Pros/Cons BV 350 vs. MP3 400

george54 · Post by **george54** » Fri Jul 10, 2015 7:31 pm

Hey guys/gals. In addition to my Buddy125 that's my wife's, I also very recently bought a Piaggio BV350 for myself. I love everything about it except the way the seat forces me too close to the windshield, but I can learn to live with that or fix it later.

My 'dilemma' is, that I've always been interested in the MP3 series, and I had been looking off and on, but never was able to find what I considered a nice enough example both cosmetically and mechanically. So now, of course! right after buying the BV, someone offers me a very nice MP3 400.
My BV is a 2013 with only 1400 miles, and the MP3 is 5 years old with 3000 on it. Money isn't a concern, I paid $4000 for the BV and the MP3 is offered to me for $3500.

So, is there anything really to gain or lose by switching or not switching to the MP3? I'm guessing it comes down to personal taste but am I missing something obvious and that matters? My riding is both local and also some highway to just get to secondary roads to explore. And maybe occasionally a 25 mile highway round trip to work. Thanks in advance for indulging me with this question!

babblefish · Post by **babblefish** » Fri Jul 10, 2015 8:29 pm

I'd say go for it, especially at that price. There's a 2009 MP3 250 for sale in my area for $6588, so you'll be getting a great deal. I really like the way the MP3 400 looks. It'll also be almost impossible to knock over when parked since you have to lock the front end in an upright position. I would have thought it'd give better wind protection, but it's really not much wider if at all compared to a normal 2-wheel scooter.

The only bad thing about it, I suppose, is that it's a bit bulky and does not have a reverse gear which can make parking a bit of a challenge without some preplanning.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Fri Jul 10, 2015 11:05 pm

The MP3 400 is quite a bit heavier than the BV350 and the two engines put out about the same power, so the BV is definitely the better performer. The MP3 is a complicated design. The bikes brought into the U.S. between 2007 and 2010 were prone to problems with the steering bearings and with the mechanics of the tilt lock system. Overall, the MP3 is mechanically and electronically more complex so can be more prone to problems than the BV. Very few U.S. Piaggio/Vespa dealers know much about the MP3 and it can be difficult to find someone to do capable service and repairs. The main advantage of the MP3 is the ability to lock the front suspension when not riding for ease of parking and rolling the heavy bike around. The twin front wheels should provide some advantages in cornering and on rough pavement, but I really have not noticed much difference in that regard while riding the two bikes. Neither bike fits a taller rider very well without modifying the seat. Many taller riders remove the bolster (insert) on the BV seat.

george54 · Post by **george54** » Sat Jul 11, 2015 12:59 pm

Thanks to both of you, you bring up good points. If I was hoping to make the decision easier for me, I can see it's not that easy!

pugbuddy · Post by **pugbuddy** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 9:35 pm

Piaggio BV350 for myself. I love everything about it except the way the seat forces me too close to the windshield, but I can learn to live with that or fix it later.

That's the one thing I don't care for with the BV350; the seat. I wonder if there is another seat option available anywhere? Has anyone ever looked into this?

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:54 pm

pugbuddy wrote:
Piaggio BV350 for myself. I love everything about it except the way the seat forces me too close to the windshield, but I can learn to live with that or fix it later.
That's the one thing I don't care for with the BV350; the seat. I wonder if there is another seat option available anywhere? Has anyone ever looked into this?

I had a seat redone at Pirate, raising and lengthening the front of the seat. It's not perfect (I should have gone with foam not gel) but it's miles better than stock.

george54 · Post by **george54** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 1:42 pm

Yeah, I have heard that some have had the "buttrest" removed from the middle of the seat which allows the rider to slide back a bit more. IDK how much that really opens it up, a seat rebuild may be necessary for more room.

Update on my situation. The "$3500" MP3 was upped by the seller to 3750. And mileage is now 3400. Not a deal breaker, but with the long distance involved, I was getting shipping quotes that were too high for my liking and my budget. Found another one that was also a possibility but that negotiation also failed.

Found still another long distance one at a dealership- a 2009 with only 120 miles on it. Older gent bought it, had heart attack and parked it. I agreed to $4K OTD with a complete service to be done. Right now I'm making certain they go through it properly and make sure everything works as intended before they ship it. The dealer also gave me a price for shipping to me- even palletized- for about 40% less than the quotes I was getting. So fingers crossed this deal goes through.

So now the plan is to get a MP3 while I still have the BV350, check it out to see if it's for me, and then decide which one's the keeper!

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 3:58 pm

pugbuddy wrote:That's the one thing I don't care for with the BV350; the seat. I wonder if there is another seat option available anywhere? Has anyone ever looked into this?

Beyond removing the bolster on the BV 350 (which a number of riders have done), the BV now comes with a redesigned seat which does not use the rigid bolster. I understand the seats are interchangeable.

babblefish · Post by **babblefish** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 8:54 pm

Sounds good george54. That's still a good price. Keep us updated on your purchase.
Used scooters around here usually sell at premium prices because demand far exceeds supply.

george54 · Post by **george54** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 9:11 pm

Thanks. Yes, the nicer ones, and it seems, MP3s in general are fairly scarce.

UPDATE---The dealer I had this deal with, and already sent the check to, now tells me there's only one black key. No red key. I haven't yet asked if it's even a factory key. I think I'm backing out of the deal. This is the third one I found that I was willing to buy and for one reason or another it fell through. Maybe its a sign that I should just keep the BV350.

skipper20 · Post by **skipper20** » Fri Jul 24, 2015 5:09 am

george54 wrote:Hey guys/gals. In addition to my Buddy125 that's my wife's, I also very recently bought a Piaggio BV350 for myself. I love everything about it except the way the seat forces me too close to the windshield, but I can learn to live with that or fix it later.

My 'dilemma' is, that I've always been interested in the MP3 series, and I had been looking off and on, but never was able to find what I considered a nice enough example both cosmetically and mechanically. So now, of course! right after buying the BV, someone offers me a very nice MP3 400.
My BV is a 2013 with only 1400 miles, and the MP3 is 5 years old with 3000 on it. Money isn't a concern, I paid $4000 for the BV and the MP3 is offered to me for $3500.

So, is there anything really to gain or lose by switching or not switching to the MP3? I'm guessing it comes down to personal taste but am I missing something obvious and that matters? My riding is both local and also some highway to just get to secondary roads to explore. And maybe occasionally a 25 mile highway round trip to work. Thanks in advance for indulging me with this question!

Don't know about NJ but here in WA state you need a special endorsement on your driver's license to ride a 3 wheeled scooter. The 2 wheel endorsement does not count. And, you have to get privately schooled in riding one as the state is no longer in the MC/scooter testing business 2 wheels or 3. So, check that out before you take the leap. Personally, I'd stay with the BV350. You just bought it so be satisfied with it as my late wife, may she rest in peace, used to tell me
Her advice was golden believe me..

Bill in Seattle
'12 170i Italia
'14 170i Hooligani

george54 · Post by **george54** » Fri Jul 24, 2015 1:50 pm

Right now, the three wheelers are treated just as two wheelers in NJ.
The whole- what type of vehicle? definitions for three wheel vehicle's evolution is happening faster than the state legislatures can act on them.

Seems like some three wheel vehicle manufacturers want to be grouped with autos for the sake of their owners not having to get a motorcycle license, but they also don't want to have to conform with autos crash safety tests. (Slingshot, Elio)

Sounds like your wife was wise and sensible like mine is. We are much better off having had them in our lives. My condolences for your loss.

sc00ter · Post by **sc00ter** » Sat Jul 25, 2015 2:50 pm

In Virginia we have a M2 motorcycle license for TWO wheel vehicles, or a M3 license for trikes/three wheel vehicles OR you get grandfathered in with a do-it-all M license for both if you already had it (me) or you can take both test and get a M. My wife has the M3 and has no urge to get on a two wheeler. My old butt got grandfathered in with my M class I have had since I was 17. That Honda 80 Elite, that I called the DEVO scoot with big energy dome stickers on the sides, had opened up the world to me so long ago.

george54 · Post by **george54** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 7:40 pm

babblefish wrote:Sounds good george54. That's still a good price. Keep us updated on your purchase.
Used scooters around here usually sell at premium prices because demand far exceeds supply.

Update --- The plot thickens as they say... The MP3 that I agreed to buy from the dealer for 4K, I sent payment. They did a service and built a pallet that completely encloses it for protection during shipment to me.

While I was going through my final checklist with them, it became apparent that they do not have the red master key. They even contacted the original owner and he searched and can't find it.
I at first considered this a deal killer. Now, they have proposed several solutions.

1- They say if I want to back out, they will refund my money minus $200 for their trouble of the service and the building of the pallet. (I think this is completely unfair, as they offered to do this free of charge and they should eat this cost and pass it along to whomever buys the scooter n the future...but we both remain unable to convince the other.)

2- They say they will have a Piaggio dealer change the ECU and immobilizer and produce two new keys, master included at no charge to me.

3- I can take the scooter as is with the one black key and they will refund me $800 of my $4K and I take the gamble that I won't someday have an issue.

Thoughts?

JohnKiniston · Post by **JohnKiniston** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 9:55 pm

I believe Scooter West can clone keys, You might have to send them the ECU and your key to do it.

I know there is a guy named Jim on the Modern Vespa forum that can clone keys.

You might be able to get a ECU that doesn't require the chipped keys too, I know they have it for the Vespa, I imagine they would have one for the MP3 too.

Post by **jrsjr** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:06 pm

george54 wrote:Now, they have proposed several solutions.

1- They say if I want to back out, they will refund my money minus $200 for their trouble of the service and the building of the pallet. (I think this is completely unfair, as they offered to do this free of charge and they should eat this cost and pass it along to whomever buys the scooter n the future...but we both remain unable to convince the other.)

2- They say they will have a Piaggio dealer change the ECU and immobilizer and produce two new keys, master included at no charge to me.

3- I can take the scooter as is with the one black key and they will refund me $800 of my $4K and I take the gamble that I won't someday have an issue.

Thoughts?

Honestly, at this point, I'd go for door number 2. Since you never had the "original" key in your possession, it won't be a loss to have a whole new set of keys and ECU and immobilizer. The only caveat I can think of is that ECUs have a life to them (and they're expensive), they don't wear out regularly like tires, but they do go sometimes, so I would hope the replacement ECU was new or low miles.

Good luck! This had been an interesting transaction to observe. I really hope it works out for you.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:46 pm

I think I would go for "door number 3" - $800 off the previously agreed price. AF1 Racing will clone the working black key for $30. Heck, get two while you are at it.

http://www.af1racing.com/store/Scripts/ ... duct=57189

george54 · Post by **george54** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 11:19 pm

I know jimh can clone the black key but I understand the real potential problem is not having the red master. That if the bike someday doesn't recognize the black key, you need the master to reset things. If that were to happen and you don't have a master, the only option is $1100 for a new ECU and immobilizer. At least that's how I understand it after reading the threads here and at MV.

Jrsjr, I know this is already past becoming like a soap opera, but I'm keeping everyone in the loop to pick their brains. I do appreciate yours and everyone's advice.

I'm really kinda split among the 3 options. Maybe leaning toward taking the $800 and gambling that I don't have a problem.

There's another mint one about a 7 hour ride from me and I do have a trailer...

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 3:08 am

george54 wrote: if the bike someday doesn't recognize the black key, you need the master to reset things.

Perhaps you should take a poll. Ask the question over on Modern Vespa as well as here. Who has had a Piaggio/Vespa immobilizer stop recognizing a programmed key that was previously functioning normally. I'll go first. Five Piaggio and Vespa scooters with immobilizers. Has never happened to me.

george54 · Post by **george54** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 12:51 pm

Thanks. It's sometimes difficult for a new person like myself to determine the extent of problems by reading forums. When there is a problem, it's talked about so much you can believe it's a big issue when it's really a very small probability.

That being said, I have to tell you that this very problem occurred with my 2011 BMW R1200RT. One day out on the road I went to start the bike to return home and it wouldn't recognize that my key was a genuine key and refused to start. It happened while it was still under warranty though, so I never saw a bill and don't know what it would normally cost, but I bet it would be every bit of $1000 if I had to pay for the fix.

I'm afraid I can't post on MV. It's a long story. I was treated very unfairly there. But I do read the threads.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 11:16 pm

george54 wrote:if the bike someday doesn't recognize the black key, you need the master to reset things.

I've been thinking about that scenario a bit more. If a black key is no longer recognized by the immobilizer, that would usually mean that the electronic chip in that particular key has been physically or electromagnetically damaged. If that occurred to one key, other clone black keys would still work. If the immobilizer lost the ability to communicate with any functioning black key, that would mean a malfunction of the immobilizer. I believe the remedy would be to replace the immobilizer/ecu, not simply program another key. And that is what evidently happened to your Beemer. Perhaps someone else who understands electronic keys will chime in and tell us whether that interpretation is correct.

george54 · Post by **george54** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 11:55 pm

I understand it exactly as you state it. And that's the scenario which is expensive- the immobilizer failing.

Oh well. I emailed them and said I'd take the scooter with the $800 refund.

For some reason I'm reminded of the Dirty Harry line " Do you feel lucky punk? Well, do you?"

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Wed Jul 29, 2015 3:29 pm

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Wed Jul 29, 2015 3:33 pm

george54 wrote:Oh well. I emailed them and said I'd take the scooter with the $800 refund.

So, worst case. The immobilizer fails and you have the $800 for repair. There is no reason this immobilizer is any more likely to fail than any other one. BV 350s have an immobilizer also.

george54 · Post by **george54** » Wed Jul 29, 2015 6:05 pm

Dooglas wrote:
george54 wrote:Oh well. I emailed them and said I'd take the scooter with the $800 refund.
So, worst case. The immobilizer fails and you have the $800 for repair. There is no reason this immobilizer is any more likely to fail than any other one. BV 350s have an immobilizer also.

That's my thinking too. If nothing bad happens I got the scoot for an amazing price. Thanks again for your help and advice. Maybe i'll have it in a few days and i'll give an update.

Modern Buddy

Pros/Cons BV 350 vs. MP3 400

Pros/Cons BV 350 vs. MP3 400

Re: Pros/Cons BV 350 vs. MP3 400