Modern Buddy

Any of you ride WOT for a long time? Where I ride I usually don't go WOT for more than 5-10 minutes between corners, but I read this on the Genuine website: "...cruising at 65 miles per hour on a 170 or 220cc scooter would be similar to cruising at 130mph in your car. These high speeds will shorten engine life and are not recommend for long periods of time." Makes sense. On the other hand I remember riding my 1973 Honda 100 WOT for over an hour on highways, about 9K rpm & it gave me thousands of trouble free miles. I don't question the quality of Buddy engines, I've read they're quite durable but I'm just curious what the upper limit is. Has anyone done long freeway rides maxed out for 50-100+ miles? Any problems? There's a few long 60-65 mph roads I may ride once I have a few more miles on my 170i.

The lower compression and power rating of a vintage Honda engine let's them run WOT all day and not break a sweat. The 150's and 170's have an oil cooler, but you need to run a temp gauge to be safe. And keep the oil topped up because it will blow some out at high RPM's.

The throttle or the egg?

If you are a highway sort of guy mayhaps you could get taller gearing?

I am not sure if they are available for your particular engine but thats one way to take the strain off as you aren't revving as high.

You will of course lose acceleration but everything in life is a trade off.

New2Scoots wrote:Has anyone done long freeway rides maxed out for 50-100+ miles? Any problems? There's a few long 60-65 mph roads I may ride once I have a few more miles on my 170i.

Leaving DFW? We have found with traffic around Dallas, you won't get more than a few miles WOT due to traffic congestion - even on Central.

Saturday would have been a good example, the North Texas Rain rally, I mean the 10th Annual North Texas Lakes rally was not WOT until we headed south to Maypearl riding into a 15 mph head wind and trying to maintain 60 plus. Even that couldn't have been more that 8-10 miles. The rain slowed most everything down, otherwise they sure got some great roads for riding 2 wheels in that area.

Seems we had about 8-9 Buddy scoots total and they did just fine.

My club-mate Howard rode his Buddy 150 WOT for something like 23 hours once (Other than the Fuel Stops).

JohnKiniston wrote:My club-mate Howard rode his Buddy 150 WOT for something like 23 hours once (Other than the Fuel Stops).

I take East 407 out of Lewisville & there's other roads that branch off that. Nice & twisty in some spots, others are pretty straight. I thought about doing 281 South sometime on a weekday when traffic's lighter. Way more scenic than I-35 when I'm not in a hurry. My home town's 270 miles south of here; New Braunfels. Moving back when I retire in 2017.

MYSCTR wrote:

New2Scoots wrote:Has anyone done long freeway rides maxed out for 50-100+ miles? Any problems? There's a few long 60-65 mph roads I may ride once I have a few more miles on my 170i.

Leaving DFW? We have found with traffic around Dallas, you won't get more than a few miles WOT due to traffic congestion - even on Central.

Saturday would have been a good example, the North Texas Rain rally, I mean the 10th Annual North Texas Lakes rally was not WOT until we headed south to Maypearl riding into a 15 mph head wind and trying to maintain 60 plus. Even that couldn't have been more that 8-10 miles. The rain slowed most everything down, otherwise they sure got some great roads for riding 2 wheels in that area.

Seems we had about 8-9 Buddy scoots total and they did just fine.

Oops, I quoted the wrong post & can't edit or delete it so here I go again. I take East 407 out of Lewisville & there's other roads that branch off that. Nice & twisty in some spots, others are pretty straight. I thought about doing 281 South sometime on a weekday when traffic's lighter. Way more scenic than I-35 when I'm not in a hurry. My home town's 270 miles south of here; New Braunfels. Moving back when I retire in 2017."
_________________

Most (all?) modern engines are controlled to not spin high enough to self destruct when properly maintained, cooled and lubricated.
RPM limiting items are valve springs, throttle body size (undersized) and electronic limiters.
Full throttle MAY reduce engine life but not by much.

New2Scoots wrote:Any of you ride WOT for a long time? Where I ride I usually don't go WOT for more than 5-10 minutes between corners, but I read this on the Genuine website: "...cruising at 65 miles per hour on a 170 or 220cc scooter would be similar to cruising at 130mph in your car. These high speeds will shorten engine life and are not recommend for long periods of time." Makes sense. On the other hand I remember riding my 1973 Honda 100 WOT for over an hour on highways, about 9K rpm & it gave me thousands of trouble free miles. I don't question the quality of Buddy engines, I've read they're quite durable but I'm just curious what the upper limit is. Has anyone done long freeway rides maxed out for 50-100+ miles? Any problems? There's a few long 60-65 mph roads I may ride once I have a few more miles on my 170i.

"long freeway rides" you mean like on the Interstates and other minimum 4 lane divided highways? Notwithstanding what others may claim, a bone stock Buddy 170i on the straight and level in a no-wind situation with a 170-190 lb. rider aboard is going to top out at a GPS confirmed 60mph. Maybe 61 absolute max. And, at those speeds those little 10" wheels and tires are going to be spinning their little heads off. Interstates and freeways? I don't think so especially when you're being passed by an 18 wheeler.

Bill in Seattle
'12 Italia 170i "The Olive Pit"
'08 Aprilia Sport City 250i.e. "Big Blue I"
'09 Sym Citycom 300i
'09 Sym Citycom 300i

Hello BuddyLand:

I ride urban freeways and local highways at WOT or near WOT for up to 20 minutes straight. On some longer future ride, I will try WOT for up to 45 minutes, then stop, turn off engine few minutes, then restart, and continue on.

I believe when atmospheric temperatures are cooler, the engine is less likely to get hotter and degrade long term. Not sure I would do 20 minutes WOT when it is 120F outside. Make sure your engine and gear oil is full, and other moving parts are properly lubricated. That should reduce potential engine and operational problems.

Sincerely
Rick71454
Portland Oregon USA

MYSCTR wrote:

New2Scoots wrote:Has anyone done long freeway rides maxed out for 50-100+ miles? Any problems? There's a few long 60-65 mph roads I may ride once I have a few more miles on my 170i.

Leaving DFW? We have found with traffic around Dallas, you won't get more than a few miles WOT due to traffic congestion - even on Central.

Saturday would have been a good example, the North Texas Rain rally, I mean the 10th Annual North Texas Lakes rally was not WOT until we headed south to Maypearl riding into a 15 mph head wind and trying to maintain 60 plus. Even that couldn't have been more that 8-10 miles. The rain slowed most everything down, otherwise they sure got some great roads for riding 2 wheels in that area.

Seems we had about 8-9 Buddy scoots total and they did just fine.

Hey I saw you there! I was on the orange and black buddy. Rain Rally is right. We didn't dry out until we hit springfield Mo.

WisKid wrote:If you are a highway sort of guy mayhaps you could get taller gearing?

I am not sure if they are available for your particular engine but thats one way to take the strain off as you aren't revving as high.

You will of course lose acceleration but everything in life is a trade off.

All numbers are GPS'd quoting stock speedo numbers is pointless. Mine was 11 mph off at 50 mph.

I have a set of 170i gears for my bike. A stock 125 will not pull them. Modded yes. Stock no. With the stock cylinder and ported stock head It would hit 49 mph on the flat. With the 161cc big valve combo it would hit 64 mph. But I also trashed the crank cruising at 8500 rpms at 55-58 mph. Sure it had the power and cooling to do so but running WOT with 250lb human on board is hard work for the engine. Top speed with 125 gears and the 161 BVH combo was 60 mph. Its not worth the lost accelleration.

When you shut down from a long full throttle ride, slow down for a while before shutting down to allow the engine to cool first. Sudden shut down will create a temperature spike.
Better yet, why shut down until you need to? It's not an animal that needs a break when it's tired...

lovemysan wrote:

MYSCTR wrote:Saturday would have been a good example, the North Texas Rain rally, I mean the 10th Annual North Texas Lakes rally… Seems we had about 8-9 Buddy scoots total and they did just fine.

Hey I saw you there! I was on the orange and black buddy. Rain Rally is right. We didn't dry out until we hit springfield Mo.

Bummer - would have liked to say hi - had to book Saturday to meet my wife in Richardson before more rain hit to escort her home. Once I got back to Dallas, took Lamar to downtown before jumping on 75 to Renner Road and I was still 10 minutes late. That was my wettest 245 miles ever!

AS mentioned above, I rode a stock Buddy 150 WOT a tad over 1000 miles on I-10 and I-20 stopping only long enough to fill the tank and ride on. This was essentially about an hour to 90 minutes at a time. The Buddy had no ill effects.

Other than that particular time, i have ridden other scooters, a Stella and 3 different Helixes at or close to WOT on numerous occasions. sometimes in temps well over 100 degrees and for 100+ miles at a whack. things here in AZ are far apart.

As far as I can tell, you can flog a Buddy at WOT daily and probably not have an issue as long as you are doing the proper maintenance. Watch your tires closely as well, since they won't last as long at those speeds, especially if you add hot weather into the mix. buddies are pretty bulletproof.

Howard

The big trick IMO is keeping oil in them . All the high quality scooters (buddies and vespas)I have seen grenade parts have been run low on oil Sometimes severe. Some of these bikes hold a quart of oil. The oil cooler helps , but oil is still the key.

I have owned 2 separate Buddy 125's in the past and I didn't like riding them WOT for more than 15-20 minutes at a time after the engines were broken in; I don't like running my big bike for more than 30 minutes above 65 mph (and it's liquid cooled) or my small bike above 55 mph for more than 30 minutes...I say this as a conservative rider;

I did a WOT run for @ 35 minutes when I still had my 2013 Buddy 125 and noticed an oil leak after sitting 10 minutes during a rest stop...looked underneath and the bottom of the engine case was coated in oil; luckily I had extra oil so I topped off (took @ 100cc) and carefully rode it home; the dealer indicated that the bolts that attach the oil filter adapter plate to the engine case worked loose;

so...keep extra oil with you, check oil level at each stop, top off as needed, and check tightness of the oil filter and adapter plate bolts; try to keep WOT runs to under 30 minutes if possible

On 2012 CBR I ran a vintage 2T motor WOT until it blew up...slapped another top end on it and kept going.

I have heard of very few Buddy failures...I think one blew a crank on CBR 2010 but that was run WOT all day for like 10 days straight. A couple of Buddys made CBR 2012 without any motor related problems. One had a stator failure but I think that was starting before the beginning.

If you do a lot of WOT not only tire but belt, roller, and variator life will be severely shortened.

just about to roll 15k on mine, and it's had some extended runs of WOT. As long as you change the oil and maintain it, should be OK, but I just don't like to wail on the poor thing.

Besides not really being 'safe' at high speeds (go ahead and try a panic stop....yikes!) it's just not as comfy. If you regularly need to go 60+mph, you're going to be a lot more comfy on a bigger bike.

Besides not really being 'safe' at high speeds (go ahead and try a panic stop....yikes!) it's just not as comfy. If you regularly need to go 60+mph, you're going to be a lot more comfy on a bigger bike.

agree...

if you do a lot of WOT not only tire but belt, roller, and variator life will be severely shortened.

keep a budget handy for replacement parts...

Untill my ears get tired, about 20 minutes... R

Sooner or later the gosh darn thing will get stolen or totalled so why worry about engine life?

I decided I'll use the Buddy for in town & riding the country roads in my area. Most are 45-60 mph & there are so many I find a new one every ride. These Buddies love corners! Makes my motorcycle feel like a school bus. I'll use the motorcycle for long highway rides instead of hammering my Buddy engine, especially in this summer heat.