Unlucky gear oil change, stripped drain plug

Discussion of the Genuine Buddy, Hooligan, Black Jack and other topics, both scooter related and not

Moderator: Modern Buddy Staff

Post Reply
yarpa
Member
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:29 pm
Location: Santa Cruz, CA

Unlucky gear oil change, stripped drain plug

Post by yarpa »

(long story, question at the end) I have a buddy 170i, and decided I'd learn how to change the oil this weekend. It's been on my todo list for a while, and I no longer live near a dealer so it made sense. Changing the motor oil and filter went great.

The gear box oil change was also going well until I went to put the drain plug back in. I hadn't realized there was a crush washer on it (unknown to me it had fallen into the oil pan when I took it out), and I managed to strip the aluminum threads on the casing. I've been coming up with a variety of excuses, but it's too late now anyway.

I did some research, and decided to fix the threads by installing a helicoil (like this one on amazon, but a different brand https://www.amazon.com/OEMTOOLS-25628-M ... B004FEI24I). I was very careful with the drilling, using a shopvac to pull filings away. For tapping I backed the tap out every half turn or so and rinsed it in motor oil so shavings wouldn't end up in the box. I then screwed the coil insert in with the forked tool. So far so good.

The coil crosses its hole at the end (a "tang") so the installer tool has something to turn by. It's made to be snapped off with needle nose pliers after fully screwed in. My problem is that when I was snapping it off, it managed to shoot itself into the box when it snapped. I'm 95% sure it didn't snap off into the garage - the pliers came out clean. I've since fished around the perimeter of the box with some very strong magnets, and run ~800mL of automatic transmission fluid (thin cheap oil) through hoping to flush the scrap out. No luck.

So my question is how much damage can this little few-mm piece of steel wire do in the gear box if I were to leave it in? It's heavier than the oil so I'm hoping it'd just fall to the bottom, assuming it's not already jammed in something. I could also get one of those magnetic drain plug bolts to help it find its way down. Is it worth trying to open the gear box - and if so, what do I need to know before attempting that?

Thanks! Any advice is appreciated!
User avatar
DeeDee
Member
Posts: 1100
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:07 pm
Location: Denver

Post by DeeDee »

Page 73 shows how to remove the gear box cover. I'd pull it apart and make sure nothing is in there:

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B5htlAG ... BLb1U/edit
RickyDragon
Member
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2015 1:20 pm
Location: Cleveland

Post by RickyDragon »

Next time, just get a longer drain bolt. There are still threads above the stripped threads. I did this with mine. I stripped the threads using my original gear oil drain plug. I went to AutoZone and bought a longer one and no leaks.
GregsBuddy
Member
Posts: 509
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 9:36 pm
Location: North SF Bay

Post by GregsBuddy »

Time for a magnet in the drain hole bolt.
'09 Yamaha TMAX Large sport scoot.
yarpa
Member
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:29 pm
Location: Santa Cruz, CA

Post by yarpa »

DeeDee wrote:Page 73 shows how to remove the gear box cover. I'd pull it apart and make sure nothing is in there:

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B5htlAG ... BLb1U/edit
Ah ha, thanks! I see that section's the same as the 125 service manual, so that's good to know.

I need to take the rear wheel off anyway for a new tire, and it looks like that's most of the work for opening the gear box up, so that's what I'll do!
User avatar
JettaKnight
Member
Posts: 671
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 2:19 am
Location: Fort Wayne

Post by JettaKnight »

If you do split the case, you'll probably need to replace the gasket.
yarpa
Member
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:29 pm
Location: Santa Cruz, CA

Post by yarpa »

JettaKnight wrote:If you do split the case, you'll probably need to replace the gasket.
Thanks, good point! DeeDee's service manual link above doesn't mention replacing it (p. 73, or 77 depending on which page numbers you look at), so I thought there wasn't one. Looking more now, you're right, there's one clearly shown here: http://www.scooterloungeonline.com/genu ... y170iparts

I've been out of town so I haven't attempted to take it apart yet, but I'll call a dealer when I get back to see if they have a replacement, or will just order one off scooter lounge.[/url]
BoulderBud
Member
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 3:19 am
Location: Boulder, Colorado

Post by BoulderBud »

I just changed gear oil and think I must have stripped it because it won't tighten enough.
So, one response here says go to autozone and get a longer plug. Does anyone know the diameter and type of threads?

Also, is that a good solution or is a heli-sert or something else necessary?
paracer
Member
Posts: 172
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2015 1:58 pm

Post by paracer »

Rather than a longer bolt or helicoil, I would run a pipe tap and plug the hole with a 1/8" brass pipe plug. Mcmaster has em for about $1.50 a piece. If I'm not thinking right, it might need to be a bigger plug.

Not that the other options are bad.
User avatar
Wertles
Member
Posts: 52
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 2:46 pm
Location: Rochester, NY

Post by Wertles »

The best repair is with a Time Sert. The kit is a little costly but one repair and you will never have an issue ever again. I ordered mine from Amazon and it was in my shop in two days.

https://www.amazon.com/Time-Sert-M8x1-2 ... rt+m8x1.25
2012 125 Seafoam Buddy
2014 170i Matte Black Buddy
BoulderBud
Member
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 3:19 am
Location: Boulder, Colorado

Post by BoulderBud »

Thanks a bunch guys!

The time-set is only $80 for something that's better than original. Is it something I could do by myself with a regular drill? How involved and risky is it?

And the pipe tap and plug is a plastic insert that expands into the stripped threads, then screw in a new brass plug? Sounds like a good solution too! Easier and simpler, and for only a few bucks.
paracer
Member
Posts: 172
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2015 1:58 pm

Post by paracer »

For the pipe tap, no insert is used. Pipe threads have a taper that creates a tight seal. Just drill the proper size hole. Tap it. Then install the plug with a wrench.
User avatar
Wertles
Member
Posts: 52
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 2:46 pm
Location: Rochester, NY

Post by Wertles »

BoulderBud wrote:Thanks a bunch guys!

The time-set is only $80 for something that's better than original. Is it something I could do by myself with a regular drill? How involved and risky is it?

And the pipe tap and plug is a plastic insert that expands into the stripped threads, then screw in a new brass plug? Sounds like a good solution too! Easier and simpler, and for only a few bucks.

The Time Sert process is very easy. There are step by step directions in the package and video tutorials on their web site. I don't even think I used a drill. I think I did it all by hand. What I did need help with was having someone hold the scooter a little on its side to give me a little more working room. I went with the Time Sert because it is a permanent repair that I will never have to worry about again. I have had too many failures with a helicoil and such to ever use one again. A rear gear set would be much more expensive in the long run if I had a small leak that I didn't notice in time (well, my wife not notice in time).

These things are so strong, I just ordered a kit to fix the stripped out lug bolts on my tractor. Not a stockholder, but man, you just can't beat these things.
2012 125 Seafoam Buddy
2014 170i Matte Black Buddy
BoulderBud
Member
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 3:19 am
Location: Boulder, Colorado

Post by BoulderBud »

Problem solved! Hopefully. I will keep an eye on things for a while.

Thanks to all of you who responded. Especially Rickydragon with his suggestion to simply use a longer bolt. This time I put some anti-seize stuff on the bolt. So far, so good. Back on the road again!
User avatar
BlackRider125
Member
Posts: 28
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 2:52 pm
Location: Oceanside, CA

Post by BlackRider125 »

I did the same thing to mine today - when I was taking it out I cranked the wrong way and it just kept twisting.

So Boulder, is it really easy enough to take the bolt in and get a larger one at autozone? Where did you get it?

I really hope so!
User avatar
BlackRider125
Member
Posts: 28
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 2:52 pm
Location: Oceanside, CA

Post by BlackRider125 »

Nevermind - I copied this hack and it worked!

I went to autozone today and bought a M8 1.25 16mm flange bolt to replace the M8 1.25 12mm flange bolt and then I purchased a soft metal 5/16 washer (M8 equivalent). Came home, and daubed a q-tip gently up in the case with a little gear oil on it looking for any more loose shavings and got two small flecks. could not get any more, so then I threaded the new bolt and washer on and it fit like a glove! Went for a ride and no leaks!

I would be in real trouble without this thread - so I wanted to say thank you again!!!!
BoulderBud
Member
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 3:19 am
Location: Boulder, Colorado

Post by BoulderBud »

Nice going Oceanside!! It's nice to be self sufficient. Thank Rickydragon, it was his idea!
I remember getting my bolt at McGuckins. I'll be a little nervous next time I change the oil. If it strips again I suppose I'll get one size longer:)
Post Reply