I think I broke my Buddy 50?

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COBuddy
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I think I broke my Buddy 50?

Post by COBuddy »

I had some work done on my scooter by a mobile mechanic (scooter wouldn't even start so I needed someone to come out). He did a great job, noted that the tread on my tires was getting low, but that he could not replaced under the terms of his insurance. So I ordered a new set, and planned to remove the wheels myself and take everything down to the local scooter repair store to have them seat the new tires.

Here's where I screwed up.

When I removed the wheels, I had the scooter up on its stand. I loosed the exhaust pipe to access and remove the rear wheel, then started on the front wheel. When I was tugging on one of the bolts on the front wheel, the scooter became unstable and the center-stand came down, so the scooter landed on what I now presume was the exhaust pipe, however I didn't notice anything eschew. Not really realizing anything was wrong, I just left the scooter where it was and took the wheels into the shop.

When I reinstalled the wheels I noticed that the exhaust was now two inches to the left of where it was supposed to be, but no matter how I tugged on it, it wouldn't go back into place. I figured something was very wrong at this point, so I cautiously started up the scooter and discovered that even though the muffler was connected, it seems like all of the exhaust was coming out of the point where it connects to the cylinder, and it was VERY loud.

How badly did I mess up? I've now been able to re-align the exhaust, and I tightened down the bolts where it connects to the cylinder, but to no avail--I think something is irreparably bent, and I'm afraid it might be the cylinder itself (hence--why I think I broke my scooter). I included a photo of the juncture that is damaged and where the noise is emanating.

Despite my apparent ineptitude evident in this post, I'm not entirely mechanically incompetent, so is this something I can fix or do I need to leave this to the experts? Thanks! (Re the images below, note one of the bolts is missing and I have no idea what the orangey-pink goo is).
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cummingsjc
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Post by cummingsjc »

Did you replace the exhaust gasket? That could be causing the exhaust leak. Is it possible that you broke the threaded rods that come off the engine case and the exhaust is not properly sealing? Check those and then take it to a dealer.

In the future, just take the exhaust completely off the bike when trying to access the rear wheel.
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DeeDee
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Post by DeeDee »

Spray those two studs coming out of the engine block with penetrating oil. Let it sit for a while. Remove the exhaust nuts, remove the bolts holding the rear muffler onto the swing arm. Clean all that goo off there. Look for a round gold ring about 1/8" thick, about the diameter of a half dollar. This is your exhaust gasket. Look at the two threaded studs coming out of the engine block. Are they straight and in good shape? No cracks? Look the pipe over especially where it connects to the muffler. Any cracks, bends, etc...?

The exaust nuts are 10mm, the hardware on the rear of the bike is 12mm.

When you reassamble, start the scooter and block the tail pipe with your hand in order to stop air flow. Be sure to do this right away before the muffler gets hot. If you have a leak this will magnify it.
A dab of anti-seize on the exhaust studs wouldn't hurt either. Be careful not to over tighten.
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Look for this up in the engine block.
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DeeDee
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Post by DeeDee »

I just looked at the pictures again. Is the rear exhaust stud completely gone? You're going to have to remove the exhaust, lay the scooter on a moving blanket on it's side and extract what's left of that bolt. I'd drain the gas, oil reseroir and gear oil before doing this.
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babblefish
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Post by babblefish »

DeeDee wrote:I just looked at the pictures again. Is the rear exhaust stud completely gone? You're going to have to remove the exhaust, lay the scooter on a moving blanket on it's side and extract what's left of that bolt. I'd drain the gas, oil reseroir and gear oil before doing this.
This is what I was thinking when I looked at the pictures. If that exhaust stud is broken, that would definitely cause an exhaust leak.

BTW: that orange goo looks like Permatex silicone gasket sealant. Not the best thing to use in place of a proper metal exhaust gasket. Looks like a hack got to your scooter sometime in it's past.
Some people can break a crowbar in a sandbox.
COBuddy
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Thank you!!!

Post by COBuddy »

To all of you, thank you so much for the information!! I think it's probably a combination of all the issues you pointed out. I do not recall seeing a gold ring, so I think that's missing. Also, yes, one of the studs is missing, which is something I noticed when I reconnected the exhaust.

So you think that the rest of the stud is still connected to the cylinder? Unfortunately the hack who would have put that gunk in place of the ring is the local dealer, so I'm reticent to take it in to them, but I'll definitely order a new gasket ring and try and fix the missing stud, and see what that does.

Thank you wonderful scooter people!!!
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joebug
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Post by joebug »

if the dealer did that ...that's a crime! It seems the dealer knew the stud was broken off so they tried gooping it up with gasket cement rather than drilling out the exhaust stud that is probably broken off in the head. I doubt what you did broke that stud off or you would have seen the stud on the floor, you probably jarred it enough for the cement to lose its seal for the leak to become evident. You might get lucky and be able to drill it out by laying the bike on it's side but sometimes those exhaust studs are really stuck in there and you need to get the proper angle to drill into the stud and use an extractor to twist it out. Worse case is that you will need to remove the head and put it on the bench to remove that stud... if you're real lucky, you might find there is enough of a nub sticking out that you can grab it with a vise grip and spin it out. other wise if you're unfamiliar with extracting bolts here is the procedure... by the way any mechanic shop should be able to remove that stud if you dont want to tackle it yourself or bring it to the dealer that created that mess to begin with...
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BuddyRaton
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Post by BuddyRaton »

The exhaust does not attach to the head. The remains of the stud if broken will be in the cylinder at the exhaust port.

You may be able to get it wit the method above, however more often, especially with exhaust studs, is that the extractor will break before the threads begin to back out the broken stud.

If it is broken I would suggest removing the head and the cylinder. Take it to a shop or a welder. A welder will be able to TIG a bolt on top of the broken stud and back it right out. Probably about 25 or 30 bucks.

This is a good reason to use something like neverseize on fasteners that are exposed to high torque or high heat.
"Things fall apart - it's scientific" - David Byrne
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'06 Cream Buddy 125, 11 Blur 220, 13 BMW C 650 GT, 68 Vespa SS180, 64 Vespa GS MK II, 65 Lambretta TV 175, 67 Vespa GT, 64 Vespa 150 VBB 64 Vespa GL
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DeeDee
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Post by DeeDee »

BuddyRaton wrote:If it is broken I would suggest removing the head and the cylinder. Take it to a shop or a welder. A welder will be able to TIG a bolt on top of the broken stud and back it right out. Probably about 25 or 30 bucks.
If you're doing all this, you might as well install a BBK while you are at it.

You lose nothing by trying to extract it yourself. Drain all fluids as I mentioned before. Lay it on it's side on a thick comforter or moving pad.
Buy a left hand drill bit. Use an eye dropper to fill the threads with penetrating oil. Use BP blaster, mix 1:1 ATF with acetone, or something similar. Flood the threads a couple of times and let it set overnight. There is a good chance the broken stud will come off when you are using the left hand bit to drill it out. If not, move on to an easy out.
If it snaps like BR thinks it might, then move on the costlier more time consuming route.
Try this first.
Once you remove the exhaust, is any of the stud sticking out proud of the cylinder?
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joebug
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Post by joebug »

thanks for the correction, I forgot it was a 50cc 2T....exhaust does not attach to the head.
These are all great ideas... hopefully he can get it done!
COBuddy
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Many Thanks!!

Post by COBuddy »

Wow, this feedback and the detail is incredible, I can't tell you how grateful I am for the guidance. I'll take a stab at the first free chance I get and post an update. Again, you all are wonderful people, sending happy thoughts and karma your way...
:)
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DeeDee
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Post by DeeDee »

You should edit your profile to show your location. Are you in Colorado?
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BuddyRaton
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Post by BuddyRaton »

DeeDee wrote:
If you're doing all this, you might as well install a BBK while you are at it.
That's the way I would go!
"Things fall apart - it's scientific" - David Byrne
www.teamscootertrash.com

'06 Cream Buddy 125, 11 Blur 220, 13 BMW C 650 GT, 68 Vespa SS180, 64 Vespa GS MK II, 65 Lambretta TV 175, 67 Vespa GT, 64 Vespa 150 VBB 64 Vespa GL
ucandoit
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Post by ucandoit »

Wow. Your story just gave me a reality check about thinking I would try removing my wheels to have a shop put on new tires. I was going to ask how difficult removing both wheels would be.
cummingsjc
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Post by cummingsjc »

ucandoit wrote:Wow. Your story just gave me a reality check about thinking I would try removing my wheels to have a shop put on new tires. I was going to ask how difficult removing both wheels would be.
It is not difficult to remove either wheel as long as you have the bike up on the center stand, are methodical and careful in taking off parts, and have the right set of basic tools (an impact wrench helps with the rear wheel nut). Do one wheel at a time, take pictures of your work at each step for reference when putting it back together, and don't rush it and you will have no problem.
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joebug
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Post by joebug »

So, what ever happened with the repair?
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