Is my engine missing something?

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alexpa
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Is my engine missing something?

Post by alexpa »

I've been noticing the exhaust is sounding a little louder recently and inspected under my Buddy 170i for any leaks or cracks from the pipe. It looked intact (although I'm inclined to take it off for better inspection) but I noticed a 'port' that looks like it should be filled with something.

In the pic below, you are looking straight up through the center stand at the engine block. At the mid left and center is the exhaust going down towards the bottom and to the right the port in question.

Is anything supposed to be in there or does it look normal to you?

Thanks everyone!
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babblefish
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Post by babblefish »

Yes, there is something missing. There is suppose to be a pipe there that is part of the EGR system. It goes to a housing on the crankcase that is next to the cylinder barrel. I've removed the EGR in my scooter mainly because I installed a big bore kit which does not have provision for the stock PGO EGR system. I'll take a picture of the the pipe and post it later today.
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babblefish
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Post by babblefish »

OK, here are some pictures of what I was talking about. The housing circled in green is bolted to the crankcase in the location shown also in green. But, I just checked the drawings for a 170i Buddy and it looks like they may not use this setup. There's a blank-off plate where that housing should go. So the only thing I can think of is that there used to be a plug/blank-off in the hole you're showing, although no mention of one is shown in any of the drawings that I can find. Your exhaust is louder now because that open hole in the cylinder goes directly into the exhaust port, so basically, you now have an exhaust leak. Your best bet is to take it to a dealer to see if they can order you what it is that is suppose to blank that hole off.
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bikerbrewer
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port

Post by bikerbrewer »

It's a small thermal exhaust port, right below the main port. The shaft leads directly to the reactor system.

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alexpa
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Post by alexpa »

OK these are really great pictures. It stormed like crazy yesterday and is too hot right now to check it but I'll inspect the crankcase and look for any dangling pipes.

Thanks so much for looking that up for me! More details later...
New2Scoots
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Post by New2Scoots »

I just got under my 170i with a mirror & found the same thing. That part is missing. I've only had this a few months & bought it new. I won't ride it without the part because an exhaust leak can cause a lean condition that could potentially burn an exhaust valve. Especially on an air cooled engine when it's 100 degrees outside where I live. That sucks. I hope the canoe from Korea isn't slow, I want to ride.
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babblefish
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Post by babblefish »

As I mentioned earlier, the 170i engine doesn't appear to use the same EGR system as the 125/150 engines so there's a good chance that 1) a different head gasket is used on the 170i which blocks the cylinder hole from the head, or 2) the head itself does not have the EGR hole which means it doesn't matter if there's an open hole in the cylinder. Though there's still the question of why the increased noise...
I suppose if one were brave enough to put ones finger near that hole with the engine running to see if there is hot exhaust gas coming out of there...it would answer that question. Just don't burn yourself on the hot exhaust pipe too.
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KrispyKreme
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Post by KrispyKreme »

babblefish wrote: I suppose if one were brave enough to put ones finger near that hole with the engine running to see if there is hot exhaust gas coming out of there...it would answer that question. Just don't burn yourself on the hot exhaust pipe too.
To be absolutely accurate you should use your penis.
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Syd
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Post by Syd »

:fp:
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az_slynch
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Post by az_slynch »

KrispyKreme wrote:To be absolutely accurate you should use your penis.
Quoted because I know you're gonna edit and nobody will know why Syd is exaspirated.

Seriously, do you have Internet Tourette's or do you really enjoy being put into time-out?
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az_slynch
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Post by az_slynch »

babblefish wrote: I suppose if one were brave enough to put ones finger near that hole with the engine running to see if there is hot exhaust gas coming out of there...it would answer that question. Just don't burn yourself on the hot exhaust pipe too.
Simple suggestion: take a bit of aluminum foil, crinkle it up and lightly stuff it into the port. See if the exhaust note changes or it it blows the foil plug out.

I'm guessing that there's no exhaust pressure and that the hole isn't drilled all the way in. We don't seem to use secondary air system (SAS) on most bike sold in the states.
At what point does a hobby become an addiction? I'm uncertain, but after the twelfth scooter, it sorta feels like the latter...

Seriously...I've lost count...

Seven mopeds ...that's still manageable...
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babblefish
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Post by babblefish »

az_slynch wrote:
babblefish wrote: I suppose if one were brave enough to put ones finger near that hole with the engine running to see if there is hot exhaust gas coming out of there...it would answer that question. Just don't burn yourself on the hot exhaust pipe too.
Simple suggestion: take a bit of aluminum foil, crinkle it up and lightly stuff it into the port. See if the exhaust note changes or it it blows the foil plug out.

I'm guessing that there's no exhaust pressure and that the hole isn't drilled all the way in. We don't seem to use secondary air system (SAS) on most bike sold in the states.
I probably should have suggested doing this as it's much safer than the potential sacrifice of a limb, lol. Thanks. :oops:
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New2Scoots
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Post by New2Scoots »

I put my hand under it & started it up. Felt just very light puffs of air. I'd guess that more comes out at open throttle but I didn't want to put my hand under there when the engine's warmed up.
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thumper650
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Post by thumper650 »

So what's the verdict, I looked under Ibubu today, and I'm missing something too. I didn't feel anything coming out of the hole with my finger, and I don't have any other body parts that will fit in there so......

Are they all like this in the US, or do I really have to do something?
New2Scoots
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Post by New2Scoots »

I called my dealer to ask & they were closed. I'll try tomorrow. If not much air comes out at open throttle I'd guess it's ok to ride. I'm going to wait. I hope it's not a long wait for the part.
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thumper650
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Post by thumper650 »

Oh I'm still riding it. For all I know it was never there. But I'd be grateful if you'd let me know what you find out : )
Thanks
hewl35
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Re: Is my engine missing something?

Post by hewl35 »

Maybe its for California emissions only.
New2Scoots
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Post by New2Scoots »

I called my dealer & he wasn't sure what I was talking about so he asked me to text a pic to him. I didn't have a pic so I got a few tonight & I'll send them to him tomorrow. I guess they didn't have a 170i there to look at. He said whatever it is they can order it. I did notice it seemed louder lately & looked at the muffler & thought it must be my imagination. If it were threaded I could probably just put a bolt in & forget about it. Probably ok to ride, just waiting it out to be sure.
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2007 Suzuki 650 VStrom
2014 Honda NC700X

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babblefish
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Post by babblefish »

Did you check the exhaust header pipe to make sure it isn't loose (with engine cold, of course)? Though rare, maybe the nuts holding it on came loose.
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New2Scoots
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Post by New2Scoots »

babblefish wrote:Did you check the exhaust header pipe to make sure it isn't loose (with engine cold, of course)? Though rare, maybe the nuts holding it on came loose.
I didn't check initially but I did when I got under it for pics yesterday.
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2013 Honda Metro
2007 Suzuki 650 VStrom
2014 Honda NC700X

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New2Scoots
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Post by New2Scoots »

Called the dealer again & he looked under 2 Buddy 170i's on the show room floor. He saw holes on both but no tube. He looked at his parts diagram & saw no tube. I got under mine with a flashlight & saw that the hole was closed off. Then looked around where the other end should be & just found a flat piece of metal inboard of the front of the variator cover held on by 2 bolts. My guess is there may be an EGR tube for California models or some place with tighter emissions & the rest get the "no tube" version. If anyone sees a tube there under their 170i I'd be curious what state or country they bought it in. I'm just going to ride mine & I'm guessing the louder sound was my imagination or I just need to snug up some bolts from the exhaust header on back. Anyway, relieved! And ready to ride again.
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2013 Honda Metro
2007 Suzuki 650 VStrom
2014 Honda NC700X

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thumper650
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Post by thumper650 »

All bikes in MA are supposed to be CARB (California air resource board) certified so I would think MA and CA bikes would be the same. Unless by buddy was purchased in NH, I bought it used.
Thanks for the info.
alexpa
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Post by alexpa »

New2Scoots wrote:I just need to snug up some bolts from the exhaust header on back. Anyway, relieved!
Great work New2Scoots! Thanks for calling the dealer. I was going to head over to mine on Tuesday but it was raining pretty hard and was my only day off this week.

I read elsewhere that to diagnose an exhaust leak, you can put a wet towel over the end of the muffler and rev the engine a little. What should happen is a stall; if it does not stall, there is an alternate place where exhaust gasses are coming out.

I tried this last night, alone, and my buddy did not stall. In the morning, I'm hoping to grab a neighbor or coworker in the parking lot so they can rev it while I feel around underneath.

Alex
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Post by Icecreamman »

Found the hole (it’s open on mine) & this post last night & stuck an M8 bolt w/ a fender washer in there that covers it. Dang if the thing doesn’t sound less clicky & maybe feel a hair peppier.
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buzzvert
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Post by buzzvert »

I mean, in general I don't see any reason why you wouldn't just cover it. For nothing else, keeps mud out of there.
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Post by cummingsjc »

And the reason that this necro-thread from 2015 came back up was....?
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