Censorship

skipper20 · Post by **skipper20** » Tue Jun 24, 2014 4:50 pm

Obviously my use of the word "censorship" in my reply to the Guns thread has inflamed a number of people but that was not my intent and I apologize for using that word. I used it because when I tried to reply to the original post I was told that it was "locked". I didn't understand why it was locked and who did the locking so my initial obviously knee jerk reaction was that this was some form of censorship. When I tried to reply to my own post on the subject and offer an apology for stirring the pot I was again told that it was "locked". So, to make a reply I had to start a new thread with the above "censorship" title. Again, I'm sorry that some of you think I'm some sort of agitator who likes to inflame people with controversial subjects but I'm truly not that kind of person. I just got into this because I didn't understand why I was locked out. To tell the truth, I still don't. If anyone can explain it I would truly appreciate it.

Bill in Seattle

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Tue Jun 24, 2014 5:04 pm

I think it's been explained rather clearly. It's a topic that is not welcome on this forum because it has proven to be disruptive to the purpose of the forum. The thread was locked to prevent it from doing that. Now kindly give it a rest.

az_slynch · Post by **az_slynch** » Tue Jun 24, 2014 5:09 pm

Bill,

The thread was not locked only for you; it was locked for all posters to end participation in the thread.

The thread was not locked strictly because of your creation of the thread; it was most likely locked because another user who should've known better was attempting to stir the pot. That's my best guess, as I Am Not A Moderator. I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express either.

The best advice that I can give is that you re-visit the posting guidelines, which reside at the top of the forum listings. If you have questions regarding the guidelines, ask a moderator.

I believe that you are not being considered an agitator. As it was explained in the now-locked thread (please re-visit and read Eric's final posting in there), there are some topics that are considered non-starters on this forum. Even if the topic is not explicitly named in the posting guidelines, take a moment to ask yourself if it is a topic appropriate for discussion in a public area where you don't know how the people around you may react to your opinion. Some examples:

- Telling people sitting around you at an Auburn-Alabama game that college football is a frivolous waste of time.

- Attending a vegan convention and talking about how you could really go for a steak right about now.

- Going to the Daytona 500 and complaining to those around you that the drivers are going way too fast and that they could learn a thing or two from Prius drivers.

I can tell you that it's a safe bet in any of those examples, somebody's going to come back with a strong, opposing opinion and possibly an ad hominem barrage that might rile you up a bit. Escalation and hurt feelings are likely to follow.

If you have a topic that you want to put out there but truly can't tell if it is an incendiary topic, maybe try PM'ing a moderator first and ask them; they're really here to help!

Whimscootie · Post by **Whimscootie** » Tue Jun 24, 2014 5:21 pm

I've got nothing to add other than to say, ''Bill, stick around! We love your posts! You are an inspiration to other scooterists!''

JHScoot, I miss your scooter-related posts so much. You also inspired and enlightened many others.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Tue Jun 24, 2014 5:55 pm

Anyone who hasn't read Eric's response should do so.

topic27370.html

KrispyKreme · Post by **KrispyKreme** » Tue Jun 24, 2014 5:56 pm

In before the lock!

snoozy · Post by **snoozy** » Tue Jun 24, 2014 6:03 pm

It's not censorship, it is moderation. We don't own this forum. I assume Eric does, and he can set the rules and we can surely abide by them. We have all seen on forums that certain subjects and posters can get out of hand. I see this forum as a place to discuss scooter stuff as well as other pleasant and interesting topics, but mainly, Modern Buddy is all about scooters.

"All things in moderation" is a great attitude and makes for a long life.

az_slynch · Post by **az_slynch** » Tue Jun 24, 2014 6:14 pm

KrispyKreme wrote:In before the lock!

EDIT: Better expression.

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:36 pm

az_slynch wrote:Some examples:

It isn't even about those kinds of situations. It's like starting a debate about religion or politics* at a potuck with a bunch of coworkers that you don't know very well. It won't end happily.

*and this topic is sometimes both

Tazio · Post by **Tazio** » Tue Jun 24, 2014 8:48 pm

If you want to talk about g--ns, come over to SovietSteeds.com in fact Urals came with a machine gun mount until about 2010.

jrstone · Post by **jrstone** » Tue Jun 24, 2014 10:28 pm

I personally like the moderation here. Keeps threads from escalating into flame wars without being over the top and banning people for petty disagreements. I used to frequent a Mitsubishi forum until I got fed up with everyone's attitudes (even the so-called moderators let their egos run wild).

easy · Post by **easy** » Wed Jun 25, 2014 4:16 am

It's the best forum for sure, mods and other members are great. Well except that one nut case a couple years ago.

Post by **ericalm** » Wed Jun 25, 2014 7:14 am

skipper20 wrote:I just got into this because I didn't understand why I was locked out. To tell the truth, I still don't. If anyone can explain it I would truly appreciate it.

Bill in Seattle

I'm not sure it can be explained any more plainly than it is below (from the locked thread that was started to continue the discussion of the previously locked thread).

All members here agree to abide by the Guidelines and our moderation when they join. Those rules are fairly simple. They're not arbitrary; all of them came from past experiences with what works well for a positive, social forum and what usually turns into the kind of crap so common elsewhere.

But if any questions remain, please ask. If it needs clarifying, happy to do so.

ericalm wrote:I get a little irked at the suggestion that moderation of ModernBuddy is, in any way, "censorship." It's a word that gets misused, and in the context of the forum, belies a fundamental misunderstanding of what we all agree to when we register.

The first line of our registration agreement:
"By registering for ModernBuddy.com, you agree to abide by the posting guidelines."

This is a private, membership-based forum that is moderated for content based on those posting guidelines. Enforcing these is not censorship.

We are not an official body or government suppressing your rights or speech.
We're not in any way hindering your ability to discuss a topic or voice your opinion on it.

Compared to most forums, moderation is fairly light here. This is because we're damn awesome and well-behaved, unlike most of what's out there.

We ask very little:

1. Don't be an asshole.
2. Don't dredge up topics likely to result in flame wars and divisive arguments.
3. No spamming.

If that's too much of a burden or too oppressive for anyone, membership and participation are not mandatory.

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Wed Jun 25, 2014 4:05 pm

Whimscootie wrote:I've got nothing to add other than to say, ''Bill, stick around! We love your posts! You are an inspiration to other scooterists!''

JHScoot, I miss your scooter-related posts so much. You also inspired and enlightened many others.

hi

my scooter related posts are not over. just not as much time for posting and i have had my attention on motorcycles lately. but my scooters are still in action

my NSR posts? just trying to bring healthy, relevant conversation to the forum. its unfortunate another way of moderating cannot be done and just have the agitators disciplined or banned.

i made a guns thread because its relevant to scooting and action sports. when given careful thought you can relate the two things. mechanical, maintaince, care and training. just like riding

risky to many, we are dumb for riding to many. and dumb for even touching or going near guns to many

WE COULD DIE!

so the Guns topic taken in proper context is a great subject for this board. and other weaponry.Guns are dangerous to some extent. so is riding. people die. gotta get over all that to make life, and other things, interesting

discussion of football has more potential for discussion of violence then guns. a gun just sits there and we just talk about 'em

a gun forum? i don't have time. i am not a sportsman, political person, or gun control / anti gun control person. i am a rider of two wheeled things with an interest in firearms and sense a relation between the two things

however OP it is not censorship, of course. that is not possible on a message board its a privately owned thing. this is like eric's house. what the homeowner says, goes

no biggie at all

KrispyKreme · Post by **KrispyKreme** » Wed Jun 25, 2014 5:06 pm

......

az_slynch · Post by **az_slynch** » Wed Jun 25, 2014 6:19 pm

Please put it away.

pugbuddy · Post by **pugbuddy** » Wed Jun 25, 2014 7:09 pm

I think the issue is Ericalm's marxist-leninist-bourgeoisie-avatar who, while peering forward into the future with a crushing, clenched fist, is obviously striving to destroy our freedoms! BeWare and Be Warned!

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Thu Jun 26, 2014 5:08 am

JHScoot wrote:so the Guns topic taken in proper context is a great subject for this board. and other weaponry. Guns are dangerous to some extent. so is riding. people die. gotta get over all that to make life, and other things, interesting

discussion of football has more potential for discussion of violence then guns. a gun just sits there and we just talk about 'em

a gun forum? i don't have time. i am not a sportsman, political person, or gun control / anti gun control person. i am a rider of two wheeled things with an interest in firearms and sense a relation between the two things

No, it is not a great discussion item for this board. This is a scooter forum. If you don't have time for a gun forum, I certainly don't have time for you to use this as a gun forum. Stop already - please.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Thu Jun 26, 2014 11:24 am

pugbuddy wrote:I think the issue is Ericalm's marxist-leninist-bourgeoisie-avatar who, while peering forward into the future with a crushing, clenched fist, is obviously striving to destroy our freedoms! BeWare and Be Warned!

OK...that was funny!

KrispyKreme · Post by **KrispyKreme** » Thu Jun 26, 2014 2:10 pm

JHScoot wrote:
Whimscootie wrote:I've got nothing to add other than to say, ''Bill, stick around! We love your posts! You are an inspiration to other scooterists!''

JHScoot, I miss your scooter-related posts so much. You also inspired and enlightened many others.

A gun forum? i don't have time.

Judging from your post count on this forum, I will go out on a limb and say you have plenty of time.

JettaKnight · Post by **JettaKnight** » Fri Jun 27, 2014 4:42 pm

Personally, I don't want to see any NSR threads - it gets in my way of finding scooter stuff. I don't care about your Twinkies, MacBooks or Zombies. Go post that on Faceborg. They are not "relevant conversation to the forum".

Now that I've sifted through the posts, I'm off to the Indiana Gun Owners forum.

Yeah, IBTL. Kudos for Eric and the other mods that do a great job here!

KrispyKreme · Post by **KrispyKreme** » Fri Jun 27, 2014 6:01 pm

JettaKnight wrote:Personally, I don't want to see any NSR threads - it gets in my way of finding scooter stuff. I don't care about your Twinkies, MacBooks or Zombies. Go post that on Faceborg. They are not "relevant conversation to the forum

az_slynch · Post by **az_slynch** » Fri Jun 27, 2014 9:49 pm

Waiting for the "Why red is red?!?!

Could this be the new Buddy = Less Respect! thread?

charlie55 · Post by **charlie55** » Fri Jun 27, 2014 10:36 pm

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Fri Jun 27, 2014 10:56 pm

az_slynch wrote:Waiting for the "Why red is red?!?!

Could this be the new Buddy = Less Respect! thread?

I always think that these threads are just so stupid.

It's a free site
People put a lot of work into running it
If there are a few rules...meh...it's my choice to stay or go...I like it here

As far as all the whining and complaining about so called "censorship"

WHY RED IS RED!

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:13 pm

You know it occurs to me that for the administrators and moderators of this forum having members must be like having children,

When they are young...they are in awe of their "parents" and older "aunts" and "uncles". As they "grow up" they realize that the "parents" are not perfect and come to the point where they know that the parents are...well ok...they are downright ignorant, stupid buffoons and that the child is just so much smarter, cooler, and filled with awesomeness that the "parent" is just not genetically or mentally qualified to possess. The "parent" is an idiot.

Next are the teen age years. They are no longer "children"...they are squatters...as such, after a certain period of time they believe that they own the "parents" stuff...houses, cars, scooters, money...etc. The longer they squat the more they believe they own.

In my case my wife's 20 year old granddaughter who is staying with us while attending college has expanded her domain from one bedroom to two and has informed me that I need to park a scooter in a different spot in the garage as it makes it slightly difficult to get the monthly (bimonthly?) mega loads of laundry out of the washer and into the dryer. Not that we feed he, pay the mortgage, insurance, water...etc while snaking my way through a sea of bras hanging from the drying racks like so many bloated mutant pythons. (Yes...I live in an estrogen ocean)

After surviving the squatter phase...if they do, they may grow into productive members of society and part of the family that are fun to be around!

I will say one thing...people are entertaining!

So thanks MB for being good "parents" and providing a good home!

Tazio · Post by **Tazio** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 10:06 pm

All those dead horse pictures remind me of the old saying, "Real cowboys shoot Colts."

JettaKnight · Post by **JettaKnight** » Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:52 pm

Tazio wrote:All those dead horse pictures remind me of the old saying, "Real cowboys shoot Colts."

Hey now! no guns!

caffeine65 · Post by **caffeine65** » Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:35 pm

I don't see the logic in the "guns and scooters are related" argument. Sorry.

Dooglas wrote: If you don't have time for a gun forum, I certainly don't have time for you to use this as a gun forum.

Well put!

Post by **ericalm** » Wed Jul 02, 2014 6:34 am

So, anyone else curious as to why threads get locked?

That's a rhetorical question.

pugbuddy wrote:I think the issue is Ericalm's marxist-leninist-bourgeoisie-avatar who, while peering forward into the future with a crushing, clenched fist, is obviously striving to destroy our freedoms! BeWare and Be Warned!

Tazio · Post by **Tazio** » Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:26 pm

This thread would not have lasted 2 seconds on ModernVespa. I got a thread locked over there just complaining about the drop in MPG with ethanol in our gasoline.

KrispyKreme · Post by **KrispyKreme** » Thu Jul 03, 2014 2:22 am

Tazio wrote:This thread would not have lasted 2 seconds on ModernVespa. I got a thread locked over there just complaining about the drop in MPG with ethanol in our gasoline.

Source? Love to see it.

Edit-Let's dance!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS9OO0S5w2k

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Thu Jul 03, 2014 4:54 am

Tazio wrote: I got a thread locked over there just complaining about the drop in MPG with ethanol in our gasoline.

Care to post the link? (it usually takes quite a bit more than that on MV, unless you are being snarky with Jess or the moderators of course)

az_slynch · Post by **az_slynch** » Thu Jul 03, 2014 5:08 am

Search keyword "ethanol" and author "Tazio"...wait for it...et voila':

http://modernvespa.com/forum/topic11409 ... ht=ethanol

Moderraptor is a fitting appellation for JimC; no baloney on his watch. Admittedly, it took eight minutes rather than two seconds if you wanna be Swiss about it...given how long this "beach ball" has been bumped around this crowd, he'd be in a right lather if this managed to happen on MV.

Guilty of bumping, mean culpa. However, Tazio's got a point: if you really need to know how much latitude we have on MB, cruise MV for a bit and look for banned users. Check their profile and post history if you need to know what hill they chose to die on. Look for locked posts. Read their FAQ. It's a bit eye-opening.

Tazio · Post by **Tazio** » Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:53 pm

Yeah, I guess my complaint was about poor quality sweetcorn rather than MPG. I've measured gas milege in CA compared to other states that do not use ethanol with several vehicles ranging from a Honda CRV to a Porsche 911 and the average reduction in milege is about 10%.

The AMA is fighting the 15% future because of documented damage that ethanol does to engines not designed for it.

This same thread about the sweetcorn flew fine on ModernBuddy with a great discussion.

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Thu Jul 03, 2014 7:38 pm

Tazio wrote:Yeah, I guess my complaint was about poor quality sweetcorn rather than MPG...

I could argue that your complaint was more about 'you-know-who' and 'their' policies than about sweet corn. And if it wasn't it probably would have ended up there sooner than later.

But to get back to the subject of this thread, the reason, I think, that the moderation at the sister station is so much stricter is simple.

Buddy owners are friendlier!

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:35 pm

Tazio wrote:Yeah, I guess my complaint was about poor quality sweetcorn rather than MPG.

That wasn't what the lock was about - as I presume you already know. It was about the sneaky political reference that violated the MV posting guidelines. (My gripe with enforcement of posting guidelines on MV is not that they actually do it - my gripe is the way the guidelines don't hardly seem to apply to some of the "good old boy" members)

Syd wrote:Buddy owners are friendlier!

And I sure agree with this. Things can turn quickly ugly over on MV.

KrispyKreme · Post by **KrispyKreme** » Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:20 pm

Dooglas wrote:
Tazio wrote:Yeah, I guess my complaint was about poor quality sweetcorn rather than MPG.
That wasn't what the lock was about - as I presume you already know. It was about the sneaky political reference that violated the MV posting guidelines. (My gripe with enforcement of posting guidelines on MV is not that they actually do it - my gripe is the way the guidelines don't hardly seem to apply to some of the "good old boy" members)

charlie55 · Post by **charlie55** » Thu Jul 03, 2014 10:37 pm

Over time, a well-moderated forum will attract and retain well-mannered people†. A forum's reputation is the first line of defense; its moderators are the second; and its membership is the third as trolls and hotheads don't thrive in places where they can't get anyone else to play.

†Amazingly, even some non-Buddists

Post by **ericalm** » Fri Jul 04, 2014 2:30 am

Syd wrote: But to get back to the subject of this thread, the reason, I think, that the moderation at the sister station is so much stricter is simple.

Buddy owners are friendlier!

Truth!

MV is very difficult to manage due to its size and volume. The likelihood of things getting out of hand there is much higher than on MB. It's tough to know when to lock something there sometimes because it can all snowball downhill pretty damn fast.

KrispyKreme · Post by **KrispyKreme** » Fri Jul 04, 2014 2:55 am

ericalm wrote:
Syd wrote: But to get back to the subject of this thread, the reason, I think, that the moderation at the sister station is so much stricter is simple.

Buddy owners are friendlier!
Truth!

MV is very difficult to manage due to its size and volume. The likelihood of things getting out of hand there is much higher than on MB. It's tough to know when to lock something there sometimes because it can all snowball downhill pretty damn fast.

People from the U.S. and over the pond are close to even in membership. Factor in Israel(Trepp) and some great folks from down under(NZ too. ZNOMIT is very cool). It is a very large party. Moderators are great there. JimC is a fine example of moderating with no bias. Hard to do.

Eric is a fine owner of this establishment. Because that is what it is. Belly up to the bar. Get out of line? I'll buy you a beer......next time? Better have hat in hand. Next time? You change my belt and rollers.......

For fear that this will be lost in the verbose vortex of doom...good job on that Helix. Lotta respect here, FWIW.

Censorship

Censorship

Re: Censorship