First 620 miles of scoot "Breaking in the engine"

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Smithilberry
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First 620 miles of scoot "Breaking in the engine"

Post by Smithilberry »

Hello again Genuine Friends,

So yesterday, I bought a brand new hooligan from a dealership 2 hours away. The only way I could get it home is driving it. I'm in New England so the hills (actually mountains) are crazy big. That being said, in order to go a decent speed, I drove home on full throttle almost the entire way. However, when I got home (after locking both keys in the seat I find out today) I looked at the manual and notice that you aren't suppose to go full throttle for the first 620 miles and not drive it for longer than an hour at a time and a bunch of other stuff about the first 620 miles or else it'll effect the lifespan of the scoot.

Well, I drove 2 hours and change at full throttle for it's first however many miles (90?).. How much damage do you think this has done? What kind of damage could this do? What is the purpose of and how important is this special care for first 620 miles concept? Please tell me I didn't destroy my new scoot! =(
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pcsguy88
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Post by pcsguy88 »

Same situation for the first 100 miles on my Blur 220i except I didn't have to hold it wide open to maintain 55mph on the secondary highways I plotted my route on. I did however hold the throttle in the same position for miles at a time which is another no no during break in and the book says to keep it under 45 for the first few hundred. 2 months and 1200 miles later my dealer and I see no issues after the first 2 services.
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mike932
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Post by mike932 »

Avoid full throttle even after the break in. Too much full throttle can kill the engine. Try to ride 5mph slower than full throttle.
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BuddyRaton
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Post by BuddyRaton »

mike932 wrote:Avoid full throttle even after the break in. Too much full throttle can kill the engine. Try to ride 5mph slower than full throttle.
Fully agree...except when running the Cannonball!!!!!!!!

Break in is a bit controversial. Some believe in a fast hard break in. To me this has been based on one obscure article and yeah...race bike do it...but they also rebuild every weekend!

Break in sets the rings. Gets the bearings set, has the final drive running. All these parts need to learn how to play nice with each other and actually "break" in. Small pieces of metal will "break off" as everything meshes together and settles in. The tolerances are small so any excess material gets torn off.

The other method is the slow break in. Always vary rpms, don't go over half throttle for like 300 miles.,,etc etc.

I go by the Hot Rod Al motto "Break it in like a dog it will run like a dog...break it in slow and it will run fast and smooth forever.

Now in all honesty I have done both. I had to replace a 2T Malossi 166 top end on the 2012 CBR. I went fairly easy for the first 100 miles then hammered the snot out of it.

Also when I kitted my Buddy 125 to 161 I had it strapped on the lift. I started it and the throttle was strapped WFO! I hit the kill switch but...it was pretty much broken in.

I am usually a slow break in person. My 79 Pinasco nikasil cylinder 225cc kit was ported by Hot Rod Al. For that motor it was a 1,000 mile break in

I think you will be fine. In reality with Buddy and Hooligan motors it really doesn't seem to make a difference. They are tough proven motors and pretty hard to screw up.

My suggestion would be that if you rode it hard out of the box change the oil, oil filter and gear lube immediately. There is going to be a bunch of metal shavings in there after a hard run new. Do that and I think you will be just fine!

Keep us updated and enjoy that scooter! :D
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'06 Cream Buddy 125, 11 Blur 220, 13 BMW C 650 GT, 68 Vespa SS180, 64 Vespa GS MK II, 65 Lambretta TV 175, 67 Vespa GT, 64 Vespa 150 VBB 64 Vespa GL
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Christophers
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Post by Christophers »

Perhaps this is the article you are referring to:
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
In any case it is worth a read. I'm following this advice/procedure currently on a couple of my bikes.
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BuddyRaton
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Post by BuddyRaton »

Christophers wrote:Perhaps this is the article you are referring to:
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
In any case it is worth a read. I'm following this advice/procedure currently on a couple of my bikes.

Yeah that's the one. I haven't been able to find any other documented tests that agrees with it.

Anyway it's one of those topics that I don't argue. Whose ever it is it's their scooter and what they do is none of my business!


Keep us updated I'm interested to see how it goes!

To the OP I strongly suggest changing the fluids. Do that and I think you will be fine!
"Things fall apart - it's scientific" - David Byrne
www.teamscootertrash.com

'06 Cream Buddy 125, 11 Blur 220, 13 BMW C 650 GT, 68 Vespa SS180, 64 Vespa GS MK II, 65 Lambretta TV 175, 67 Vespa GT, 64 Vespa 150 VBB 64 Vespa GL
Smithilberry
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Post by Smithilberry »

Thank you very much for the feedback everyone!

As far as scoot maintenance, I never had any done before... Would my car mechanic know what to do or should I seek out a scoot mechanic?
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BuddyRaton
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Post by BuddyRaton »

An oil and gear lube change is one of the easiest things to do yourself. It's a great way to get to know your scooter!

There are several tutorial threads on the form showing how to do this. Be aware that the oil filter need to be torqued or "tightened" more than is the norm for most motors.

If you have someone else do it I would recommend a motorcycle shop...but do let them know about the oil filter torque requirements. They would probably go with the traditional "hand tight plus a quarter turn" for the filter and your scooter requires it to be tighter so the filter does not spin off.
"Things fall apart - it's scientific" - David Byrne
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'06 Cream Buddy 125, 11 Blur 220, 13 BMW C 650 GT, 68 Vespa SS180, 64 Vespa GS MK II, 65 Lambretta TV 175, 67 Vespa GT, 64 Vespa 150 VBB 64 Vespa GL
Smithilberry
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Post by Smithilberry »

That is great to know. I was considering doing it myself so I think I will because you got me feeling encouraged to do it haha. Thanks!
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Post by BuddyRaton »

Smithilberry wrote:That is great to know. I was considering doing it myself so I think I will because you got me feeling encouraged to do it haha. Thanks!
There is a ton of great information here. Don't forget the thech library http://www.modernbuddy.com/forum/forum9.html Read up, print out what you need and have it sitting next to you, don't force anything and you will do fine.

If you're not familiar with mechanical work don't be afraid to ask questions. Learning how to do things on your scooter yourself will save you money and give you that feeling of accomplishment!

Keep us updated!
"Things fall apart - it's scientific" - David Byrne
www.teamscootertrash.com

'06 Cream Buddy 125, 11 Blur 220, 13 BMW C 650 GT, 68 Vespa SS180, 64 Vespa GS MK II, 65 Lambretta TV 175, 67 Vespa GT, 64 Vespa 150 VBB 64 Vespa GL
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Post by New2Scoots »

I had a similar situation. My Buddy dealer was 26 miles away in an area I was unfamiliar with. I didn't want to take the highway in 70 mph traffic so I rode it home the back way. And got lost. Riding around back roads at half throttle until I figured out where I was & by then I had 50 miles on the odometer & was 21 miles from home. Unfortunately I had to go full throttle for 15 of those last miles to keep up with traffic but the frustration of being lost so long made it not matter so much. I took it easy the next 600 miles, no full throttle. Didn't want to repeat that for my first valve adjustment so I did it myself. Quite simple. Checked at around 1,060 miles & was .005 & I could have let it go awhile but went ahead & adjusted to .008. Did the lubes myself per the manual. I would have preferred taking the Buddy home in my truck but it's a little too heavy to lift it myself.
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Post by GregsBuddy »

Who could possibly know more about the engine than the people who design, specify and build the engine?
I followed the Genuine (PGO) directions and with 6,000 miles it uses zero oil between 1,800 mile oil changes and has not needed a valve adjustment yet. Yes, I've checked them three times and put the cover back on without loosening the rocker lock nut.
Doesn't mean that if I'd broken it in with full throttle and no oil changes or valve adjustments that it wouldn't still be running fine, but who really know? Probably PGO!
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Post by kmrcstintn »

previous Buddy 125's...followed guidelines in manual with a few W.O.T. bursts; first oil changes done between 275-350 miles (my dealer drains factory oil & refills with Castrol GTX 10w-40 before initial test ride); also do several short mileage OCI's up to 1000 miles (350-500 miles each) & then another 500 mile OCI with new filter & synblend or full syn oil at 1500 miles; rear diff gear oil changed once or twice between 1st oil change & the one at 1500 miles...

current Buddy 125...same as above with addition of Prima magnetic drain plug kit; did the 1500 mile oil change a bit early (@1465 miles)...just turned over 1530 miles this week! running strong...
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Post by Wertles »

You are going to be just fine. I have two buddy's. The first was broken in pretty much WOT (my wife) and the second never went over 40 for the first two thousand miles (first owner). The one that was broken in WOT ran so much better and stronger than the other. It has taken 1000 miles of running the second scooter at WOT to get things loosened up so now both are pretty much even.
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lovemysan
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Post by lovemysan »

You'll be fine. It would have been better to mix in lots of deceleration events and a couple of heat cycles but i don't think you hurt it. I would change the oil though.
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Post by claricia56 »

pcsguy88 wrote:Same situation for the first 100 miles on my Blur 220i except I didn't have to hold it wide open to maintain 55mph on the secondary highways I plotted my route on Dossier de crédit. I did however hold the throttle in the same position for miles at a time which is another no no during break in and the book says to keep it under 45 for the first few hundred. 2 months and 1200 miles later my dealer and I see no issues after the first 2 services.
If your dealer did not see any concern, it is that the parts had to be authentic. I am wrong.
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Break in period is for controlling overheating

Post by Argee »

I am always surprised that this aspect seems to have been forgotten. With a poor ring seal, heat transfer to the cylinder is poor so your piston may expand and seize. That's it. That's the only reason to avoid full-throttle for awhile. If you live in cool weather or have an oil cooler like the 170i, it is highly unlikely any more.

The best way to get a good ring seal is to create a lot of pressure in the cylinder, such as heavy acceleration. That's it.

Drive a bunch of stop-and-go for the first 100 miles, so you are pushing the engine hard for only a few seconds at a time, but you are not risking smearing the piston all over the cylinder wall.

"Varying the throttle" is the manufacturer's trick to remind you to get some acceleration in there, and reduce the risk of seizure.

I knew a racer who would always break-in by hill climbing a dozen times. Worked great, done in a day. I did it a couple of times in the '70s, when I lived on a big hill.

The only caution I would add is that the quality of the Buddy is not so good, so it is prudent to let things settle in a bit at many different speeds, for the gears and bearings. In my mind that's why I performed a long break-in on this machine, and changed the fluids often. I also added a bit of zinc for the first oil change.

Change your own fluids. It's easy. YouTube.
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Re: Break in period is for controlling overheating

Post by cummingsjc »

Argee wrote:I am always surprised that this aspect seems to have been forgotten. With a poor ring seal, heat transfer to the cylinder is poor so your piston may expand and seize. That's it. That's the only reason to avoid full-throttle for awhile. If you live in cool weather or have an oil cooler like the 170i, it is highly unlikely any more.

The best way to get a good ring seal is to create a lot of pressure in the cylinder, such as heavy acceleration. That's it.

Drive a bunch of stop-and-go for the first 100 miles, so you are pushing the engine hard for only a few seconds at a time, but you are not risking smearing the piston all over the cylinder wall.

"Varying the throttle" is the manufacturer's trick to remind you to get some acceleration in there, and reduce the risk of seizure.

I knew a racer who would always break-in by hill climbing a dozen times. Worked great, done in a day. I did it a couple of times in the '70s, when I lived on a big hill.

The only caution I would add is that the quality of the Buddy is not so good, so it is prudent to let things settle in a bit at many different speeds, for the gears and bearings. In my mind that's why I performed a long break-in on this machine, and changed the fluids often. I also added a bit of zinc for the first oil change.

Change your own fluids. It's easy. YouTube.
I am curious about your assertion that the quality of the Buddy series of is not so good. I have never had an issue with any of my 3 Genuine Scooter products in regards to manufacturing quality or durability.
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Re: Break in period is for controlling overheating

Post by BuddyRaton »

Argee wrote:I am always surprised that this aspect seems to have been forgotten. With a poor ring seal, heat transfer to the cylinder is poor so your piston may expand and seize. That's it. That's the only reason to avoid full-throttle for awhile. If you live in cool weather or have an oil cooler like the 170i, it is highly unlikely any more.

The best way to get a good ring seal is to create a lot of pressure in the cylinder, such as heavy acceleration. That's it.

Drive a bunch of stop-and-go for the first 100 miles, so you are pushing the engine hard for only a few seconds at a time, but you are not risking smearing the piston all over the cylinder wall.

"Varying the throttle" is the manufacturer's trick to remind you to get some acceleration in there, and reduce the risk of seizure.

I knew a racer who would always break-in by hill climbing a dozen times. Worked great, done in a day. I did it a couple of times in the '70s, when I lived on a big hill.

The only caution I would add is that the quality of the Buddy is not so good, so it is prudent to let things settle in a bit at many different speeds, for the gears and bearings. In my mind that's why I performed a long break-in on this machine, and changed the fluids often. I also added a bit of zinc for the first oil change.

Change your own fluids. It's easy. YouTube.
I have never heard that acceleration creates greater cylinder pressure. Volume is volume, reduction in volume is reduction in volume and pressure is pressure.

Unless you really screw with the carb...and the 170i is fuel injected...it is VERY hard to heat seize a Buddy motor. On a two stroke...yeah...4T...not so much.

The "this is how racer's do it" argument doesn't hold up for me. A Buddy isn't a race bike, wasn't built as a race bike and doesn't get rebuilt like a race bike. That's like saying "change your car tires every chance you get 'cause that's what they do with a NASCAR race car."

So....what problems have you had that leads you to slam the quality? Other than crashing it of course which really isn't good for any vehicle.
"Things fall apart - it's scientific" - David Byrne
www.teamscootertrash.com

'06 Cream Buddy 125, 11 Blur 220, 13 BMW C 650 GT, 68 Vespa SS180, 64 Vespa GS MK II, 65 Lambretta TV 175, 67 Vespa GT, 64 Vespa 150 VBB 64 Vespa GL
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Re: Break in period is for controlling overheating

Post by scootERIK »

BuddyRaton wrote:So....what problems have you had that leads you to slam the quality? Other than crashing it of course which really isn't good for any vehicle.
My Buddy 125 motor didn't even have 45,000 miles on it before it needed a rebuild. That's just unacceptable.

I'm being totally sarcastic.

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