Tire Sizing

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Fri Sep 06, 2013 6:12 pm

I got my scoot back with its new S1s on board. When I picked up the scoot, the service mgr apologized for the extra day's delay, saying that the tires were two different sizes. They put a 3.5 x 10 up front and a 100/90 x 10 in back. He said, as mentioned here, that the wider rear tire would help the wear and handling. But I neglected to ask if the stock tires were of two different sizes as well. My memory sorta remembers seeing 3.5 at one point, but also maybe 100/90.

I've read anecdotes against using different front/rear tires, but some folks say it's more about brand and tread pattern mismatch. I could also understand if the tires were of _very_ different sizes. I like the way the scoot is handling now; I'm not feeling any problems.

Does anyone else with a 2009 still have stock rubber, and are they the same size or different? Now I'm curious (and just a wee bit paranoid).

Tocsik · Post by **Tocsik** » Fri Sep 06, 2013 6:43 pm

My stock '08 150 had 100/90's.
I now run 130/70 in back and 100/90 in front and handling is perfect.

There are a few bikes that run different size tires stock; even different diameter wheels.

lovemysan · Post by **lovemysan** » Fri Sep 06, 2013 7:02 pm

Front and rear tire sizes are different often. Sure the 2 sizes have different roll centers but I don't really think you can feel it. Combine the open frame and single sided swingarm and you don't exactly having any chassis rigidity to speak of. At 250lbs I find mid corner accuracy seriously lacking. The rear has tendency to flex causing some interesting handling when encountering any bumps.

That said I would be aggravated that they installed 2 different sizes tires without my knowledge. My dealer wanted me to go 3.5x10. But I decided the 100/90 was what I wanted. They also tried to sell me a zippy's, didn't want those either.

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:48 pm

Truthfully I can't remember exactly what was on the scoot OE. Shame on me. I just kept air in them, but didn't really read what I had.

I've heard a bunch of shapes and sizes, and was somewhat surprised at the wide variety Michelin claims is original equipment on the Genuine line:

I'm pretty doggone sure I didn't have 90/90's stock!
Full guide: http://www.michelinmotorcycle.com/conte ... nt2013.pdf

Throwback7R · Post by **Throwback7R** » Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:32 pm

I just installed the Metzeler ME7 Teen 130/70 10 on the rear and have a heidenau tire K61 100/90 10 on the front

The Metzeler was a replacement for the heidenau and so far I really like the larger tire I think I can take turns further.

I am still unsure about grip between the two I am still getting used to the met. Also, I could not beat the price on the Met.

http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/5/ ... =SLIsearch

39.99

koyla87 · Post by **koyla87** » Sat Sep 07, 2013 4:19 am

PeteH wrote:I got my scoot back with its new S1s on board. When I picked up the scoot, the service mgr apologized for the extra day's delay, saying that the tires were two different sizes. They put a 3.5 x 10 up front and a 100/90 x 10 in back. He said, as mentioned here, that the wider rear tire would help the wear and handling. But I neglected to ask if the stock tires were of two different sizes as well. My memory sorta remembers seeing 3.5 at one point, but also maybe 100/90.

I've read anecdotes against using different front/rear tires, but some folks say it's more about brand and tread pattern mismatch. I could also understand if the tires were of _very_ different sizes. I like the way the scoot is handling now; I'm not feeling any problems.

Does anyone else with a 2009 still have stock rubber, and are they the same size or different? Now I'm curious (and just a wee bit paranoid).

i have a black jack with stock white wall tires hahahah sadly for last 3 years or so. I do want to try a different Brand of Tire, Especially those S1 Michelins...
I might just wait and put the tire back on, and order some treads online since its WAYYYYY cheaper than going down to Motorsport Scooters.

these guys have it at a reasonable price

http://www.bikebandit.com/michelin-s1- ... godIj0AVg

So how are the 3.5 in front and the 100/90 in back doing so far for you??

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Sat Sep 07, 2013 4:52 am

I haven't noticed any squirreliness so far, but I've only ridden a few dozen urban miles. I hope to get out this weekend and put on some more miles and see.

FWIW, my old Honda 550 had a fairly large discrepancy in tire width, but I thought the handling was quite good. Not quite a fattie rear tire, but a good bit wider than the front.

koyla87 · Post by **koyla87** » Sat Sep 07, 2013 5:24 am

PeteH wrote:I haven't noticed any squirreliness so far, but I've only ridden a few dozen urban miles. I hope to get out this weekend and put on some more miles and see.

FWIW, my old Honda 550 had a fairly large discrepancy in tire width, but I thought the handling was quite good. Not quite a fattie rear tire, but a good bit wider than the front.

I see. no worries.
There doesn't seem to be any definite answers about the FRONT AND BACK S1 Tires for the Black Jack.

But It seems like the italia and blackjack might have different wheel size specs.
since i might get them online,
maybe i will get the 3.5-10 for the Front and Back since the michelin tire fitting guide recommends it for the Black Jack.
its such a difficult choice. I don't know if the online tire shop will take the tire back if it doesn't fit after been put on the rim. ill have to ask about the return policy.

MGM · Post by **MGM** » Sat Sep 07, 2013 12:50 pm

There's really not much difference between a 3.5 and a 100/90. There was an old post where someone actually did the calculation on the width and it really didn't they were really close. FWIW, my blackjack came with 100/90 front and back.

Tocsik · Post by **Tocsik** » Sat Sep 07, 2013 1:55 pm

koyla87 wrote:
PeteH wrote:I haven't noticed any squirreliness so far, but I've only ridden a few dozen urban miles. I hope to get out this weekend and put on some more miles and see.

FWIW, my old Honda 550 had a fairly large discrepancy in tire width, but I thought the handling was quite good. Not quite a fattie rear tire, but a good bit wider than the front.

I see. no worries.
There doesn't seem to be any definite answers about the FRONT AND BACK S1 Tires for the Black Jack.

But It seems like the italia and blackjack might have different wheel size specs.
since i might get them online,
maybe i will get the 3.5-10 for the Front and Back since the michelin tire fitting guide recommends it for the Black Jack.
its such a difficult choice. I don't know if the online tire shop will take the tire back if it doesn't fit after been put on the rim. ill have to ask about the return policy.

Go with the 100/90 instead of the 3.5X10. Not much difference but the 110/90 is just a tad wider. The BlackJack is the same as the 150 Internationals but with some aftermarket parts thrown on and 100/90 is the stock tire size for the 150's.
If you really want nice cornering, several of us would recommend putting a 130/70 on the rear. It fits with no problems whatsoever and the scooter will roll into turns so much nicer.

koyla87 · Post by **koyla87** » Sat Sep 07, 2013 2:42 pm

Tocsik wrote:
koyla87 wrote:
PeteH wrote:I haven't noticed any squirreliness so far, but I've only ridden a few dozen urban miles. I hope to get out this weekend and put on some more miles and see.

FWIW, my old Honda 550 had a fairly large discrepancy in tire width, but I thought the handling was quite good. Not quite a fattie rear tire, but a good bit wider than the front.

I see. no worries.
There doesn't seem to be any definite answers about the FRONT AND BACK S1 Tires for the Black Jack.

But It seems like the italia and blackjack might have different wheel size specs.
since i might get them online,
maybe i will get the 3.5-10 for the Front and Back since the michelin tire fitting guide recommends it for the Black Jack.
its such a difficult choice. I don't know if the online tire shop will take the tire back if it doesn't fit after been put on the rim. ill have to ask about the return policy.
Go with the 100/90 instead of the 3.5X10. Not much difference but the 110/90 is just a tad wider. The BlackJack is the same as the 150 Internationals but with some aftermarket parts thrown on and 100/90 is the stock tire size for the 150's.
If you really want nice cornering, several of us would recommend putting a 130/70 on the rear. It fits with no problems whatsoever and the scooter will roll into turns so much nicer.

Awesome! Thanks for the advice!
I just need to shop around now.
Alright, Now i gotta decide between HEIDENAU k61 and the Michenil S1. Both seem like high performance and pretty durable.

koyla87 · Post by **koyla87** » Sat Sep 07, 2013 3:29 pm

HEIDENAU k61 are twice the price. Online, 2 tires for $115

Michelin S1 quote for 2 tires are only $75

is it worth the extra $$$ for the HEIDENAU tires?

Throwback7R · Post by **Throwback7R** » Sat Sep 07, 2013 5:47 pm

I liked my Heidenau k61's. Just wore out faster.

WileE · Post by **WileE** » Wed Sep 11, 2013 1:28 pm

With the 130/70 in the back, did you have to do any mods? Doesn't seem like there is a whole lot of extra room back there.

Also, if 130/70 is so stable, why not put that in the front as well?

Throwback7R · Post by **Throwback7R** » Wed Sep 11, 2013 1:40 pm

no mods to get the 130 to fit and the reason i did not put one on the front is the front looks almost new;)

WileE · Post by **WileE** » Wed Sep 11, 2013 1:53 pm

Just did a little search and found the answers to both questions here. Should have known it was already discussed.

I remember the difference from changing out the stock tires on my old scoot (TN'G Milano). Made a world of difference on handling and overall feel. The tires on my Buddy are fine, but it's a fairly cheap change for significant gain.

May have to try the 130/70 on the rear. Sounds like a nice improvement.

bartacus · Post by **bartacus** » Sat Sep 14, 2013 12:36 pm

Second the 130/70 on the rear! I put one on about 100 miles ago and was very pleased with the difference. I don't ride aggressively so I can't say much about handling at the extremes but the ride is a lot smoother with the bigger tire.

I wish I'd put the 130/70 on from the start. Also I did not seem to have a noticeable change in ride height.

Stormswift · Post by **Stormswift** » Sat Sep 14, 2013 10:59 pm

Got rear tire replaced with the same kind of tire I had before. I like whitewalls and wanted the same look. My dealer got me a rear whitewall to match the front . The old tire is having a 2nd life as a planter

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Sun Sep 15, 2013 12:01 am

Assuming that nothing rubs, a 130mm tire (> 5.1 inches) should have a much nicer road contact patch than a 100mm or a 3.5". I guess I'll remember that for my next change!

Throwback7R · Post by **Throwback7R** » Sun Sep 15, 2013 4:27 am

the 130 def does not rub .. I am really enjoying the size.

koyla87 · Post by **koyla87** » Sun Sep 15, 2013 4:03 pm

the Mechanic at Vespa Motorsports overheard my question about K61 130/70
x 10 on the blackjack rear wheel and he said it will not work.......

i already bought 2 of the stock sized K61 wheels, online, just in case. maybe ill experiment next time

Throwback7R · Post by **Throwback7R** » Sun Sep 15, 2013 5:04 pm

Well that is sad the K61's are great tires.
and the 130/70 10 I will say make a great improvement.

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Sun Sep 15, 2013 5:12 pm

So to sum up, the Metzeler 130 fits, but anecdotally the Vespa dude says the Heidenau k61 130 will not. BuddyRaton, what brand of 130/90 is working for you?

Roofaloof · Post by **Roofaloof** » Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:11 pm

After reading this thread and others, I'm going to go with the K61 tires. 100/90-10 up front and 130/70-10 rear. I'll report back about how they fit in a few weeks when I change them over.

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:05 pm

Roof, let us know if the 130 fits, or if the Vespa mechanic is actually correct.

heythere512 · Post by **heythere512** » Fri Oct 11, 2013 3:25 pm

*bump* I was just trying to decide between the K61s and Michelin S1 for my 170i when I found this recent thread. Wanted to bump it up in case anyone has any suggestions or thoughts before I place my order.

I think I'm leaning toward the S1s, a 100/90 front and 130/70 rear.

heythere512 · Post by **heythere512** » Fri Oct 11, 2013 4:51 pm

Made a decision, finally. After crashing from a tire blowout, I decided the extra money is worth it, based on the reviews. Just ordered http://www.motorcycletiresmaniac.com/he ... .html#6236 for my Buddy 170i. Since the stock tires are 100/90/10 both front & back (and I don't quite understand why I would want 130/70 on the back), I ordered two Heidenau K61s in 100/90/10 at $58 each.

There isn't a local Genuine dealer in Sacramento, but if I get stuck, I'm thinking the great folks at Scooter Shop can help me out (Kymco dealer).

kwijybow · Post by **kwijybow** » Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:04 pm

Thanks to this thread I went with the 130/70 on the rear and 100/90 on the front when I put on new Michelin S1's and I love the handling.

definitely +1 from me on the larger rear tire.

pugbuddy · Post by **pugbuddy** » Thu Oct 09, 2014 12:04 am

I want to bump this up as it's time to get new tires for my 2007 Buddy 125.

I had not considered putting a larger tire on the rear. Does anyone know if the 130/70 will fit a 2007 Buddy? I'm planning on getting Heidenau K61s again. Would it be realistic to get the 100/90 for the front and the 130/70 for the back? Or should I avoid it altogether and just get the 3.5x10s?

EDIT: Found this thread so it seems that 100/90/10 on front and 130/70/10 on the rear will work.
viewtopic.php?t=24149&highlight=heidenau

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Thu Oct 09, 2014 3:05 pm

Our Buddy came stock with 3.50X10s front and back. On the other hand it is quite common for scooters to have different tires, and different tread patterns, on the front and rear. Some, such as the Vespa LX150 have different size wheels as well as using a wider tire on the rear.

pugbuddy · Post by **pugbuddy** » Thu Oct 09, 2014 3:32 pm

Yes, I've had stock 3.5x10 since I've had my Buddy. I like the idea of a little more tire on the road though and may change the size. I'm just trying to make sure there are no negatives to doing it.

Tocsik · Post by **Tocsik** » Fri Oct 10, 2014 7:58 pm

I'm on my second or third 130/70 rear tire and haven't had any negatives.
YMMV.

pugbuddy · Post by **pugbuddy** » Sat Oct 11, 2014 10:23 pm

Got 'em on order along with the 100/90s for the front.

Modern Buddy

Tire Sizing

Tire Sizing

Re: Tire Sizing

Black Jack Tire size?

Re: Black Jack Tire size?

Re: Black Jack Tire size?