gas getting in oil

ucandoit · Post by **ucandoit** » Sat Aug 29, 2015 4:16 pm

Any ideas of why gas should be getting in the oil? The dipstick oil level slowly rises and I'm pretty sure it's gas. This scooter is used and has always had this problem. I had a mechanic adjust the carb. float height (was too high) . It runs pretty well, though still missing at times in lower rpms. The petcock was changed out and it tests good (currently). The vacuum hose from petcock seems dry, no gas. I did notice something, probably bad, when I first changed the oil and took a light and looked up into drain oil. On the right, there is a ragged hole, dime-quarter size, in the aluminum. I have no idea what that's about. Am thinking worst case scenario at this point and studying engine overhaul youtubes. LOL. Way over my head at this point. It's pretty useless changing the oil frequently just to have it contaminated with more gas. What kind of damage am I doing to the engine? I run the scoot maybe 5-10 miles/day--would like to go farther. When I go to the cities (minneapolis) I'll visit the mechanic at Scooterville. Would bad rings cause this? It has plenty of power. Is the carb. still too rich? God, I hope I win the free scooter Genuine is giving away in early Sept. I plan to choose the 170 Brit color. Fuel injection. LOL
The good news is that my fuse no longer keeps blowing. Just took things apart, tighten the horn switch, etc. and suddenly the problem is gone. Never found the short.

babblefish · Post by **babblefish** » Sat Aug 29, 2015 5:00 pm

I wouldn't worry about the hole you're seeing, it sounds like one of the holes cast into the case for the oil to get to the oil strainer.
If it actually is gas getting into your oil (probably is since what else could it be), it'll be because either your float level is still too high, some dirt got trapped in the float needle keeping it from closing, or the float needle itself is damaged and needs replacing. There is a remote chance that the float itself is damaged, but check it anyway just in case. If gas is leaking into it, it won't be able to close the needle efficiently. Whatever it is, definitely get it fixed because the gas will wash oil off the cylinder walls and bearings causing greatly accellerated mechanical wear.

ucandoit · Post by **ucandoit** » Sat Aug 29, 2015 8:43 pm

Thank you for the info. Am relieved about the hole issue. I, too, wonder if the carb. is still causing this problem. Do you think it would be enough to remove the carb., take it back to Scooterville, and have them check the float height, needle, floats again? Or, do I need to take the whole scoot to a motorcycle mechanic here in my town so they can adjust it and run it?
The scoot had a new carb. put in it about a yr. before I bought it and I noticed an extra jet in the storage compartment. Would the size of the jets matter in regard to this problem?

babblefish · Post by **babblefish** » Sat Aug 29, 2015 10:08 pm

I'm assuming you're talking about the main jet in which case it would have nothing to do with gas getting into the oil.
Yes, by all means have a qualified mechanic check the carb again to make sure everything is as it should be particularly the float needle. You said the carb was replaced: I hope it is either an OEM item or quality aftermarket because there are some questionable China made cheap carbs on the market. I'm kind of wondering why the original carb needed replacement in the first place. The OEM carb in my 2006 Blur is still in perfect condition even after approximately 16K miles. The insides are clean and shiny. I don't even use any additives in my fuel. Just straight premium gas.

ucandoit · Post by **ucandoit** » Sat Aug 29, 2015 10:42 pm

The seller kept saying he knew nothing about the scooter, except that he had a motorcycle friend put in a new carb. (it's now a couple of yrs. old). Oddly, they didn't bother to change the oil which was too thin & reeked of gas when I pulled the dipstick. I noticed this and still bought the scooter. I knew nothing about scooters and was told Buddy's are great and "if it runs, buy it." LOL. It's a keihin carb. I think. I knew I was taking a chance, and subconsciously I think I wanted to work on the scoot and learn about it. Am getting plenty of opportunity for that. LOL.
I'll take the carb. back to scooterville and make sure it's the right one for the Buddy 125 and have the mechanic check it over again. Am really slow understanding the float mechanism spatially. I should make myself learn this but I want to ride the darn thing.

babblefish · Post by **babblefish** » Sun Aug 30, 2015 1:31 am

Well, Keihin is the OEM for your carb so you should be good there. The float works basically like your toilet tank. A float moves up as the gas fills the float bowl and when the level reaches a set level, the float needle (which is attached to the float) closes off the flow of gas into the float bowl. When the engine is running and burning fuel, the fuel level in the float bowl drops which causes the float to drop, in turn opening the float needle allowing more fuel into the float bowl...and the cycle continues.
I know what you mean by just wanting to ride. There are a few things I want to do on my scoot, but the weather has been so nice that all I want to do is ride, lol. Hope the source of your problem is found soon.

ucandoit · Post by **ucandoit** » Sun Aug 30, 2015 7:13 pm

Thanks, Babblefish. I watched a good slow motion video of the float in action moving the little needle up into the seat and I have a better understanding of it. And I think I understand how to bend the tab up a little to lower the float height The Buddy, to my knowledge, does not give specifications on float height. There is also a test done by attaching clear tubing to the carb. drain nipple and while letting fuel in through the fuel port, you check to see how high on the tubing the fuel goes before the needle shuts it off. Think I'd need another set of hands to do that test.

babblefish · Post by **babblefish** » Sun Aug 30, 2015 7:43 pm

The float height is spec'd at 18mm +/- 0.5mm.

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 3:14 am

I see two ways gas could get into the bottom end. The needle valve in the CARB could be bad, allowing fuel into the cylinder while at rest or washed out or bad rings, allowing unburned fuel past the rings while running (and while resting to, if the needle is bad).

You said it runs ok, does it start hard?

sc00ter · Post by **sc00ter** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 1:01 pm

I had a low compression engine let gas past the rings and it died real quick. I bought it just for the engine cases (Honda Elite 250), and I was aware of the problem, but it was fun to see how long it could go. Check the compression on the cylinder, and since you mentioned that someone was in the carb-go thru it again with new/correct parts. One small problem could lead to one big problem if not fixed early!

Tocsik · Post by **Tocsik** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 3:51 pm

most likely culprit is your float/needle since it is a cause of allowing gas to drain out into the case and that was recently tinkered with on your bike.

ucandoit · Post by **ucandoit** » Tue Sep 01, 2015 12:45 am

Syd, and others. The scooter starts right up, no problem. Does that indicate good rings? I have not had the compression checked.
I plan to pull the carb,. and really inspect that float needle, and try to set the float height at 18mm. If I can't get the hang of that (don't have the measuring tool), I'll take the carb. to Scooterville mechanic. If it is the float height I could kick myself/ The mechanic did adjust it once and I thought that was that. I've never fully trusted the petcock as I had to replace it once, and the latest one failed me late last fall (very cold) when I went to ready the scooter for winter. I checked it recently and it worked, but I was all set to put a manual shutoff valve in the fuel line. So, I suspected the petcock, but trusted the carb. needle. Both of these are fixable. Thank you so much for all the support and info. It helps a lot.

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Tue Sep 01, 2015 3:18 am

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if it starts right up I would guess the needle isn't letting fuel into the cylinder. If it did it would be flooded and hard to start.

I may be wrong (again), but I think it's something else, maybe something we haven't mentioned even.