Modern Buddy

I bought the stage two performance kit for my buddy 125 from scooterworks. I am also going to buy the trans kit and other stuff later. I am having the kit installed next week and I am wondering what kind of improvement to top-end and acceleration I will see.

My scooter is a 2015 with 2018 miles on it, I put the last 500 on after buying it last month. I get about 50mph top end using my buddies cars speedometer to test. he said I was going 55 at one point but I am unsure. (I am in California and was told that due to emission controls the engines are "plugged up" and don't go quite as fast as the non California scooters.)

If anyone has bought and used this kit on their buddy 125 please let me know how it turned out. My dealer is going to do the installation and tuning for me.

I searched the forums for days and have found no solid answer to this question and the guy at scooterworks and my dealer have been pretty vague about it when I ask. I got the nyc exhaust instead of the prima as the guy at scooterworks told me it would allow more air flow.

The spring is 2000RPM and the rollers are 9.5 or 10.5 grams.

https://www.scooterworks.com/Performanc ... P8800.aspx Stage two kit

It also comes with this
https://www.scooterworks.com/Performanc ... P8799.aspx

And this is the exhaust:
https://www.scooterworks.com/NCY-Perfor ... -P286.aspx

Welcome to Modern Buddy Quatodex.

First, as far as I know, only the 50cc scooters are restricted. Your 125 should be fine.

To get a better idea of what your top speed is, install a GPS speedometer app in your cell phone and check it that way. Probably a little more accurate than pacing a car. With a fully broken-in engine, a 125cc Buddy should be able to hit at least 55 mph, GPS. I think some have said they've seen better than that. Your engine is barely broken-in, so maybe with a few more miles the top speed will improve.

To be honest, I don't think an exhaust system is going to give you much, other than more noise. PGO designed their exhaust systems pretty well.
As far as the rest of the upgrades, the 2000 rpm contra spring might give the scoot better acceleration, but may hurt the top speed a little. Lighter rollers will allow the engine to rev higher into it's power band before the variator plate starts to move. The 161cc BB will give the engine a little more horsepower and torque, which again should improve the acceleration. It may also improve the top speed a little depending upon the terrain you're riding on. In other words, if there are any hills involved, the engine will be able to get to and hold a higher top speed a little easier.

Basically, in order to get an significant jump in top speed, the engine must be able to rev higher with a power band to match. Or, change the gear ratio in the gearbox for one that favors a higher top speed with a little sacrifice in acceleration. More horsepower and torque certainly helps, but only to a certain degree if one or both of the above two criteria are not met. Power to weight ratio is important, too. In other words, a 125cc bike will not perform as well with a 250+lb rider vs a 150lb rider.

Good luck with your Buddy, they're tough little scooters and are a lot of fun, regardless of how fast you're going.

A 125 is a 125 - upgrading to a 161 kit will give you more grunt and some more MPH. I've ridden one where it had all the upgrades done, and it was fun. More growl to the engine, and the acceleration was great. But it was still a 161cc. If we really wanted to go fast, we would be getting CBR1000's

Ask PAracer on this forum, he recently just did the kit on his.

I spent a buttload at 10k miles.

I have sliders, and ncy shock/trans setup, and the Prima pipe.

Is it nice and a bit faster? yes. If you're doing the work yourself it might be fun.

But as someone who chased the tail of the Dragon that performance, I'd suggest mostly putting in Dr. Pulley's and enjoying the Buddy for what it is. The pipe sounds nice and it feels a little more open, but I bet on a dyno it's negligible at best.

You can pimp it out all day long, and some people love to do that. It'll handle it. But going 75mph on 10" wheels, while fun, is something I would now rather do on a bigger bike.

Since a good used motorcycle can be had for $2500 these days, if you want a lot more oomph I'd save it for that, and the Buddy can live a long healthy life as a commuter.

Could I just buy a larger, 250cc, motor? Are there specific kits for the transmission and engine that will allow me to see that speed.
I cannot afford another scooter and I desire to travel at 70mph.
Would you be willing to help me figure out what I would need to do? I would really appreciate it.
I think that the bigger cylinder I bought and the new transmission kit that I have yet to purchase are a good start. I was thinking about the big head with aluminum valves and a better carb would be next. That is all I could glean from the searching I did.
I saw that one man claims 88mph on a 125. He seemed to know what he was talking about and I barely understand the fundamentals. I think that thread was from 2009.
I hate knowing that I am lucky to hit 55 and often only see 50.
I will WOT with the app you mentioned for my phone and report the top end here.
It seems that the engine performs better after traveling 20-30 miles at a good clip. It is then that I see 55 instead of 50.

Thanks for all the advice.

Quatodex wrote:Could I just buy a larger, 250cc, motor? Are there specific kits for the transmission and engine that will allow me to see that speed.
I cannot afford another scooter and I desire to travel at 70mph.
Would you be willing to help me figure out what I would need to do? I would really appreciate it.
I think that the bigger cylinder I bought and the new transmission kit that I have yet to purchase are a good start. I was thinking about the big head with aluminum valves and a better carb would be next. That is all I could glean from the searching I did.
I saw that one man claims 88mph on a 125. He seemed to know what he was talking about and I barely understand the fundamentals. I think that thread was from 2009.
I hate knowing that I am lucky to hit 55 and often only see 50.
I will WOT with the app you mentioned for my phone and report the top end here.
It seems that the engine performs better after traveling 20-30 miles at a good clip. It is then that I see 55 instead of 50.

Thanks for all the advice.

it's not just the motor. All the other components of the bike need to go along. Keep in mind, the nicest tires around aren't rated for that speed. while modern chemistry is amazing, physics say it is possible for the tires to just delaminate and fail. If that happens at 55+ on the buddy, well....it won't be good. YOu'd want upgrade brakes, lines, shortened belt life, heavier variator wear. Yes, there are people that have done crazy things on the Buddy, but they don't do them every day. Likely it's not their commuter vehicle, but more of a fun toy/hobby.

For the money you'd put in to get it up to that speed, my suggestion would be to not use the buddy, but rather a 250cc+ motorcycle. Those machines are designed for this use, and will do so reliably with a little work. running a hot-rodded buddy at full throttle all the time would require a lot of maintenance, and even the best say you need to be able to do things like rebuild the motor fairly often.

Maxi scoots also exist, but tend to cost more.

Sorry if that takes some of the wind out of your sails, but I think you'd end up spending a LOT of money for a minor amount of return. In the end, it might last a season or two, and then you have to spend that again.

The parts alone that I spec'd out for a solid racing build would be close to $800, without the labor to install it. I don't have the ability to install it or maintain that, and I rely on having mine the vast majority of the time.


A stock buddy will last a really long time.

With the traffic on the roads I drive I don't feel safe at the speeds the scooter is currently capable of. I may be able to trade it up in the future but for now I will use the parts I purchased and look into more as this scooter is not meant to be my primary transportation for too long.

Is it possible to safely install a 250cc motor on a buddy 125?

Any tips on parts would be appreciated.

Thanks again.

never heard of it. probably too small of a frame and parts.

The 161 kit, big valve head, carb, cvt and such are the only parts I have seen added.

My bike all stock would hit 51mph. 240lb rider. I had another that hit 52-53 ish. You won't reliably hit 70mph. You will trash the crank in a short amount of time. The 161cc kit alone won't seriously improve top end because the stock 125 head has tiny valves. I suspect the 2000 rpm spring and 9.5 gram weights won't work very well. I tried a 1500 rpm spring with 10.5 gram sliders when I first installed my 161 kit and it was too much rpm. For me to hit 65 mph I had to do 161cc, big valve head+taida springs+titanium retainers+port n polish, camshaft, intake mods, modified prima pipe. I have a wide band o2 sensor for tuning. I added an intake and pod filter and hit 72 mph running the tail of the dragon last year. But I'm on my second crank and it's on borrowed time. And the 88 mph buddy, I don't believe it.

I have the Prima Stage 1 kit on my Buddy. The pipe and main jet may not create a power increase that is measureable on the dyno, but the engine is definitely more responsive.

80+ mph is possible on a Buddy, just stick a 250cc with a big bore kit in it.

http://www.modernbuddy.com/forum/topic15796.html


I would be happy if Genuine would make a 200cc Buddy.

Quatodex wrote:Could I just buy a larger, 250cc, motor? Are there specific kits for the transmission and engine that will allow me to see that speed.
I cannot afford another scooter and I desire to travel at 70mph.
Would you be willing to help me figure out what I would need to do? I would really appreciate it.
I think that the bigger cylinder I bought and the new transmission kit that I have yet to purchase are a good start. I was thinking about the big head with aluminum valves and a better carb would be next. That is all I could glean from the searching I did.
I saw that one man claims 88mph on a 125. He seemed to know what he was talking about and I barely understand the fundamentals. I think that thread was from 2009.
I hate knowing that I am lucky to hit 55 and often only see 50.
I will WOT with the app you mentioned for my phone and report the top end here.
It seems that the engine performs better after traveling 20-30 miles at a good clip. It is then that I see 55 instead of 50.

Thanks for all the advice.

You have the wrong bike if you want to go 70 MPH safely and securely. Throwing parts and money at a small-framed Buddy is never going to turn it into a competent freeway cruiser.

If regular 70 MPH performance is essential to you, then sell the Buddy and find yourself a good used motorcycle or maxi-scooter.

There's no replacement for displacement.

If you want to commute at 70 mph sustained, you need a larger engine. 250 cc is even pushing it depending on the bike. You'd probably be better off with 350 cc to 500 cc.

I would suggest selling the Buddy 125 and buy a bigger bike.

I don't think I'd want to ride at a sustained 70 on a Buddy. My sense of self-preservation would be kicking in pretty quick...

I have a 161 kit, big bore head, Prima exhaust, roller weights, stiffer counterspring, higher RPM clutch, etc, etc.

Basically, if there's a mod, I've got.

So how fast? I can comfortably cruise around 60 mph (close to 70 bmph).

That's fast enough for any city street and most highways. Anything faster is unsafe on 10" wheels, IMHO.

If your scooter is not fast enough for the route, find another route and enjoy the ride.

scootERIK wrote:80+ mph is possible on a Buddy, just stick a 250cc with a big bore kit in it.

http://www.modernbuddy.com/forum/topic15796.html


I would be happy if Genuine would make a 200cc Buddy.

That thread brings back memories.

No offense Quatodex, Kaos knew what the hell he was doing. I don't infer that you have the same level of mechanical expertise or riding experience to get to that level.

The dealer installed kit should give you enough to survive in any city traffic.

Thanks for all of the info. The reason I bought the buddy in lieu of a bigger bike is because the dealer indicated that it would travel at 65mph. When I confronted him he told me scooter speedometers were optimistic and he meant the indicated speed. I'll be fine with 65, thanks for the list ilovemysan, do you know if scooterworks does port and polish and if they are any good at it? If not do you know a mail order dealer who does? I live in CA and you can't buy those parts here.
Thanks again.

skully93 wrote:
Keep in mind, the nicest tires around aren't rated for that speed. while modern chemistry is amazing, physics say it is possible for the tires to just delaminate and fail.

That is why it is important to use proper tires. There are several high speed rated 10-inch tires.

http://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/produ ... +_30300000

BuddyRaton wrote: That is why it is important to use proper tires. There are several high speed rated 10-inch tires.

http://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/produ ... +_30300000

oh! there are some scoot tires for that!

Pretty pricey though.

Stock gps speed is 53 flat ground and exactly 60 downhill with the wind at my back.

I'm glad this thread was started. I was debating on doing the stage 2 kit to my buddy but after hearing what everyone is saying I'll just hop on my 883 sportster if I want the additional speed. I am still contemplating the prima exhaust though...

Remous wrote:I'm glad this thread was started. I was debating on doing the stage 2 kit to my buddy but after hearing what everyone is saying I'll just hop on my 883 sportster if I want the additional speed. I am still contemplating the prima exhaust though...

The prima sounds nice, and it does let it breathe a bit.

DeeDee has a reasonably priced one to sell (that used to be in my parts bin no less). It's never been mounted. Mine is still going strong after a lot of abuse and 10k miles.

All,
My needs are a bit different. I don't need the scooter to go faster necessarily, I just need it to maintain the same speed with hills and wind.
Getting a bigger bike isn't an option because my GF needs a tiny bike. Finding a slower route isn't an option where I live because once we get out of the city the options are either highway (55 mph) or dirt/ gravel.
It needs to keep up with the flow of traffic and it needs to be this bike.

So... what are the best options for getting more torque in a reliable package? Is the Prima 161cc kit a good choice?

Thanks,
-Slashy

The 161 is a good choice. Also recommended is the NCY large valve head. With the head, it is wise to do a little work with the ports to clean things up and smooth out the flow. It would also be good to get a larger rear tire; the 103/70-10 is a taller tire. This combo (161, large valve head, and taller tire) will provide more power and drop the rpm a bit at higher speed.

If you do this and find that you need just a little bit more, then you might try a larger carb, opened up intake, and a Prima exhaust.

Lots of people like Dr. Pulley sliders and claim that they will pick up a little top end speed.

I agree with you about wanting the bike to not necessarily be faster outright, but to be happier at higher sustained speeds.

GoSlash27 wrote:All,
My needs are a bit different. I don't need the scooter to go faster necessarily, I just need it to maintain the same speed with hills and wind.
Getting a bigger bike isn't an option because my GF needs a tiny bike. Finding a slower route isn't an option where I live because once we get out of the city the options are either highway (55 mph) or dirt/ gravel.
It needs to keep up with the flow of traffic and it needs to be this bike.

So... what are the best options for getting more torque in a reliable package? Is the Prima 161cc kit a good choice?

Thanks,
-Slashy

While a bigger bore will increase torque, your biggest gain would come from a longer stroke crank. They are available in +2, 4, 6, and 8mm. There might be some clearance issues between the crank and crankcase with the +8mm stroker, but nothing that a bit of grinding won't fix. I run a +4 in my Blur and the increased torque is very noticeable on the hills of San Francisco. Thinking about going to a +6 or 8 in the future. The only problem with a longer stroke is you're also limiting the engines' upper RPM range. Basically, an overbore engine (bore larger than the stroke) allows an engine to rev higher and make more HP, while an underbore engine (bore smaller than the stroke) limits how high the engine can rev, but increases its' low-RPM torque.

Quatodex wrote:With the traffic on the roads I drive I don't feel safe at the speeds the scooter is currently capable of. I may be able to trade it up in the future but for now I will use the parts I purchased and look into more as this scooter is not meant to be my primary transportation for too long.

Is it possible to safely install a 250cc motor on a buddy 125?

Any tips on parts would be appreciated.

Thanks again.

No such animal as a 250cc GY6 engine. The biggest is 235cc using a "B" type crankcase. The Blur 220i uses a long "B" case, but has a shorter stroke crank hence "only" 220cc. There are short versions of the "B" case available and it should bolt right into a Buddy frame, but I'm not too sure about rear wheel, shock, and brake compatibility. I've been thinking it would be interesting to bolt a long case GY6 into a Buddy for the longer wheelbase. Might improve the stability at higher speeds.

A lot of things are possible, much of it depends on how deep your pockets are. If you're not mechanically inclined, then your pockets better be pretty deep...

skully93 wrote:

Remous wrote:I'm glad this thread was started. I was debating on doing the stage 2 kit to my buddy but after hearing what everyone is saying I'll just hop on my 883 sportster if I want the additional speed. I am still contemplating the prima exhaust though...

The prima sounds nice, and it does let it breathe a bit.

DeeDee has a reasonably priced one to sell (that used to be in my parts bin no less). It's never been mounted. Mine is still going strong after a lot of abuse and 10k miles.

I wish I could find someone close to me that has one to hear it in person. I've watched youtube videos but that doesn't help at all. I can't tell much of a difference in the videos. If I went with the prima exhaust I'm sure I can paint it correct? I've blacked out my seafoam and the chrome exhaust would stick out like a sore thumb, would have to plasti-dip it.

Remous wrote:

skully93 wrote:

Remous wrote:I'm glad this thread was started. I was debating on doing the stage 2 kit to my buddy but after hearing what everyone is saying I'll just hop on my 883 sportster if I want the additional speed. I am still contemplating the prima exhaust though...

The prima sounds nice, and it does let it breathe a bit.

DeeDee has a reasonably priced one to sell (that used to be in my parts bin no less). It's never been mounted. Mine is still going strong after a lot of abuse and 10k miles.

I wish I could find someone close to me that has one to hear it in person. I've watched youtube videos but that doesn't help at all. I can't tell much of a difference in the videos. If I went with the prima exhaust I'm sure I can paint it correct? I've blacked out my seafoam and the chrome exhaust would stick out like a sore thumb, would have to plasti-dip it.

Would Plasti-Dip withstand the temps that the exhaust reaches in normal use? I don't know enough about the product to say it won't but it would surprise me if it can be safely used on such a hot object.

cummingsjc wrote:
Would Plasti-Dip withstand the temps that the exhaust reaches in normal use? I don't know enough about the product to say it won't but it would surprise me if it can be safely used on such a hot object.

I sprayed plasti on both my buddy and kymco' exhaust and it's been ok.

Remous wrote:

cummingsjc wrote:
Would Plasti-Dip withstand the temps that the exhaust reaches in normal use? I don't know enough about the product to say it won't but it would surprise me if it can be safely used on such a hot object.

I sprayed plasti on both my buddy and kymco' exhaust and it's been ok.

Good to know!

So, here is a list of the parts I have purchased as of right now. Installation is next week and I will follow these up with the ncy transmission and oil cooler.

Stage 2 performance kit: NCY exhaust, 161cc cylinder kit, 9.5g roller weights, 2000rpm spring and three jets; 100, 105 and 110.
Also; Oil pressure release, Big valve head, 26mm carb and a 28mm teflon coated intake manifold.

Will I need to change out the jet on the new carb to increase fuel flow or will it already have a larger jet?

Is there anything I am missing here that I should have or is this a good point to end the engine mods?

I was told by the guy at scooterworks that the head is already polished and I don't feel that I need to have it ported.

I am hoping that between these parts and the new transmission I will be able to hit 65MPH consistently on flats and up hills, I am 6'6" and 250lbs.
I will update the top end speed, average speed and acceleration increases after the installation. 53MPH flat and 60MPH downhill are the current max speeds using a gps.

These parts have cost me $738 and the installation has been estimated at $400. I know that I could have simply bought a larger bike but I LOVE the way the Buddy 125 handles. My guess is that I would lose a lot of agility by moving to a larger frame. I love being able to quickly move across lanes to avoid problems.

Does anyone know where I can obtain all of the plastics for the Buddy 170i? I like the look better.

Thanks again for all of the advice guys! 8D