Odds of Genuine offering a 300cc scoot

wheelbender6 · Post by **wheelbender6** » Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:15 am

I really like the way the Vespa 300GTS packages a big, faster scooter in the footprint of a 150cc scooter. Any chance that Genuine is working on importing a classic 300cc scoot?
TGB is offering one in the Bellavita.

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Mon Dec 08, 2014 4:33 am

Around here it's called the Genuine Cruiser (aka the Rainbow Unicorn).

It's was rumored back when there was the perfect storm of easy credit and high gas prices. Everything changed in '08, and it never made it past the publicly undisclosed stage. Some of us still wait, though.

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Mon Dec 08, 2014 4:33 am

Sorry for the double post.

az_slynch · Post by **az_slynch** » Mon Dec 08, 2014 4:49 am

I suspect that you have better odds of catching a fart in a hurricane that you do of riding home on a new Genuine Cruiser 300.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Mon Dec 08, 2014 5:38 am

wheelbender6 wrote:I really like the way the Vespa 300GTS packages a big, faster scooter in the footprint of a 150cc scooter.

And the answer to that would be to own and ride a Vespa GTS. Not a bad idea at all as it is an excellent scooter.

jd · Post by jd » Tue Dec 09, 2014 1:17 am

Neither of Genuine's current scooter suppliers even have a 300cc engine. PGO doesn't go any larger than a 220cc and LML goes only as high as 200cc.

Genuine would never generate enough U.S. volume to justify a unique engine, much less a unique bike, so they'd have to develop a relationship with a third supplier of bikes (maybe SYM?) which brings along with it a whole raft of complications. They could never justify it, especially for a product which would probably be their lowest volume scooter.

You want a larger-engined scooter? Time to look at a Honda Forza, Suzuki Burgman 400, Yamaha Majesty, et al. Or, of course, the Vespa.

wheelbender6 · Post by **wheelbender6** » Tue Dec 09, 2014 1:25 am

The Forza, Citycom, BV, etc look great, but have a longer wheelbase and wider body panels than the GTS. My lack of garage space available keeps the GTS atop my list, though its pricier than the others.

ravenlore · Post by **ravenlore** » Tue Dec 09, 2014 1:26 am

Too bad they couldn't hook up with Scomadi.

Presto, instant Genuine Cruiser.

wheelbender6 · Post by **wheelbender6** » Tue Dec 09, 2014 1:43 am

Nothing against the Blur. it would be great for local highways and FM roads. I just need to occasionally be able to run 80mph to safely enter and exit the HOV/toll lanes on my local interstate. I-10 is a coast-to-coast freeway and people drive accordingly.

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Tue Dec 09, 2014 2:27 am

ravenlore wrote:Too bad they couldn't hook up with Scomadi.

Presto, instant Genuine Cruiser.

I don't know where that rumor started but sign me up.

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Tue Dec 09, 2014 2:58 am

meh. i have really come to think anything 250 / 300cc and above is a motorcycle. why diddle daddle unless physical limitations dictate? screw the genuine cruiser flying unicorn thing when the market is flush with good 300cc motorcycles and such in the same class. shifting is easy, storage is simple with luggage or bags, and its all good

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Tue Dec 09, 2014 6:57 am

JHScoot wrote:meh. i have really come to think anything 250 / 300cc and above is... all good

Exactly.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Tue Dec 09, 2014 2:19 pm

The GTS 300 is a great scooter but I would have a hard time saying it has a "150 foot print" considering size and weight.

2" larger wheels, 10" longer wheelbase, add about 100 lbs etc etc.

I have a 225 cc 2T and honestly that's as big a motor as I want to go on 10" wheels.

ravenlore · Post by **ravenlore** » Tue Dec 09, 2014 6:48 pm

Syd wrote:
ravenlore wrote:Too bad they couldn't hook up with Scomadi.

Presto, instant Genuine Cruiser.
I don't know where that rumor started but sign me up.

It's not a rumor, just an opinion.

a couple opinions, actually:

http://www.scooterfile.com/oems/genuine ... e-scomadi/

Post by **jrsjr** » Tue Dec 09, 2014 7:20 pm

ravenlore wrote:
Syd wrote:
ravenlore wrote:Too bad they couldn't hook up with Scomadi.

Presto, instant Genuine Cruiser.
I don't know where that rumor started but sign me up.
It's not a rumor, just an opinion.

a couple opinions, actually:

http://www.scooterfile.com/oems/genuine ... e-scomadi/

Well, that's certainly food for thought. All along, I'd been thinking No Way. No Way. No Way. After reading Salzman's OP ED piece, I suddenly thought, Why the Hell Not? In fact, that way I could get a Piaggio-powered scooter legally in the USA without having to deal with Piaggio USA. The stirrings of an evil plan are forming...

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Tue Dec 09, 2014 7:46 pm

Syd wrote:
JHScoot wrote:meh. i have really come to think anything 250 / 300cc and above is... all good
Exactly.

well most here have more experience with a variety of bikes than i do. i have yet to ride a "big" scooter and do love small ones. so "bigger, heavier" scooter makes little sense to me. unless limited physically, as some are for one reason or the next

but as "riding is riding" i can't make sense of the desire by some for this Genuine Unicorn, or any other big, heavy scooter. just because my first motorcycle honestly feels like my Agility 125 but bigger and with way more power. its just as comfortable, and 200 pounds heavier but does not feel it as its very well balanced. however all other things being equal the riding position, feel, and nimbleness i find very "scooter" like

so why ride a heavier, bigger, slower scooter? it just seems like choosing to ride a heavier, slower bike when the motorcycle world offers lighter, faster ones. you know, like our small scooters?

and with Honda offering auto trans bikes and all the rest....why wish for this thing when an auto 700NC or CTX is right there to be had, and i hear a small auto bike is coming from Honda, too

so, there is your Unicorn, no?

and it doesn't have to be Genuine, anymore. from what i have read with Phil gone from ownership its not much the same, scooter loving company it used to be. not at all

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Tue Dec 09, 2014 7:49 pm

oh, and them odds are ZERO. where is Genuine gonna get this scooter from? they don't build 'em, after all

keltick · Post by **keltick** » Tue Dec 09, 2014 8:53 pm

That is the thing. Genuine doesn't make any scooters. They just brand and distribute them.

ravenlore · Post by **ravenlore** » Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:04 pm

keltick wrote:That is the thing. Genuine doesn't make any scooters. They just brand and distribute them.

That's why hooking up with Scomadi would be so awesome. Like the dude says in the Op-Ed I linked above, Scomadi needs a US distributor, Genuine needs a Cruiser. And the Cruiser wouldn't step on PGO's or LML's toes because they simply aren't competing with either company. The product is completely different.

Alexbv200 · Post by **Alexbv200** » Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:11 pm

Also the article is wrong...

The Scomadi is actually 50 Pounds more expensive than a GTS 300 Super.

There is NO WAY that Piaggio would let Genuine import a scooter with one of their (Piaggio) engines in it....

Post by **jrsjr** » Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:24 pm

Alexbv200 wrote:There is NO WAY that Piaggio would let Genuine import a scooter with one of their (Piaggio) engines in it....

And that's the answer to my question, "Why the Hell Not?"

ravenlore · Post by **ravenlore** » Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:34 pm

jrsjr wrote:
Alexbv200 wrote:There is NO WAY that Piaggio would let Genuine import a scooter with one of their (Piaggio) engines in it....
And that's the answer to my question, "Why the Hell Not?"

Indeed.

Piaggio is letting them sell...at all. Anywhere. Ever. Why would the US be different? Unless it would be Genuine's involvement that would piss them off...

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Wed Dec 10, 2014 12:45 am

ravenlore wrote:It's not a rumor, just an opinion.

You're correct, raven. I made an assumption that the idea started elsewhere.

JHScoot wrote:...so why ride a heavier, bigger, slower scooter?

1.)Heavier is usually an unfortunate side effect of Bigger. I've ridden a Metropolitan clone. It is very uncomfortable for me. Bigger can mean more comfortable.
2.) Bigger and heavier does not have to equal slow.

It's a pipe-dream, I know. But this particular pipe-dream is a really good one. Ya gotta dream, right?

wheelbender6 · Post by **wheelbender6** » Wed Dec 10, 2014 12:46 am

"2" larger wheels, 10" longer wheelbase, add about 100 lbs etc etc. "
I didn't realize that the wheelbase of the Buddy 125 is considerably less than 50 inches.
Its not an easy dimension to find on the Genuine website or anywhere else on the web.
I had to get the wheelbase in mm from my owners manual and convert to inches.

Post by **ericalm** » Fri Dec 19, 2014 6:52 am

keltick wrote:That is the thing. Genuine doesn't make any scooters. They just brand and distribute them.

This isn't entirely true. Well… not exactly. Genuine has worked pretty actively with PGO and (to a lesse degree) LML on recent models.

The Genuine Cruiser was a Genuine-designed scooter that PGO was going to build for all their markets. The body style was unlike anything PGO builds. The scoot got pretty far in development, with a mock up built.

It was back unnerved by the recession. Then the driving force behind it, Philip McCaleb, left Genuine.

I think it would have to be a really appealing scooter in terms of price, appearance and performance. The Cruiser would have been on the right track. A sport style maxi like the Forza may not be because it's hard to compete with the Hinda, which has a pretty good price point.

Genuine knows that trying to have a product to serve or please all possible buyers isn't a good move. Just because some people want it, even a lot, doesn't mean it will make enough of a profit or even sell well over a few years.

Elder Scoot · Post by **Elder Scoot** » Fri Dec 19, 2014 7:39 pm

There are rumors circulating from the recent get together in Chicago that Genuine has a new bike to be released - but Genuine is being very tight-lipped.

KrispyKreme · Post by **KrispyKreme** » Fri Dec 19, 2014 9:16 pm

Elder Scoot wrote:There are rumors circulating from the recent get together in Chicago that Genuine has a new bike to be released - but Genuine is being very tight-lipped.

Let's hope it isn't just another Buddy that they make a cool color for and deck it out with goodies like brakes and suspension and exhaust.

Elder Scoot · Post by **Elder Scoot** » Fri Dec 19, 2014 10:20 pm

KrispyKreme wrote:
Elder Scoot wrote:There are rumors circulating from the recent get together in Chicago that Genuine has a new bike to be released - but Genuine is being very tight-lipped.

Let's hope it isn't just another Buddy that they make a cool color for and deck it out with goodies like brakes and suspension and exhaust.

With the Blur being discontinued there is a gap in Buddy's line up for something bigger than the Buddy. Let's see.

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Sat Dec 20, 2014 4:54 am

KrispyKreme wrote:
Elder Scoot wrote:There are rumors circulating from the recent get together in Chicago that Genuine has a new bike to be released - but Genuine is being very tight-lipped.

Let's hope it isn't just another Buddy that they make a cool color for and deck it out with goodies like brakes and suspension and exhaust.

yeah, and throw a 300cc in that and lets see how that goes

/dreaming

k1dude · Post by **k1dude** » Sat Dec 20, 2014 5:32 am

Perhaps Philip McCaleb will start another scooter company and a 300 cruiser will be his flagship introduction. Not a bad move IMHO.

Neurotic-Hapi-Snak · Post by **Neurotic-Hapi-Snak** » Sat Dec 20, 2014 5:38 am

I'm still waiting on the Stella 200.

ravenlore · Post by **ravenlore** » Sat Dec 20, 2014 3:00 pm

Neurotic-Hapi-Snak wrote:I'm still waiting on the Stella 200.

I've said it before and I'll say it again; an automatic Stella 200- as far as I'm concerned- WOULD be the Genuine Cruiser. Ok, maybe not, but it would be a good start anyway...

Alexbv200 · Post by **Alexbv200** » Sat Dec 20, 2014 4:03 pm

Neurotic-Hapi-Snak wrote:I'm still waiting on the Stella 200.

You are going to wait a very long time......

KrispyKreme · Post by **KrispyKreme** » Sat Dec 20, 2014 8:32 pm

ravenlore wrote:
Neurotic-Hapi-Snak wrote:I'm still waiting on the Stella 200.
I've said it before and I'll say it again; an automatic Stella 200- as far as I'm concerned- WOULD be the Genuine Cruiser. Ok, maybe not, but it would be a good start anyway...

Agreed, but that's a vintage scoot. The LML Star200 is out there. The Scomadi makes so much sense. A vintage that can cruise at 70.....That's for you, Phil.

Neurotic-Hapi-Snak · Post by **Neurotic-Hapi-Snak** » Sat Dec 20, 2014 10:25 pm

ravenlore wrote:
Neurotic-Hapi-Snak wrote:I'm still waiting on the Stella 200.
I've said it before and I'll say it again; an automatic Stella 200- as far as I'm concerned- WOULD be the Genuine Cruiser. Ok, maybe not, but it would be a good start anyway...

Nope, manual all the way.

I don't think the Stella Auto is selling as well as hoped. I think most people who said they wanted an automatic vintage scooter actually meant they wanted a vintage looking modern automatic scooter, not a vintage scooter with an automatic. The Auto still rides and handles like a 40 year old design. I think it's aimed at an even more niche market than the 4T, people looking for a CVT scooter want all mod-cons, and people looking for vintage want an authentic manual, and the Stella Auto only appeals to the small overlap of people who are dead set on the looks, are able to put up with vintage quirks, but who don't want to shift.

ScooterDave · Post by **ScooterDave** » Sun Dec 21, 2014 6:01 am

k1dude wrote:Perhaps Philip McCaleb will start another scooter company and a 300 cruiser will be his flagship introduction. Not a bad move IMHO.

Will never happen.

ScooterDave · Post by **ScooterDave** » Sun Dec 21, 2014 6:02 am

ericalm wrote:Then the driving force behind it, Philip McCaleb, left Genuine.

You make it sound like he quit when in fact he was ousted.

Post by **ericalm** » Sun Dec 21, 2014 3:03 pm

Elder Scoot wrote:There are rumors circulating from the recent get together in Chicago that Genuine has a new bike to be released - but Genuine is being very tight-lipped.

I'm pretty confident there will be a new model out in 2015.

Elder Scoot · Post by **Elder Scoot** » Mon Dec 22, 2014 3:54 pm

Neurotic-Hapi-Snak wrote:
ravenlore wrote:
Neurotic-Hapi-Snak wrote:I'm still waiting on the Stella 200.
I've said it before and I'll say it again; an automatic Stella 200- as far as I'm concerned- WOULD be the Genuine Cruiser. Ok, maybe not, but it would be a good start anyway...
Nope, manual all the way.

I don't think the Stella Auto is selling as well as hoped. I think most people who said they wanted an automatic vintage scooter actually meant they wanted a vintage looking modern automatic scooter, not a vintage scooter with an automatic. The Auto still rides and handles like a 40 year old design. I think it's aimed at an even more niche market than the 4T, people looking for a CVT scooter want all mod-cons, and people looking for vintage want an authentic manual, and the Stella Auto only appeals to the small overlap of people who are dead set on the looks, are able to put up with vintage quirks, but who don't want to shift.

You hit it right on. I wanted a CVT with vintage looks but was not happy with the vintage ride. I traded my 2014 Stella auto for a Hooligan.