Modern Buddy

Any and all opinions welcome on the pros and cons of riding a Buddy 50 vs a Roughhouse 50 on long trips, like 1000 miles. Comfort, ease of repair, etc. (I am also considering the Buddy 125 as well but the extra $600 is a big deal to me and I am in no rush to get anywhere.)

They would be new so I understand the roadside assistance would be a big plus.

And what price should I expect to pay out the door over MSRP or $2000? Tips on haggling get bonus likes.

Also, if anyone wants to throw their two cents in about the Zuma 50 I will be glad to hear it. The only reason I am looking at the Zuma as well is that they have a lot more dealers and repair centers.

personally i would go for something used with a bigger engine, bigger tires and more comfortable...save some cash and get a more enjoyable ride if you plan to ride that far

RH is going to be a smoother and more robust ride than the Buddy 50. It has bigger tires and is a bit more substantial. You don't say how big you are, or what kind of route you plan on taking. Yamaha changed the Zuma 50 in 2012. It has the same size of tires as a Roughnouse, and is a similar size. The Zuma is 3 valve, water coolded, fuel injected 4 stroke. It is the most technologically advance 50cc you can buy. It comes heavily restricted from the dealer. For $50 in parts and an afternoon in your garage, you can make the Zuma do an honest 45 on straight aways with awesome acceleration and hill climbing. Being a water cooled 4 stroke, you can ride it for hours on end wide open. Other's opinions will vary, but I'd take a RH over a Buddy, and a new Zuma above Genuine.
Dollar for dollar, the Buddy 125 is the best scooter you can buy. It will do 55 to 60mph all day long, and will last 40+ thousand miles with routine maintenance.
Where I live, a 50cc costs $5.85 for three years to register, and you do not need a M endorsement. Really comes down to what your needs are, and what you can afford.

HanShan wrote:Any and all opinions welcome on the pros and cons of riding a Buddy 50 vs a Roughhouse 50 on long trips, like 1000 miles. Comfort, ease of repair, etc. (I am also considering the Buddy 125 as well but the extra $600 is a big deal to me and I am in no rush to get anywhere.)

They would be new so I understand the roadside assistance would be a big plus.

And what price should I expect to pay out the door over MSRP or $2000? Tips on haggling get bonus likes.

Also, if anyone wants to throw their two cents in about the Zuma 50 I will be glad to hear it. The only reason I am looking at the Zuma as well is that they have a lot more dealers and repair centers.

For the price of a new 50, no matter the make and model, you could buy a gently used 125 - 170 which would be much safer and more suitable for a 1,000 mile trip. Roadside assistance? It isn't going to help you much when you've got a big pickup truck or SUV crawling up your backside because you're barely keeping up with the speed limit.

Bill in Seattle

DeeDee wrote:Dollar for dollar, the Buddy 125 is the best scooter you can buy. It will do 55 to 60mph all day long, and will last 40+ thousand miles with routine maintenance.

This is the best advice anyone here can give you. There are better scooters out there, but there are not better scooters out there for the money. The B125 will actually go the distance.

The 125 is a 4-stroke engine which is much better suited to long distance travel.

If you decide to stick with a 50cc it would be a tough choice between a Rough House and a Zuma 4 stroke. I love 2 strokes and have taken my stock (38mph max) 98 Zuma on some pretty far rides, so I would pick a Rough House. DeeDee did make a very valid point for the Zuma though. You can find a used Zuma 4 stroke for a great deal if you look around. All your possible choices are quality scoots, so I wouldnt worry about roadside service swaying your choice.

Even my wife's Buddy 125 would not be the best long distance companion. With oil changes every 621 miles!

I think my Burgman 400 is the minimum ride for "long distance" trips. You need horsepower to keep sane on highways. Sure the Buddy will do 60+ but it doesn't have the HP needed for a long haul.

I had a '05 Concours, 100 HP, that made for a great long distance horse.

So, just more information. I am 5'10" and 150 lbs. I have ridden 50's long distance before, all over the Olympic Peninsula. Those of you who know route 101, I rode that on a 50 that was way worse than a buddy so... I am not afraid of cars being on my ass since I have the same right to be on the road. I pull over for them when I can but most people are nice and respect me. I would just be happy with any bike that could do 200 mile days, no matter how slow. I am thinking about a long and slow ride, like 3 months, up to Washington State from NC. I am on permanent disability and housing in my area has become un-affordable so I need to move but do not know where yet so i hope to find somewhere on my way out.

If I had the extra $1000 I would get the Hooligan without even thinking about it.

I think the warranty and roadside assistance are big for me since I do not have much of a cash buffer if things go wrong. The peace of mind the extra money I spend is mostly worth it. There are not may bikes for sale in my area right now either. There is one Roughhouse but they are not responding to my emails.

None of the dealers near me sell the 125cc or even the Holligan. They haev some 170's but not many.

I sat on a Roughhouse today at a dealer and the seat is WAY more comfortable than the Buddy. The ergonomics seem better for me as well. The had a '15 Roughhouse with 6000 miles they wanted $1800 for out the door. They also had this 170i

https://raleigh.craigslist.org/mcd/d/20 ... 98563.html

But 16,000 miles, seems like a lot to start with. Is it? They want $1995, I could probably get them down a little. It already has a rack which is nice.

I am also going to test ride this tomorrow:
https://raleigh.craigslist.org/mcy/d/20 ... 76741.html

I love the amount of storage and the guy seems legit. So far this seems my best option.

No answer from this ad yet either for a '15 Zuma 50FX:
https://raleigh.craigslist.org/mcy/d/ge ... 24427.html

The lack of Buddy's in stock at these dealer's, along with the closure of many Buddy dealers is a concern. It is making me think I should avoid my much beloved Buddy, or at least get a common 50cc that will be easy to work on and find parts for,

That 2015 zuma with 1,200 miles is a great deal. The engine in that will outlast a 2 stroke engine 3 to 1.

Honestly on a Buddy, Roughhouse or Zuma warranty should weigh very little. All 3 are high quality scooters. The only time I'm left stranded is when I pick up a deck screw in my rear tire. Warranty won't help with that one.

That Zuma is nice, and so is that Forza. So, I guess it comes down to size (cc) and operating cost (50cc vs. M class). Tough choice you have there.

Mike1nw wrote:Even my wife's Buddy 125 would not be the best long distance companion. With oil changes every 621 miles!

Why are you changing oil every 621 miles on a Buddy 125?

DeeDee wrote:That 2015 zuma with 1,200 miles is a great deal. The engine in that will outlast a 2 stroke engine 3 to 1.

Honestly on a Buddy, Roughhouse or Zuma warranty should weigh very little. All 3 are high quality scooters. The only time I'm left stranded is when I pick up a deck screw in my rear tire. Warranty won't help with that one.

The Zuma was sold already. I want to scream at people who leave their Craigslist ads up.

However, I am checking out the Roughhouse tomorrow. $1500, 1000 miles. But they stopped texting when I asked if they had a clean title so...

sc00ter wrote:That Zuma is nice, and so is that Forza. So, I guess it comes down to size (cc) and operating cost (50cc vs. M class). Tough choice you have there.

Yeah, the long term cost/risk. That is what is hanging me up. I love riding 50's, more than the bigger bikes. No idea why. I love going slow. I sold my last car in 2000 and never looked back. I was forced to drive today and it turns me into a raging cager.

Mike1nw wrote:Even my wife's Buddy 125 would not be the best long distance companion. With oil changes every 621 miles!

I think my Burgman 400 is the minimum ride for "long distance" trips. You need horsepower to keep sane on highways. Sure the Buddy will do 60+ but it doesn't have the HP needed for a long haul.

I had a '05 Concours, 100 HP, that made for a great long distance horse.

I have done 400 miles in one day on a Buddy 125. On a regular basis I do 300 miles plus in a day. I could go further if I wasn't stopping to take pictures or check out cool stuff all the time.

The Buddy 125 doesn't need more HP it just needs a bigger gas tank...

scootERIK wrote:I have done 400 miles in one day on a Buddy 125. On a regular basis I do 300 miles plus in a day. I could go further if I wasn't stopping to take pictures or check out cool stuff all the time.

The Buddy 125 doesn't need more HP it just needs a bigger gas tank...

That's a lot!
I never ride that far.

But, yes, you can get PLENTY of distance on a Buddy 125.

I carry a 1 gal. spare in the pet carrier and a couple of 1 liter canisters hanging off the helmet hooks. That's a pretty good range... 220+ miles?

in my opinion that RH is drastically overpriced for having 6,000 miles. I picked up a 15 month old one with 68 miles for $1,000. I had to remove and clean the tank and replace the battery. It was mint.

"Why are you changing oil every 621 miles on a Buddy 125?"

We bought it (a 2009) with 326 miles.

The OM states to "replace every 1000 kM" which is about 621 miles. I changed it when we got it home (at 370 miles) and it was as black as tar.

It takes only 900 cc so I don't mind the 621 mile spec, if it is correct.

Mike1nw wrote:"Why are you changing oil every 621 miles on a Buddy 125?"

We bought it (a 2009) with 326 miles.

The OM states to "replace every 1000 kM" which is about 621 miles. I changed it when we got it home (at 370 miles) and it was as black as tar.

It takes only 900 cc so I don't mind the 621 mile spec, if it is correct.

I think you need to re-read the owners manual...

DeeDee wrote:in my opinion that RH is drastically overpriced for having 6,000 miles. I picked up a 15 month old one with 68 miles for $1,000. I had to remove and clean the tank and replace the battery. It was mint.

I agree. But I also think you were lucky.

HanShan wrote:

Mike1nw wrote:"Why are you changing oil every 621 miles on a Buddy 125?"
We bought it (a 2009) with 326 miles. The OM states to "replace every 1000 kM" which is about 621 miles. I changed it when we got it home (at 370 miles) and it was as black as tar.
It takes only 900 cc so I don't mind the 621 mile spec, if it is correct.

I think you need to re-read the owners manual...

The Buddy manual (50/125/170i) says change the oil in the 4Ts at 1800 miles and the filter at 3600 miles. My oil looks pretty good when I change it at about 2000. I use a full synthetic, the new bikes come with a break-in oil.

I test rode the Forza this morning. It was fine. My Blur was faster off the line, but that's not important. Very comfortable and a smooth, quiet ride. It definitely needed a new from tire and probably brake pads. So even if I get him down to $2000 it will end up costing at least $2400 to get it in shape and registered. At that point I would rather buy a new roughhouse or Zuma.

Also spotted this today which I would buy in a second. They said they still have it but are being slow in responding. I sent them an email with my phone number attached and they replied; "Yes, i still have it. Send your number so I can text you."

=/

https://raleigh.craigslist.org/mcy/d/20 ... 73501.html

I gotta ask, why did you sell a Blur to begin with? Then, why looking at other scooter around the same size? Just curious. I have downsized, from sport bikes to 50cc scooters, then went back up in cc displacement. Blur's are the standard for twist and turn fun!

I’ve done long days on a buddy 125 and Rh50. For comfort I will take the roughhouse any day. You have 3 good riding positions (10 if you do stupid things), wide tires with big sidewalls to eat bumps and potholes, and easy places to tie all the junk you drag along. Reliability wise, both 50’s are tough little monsters. Keep oil in them and treat the fuel, they will hold up just fine.

Obviously, bigger motors are better blah blah blah ( I have a Honda Valkyrie Touring parked right beside my roughhouse , and it’s a toss up what I’m gonna ride every time I go out). There are things you will see, and experiences you will have, on a 50cc that you won’t have on anything faster.
You can do touring and adventure rides on small machines- you just plan differently. The best scoot/bike/moped is the one you are riding.

sc00ter wrote:I gotta ask, why did you sell a Blur to begin with? Then, why looking at other scooter around the same size? Just curious. I have downsized, from sport bikes to 50cc scooters, then went back up in cc displacement. Blur's are the standard for twist and turn fun!

I am not that interested in getting another over 50cc bike. The Forza was interesting for its' storage. The Blur was lacking in storage and parts are harder to get and more expensive. Plus the maintenance and tuning on it is over my head. If I was going to get a bigger CC bike I would either get a Yamaha or Honda since dealers are more common.

But I decided yesterday to stick with the 50cc.

Stitch wrote:I’ve done long days on a buddy 125 and Rh50. For comfort I will take the roughhouse any day. You have 3 good riding positions (10 if you do stupid things), wide tires with big sidewalls to eat bumps and potholes, and easy places to tie all the junk you drag along. Reliability wise, both 50’s are tough little monsters. Keep oil in them and treat the fuel, they will hold up just fine.

Obviously, bigger motors are better blah blah blah ( I have a Honda Valkyrie Touring parked right beside my roughhouse , and it’s a toss up what I’m gonna ride every time I go out). There are things you will see, and experiences you will have, on a 50cc that you won’t have on anything faster.
You can do touring and adventure rides on small machines- you just plan differently. The best scoot/bike/moped is the one you are riding.

Yes, I agree. I have decided yesterday on getting a Roughhouse if I get anything. Why? No oil changes (Unlike the Zuma), most seating comfort, comes with a rear rack, fatty tires.

And I am going new because "Trust no one".

You still have gear oil changes.

Wondering what you though of this invoice for a 2018 Roughhouse. $2460 out the door (not including registration). Yes, I am aware that says it is for a Buddy 50, but he said the Roughhouse would be the same.

Stitch wrote:You still have gear oil changes.

Yes. But easy, not as messy, and not as often. I did them before myself.

Msrp is $2k for the regular Rh50. Add in destination fees and the rest and that’s in that range.

I hear you on the cost of ownership and parts. That Forza was a good deal though, at least by judging from the ad. Now, you have to remember that hidden cost seem to be a fact of life when buying new. I know one dealer that tried the "Out the door" cost, but last time I was there they did away with it. We have a dealer here that after all hidden cost are added a new Zuma 50cc is over $3700! Destination charge, set-up fee, origination fee, registration fee (yet YOU go to DMV for the tag!), office fee (same as a origination fee?) and something else Im forgetting. If I ran out of 2 stroke oil in front of that dealer, I would PUSH my scooter and get oil from someone else! We call them Suckle World!

Wait! Why would you need fuel treatment if you use ethanol free fuel? Also, never heard of a "carb warranty" that is voided from using ethanol based fuel, UNLESS you have those crazy blender pumps that can add more then 10% ethanol to the blend. Some dealer is trying everything to get out of a warranty claim! We should have a new thread started on our purchase results. I got ding donged on my Burgman 200 purchase. Gave them a bad Google review and they CALLED ME at home asking why! I told them to enjoy their profit and shut up. Outside of the fuel treatment and "carb warranty" that $80 set-up, $40 de-restrict and $150 destination fee it seems normal to other dealerships.

sc00ter wrote:Wait! Why would you need fuel treatment if you use ethanol free fuel? Also, never heard of a "carb warranty" that is voided from using ethanol based fuel, UNLESS you have those crazy blender pumps that can add more then 10% ethanol to the blend. Some dealer is trying everything to get out of a warranty claim! We should have a new thread started on our purchase results. I got ding donged on my Burgman 200 purchase. Gave them a bad Google review and they CALLED ME at home asking why! I told them to enjoy their profit and shut up. Outside of the fuel treatment and "carb warranty" that $80 set-up, $40 de-restrict and $150 destination fee it seems normal to other dealerships.

Yeah, that Carb Warranty was strange to me to. My thinking is that they put it on there to make it contractual.Think I should bring it up to the Genuine Corp and see what they think?

I know ethanol causes warpage of floats and rotting of gaskets, but if the product (scooter, mower, string trimmer, etc) get used regularly and doesn't just sit for endless months not used its ok to use. If you contact Genuine please let us know what they say. Im curious to!

sc00ter wrote:I know ethanol causes warpage of floats and rotting of gaskets, but if the product (scooter, mower, string trimmer, etc) get used regularly and doesn't just sit for endless months not used its ok to use. If you contact Genuine please let us know what they say. Im curious to!

I sent them an email a little while ago so we will see. If I buy it I am going to buy it on Thursday and I will probably just tell them to take those parts out,

sc00ter wrote:I know ethanol causes warpage of floats and rotting of gaskets, but if the product (scooter, mower, string trimmer, etc) get used regularly and doesn't just sit for endless months not used its ok to use.

Damage to gaskets and other engine and fuel system components really only occurs in older engines designed before gasoline with ethanol came into regular use. In modern engines the primary concern is that ethanol supplemented fuels can gum up in the fuel tank and carb when the bike sits for an extended period.

Ethanol also deteriorates the oil seals. Remember that in a 2T motor the fuel and oil flow through the crank case so seals are exposed to ethanol which can lead to air leaks and other unpleasant things.

I add about an ounce of seafoam to every tank on my 2T motors

Oil changes on a 4T motor is a little bit of work but remember that a quart of quality synthetic 2T oil is about $16

BuddyRaton wrote:Ethanol also deteriorates the oil seals. Remember that in a 2T motor the fuel and oil flow through the crank case so seals are exposed to ethanol which can lead to air leaks and other unpleasant things.

I add about an ounce of seafoam to every tank on my 2T motors

Oil changes on a 4T motor is a little bit of work but remember that a quart of quality synthetic 2T oil is about $16

I would agree with you about the ethanol being an issue with the seals but no idea why they would say it has anything to do withe the carb in that case and why it would void some warranty,

I tell ya, I am still torn between spending the extra $600 of a Zuma or just getting the Roughhouse. I am really just making excuses to myself so I do not buy the Zuma.

Anyone know anything about the Lance PCH 125? Only $1900, made by Sym, maybe I have another contender?

https://www.lancepowersports.com/models/pch125.

But only three dealers in the U.S. Ugh.

The lance stuff is decent. Its a SYM with cheaper body parts/suspension. Sym makes good stuff.

Even with ethanol issues a Buddy 50 is a good scooter. I wouldn't be surprised if all 2T scooters have that in the fine print somewhere.

If you''re going 2T it's just something to learn to deal with and then it's not a big deal.

Ethanol attracts water. That’s the biggest problem. Algea and bacteria like it then. They grow, and clog stuff up. Fuel injection solves a lot of that issue. It’s also hard on some plastics, rubber, some fuel tank linings and fuel pumps.

A little splash of k100 or startron in the tank when you get fuel, and ethanol is a non-issue. Seriously, I run whatever fuel is convenient. I don’t winterize. I haven’t cleaned a carb in seven years, which probably has nothing to do with the two additives I use interchangeably.

HanShan wrote:Wondering what you though of this invoice for a 2018 Roughhouse. $2460 out the door (not including registration). Yes, I am aware that says it is for a Buddy 50, but he said the Roughhouse would be the same.

I paid $2,675 for my brand new Buddy 50. So yeah, you made out alright lol.

If you need dead reliability on a budget, check out the Kymco Agility 125 and the Super 8 150. Kymco has dealers all over thanks to their ATV sales and they have a 2-year unlimited mile warranty.

I did a 300mi day ride on an Agility - wide open throttle all day of course. The newer Super 8 is a 151cc with a bit more pep. Sometimes you can find Agility 125's real cheap since they're not a hot seller. And yeah, the stickers come off

Stitch wrote:The lance stuff is decent. Its a SYM with cheaper body parts/suspension. Sym makes good stuff.

As I understand it, the Lance models sold by Sym are assembled in mainland China and are a step down in quality from the Taiwan built Syms. I agree that Sym builds a good scooter. In my area service and parts can be something of an issue, however.

OK, so I am fluctuation between the Roughhouse and the Zuma, but those are my last two choices.

Being that I will be riding long distances and constant speeds more often than not, I am wondering if I should favor the Zuma's 4 stroke and liquid cooling and larger dealer network. I also like that the fuel access is on the floorboard. What concerns me is the power being that I will have camping gear, maybe adding 50lbs to my 150lbs body.

Thoughts? Or am I over blowing the difference? I am thinking the $600 extra dollars in my pocket when I buy the Roughhouse will be more useful.

HanShan. I PMd you

Depends on how long you plan to own it, and how many miles you will put on it per year. Yamaha has been refining the Zuma drivetrain since 2007. The Zuma 50 will get 115 mpg and the engine will last 40,000 miles with routine maintenance. Parts are easy to get and service is widespread if you can not work on it yourself. Being fuel injected and watercooled, the Zuma can go for extended periods wide open. I've owned two of the XF50 drivetrains in C3s. My cureent scooter is about to hit 22,000 miles. The only thing I have had to replace other than routine maintenance was a coolant sensor at 19,000. It caused the temperature warning light to come on. I pretty much follow Yamaha's maintenance schedule w/ the exception of valve adjustments. I've yet to check them. I've done air intake and CVT mods to de-restrict it. It will pull an honest 45 on long straights, and take hills at 35 that I used to drop down to 18mph before the mods. I traded the last one when it hit 20,000. The new owner is still riding it. Yamaha makes an amazing robust scooter. I owned a RH50 for a while. Good scooter, but no Yamaha.

DeeDee wrote:Depends on how long you plan to own it, and how many miles you will put on it per year. Yamaha has been refining the Zuma drivetrain since 2007. The Zuma 50 will get 115 mpg and the engine will last 40,000 miles with routine maintenance. Parts are easy to get and service is widespread if you can not work on it yourself. Being fuel injected and watercooled, the Zuma can go for extended periods wide open. I've owned two of the XF50 drivetrains in C3s. My cureent scooter is about to hit 22,000 miles. The only thing I have had to replace other than routine maintenance was a coolant sensor at 19,000. It caused the temperature warning light to come on. I pretty much follow Yamaha's maintenance schedule w/ the exception of valve adjustments. I've yet to check them. I've done air intake and CVT mods to de-restrict it. It will pull an honest 45 on long straights, and take hills at 35 that I used to drop down to 18mph before the mods. I traded the last one when it hit 20,000. The new owner is still riding it. Yamaha makes an amazing robust scooter. I owned a RH50 for a while. Good scooter, but no Yamaha.

You mentioned owning a RH50. How did you handle losing that 2T pep? Unless you're driving an old Zuma, it's going to be a 4T and those can't even touch 2T when it comes to power.

I would love the added longevity of a 4T engine but I can't give up that 2T might.