Dirty Deeds at Scooterworks?

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Mon Aug 11, 2014 5:38 pm

Phil McCaleb not happy with change of ownership.

http://cookcountyrecord.com/top-stories ... om-company

KrispyKreme · Post by **KrispyKreme** » Mon Aug 11, 2014 6:06 pm

Dooglas wrote:Phil McCaleb not happy with change of ownership.

http://cookcountyrecord.com/top-stories ... om-company

Ugly stuff. Not surprising though.

EuphonyWhite · Post by **EuphonyWhite** » Mon Aug 11, 2014 6:14 pm

Seems it is in the hands of the courts to determine the outcome. Hopefully the new owners intend to continue business as usual and not liquidate assets. I can't imagine they would want to with Genuine and ScooterWorks' notoriety.

(keep in mind be sure not to violate posting guidelines bad mouthing businesses) *hey I'm new I just read them ;P

Worth keeping updated on, thank you for sharing.

skully93 · Post by **skully93** » Mon Aug 11, 2014 8:29 pm

That sucks.

I hope it works out for him. Phil and I had a few conversations and I think he's great! I love my Buddy, which obviously wouldn't be here without his efforts.

You never know what went on, so I won't speculate. I just hope he's able to enjoy the fruits of his labor, and Genuine continues on in good form.

charlie55 · Post by **charlie55** » Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:14 pm

Any time you get acquired by a company with the word "holdings" in their name, well, bend over and grab your ankles.

KrispyKreme · Post by **KrispyKreme** » Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:25 pm

charlie55 wrote:Any time you get acquired by a company with the word "holdings" in their name, well, bend over and grab your ankles.

slotrod65 · Post by **slotrod65** » Tue Aug 12, 2014 12:15 am

This sort of thing never ends well. When is the last time you read the headline: "COMPANY SAVED FROM DEDICATED, WELL MEANING FOUNDER BY BEAN COUNTERS AND WALL STREET TYPES"?

Check the history of Aurora Plastics, JMI/VOX amps, Danelectro guitars, etc.

rsrider · Post by **rsrider** » Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:54 am

The only comment posted was one from a SW employee who was told to stay away from McCaleb or forget any promotions within the company. Shady and disrespectful of the person who created the business, but that's what corporate scum do, muscle out any opposition to their way to the top.

tburick495 · Post by **tburick495** » Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:16 am

I know Phil personally and he is a really, really, great guy. He never openly discussed this situation with me, but from speaking with him I sensed there was a lot of trouble brewing...and now it all makes sense.

I hope he sues there a** off and wins.

Phil is a legend and a man with a huge heart. I had a series of problems with one of my brand new Stella's a few years back and Phil personally REPLACED the bike for me no questions asked...and threw in a t-shirt

I've owned 4 Stella's and 2 Buddies (all purchased new) and have bought thousands of dollars in parts and accessories from Scooter Works.

No more Scooter Works or Genuine purchases from me until they do right by Phil! Seriously. I would encourage all members to show their support. It's super easy to order parts and accessories directly from PGO / LML via ebay and many other internet retailers...bypassing Genuine entirely. It's worth a few dollars more in shipping to send them a message that their customers support Genuine's Founder!

SockyTX · Post by **SockyTX** » Wed Aug 13, 2014 2:57 am

sorry,
Guess i didnt see the dirty deeds thread when i posted Scandalous at lunch today.
Now I can't stop singing ACDC in my head

Wolfhound · Post by **Wolfhound** » Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:25 am

I agree with TBuricks last statement. I have owned a Stella and now own a Buddy 170i. If I buy any other scoots it will not be a Buddy. I wont support the present company or its owners.

Whimscootie · Post by **Whimscootie** » Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:38 pm

Sounds like Genuine might be "going down" and so goes the dealer support system for current owners.

What a loss for the US scooter community.

Wolfhound · Post by **Wolfhound** » Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:55 pm

Deb, lets hope not. I hope he gets his company back. If not lets hope that someone else gets the franchise from PGO and markets the line correctly.
If it folds it should be a while before parts become scarce. Maybe scooterswest.com can get the parts franchise from PGO. If not, I am very satisfied with my dealer, Vespa Marietta(shameless plug!) and would look
hard at the Piaggio line.

Wolfhound · Post by **Wolfhound** » Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:59 pm

Perhaps Ericalm can weigh in on this subject. He is usually the man in the know!!!

charlie55 · Post by **charlie55** » Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:10 pm

Let's not get too ahead of ourselves here. Especially this idea about boycotting Genuine. Start squeezing their revenue stream and you'll bring about the very thing you don't want - bye-bye to Genuine. Besides, you'll leave them too broke to pay Phil when he wins the suit.

Hold off on the pitchforks and torches until the fat lady sings, lawsuit-wise.

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:17 pm

Hostile takeovers happen all the time. I am the first to admit I have no idea about the chain of events at Genuine.

But remember a couple of things:
- Genuine continues to bring fresh imports (Hooligan, StellAuto)
- I haven't heard about any major trashing of the dealer relationships

So as I don't know (from the horse's mouth) the conditions under which Phil relinquished control and left the organization, I have to assume it was a mutually-agreed-to deal. I'd like to know more, but until then, I'm with Charlie and am putting away my pitchfork for now.

skully93 · Post by **skully93** » Wed Aug 13, 2014 2:37 pm

My local dealers depends on Genuine, so I wouldn't boycott them.

SHAME them maybe

.

KrispyKreme · Post by **KrispyKreme** » Wed Aug 13, 2014 6:25 pm

charlie55 wrote:Let's not get too ahead of ourselves here. Especially this idea about boycotting Genuine.

This.

Nobody knows the story, just the fact that Phil was a nice guy to people he came across.

tburick495 · Post by **tburick495** » Thu Aug 14, 2014 12:48 pm

Just a few other thoughts -

Phil and I talk on the phone and exchange emails on a semi-regular basis. I get the feeling that this is a "Bring Steve Jobs back to Apple" situation. Phil is very reserved about this situation when we talk...so it's sometimes a matter of reading between the lines.

As far as some of the new product like the Stella auto and the Hooligan - those are 100% Philip McCaleb products...he worked very hard on those products for a long time.

I also gathered that there is significantly less traffic to the genuine website since his departure...it seems they've substituted google ads and buying "likes" in place of community involvement and real content. (my opinion on the latter).

Phil did mention that the "Genuine Family Reunion" rides in 2012 were the single greatest draw to the website that the company ever had. That's gone ...hence my comment on community involvement and significantly less traffic to the website.

Seems like there is almost zero marketing since his departure and the local dealer I spoke with said that no one at genuine is pushing business their way.

Bottom line is: Philip McCaleb IS Genuine Scooters.

I can understand the comments about putting the pitchforks away for now...but at the very least, I'd be contacting Genuine and voicing my distain over what they've done.

Phil, if you check this forum - I support you 100%!

Wolfhound · Post by **Wolfhound** » Thu Aug 14, 2014 1:02 pm

Well said, tburick.

lovemysan · Post by **lovemysan** » Thu Aug 14, 2014 3:52 pm

tburick495 wrote:Just a few other thoughts -

Phil and I talk on the phone and exchange emails on a semi-regular basis. I get the feeling that this is a "Bring Steve Jobs back to Apple" situation. Phil is very reserved about this situation when we talk...so it's sometimes a matter of reading between the lines.

As far as some of the new product like the Stella auto and the Hooligan - those are 100% Philip McCaleb products...he worked very hard on those products for a long time.

I also gathered that there is significantly less traffic to the genuine website since his departure...it seems they've substituted google ads and buying "likes" in place of community involvement and real content. (my opinion on the latter).

Phil did mention that the "Genuine Family Reunion" rides in 2012 were the single greatest draw to the website that the company ever had. That's gone ...hence my comment on community involvement and significantly less traffic to the website.

Seems like there is almost zero marketing since his departure and the local dealer I spoke with said that no one at genuine is pushing business their way.

Bottom line is: Philip McCaleb IS Genuine Scooters.

I can understand the comments about putting the pitchforks away for now...but at the very least, I'd be contacting Genuine and voicing my distain over what they've done.

Phil, if you check this forum - I support you 100%!

My local dealer would agree. The hooligan was dropped late spring. Marketing materials we're never given to them either. As you said zero marketing of new product. The Stella autos initially were awful IMO. Lots of gremlins. No service manual, poor fit and finish, wiring is a mess.

Post by **ericalm** » Thu Aug 14, 2014 5:35 pm

charlie55 wrote:Let's not get too ahead of ourselves here.

This.

I've been holding back on getting into this here, mostly because I know folks on both sides and none of us have all of the facts. The story linked in the OP is a bit sensationalistic and could lead to people drawing all sorts of conclusions based on insufficient information.

I've expressed my respect and admiration for Phillip many times here in the past. He was clearly the face and vision behind Genuine. But it takes a number of people for a company like that to operate and there are people on "the other side" who I've met several times and had the opportunity to spend time with and I like them as well.

In some ways, this is like when friends divorce. As with personal relationships, people outside seldom know what really happens or what it's really like behind the doors of a company.

I'll also add that I have no inside information on this and that I've not spoken with both parties about it. As with the divorce comparison, this is between them.

So I'd caution anyone against jumping to conclusions or taking action based on word of mouth, hearsay, rumor or even reports like this. In the end, our judgment on Genuine, the company, should be based on the products they provide, the level of service and so on.

If we started boycotting every company that (if the allegations are true) mistreated someone, conducted a business deal poorly, behaved unethically, etc., then none of us would be here on MB because we'd have to throw away all of our devices and we wouldn't ride scooters because there are no companies more guilty than the oil companies.

pugbuddy · Post by **pugbuddy** » Thu Aug 14, 2014 7:05 pm

because there are no companies more guilty than the oil companies.

POLITICAL DISCUSSION ON THE WAY! GUIDELINES! GUIDELINES!

Whimscootie · Post by **Whimscootie** » Thu Aug 14, 2014 7:21 pm

Eric said it...it's like a divorce and none of us really know what happened.

We should just go on and support the products and the community of riders, this board being one example.

IMO, the new Hooligan is one of the best in the line, so I hope it sells successfully, in spite of low marketing.

KrispyKreme · Post by **KrispyKreme** » Thu Aug 14, 2014 7:51 pm

pugbuddy wrote:
because there are no companies more guilty than the oil companies.
POLITICAL DISCUSSION ON THE WAY! GUIDELINES! GUIDELINES!

charlie55 · Post by **charlie55** » Thu Aug 14, 2014 9:47 pm

ericalm wrote:..... there are no companies more guilty than the oil companies.

It's always "blame the Italians" with you guys.

rsrider · Post by **rsrider** » Thu Aug 14, 2014 11:17 pm

charlie55 wrote:
Hold off on the pitchforks and torches until the fat lady sings, lawsuit-wise.

Wolfhound · Post by **Wolfhound** » Thu Aug 14, 2014 11:29 pm

It is going to be an interesting fight.

Not sure thsat there will be a clear cut winner. Will Grenuine survive? Probably.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Fri Aug 15, 2014 12:03 am

ericalm wrote:I've been holding back on getting into this here, mostly because I know folks on both sides and none of us have all of the facts. The story linked in the OP is a bit sensationalistic and could lead to people drawing all sorts of conclusions based on insufficient information.

Well said Eric. I think it is clear to most of us that Phil McCaleb has been one of the foremost visionaries on the American scooter scene for many years. And it was this vision and leadership that created Genuine Scooters. On the other hand, it is also common knowledge that the company went through some difficult financial times and business problems of that sort often lead to strategic disagreements and tough choices. Some of those clearly happened at Genuine and an individual would have to know more than I do to take sides - or even want to take sides.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Fri Aug 15, 2014 12:06 am

pugbuddy wrote:Political discussion on the way! Guidelines! Guidelines!

Aren't scooter politics the one exception?

caffeine65 · Post by **caffeine65** » Fri Aug 15, 2014 3:08 pm

Genuine will continue to receive my support. What choice do I have? I'm operating a brand new scooter under warranty. I need Genuine more than they need me!

Post by **ericalm** » Fri Aug 15, 2014 7:55 pm

Dooglas wrote:
pugbuddy wrote:Political discussion on the way! Guidelines! Guidelines!
Aren't scooter politics the one exception?

Nope. They're as bad as any other.

Cam · Post by **Cam** » Sun Aug 17, 2014 8:02 pm

My guess is that whoever wins this lawsuit...nothing good will come of it for customers.
Since "the suit states the companies sought outside investors, which eventually led Chicago Associates Inc. to offer $4 million for a 54 percent interest in the two, a 2011 deal that created Scooter Works Holdings LLC."
... perhaps the best solution for Phil and US and the present majority owners would be for the OWNERS to be bought out at the same price they offered Phil per share for his shares.
Surely they would be better off taking the same fair offer they made Phil rather than risk the loss of the suit and customer good will?

charlie55 · Post by **charlie55** » Sun Aug 17, 2014 9:23 pm

Cam wrote:My guess is that whoever wins this lawsuit...nothing good will come of it for customers.
Since "the suit states the companies sought outside investors, which eventually led Chicago Associates Inc. to offer $4 million for a 54 percent interest in the two, a 2011 deal that created Scooter Works Holdings LLC."
... perhaps the best solution for Phil and US and the present majority owners would be for the OWNERS to be bought out at the same price they offered Phil per share for his shares.
Surely they would be better off taking the same fair offer they made Phil rather than risk the loss of the suit and customer good will?

But who's gonna front the money to buy out the owners? Odds are it'll be another one of the venture capital/holding company/M&A gangs. Then it's back to square one, or worse.

Southerner · Post by **Southerner** » Fri Sep 19, 2014 3:29 am

Been away for a while.

So have there been any new developments?

Keys · Post by **Keys** » Tue Dec 02, 2014 11:12 pm

Wow. It's been, like, forEVER since I've been on this forum, although I'm one of the oldest members. Sorry to hear about Phil being shoved out. He and I corresponded several times...in fact, he swapped me a "Buddy" t-shirt WAAAAY back when for one of my "skutergruven" t-shirts. Heck of a guy.

...and if he doesn't get the company back, I wish him all the best. He has been such a driving force for quality scooters in the ol' U.S. of A.

Be well, Phil.

--Keys

Post by **jrsjr** » Wed Dec 03, 2014 1:40 am

Keys wrote:Wow. It's been, like, forEVER since I've been on this forum, although I'm one of the oldest members. Sorry to hear about Phil being shoved out. He and I corresponded several times...in fact, he swapped me a "Buddy" t-shirt WAAAAY back when for one of my "skutergruven" t-shirts. Heck of a guy.

...and if he doesn't get the company back, I wish him all the best. He has been such a driving force for quality scooters in the ol' U.S. of A.

Be well, Phil.

--Keys

Keys is in da house! Welcome back. It's been a year and a half. How are you?

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Fri Dec 05, 2014 12:41 am

Long time, Keys. How ya doing?

Modern Buddy

Dirty Deeds at Scooterworks?

Dirty Deeds at Scooterworks?

Re: Dirty Deeds at Scooterworks?