Buddy 125 cruiser mods?

[GoSlash27]

Hi all.
I picked up a Buddy 125 for my GF (she's short) so she can ride with us on cruises.

We often run 2 lane highway where the speed limit is 55mph and traffic flows at about 62mph. I'm looking for recommendations on the best ways to speed up her little scoot while keeping it reliable. I've personally had it up to 64, but it's a bit weak to hold that speed with varying grades and winds.
I'm an experienced mechanic and have a decent shop in my garage. Any recommendations? Thoughts on the Prima 161cc jug kit?

Thanks,
-Slashy

[cummingsjc]

See this thread that is currently going (and was actually only two down from your new thread in the postings list) :

http://www.modernbuddy.com/forum/topic30483.html

The consensus seems to be that the BBK and other performance upgrades will help with additional top speed but they generally tend to wear out faster than stock parts and reduce MPG. The other consensus seems to be that if you want more speed then buying and modifying a Buddy 125 is probably not the best or most cost efficient way to get there.

[sc00ter]

I sold both of my Buddy 125's to the same guy, and on the first one, we found a up-gear (reduction box) combo that worked. Took a teeny tiny bit off the bottom end takeoff but put about 10mph more at the top. It was a lot of numbers crunching and parts diagram searching, plus we had to have a bearing pressed on at the machine shop. I gave him the service manual and I think the gear tooth counts and part numbers are/should be written in the notes section. We also spent a bit of time with tuning rollers before settling on the final weights. If I go by his house I will check the manual and see if its listed in the notes section.

[paracer]

I have gone through this exercise with my 125. I am using a 161 kit, a high flow head, and an opened up intake. I have a 26mm carb currently, but I think the stock carb might be fine. I am also running a taller rear tire to help increase rollout and get another couple mph. The tire is a 130-70-10.

I feel like my changes have made the bike happier with high speed cruising.

Some people note that a small windshield helps pick up a bit on the top end, but I found that I go faster in a full tuck. Also, keep those knees tucked in!

I would like to try a set of sliders. I have a 30mm carb and metal intake that is waiting on a taller intake spacer. I'm not sure if this is going to help anything, but I'm addicted to wrenching.

[babblefish]

I sold both of my Buddy 125's to the same guy, and on the first one, we found a up-gear (reduction box) combo that worked. Took a teeny tiny bit off the bottom end takeoff but put about 10mph more at the top. It was a lot of numbers crunching and parts diagram searching, plus we had to have a bearing pressed on at the machine shop. I gave him the service manual and I think the gear tooth counts and part numbers are/should be written in the notes section. We also spent a bit of time with tuning rollers before settling on the final weights. If I go by his house I will check the manual and see if its listed in the notes section.

Yes, please. Post the part numbers and where you got them. I'm very interested.

[babblefish]

I have gone through this exercise with my 125. I am using a 161 kit, a high flow head, and an opened up intake. I have a 26mm carb currently, but I think the stock carb might be fine. I am also running a taller rear tire to help increase rollout and get another couple mph. The tire is a 130-70-10.

I feel like my changes have made the bike happier with high speed cruising.

Some people note that a small windshield helps pick up a bit on the top end, but I found that I go faster in a full tuck. Also, keep those knees tucked in!

I would like to try a set of sliders. I have a 30mm carb and metal intake that is waiting on a taller intake spacer. I'm not sure if this is going to help anything, but I'm addicted to wrenching.

I'd say nix the 30mm carb. I had one on my 183cc engine and the only time it made a difference was at sustained wide open throttle. The rest of the time, on city streets, all I got was reduced throttle response and poor gas mileage. I'm currently running the stock 24mm carb, but feel a 26mm would be the best compromise for my engine, which (and I'm not boasting here) has much more mods done to it than yours. But, I understand about being addicted to wrenching - future plans for my engine include an even longer stroke crank, 63mm bore, and a 4-valve head. The end result will be an engine with a displacement of just a smidge under 200cc, or, depending on the crank, an even 205cc. The 30mm will definitely go back on...
The down side to all of this is significantly reduced engine life...ah well, the price of go-fast, Lol.

[paracer]

I'd say nix the 30mm carb.

The down side to all of this is significantly reduced engine life...ah well, the price of go-fast, Lol.

I'm going to try since I have most of the parts, and probably have the same conclusion as you. But it's the addiction.

I am sure the engine life is shorter. Fortunately replacements are cheap, I and I can start with a 150 and build again from there. I am assuming the change in the harmonics from the larger piston wrecks the crank bearings.

[joebug]

By the time you put the money and time into these mods, you will find that it would have been easier to just buy a larger displacement scooter. The genuine blur 220 for example, slap on a lowered seat and a lowered rear shock and you have the ride height she needs, plus larger more stable at higher speeds... the 125 is not the best for high speeds and some pot holes can really shake you up at 55 mph... be careful out there.

[sc00ter]

SO FAR this is what I found. He recalls its the gear set from a Black Jack model. Part of what made the gear swap difficult was that the Black Jack does not have its own parts section, and the differences between it and a standard 125 and the Black Jack are not outlined. I think the gear count/part numbers are written in the service manual, he says the old gears should be in the box the new gears came in. I need to go into the black hole (aka-garage) and look for the Buddy parts boxes. Pulled a muscle in my back last Wed. and still not to motivated to move stuff around, but with the power of pills I may just go and look. Keep ya posted on what I find......

[BuddyRaton]

By the time you put the money and time into these mods, you will find that it would have been easier to just buy a larger displacement scooter. The genuine blur 220 for example, slap on a lowered seat and a lowered rear shock and you have the ride height she needs, plus larger more stable at higher speeds... the 125 is not the best for high speeds and some pot holes can really shake you up at 55 mph... be careful out there.

Yeah...but where is the fun in that! I've ridden thousands of miles at 60 to 70 on 10-inch wheels. I don't buy the argument that larger wheels are "safer" Bigger wheels are able to take bigger holes...smaller are much better for avoiding them in the first place!

I went with the 161 kit, opened up the air box, 26mm carb and NCY pipe. This scooter will wheelie out from you if not careful. Personally I don't see need to go to the big valve head but we each like to do thing our own way.

I was going for increased performance without compromising reliability and engine life dramatically. Remember a stock 125 has a longer stroke than a 150.

[paracer]

Would you say that an exhaust does anything on a 161 kitted buddy?

[joebug]

By the time you put the money and time into these mods, you will find that it would have been easier to just buy a larger displacement scooter. The genuine blur 220 for example, slap on a lowered seat and a lowered rear shock and you have the ride height she needs, plus larger more stable at higher speeds... the 125 is not the best for high speeds and some pot holes can really shake you up at 55 mph... be careful out there.

Yeah...but where is the fun in that! I've ridden thousands of miles at 60 to 70 on 10-inch wheels. I don't buy the argument that larger wheels are "safer" Bigger wheels are able to take bigger holes...smaller are much better for avoiding them in the first place!

I went with the 161 kit, opened up the air box, 26mm carb and NCY pipe. This scooter will wheelie out from you if not careful. Personally I don't see need to go to the big valve head but we each like to do thing our own way.

I was going for increased performance without compromising reliability and engine life dramatically. Remember a stock 125 has a longer stroke than a 150.

I hear your point about the fun... but the op is doing it for his girlfriend, seems he already has a ride that is capable, the time he will spend to get it all together he could be riding with a larger displacement scoot... I'm not against modding, but in this case I think he'd be better off with something a little bigger and get out riding instead of in the garage wrenching. Just makes more sense to me.... besides it also seems to me she is new to riding, I don't think a scooter capable of popping a wheelie if she's not careful is the way to go... imagine he does all that work, she pops a wheelie, falls off ...gets hurt, and the bike flies off into a ditch and gets ruined..then she won't get back on ever again.. not the way to go..the scoot for her needs to be safe and capable of going through that pothole because she's not going to do any type if maneuvering, she needs to feel confident on it and when she's ready to go a little faster the power will be there with a larger displacement scooter. maybe I just look at things a little differently?
This video explains my theory. https://youtu.be/fruC5VVhu_8

[GoSlash27]

Joebug,
Good point, and well- taken. Not to worry though, if I do modify the bike it won't be until after she's become adept with the stock scoot and is ready to go faster. I probably won't make any changes until this winter if at all.
For the moment I'm just weighing my options.

As for my bike, it's a '64 Vespa VBB with a Stella 2T motor, 177cc Polini jug, and various upgrades. A pretty nice all- around bike, but too cumbersome for her.

Best,
-Slashy

[lovemysan]

I have a complete upgear kit I'd sell. It's a set of 170i gears. I had them in my 125 for maybe 200-300 miles. I'm pretty sure I have a new bearing and gear case gasket as well.

[babblefish]

I have a complete upgear kit I'd sell. It's a set of 170i gears. I had them in my 125 for maybe 200-300 miles. I'm pretty sure I have a new bearing and gear case gasket as well.

So just curious, why did you remove them?

[sc00ter]

That is interesting as to why they were removed. I also think the 170 gears are the same tooth count as the Black Jack gears, so if you wanna up-gear a 125 then this is a nice opportunity.

[Dooglas]

If you are looking to secure a scooter which will reliably and efficiently cruise in the 60 to 65 mph range then I don't believe trying to hop up a Buddy 125 is the right answer. There are plenty of scooters out there which will do that job with no fuss. A used Vespa 200 comes to mind. A Sym HD200 or a Kymco Yagar are light scooters that will easily do that. The new Yamaha S-max is another.

[cummingsjc]

If you are looking to secure a scooter which will reliably and efficiently cruise in the 60 to 65 mph range then I don't believe trying to hop up a Buddy 125 is the right answer. There are plenty of scooters out there which will do that job with no fuss. A used Vespa 200 comes to mind. A Sym HD200 or a Kymco Yagar are light scooters that will easily do that. The new Yamaha S-max is another.

Unfortunately, it appears that the OP already bought the 125 and now has to figure out how to make it go slightly faster and hold speed on hills better. I doubt he wants to trade his recent purchase.

[GoSlash27]

Unfortunately, it appears that the OP already bought the 125 and now has to figure out how to make it go slightly faster and hold speed on hills better. I doubt he wants to trade his recent purchase.

cummingsic,
That's not the issue. The problem is I'm limited by her height. She's too small to ride a normal size scooter and the Buddy is the only one out there that's small enough for her. She can't ride a bigger scooter, so I don't have the option of trading. It has to be this one.
The bike handles fine at the top end; actually more pleasant than my bike at the same speed. I've ridden it myself. I don't need it to go faster, I just need it to maintain what it's already doing.

Best,
-Slashy

[lovemysan]

I have a complete upgear kit I'd sell. It's a set of 170i gears. I had them in my 125 for maybe 200-300 miles. I'm pretty sure I have a new bearing and gear case gasket as well.

So just curious, why did you remove them?

I'm 250lbs. At the time it picked up 4mph running 65 mph 9300-9500 rpm. Like I said the cranks don't last long turning that rpm, at least mine haven't. For me I don't need to go the fast anyway. Ninja tucked running a 4 lane city street at 65 mph is dumb so I went back to stock gears and set the bike to accelerate as hard as possible. It's not cruiser for me. I wouldn't upgear a stock bike. If your lighter with a big bore it will definitely go faster though.

[lovemysan]

That is interesting as to why they were removed. I also think the 170 gears are the same tooth count as the Black Jack gears, so if you wanna up-gear a 125 then this is a nice opportunity.

Yes 170 and 150 gears are the same. There are 3 gear sets available

Psycho gears, 125, 150/170i

[babblefish]

Unfortunately, it appears that the OP already bought the 125 and now has to figure out how to make it go slightly faster and hold speed on hills better. I doubt he wants to trade his recent purchase.

cummingsic,
That's not the issue. The problem is I'm limited by her height. She's too small to ride a normal size scooter and the Buddy is the only one out there that's small enough for her. She can't ride a bigger scooter, so I don't have the option of trading. It has to be this one.
The bike handles fine at the top end; actually more pleasant than my bike at the same speed. I've ridden it myself. I don't need it to go faster, I just need it to maintain what it's already doing.

Best,
-Slashy

In that case, I would say an 161cc BBK and rejet would be your least expensive and least complicated way to accomplish your goal. A BBK can be installed in a Buddy without having to remove the engine. Just make sure you get one meant for a 125 engine because the piston to connecting rod pin is smaller than that in a 150.

[Remous]

Check out ram mounts... they make a very good mount that is pretty solid and heard very good things about.

[babblefish]

Check out ram mounts... they make a very good mount that is pretty solid and heard very good things about.

So how much HP will one of those add?

[scootERIK]

How many miles do you have on the Buddy 125? They do tend to run faster after about 2,000 miles.

The easiest thing you can try is adding a windshield. Most people on here have reported getting 1-3 mph more top end which should make it easier to maintain faster speeds(better aerodynamics.)

If you Buddy has 3.50"x10" tires you could try going to 100/90-10" tires. They are a little taller so it is a little bit of an up-gear. But the scooter will be a little bit taller( about 0.3".) That might get you another 1-3 mph.

No guarantees, but that's what I would start with.

[lovemysan]

Unfortunately, it appears that the OP already bought the 125 and now has to figure out how to make it go slightly faster and hold speed on hills better. I doubt he wants to trade his recent purchase.

cummingsic,
That's not the issue. The problem is I'm limited by her height. She's too small to ride a normal size scooter and the Buddy is the only one out there that's small enough for her. She can't ride a bigger scooter, so I don't have the option of trading. It has to be this one.
The bike handles fine at the top end; actually more pleasant than my bike at the same speed. I've ridden it myself. I don't need it to go faster, I just need it to maintain what it's already doing.

Best,
-Slashy

In that case, I would say an 161cc BBK and rejet would be your least expensive and least complicated way to accomplish your goal. A BBK can be installed in a Buddy without having to remove the engine. Just make sure you get one meant for a 125 engine because the piston to connecting rod pin is smaller than that in a 150.

You are looking for a 13mm wrist pin. Prima kit and ncy are the same product. I haven't seen the ncy version in a while. Taida makes a kit in multiple sizes 58.5-63mm. But you would have to find someone to order from Taiwan for you. If you are going to do a kit minimum do the big valve or a 150 head.

[Christophers]

If you are going to do a kit minimum do the big valve or a 150 head.

This is solid advice. You need a larger head than the stock Buddy 125 head for the 161 cc kit. Otherwise you won't see a lot in terms of results.
The 150 head is a good place to start. Going larger has mixed reports. Larger definitely decreases gas mileage, but in some cases can deliver more power.

(My use of the Big Valve Head was with a 183 cc kitted Buddy 150/Blackjack - I used the 150 head from the Blackjack on the 161 cc kitted Psycho and the Big Valve Head on the 183 kitted Blackjack).

[Remous]

Check out ram mounts... they make a very good mount that is pretty solid and heard very good things about.

So how much HP will one of those add?

lmao my bad, wrong topic.... hence the 430am post