appeal, even if its a $6000 new Vespa, I just don't like that look, I'd rather have a Ruckus!

I've always been drawn to older style bikes and scooters, when I look at bikes in a shop I go straight to the Bonnevilles or old BMW's, I don't care one bit for the 50 Japanese cruiser style bikes they have on the floor and I am really turned off by these sports bikes that every 19 year old newbie gawks over.

It's that look and class that an older machine has, classic looking bikes and scooters have more soul. I've nearly run off the road rubber necking an old Vespa cruising through town or my ONE Stella spotting sometime ago, lol. I may pass 40 shadows, vstars, new decked out Harley's and you name it sports bikes a day and really don't pay them a passing glance, unless their riding like idiots, then I just get the hell out of the way and pray they don't scare some family into a ditch down the road.

If all there were was new bikes out there with no old classic styling I think I'd lose some interest in them altogether really, except for the fact that I enjoy to ride for 'the ride', if I had no choice then I'd give in eventually.

Sorry for all the ranting, leaving for vacation in the morning and have nothing better to do tonight but bug you guys/gals, lol.
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Post by Indy21 »

dtcrouch wrote:i would really like to a stella 200 also the 150 is great but why not go bigger i would say if genuine pulls the trigger the 150 will go bye bye
I agree, maybe there would just be a choice between either an auto or manual 200 by then. Or maybe just an auto if they decided to nix the manual altogether. Guess that would depend on how successful the auto is in the years to come.

And you guys would know this better than me but would an auto be slower top end wise than a shifty? Because that would be a real downer in my eyes, 55-60 is kind of a sweet spot for me, I don't care for interstate travel but I want to get up and go when I feel I need to or push it a little on the backroads.
Last edited by Indy21 on Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by dtcrouch »

we are in a college town ive seen 7 so far but still like you say i see a million zumas, harleys, metros, metric sport bikes nothing beats that classic look even the buddies have the nice retro look but of course they are all plastic
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Post by Dooglas »

dtcrouch wrote:the info is pretty solid
What info is pretty solid? Your announcement at the start of this thread that there will be a new Stella 125 auto in the US. Your later post that there will be a 200 auto? Or......?
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Post by mikeinvespa »

Polini released a new Cylinder/piston(221cc), Exhaust, Carb (22mm Mikuni), and Longer primary gear for the Stella 200cc. Needless to say I want one more than ever! Bring the 200cc 4t in the US.

http://www.lambretta-teile.de/Cylinder- ... 0-4-stroke
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Post by Rusty Shackleford »

Which 200? The LML Star 200? As in, the 200 would be a shifter and the 125 would be CVT?

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Post by Alexbv200 »

Stella 125cc Auto coming..
200cc scooter is not... it will be a smaller cc bike.
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Post by ravenlore »

Alexbv200 wrote:Stella 125cc Auto coming..
200cc scooter is not... it will be a smaller cc bike.
125 not 150?

(i'll throw a kit on it.)
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Post by Alexbv200 »

ravenlore wrote:
Alexbv200 wrote:Stella 125cc Auto coming..
200cc scooter is not... it will be a smaller cc bike.
125 not 150?

(i'll throw a kit on it.)
Correct.
They can't make a 150 Auto work.
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Post by ravenlore »

Alexbv200 wrote:
ravenlore wrote:
Alexbv200 wrote:Stella 125cc Auto coming..
200cc scooter is not... it will be a smaller cc bike.
125 not 150?

(i'll throw a kit on it.)
Correct.
They can't make a 150 Auto work.

Fair enough.
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Post by lovemysan »

Syd wrote:After the initial rush, nobody will buy a metal bodied, 125 CVT scoot. It'll be a dog. My bosses' Metropolitan would outrun it.
There is a youtube video of a p125 vs lml 125 auto. The lml125 wins. I don't think it's a dog. But it does weigh 265lbs and has no trunk. I personally love the plastic scooter/gy6. I really enjoy the plethora of cheap parts. I've flirted with shifty ownership but the appeal is diminishing the more work I do to the buddy. I raced a 213cc rally and he didn't catch me till the top of third and I'm 75lbs heavier.
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Post by Dooglas »

Alexbv200 wrote:
ravenlore wrote:
Alexbv200 wrote:Stella 125cc Auto coming..
200cc scooter is not... it will be a smaller cc bike.
125 not 150?
Correct. They can't make a 150 Auto work.
Hmmm, somewhat faint praise. Sounds like it will be slower than a 125 Buddy and cost $1,000-1,500 more. You'd have to really love that Stella body. How many do you suppose Genuine would sell?
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Post by ravenlore »

Dooglas wrote:
Alexbv200 wrote:
ravenlore wrote:125 not 150?
Correct. They can't make a 150 Auto work.
Hmmm, somewhat faint praise. Sounds like it will be slower than a 125 Buddy and cost $1,000-1,500 more. You'd have to really love that Stella body. How many do you suppose Genuine would sell?

I've been thinking about this a great deal since Alex's post that a 150 won't work. IF that also means that a BBK is not an option...that may be a deal-breaker for me. My intention absolutely was that the Stella would be the Vespa's little sister, so 150 would have been fine. but 125 might not be enough to haul my large frame around and keep up with city traffic.

If it turns out a BBK to the 160-170 range would be an option, then we are back to no-brainer purchase for me.
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Post by RoaringTodd »

Alexbv200 wrote:Stella 125cc Auto coming..
200cc scooter is not... it will be a smaller cc bike.
That's quite a let down.
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Post by misterbrackets »

Is a 150cc manual trans. option going to be discontinued?
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Post by Drum Pro »

misterbrackets wrote:Is a 150cc manual trans. option going to be discontinued?
Hope not...
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Syd
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Post by Syd »

Want!Want!Wantwantwanwanwaw aww...

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Post by Alexbv200 »

misterbrackets wrote:Is a 150cc manual trans. option going to be discontinued?
probably not, however if the Auto sales completely take over the manual sales, they might re think it over.
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Post by Drum Pro »

I thought their plan was to bring the 200cc over at some point....
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Post by BeefSupreme »

Just to add fuel to the fire, being as all of our confidential informants are 100% accurate, i've heard that the auto (125? 150?) AND the 200 shifty, AND some "other surprises" (roughhouse 125/redesign?) are all coming down the pipeline this Fall.

Maybe this is Genuine leaking false information to different dealers in attempts to confuse and mask their true intentions. SMOKE SCREEN
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Post by Dooglas »

BeefSupreme wrote: I've heard that the auto (125? 150?) AND the 200 shifty, AND some "other surprises" (roughhouse 125/redesign?) are all coming down the pipeline this Fall.
Darned if I know what is true and what is not. For all that, the 125 Roughhouse makes the most sense to me as it might actually sell a bunch of scooters. The Stella is already the only new shifty scooter in the US, and (even more important) with the 4T it is the only new shifty scooter in California. Hard for me to see how converting it from the only classic design shifty to a second rate CVT is really going to help sales. Genuine Scooters has carved it's niche by making shrewd marketing decisions. Hopefully without Phil it has not lost that ability.
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Post by BeefSupreme »

Who knows, i'd really like to see PGO's Jbubu stateside, although in Genuine's current line up another small frame road scooter would almost surely be a successor to the Buddy, not be offered along side it being as they're so similar. But they do have tons of accessories, front and rear disc brakes, dual rear suspension, fuel door on the leg shield, gas tank under your feet, LED everything and it still has a cup holder! Plus this video is pretty rad. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6qEO9gdPs0
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Post by gburbank »

Actually, there is a 200 4t in this country, right now, making it's way across the country. It's being ridden by the site moderator for the LML club of Great Britain from New York to LA raising money for a Sighthound Rescue organization. Genuine is aware of this. If they had any real intention of bringing the 200 shifty 4t here, you would be reading daily updates of his progress on their website by now. It's a ready made marketing opportunity that they are politely ignoring, which should squash any rumors you may have heard about this particular jar of rainbow unicorn farts. But if you are curious, you can follow his progress here:
https://mattipper.wordpress.com/2015/05 ... nd-hounds/
and his route map here:
https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/1/edit? ... VJobpXcXMY
stella 4t 200 cc engine, tasso pipe and timing slider, ram-air filter and sidecar
stella auto, bone stock
stella 4t 200cc with readspeed CDI, unmodified stock engine
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Post by avescoots1134 »

Holy thread resurrection batman!

Besides the whole US emissions thing, the market for an Indian shifty scoot in the US is pretty much gone. Much less an even more expensive 200cc version.

*Edit- we have a 2013 4T shifty that has been sitting since then. Right now it's a grand discounted with free prep and freight.. nobody wants it. Everyone who wanted a Stella has one.
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Post by gburbank »

That's a shame to hear you still have one sitting there unloved and unridden. Having just imported two 200 engines, an auto for the wife, and another (used) 4t for a project, I'm cashed out. Someone is missing a great deal. The long and the short of it is importing the engine (with shipping) runs about $1,800, substantially less than a 2t p200 engine from American Scooter Center. Those of us crazy, stubborn, or stupid enough to want one can build one. When I'm done with mine, I'll spend a day running laps around the Genuine offices in chicago with my tounge out.
BTW you're not the only shop sitting on new 4t shifties. A couple here in Lake Geneva, and at least 6 show up on internet searches.
stella 4t 200 cc engine, tasso pipe and timing slider, ram-air filter and sidecar
stella auto, bone stock
stella 4t 200cc with readspeed CDI, unmodified stock engine
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Post by Robbie »

Quite true regarding the bucketloads of free advertising for Genuine.....all there for the taking.

The folks running Genuine now really don't understand marketing and how to create excitement in potental owners......

Another opportunity lost.

Btw, I'll be trying to meet up with Matt (the fellow doing the coast to coast) either tomorrow (Tuesday) at Scooterworks or Wednesday morning.

He has developed a oil leak of some sort and wants a full go over for the next looooooonnnnng haul Westbound.

Rob
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Cheap Stella in New Orleand

Post by Clydeo »

Wow! $1000 off and free set-up? That sounds like quite a deal!
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