Modern Buddy

Hey!
I'm fairly new to scooters, 2-strokes, and carbs.

I picked up some scooters, new, but 2016 models.
For a few days, scooters didn't start without giving it a touch of throttle.

Now, the cold start seems okay, but warm starts are a pita. You have to give it throttle or sit on the starter button for a while.

The dealership is about 3600 ft lower elevation, so I imagine its partially due to tuning.

I have no clue how to adjust the air/fuel mixture on this thing. Can anyone point me to where this screw is and how to adjust...or if I'm on the wrong path, tell me what I should look for to fix?

Thanks!

Subscribed

What kind of scooters? Either Genuine or Adly, as thats the only 2 strokes Im aware of for sale in the US right now. Both my 98 Yamaha Zuma and my 2017 Adly RT require a bit of throttle to start. The Zuma has a manual choke, and its much easier to start than the auto-choke Adly. Still, both require a bit of throttle at start up. Im at sea level plus I have to find my carb notes. Moped Army had a great Wiki section on carb tuning for 2-strokes, and that who I used for my base settings.

Hi! Thanks for the reply. I have a Genuine Buddy 50. The dealer suggested adjusting the tuning since it's probably a little rich for where I am. Do you know how to adjust? I've looked in service manual and owners manual, but still unsure.

I'm sort of bummed they just don't start consistently.

Check the technical threads. They have the info there. The guys here are great and will lead you in the right direction. The search function here isn't the best. It's easier some times to type your search into google and add modern buddy to it.

How many miles on the bikes? To adjust the fuel mix you need to remove the welch plug from the carb.

I've noticed

Haven't been able to find exactly what I need yet, but hoping I do soon.

lovemysan wrote:How many miles on the bikes? To adjust the fuel mix you need to remove the welch plug from the carb.

About 20 miles ish.

I'll Google Welch plug... new term for me. Thanks

scootbwh wrote:I've noticed

Haven't been able to find exactly what I need yet, but hoping I do soon.

See if this one helps.
http://www.modernbuddy.com/forum/topic17556.html

I have come across this post actually. I'll post a picture of my carb here soon; if someone can point out that plug and that'd be sweet.

On a side note, did some more testing yesterday. Both cold started right up. Took a few seconds for idle to creep up. Shut em off. Tried again and damn thing wouldn't start without some help.

Seems like it should not do this especially on a new unit. I guess I could call Buddy and see what their support says.

Thanks!

Here is a picture. Help is appreciated.

Bummed these scooters wont start easily! I fired em up again today. Cold start, fine. Warm start had to sit on the starter for a few seconds before it caught. Lame-o.

Should I even be adjusting the a/f? By searching around, it seems that these should run fine with stock jetting and a/f even at my elevation (4000 feet ish).

Second Pic

And the thing smokes like crazy when you start it up for the first 10 minutes or so. Owwweee.

scootbwh wrote:And the thing smokes like crazy when you start it up for the first 10 minutes or so. Owwweee.

Since they're both under warranty, why don't you just get them back to the dealer that sold them to you and get them fixed properly and at no-charge to you? You seem to be spending an awful lot of time anguishing over something that your dealer should be taking care of. That's what warranties are all about. Why aren't you using yours?

Bill in Seattle
'12 Buddy 170i Oxford Green
'14 Hooligan 170i Matte Green

I hear ya!
I'm calling today. I was hoping to take this opportunity to learn how to fix "minor" issues since my dealer is 2 hours away and at 4000' lower elevation which may or may not matter.

We'll see. May need to make a trip this weekend

The first thing i would do is put some miles on them. Expect them to loosen up with some miles on them. I wouldn't adjust a thing till about 250 mile. Do a good long ride that gets everything good and warmed up. Also use engine braking where possible as it will aid in seating the rings.

I tend to agree with you, but the things should start. Only one is really acting up, the other seems to have gotten some sense.

Yesterday, I did these tests:
-try to start, won't start
-turn idle screw all the way in. Starts.
-scoot warms up (smokey of course) and idles really high.
-turn idle screw to normal idle setting.
-ride around for a few miles.
-turn off
-try to start, need to sit on starter button or give gas.
-park it for 4+ hours to cool down
-try to start, won't start.


I've checked the enrichment sensor. It seems to have 5 ohm resistance, so seems okay. Trying to avoid renting a trailer and driving 2 hours, but may need to.

Video of cold start:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/P9YvcO6yloU263vx2

Your scooter is broken. Warm It should start right up in one or two revolutions. Usually 1 kick on the kickstart. A few things to note. Heavy smoke indicates excess oil in the crank case or intake. It could be the that the oil injection system has a bad check valve and is leaking into the crankcase. 10-15 minutes running makes it go away indicates that its burned it off. This might cause starting difficulties but not warm starting generally.

The black screw on the carb is idle speed, it does not effect mixture. It does the same thing as twisting the throttle a little bit. Its just opening the carb a little. To change idle mixture you need to remove the welch plug to the left and lower than the speed screw. This should not require adjustment in most cases. Maybe if you went up a little more in altitude.

The auto enricher is a valve that opens and closes. The wires going to it run a heating element. As it heats the wax inside it hydraulically closes the the enrichment needle. I tested one of these years ago by removing it and cold starting the bike and watch the needle move. YOu need extra hands.
Have an assistant cover the whole in the carb with a thumb. SOmebody will have to hold the throttle to keep the bike running. THe enricher could be the problem as well.

Listening to the video it seems to me you have either an ignition issue or possibly carb issue. I would advise against adjusting the mixture screw and have the dealer fix the bike. It could be that the its 2 issues together causing the issue. I wonder if the road side assistance could tow the bike for you?

lovemysan wrote:Your scooter is broken. Warm It should start right up in one or two revolutions. Usually 1 kick on the kickstart. A few things to note. Heavy smoke indicates excess oil in the crank case or intake. It could be the that the oil injection system has a bad check valve and is leaking into the crankcase. 10-15 minutes running makes it go away indicates that its burned it off. This might cause starting difficulties but not warm starting generally.

The black screw on the carb is idle speed, it does not effect mixture. It does the same thing as twisting the throttle a little bit. Its just opening the carb a little. To change idle mixture you need to remove the welch plug to the left and lower than the speed screw. This should not require adjustment in most cases. Maybe if you went up a little more in altitude.

The auto enricher is a valve that opens and closes. The wires going to it run a heating element. As it heats the wax inside it hydraulically closes the the enrichment needle. I tested one of these years ago by removing it and cold starting the bike and watch the needle move. YOu need extra hands.
Have an assistant cover the whole in the carb with a thumb. SOmebody will have to hold the throttle to keep the bike running. THe enricher could be the problem as well.

Listening to the video it seems to me you have either an ignition issue or possibly carb issue. I would advise against adjusting the mixture screw and have the dealer fix the bike. It could be that the its 2 issues together causing the issue. I wonder if the road side assistance could tow the bike for you?

Thanks for the informative response! Are you saying that it is normal or not normal to have the smoke go away after 10-15 minutes? It smokes lightly when started (I'm told that's normal), and if you ride it its a huge trail until you've been riding for 5-10 min or so.

Looks like I have to take em in. Like I mentioned, they are "new", but they are 2016 models so they have been sitting at the Chicago warehouse or whatever for a while prior to me getting them.

light smoke until the motor warms up is normal. 15 minutes of heavy smoke after sitting a month is normal. Heavy smoke every day I would start to suspect the oil injection is leaking down into the engine. Also consider light and heavy smoke are subjective terms and I can tolerate a healthy amount of smoke. Its most likely not going to hurt anything if it does it.

New scooters should not need the air mixture screw adjusted. It should be set at the factory. And some scooters require a metal plug be removed to adjust that screw and removing that plug is way beyond what most people are going to want to do. I wouldn't want to do it. The Buddy 125 does not have that plug. The dealer should have the scoots ready to ride. They should start promptly and run well. Yes, there is a break-in period regarding top speed, etc. But the dealer should have the scoots ready to ride.

ucandoit wrote:New scooters should not need the air mixture screw adjusted. It should be set at the factory. And some scooters require a metal plug be removed to adjust that screw and removing that plug is way beyond what most people are going to want to do. I wouldn't want to do it. The Buddy 125 does not have that plug. The dealer should have the scoots ready to ride. They should start promptly and run well. Yes, there is a break-in period regarding top speed, etc. But the dealer should have the scoots ready to ride.

I'll second the above. Get them back to the dealer and insist that they fix the problem. You paid for a warranty in their purchase price so stop trying to solve the problem yourself. Use your warranty to obtain the satisfaction that you're entitled to.

Bill in Seattle
'12 Buddy 170i Oxford Green
'14 Hooligan 170i Matte Green

So guys, I finally got the scooter to the coast for the dealer to look at. I also picked up some new Roughhouses.

Well, the roughhouses (2018's) started up beautifully. Idles a little high until warmed up and was good to go!

The Buddy was looked at and the dealer adjusted the a/f ratio (took welch plug off) and it, too, was running pretty good there.

Brought all three back to 4000' elevation and the behavior is totally different. All 3 start with low idle (light flicker) and struggle to warm up rather than idle higher than normal and then settling down. I did adjust the idle speed when warm, but still.

What the heck? Should I have to adjust a/f on every one of these to get the running right? Making the Genzie sound like a better route.

Thanks!
Matt

scootbwh wrote:So guys, I finally got the scooter to the coast for the dealer to look at. I also picked up some new Roughhouses.

Well, the roughhouses (2018's) started up beautifully. Idles a little high until warmed up and was good to go!

The Buddy was looked at and the dealer adjusted the a/f ratio (took welch plug off) and it, too, was running pretty good there.

Brought all three back to 4000' elevation and the behavior is totally different. All 3 start with low idle (light flicker) and struggle to warm up rather than idle higher than normal and then settling down. I did adjust the idle speed when warm, but still.

What the heck? Should I have to adjust a/f on every one of these to get the running right? Making the Genzie sound like a better route.

Thanks!
Matt

What's a "Genzie"? Are you a scooter rental agency? You make it sound so casual when you say "I also picked up some new Roughhouses" on your trip back to the dealer. BTW, with the elevation difference you're facing, your carb adjusting problems make a good argument for EFI rather than carburetor.

Bill in Seattle

It might be useful for you to note where you are based in your profile as most other members do. I don't find it unusual that a carbed 2T would need to be retuned for a 3,600' difference in elevation. If that is not something you could do, someone else here may be able to suggest a local shop with the right skills or might offer to help you.

skipper20 wrote:

scootbwh wrote:So guys, I finally got the scooter to the coast for the dealer to look at. I also picked up some new Roughhouses.

Well, the roughhouses (2018's) started up beautifully. Idles a little high until warmed up and was good to go!

The Buddy was looked at and the dealer adjusted the a/f ratio (took welch plug off) and it, too, was running pretty good there.

Brought all three back to 4000' elevation and the behavior is totally different. All 3 start with low idle (light flicker) and struggle to warm up rather than idle higher than normal and then settling down. I did adjust the idle speed when warm, but still.

What the heck? Should I have to adjust a/f on every one of these to get the running right? Making the Genzie sound like a better route.

Thanks!
Matt

What's a "Genzie"? Are you a scooter rental agency? You make it sound so casual when you say "I also picked up some new Roughhouses" on your trip back to the dealer. BTW, with the elevation difference you're facing, your carb adjusting problems make a good argument for EFI rather than carburetor.

Bill in Seattle

Hey Bill! You got it! I rent scooters/motorcycles in Bend, OR.

I agree, EFI would be awesome...which is also why I mentioned the GenZe, which is an electric scooter. Very fun, but limited in distance, however, the startup is flawless and they are quick little things.