New to me 2007 Buddy 125, rebuilt carb, ran great now nothin

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slupcho
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New to me 2007 Buddy 125, rebuilt carb, ran great now nothin

Post by slupcho »

I acquired a 2007 Buddy 125 from a friend. Traded for a helmet I was not using. He had it for his daughter that is away at college. The bike has not run since 2013. I replaced the battery, pulled the carb and cleaned all the jets, ports, etc. Replaced what I refer to as the idle jet. Stock 38. Changed all fluids, and spark plug. The scoot fired right up and ran great for about three days. I was truly impressed at how damn fun these scooters are.

Then yesterday it was a very hard start. Got it going but it was somewhat sluggish. Took it around the neighbourhood and it started misbehaving with sputters an just overall poor performance. When I turned it off, it had a hard time starting again. Then it started and just for experimentation, I turned it off...restarted (right on queue) then more sputtering. Now it will not start.

I'm going to pull the carb again as I believe this is the most likely culprit. My question is are there issues know to this model for the carb? And what is the "auto bystart assembly" unit that plugs into the wiring harness? I think it may be this item that is causing the issues but I'm not certain as I really do not even know what this damn thing is?

Any help or suggestions are welcome. Thank you in advance.
slupcho
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Fuel pump?

Post by slupcho »

So I think that the fuel pump may actually be the culprit. Did not realize that these little bikes use fule pumps.

I've got a new one ordered regardless. I think that after 11 years it is most likely a good idea to replace this item for $35 anyway.
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Post by Dage'sVew »

You might try moving this thread to the "General Discussion" forum. More of the gear heads will see it there and you'll have a better chance of getting help. :) Oh, and welcome to MB!!
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Christophers
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Re: Fuel pump?

Post by Christophers »

slupcho wrote:So I think that the fuel pump may actually be the culprit. Did not realize that these little bikes use fule pumps.

I've got a new one ordered regardless. I think that after 11 years it is most likely a good idea to replace this item for $35 anyway.
Fuel pump? 2007 Buddy 125?
Post a link to the item that you ordered.
(And a pic or two of your Buddy ~ You did opt to post in the scooter gallery forum after all ;)
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Post by jrsjr »

Moved to General Discussion Forum.
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Re: New to me 2007 Buddy 125, rebuilt carb, ran great now no

Post by Dooglas »

slupcho wrote: And what is the "auto bystart assembly" unit that plugs into the wiring harness? I think it may be this item that is causing the issues but I'm not certain as I really do not even know what this damn thing is?
Some call this the "enricher", some call it the automatic choke. Helps with cold starts.
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Post by Stanza »

These don't use a fuel pump, it's just an on/off valve that lets the gas gravity feed down to the carb. Next time it happens, try taking the cap off the gas tank and listen for a hiss. It's possible that you are vacuum locking.

If not that, then you need another carb clean. Might be that there's still some debris in the carburetor bowl that's getting sucked up against the jets while you're riding.
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Post by DeeDee »

Giving you fits 3 days after getting on the road, makes me believe 1) diaphraghm may not have been fully seated and has come loose or 2) Crap worked it's way back into your carb. Did you replace the fuel filter and clean the tank during your work? Might not hurt to test the petcock. It's easy enough to do.
personality
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Post by personality »

My guess is more junk from the tank loosened up and is clogging the carb. Probably want to clean out the carb again and maybe the tank if you can.
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Post by slupcho »

Thanks for the replies and suggestions. Learning as I go. I have a garage full of motorcycles. Everything from 70's era vintage Jap two strokes, to modern custom choppers. Each model seems to have its unique aspects, but basically all the same, gas-spark-transmission.

The consensus seems to be to check the carb again which is what I'll do later today. Definitely some type of fueling issue. I did not replace the fuel filter but I did drain all of the old gas via a syphon. May be that some junk was just left behind.

Thanks again. I'll try to post up some pics when she's all sorted. I've found a new passion for scooters. I can't believe how much fun these things are.
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Post by Stanza »

Throw on a new inline filter, they're cheap peace-of-mind
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Post by JettaKnight »

So what about that mysterious fuel pump?
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Post by lovemysan »

I would verify its getting fuel first. The vacuum petcock or vacuum source for the petcock could be the issue. If it has fuel I would make sure its not overflowing through the needle and seat(This is what I think it is) As above check the condition of the carb diaphragm to make sure it hasnt torn. You can check the enricher by, on a cold engine, remove and hold the enricher in one hand and plugging the hole in the carb with a thumb, Have an assistant start the bike and observe the needle. I believe it should extend. Bad enricher would generally start normally and run poorly warmed up or hard start and then run normally once warm. But usually not together. Be careful pulling it they break.
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Post by babblefish »

JettaKnight wrote:So what about that mysterious fuel pump?
Bad translation in the service manual for "fuel petcock".
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Post by JettaKnight »

babblefish wrote:
JettaKnight wrote:So what about that mysterious fuel pump?
Bad translation in the service manual for "fuel petcock".
Mystery solved! High fives!
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What gives???

Post by slupcho »

So I've put in a new "fuel petcock" and a new fuel filter. Pulled the carb AGAIN and cleaned all ports, jets etc. The scoot will start but then idle rough or just die. It will start up again and then die?? What gives? I'm pretty confident that all the ports are free and clear. I must have some type of maladjustment. The really weird thing is that this scoot ran great for three days. Now, with no real change, it's not running for crap. I'm convinced its a fuel issue just not sure where the issue lies.

What about this automatic choke gizmo??

And what is standard adjustment "OUT" for fuel screw?
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Post by DeeDee »

Are you sure the diaphragm is completely seated?
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Post by babblefish »

Factory setting for idle mixture screw (not idle speed screw) is 1.5 turns out. Screwing it in richens the mixture.
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slupcho
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Post by slupcho »

DeeDee wrote:Are you sure the diaphragm is completely seated?
Diaphram looks to be in like new condition and I am pretty careful about putting it back together. I've got both a 1976 BMW R90/6 and a 1973 BMWR60/5. I've rebuilt the carbs on both these bikes multiple times so I'm fairly aware of the nuances of diaphragms. At least with the old BING carbs.

It really puzzles me that I can put it back together, starts right up, idles perfectly, will run for a few miles like new. Then it begins to sputter but may self-correct. It may stall at a stop light but if I start it again, (which it always does) it may run fine for a few miles or not??

Sumpin' fishy. Since I am fairly confident that all of the ports are open and the float and float needle seem to be operating as they should, maybe this electronic "auto choke.????? I'm at a loss at this point.
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Post by DeeDee »

The diaphragm can look perfectly seated, and still let air in. Use the search function to read more. Look up the long thread on stator problems looking like a carburetor problem.
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Post by slupcho »

The scoot was basically free so I grew tired of running down a rabbit hole. Just dropped $300 for a new "Buddy" 125 carb and auto-choke. I wanted to know that these were not the problem. Just put them in and seems to be running great! If this turns out to be the problem, well...I've spent $300 on much less meaningful things. And now I know that these should be good for years to come. So any future issues these components should be able to be eliminated.
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Post by BuddyRaton »

slupcho wrote:The scoot was basically free so I grew tired of running down a rabbit hole. Just dropped $300 for a new "Buddy" 125 carb and auto-choke. I wanted to know that these were not the problem. Just put them in and seems to be running great! If this turns out to be the problem, well...I've spent $300 on much less meaningful things. And now I know that these should be good for years to come. So any future issues these components should be able to be eliminated.
Nice score!
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'06 Cream Buddy 125, 11 Blur 220, 13 BMW C 650 GT, 68 Vespa SS180, 64 Vespa GS MK II, 65 Lambretta TV 175, 67 Vespa GT, 64 Vespa 150 VBB 64 Vespa GL
slupcho
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Post by slupcho »

slupcho wrote:The scoot was basically free so I grew tired of running down a rabbit hole. Just dropped $300 for a new "Buddy" 125 carb and auto-choke. I wanted to know that these were not the problem. Just put them in and seems to be running great! If this turns out to be the problem, well...I've spent $300 on much less meaningful things. And now I know that these should be good for years to come. So any future issues these components should be able to be eliminated.
DAMN IT!! What is up with this thing? So for the first few days with the new carb, the scoot ran great! Now it is having the same issues that I experienced when I first rebuilt the carb. At that time, it ran great for about three days then started having stalling issues an intermittent running problems.

So here's the breakdown;
-New spark plug
-New Carburetor with Auto choke.
-New Fuel Petcock.
-New Fuel filter.
-Valves adjusted.
-Complete new fuel flush.
-All hoses checked for leaks, poor connections etc.
-Idle set while scoot ran well.
-Since I am at about 6,000 above sea level, air/fuel adjusted to achieve proper running. (1/3 in).

After sitting overnight, I can start it up no problem. If I let it idle, within about 3-4 minutes the engine dies. It will immediately start up again but then die. The startup will become progressively more difficult until it won't start.

Now the most puzzling thing to me is that it ran great for a few days and now it is not???? No changes made to anything. What the hell am I missing? I know it is going to end up being some minor thing, but for the life of me, I am at a loss on where to go at this point.
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Post by lovemysan »

I would check the condition of the spark when cold. Then check it once it will no longer start and run. It sounds like a bad stator, ignition pickup, coil or cdi.
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Post by slupcho »

lovemysan wrote:I would check the condition of the spark when cold. Then check it once it will no longer start and run. It sounds like a bad stator, ignition pickup, coil or cdi.
Yep, I'm thinking this may be the culprit. I HATE electrical issues!
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Post by jrsjr »

lovemysan wrote:I would check the condition of the spark when cold. Then check it once it will no longer start and run. It sounds like a bad stator, ignition pickup, coil or cdi.
And, just to clarify, because this has caused a lot of confusion in the past, on the Buddy, the ignition pickup coil is part of the stator assembly, even though they are technically two separate parts. So, when folks here talk about changing out a "bad stator," it's very possible that the culprit was the ignition coil which was part of the stator assembly. We have seen intermittent cases which mimic carb/fuel problems.

P.S. Also, I know this is going to sound elementary, but we've also seen cases where a loose spark plug wire caused intermittent running issues so make sure that thing is secure, making good contact inside the cap, etc.

Good Luck!!!
slupcho
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Post by slupcho »

jrsjr wrote:
lovemysan wrote:I would check the condition of the spark when cold. Then check it once it will no longer start and run. It sounds like a bad stator, ignition pickup, coil or cdi.
And, just to clarify, because this has caused a lot of confusion in the past, on the Buddy, the ignition pickup coil is part of the stator assembly, even though they are technically two separate parts. So, when folks here talk about changing out a "bad stator," it's very possible that the culprit was the ignition pickup coil which was part of the stator assembly. We have seen intermittent cases which mimic carb/fuel problems.

P.S. Also, I know this is going to sound elementary, but we've also seen cases where a loose spark plug wire caused intermittent running issues so make sure that thing is secure, making good contact inside the cap, etc.

Good Luck!!!
I like elementary. It is always easiest and best to check the most simple possibilities first. And YES, since I did change out the spark plug I went back and made sure it was snug and cable secure with just a tad bit of electrode grease.

I was just checking the other connections to what looks to be the coil? The cable runs straight to the spark plug. I disconnected the red and black cables that connect to this, treated them with a tad o 'electrode grease, then made sure spark plug cable was secure and put everything back. For about 45 seconds the scoot ran perfectly, then stalling issues reared their ugly head once more.

I even pulled the carb once more just to double (OCD) confirm that there was no possible problem with the float or maybe the needle. All appears to be spot on.

So now I will proceed with checking stator tomorrow.

Thanks for all the suggestions.
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Post by babblefish »

Have you tried unscrewing the spark plug cap off of it's cable to check the condition of both the metal prong in the cap (that makes electrical contact with the inner core of the spark plug cable) and the core of the cable. Make sure neither one is burned or corroded. There's enough length in the cable to cut about 1/2" off to get to a clean part of the inner core for the spark plug cap to make contact with.

If you do decide to shotgun the coil, CDI, and/or stator, none are very expensive IF you don't buy OEM. I've found that the generic stuff off eBay works pretty well (as long as you don't buy the cheapest one's) for a lot less than OEM. Don't bother buying a so-called "performance" coil or CDI because you won't feel any difference.
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Update

Post by slupcho »

So I was (am) convinced that the most recent issues I have been having are related to the stator. I was about to pull the trigger and purchase an entire performance upgrade package. I called Scooter Dynasty in LA just to make certain that the kit I was about to purchase would indeed work with my Buddy 125. During the conversation, the rep suggested that before I try anything I should try just cleaning the stator. Well ... off to Walmart for the mack daddy CRC "Brakleen. No compromise here! I could have got the more generic "Super Tech" brake cleaner for $2.97 but I splurged the full $3.49 for the good stuff.

I pulled the flywheel, which was in a rather poor condition, then just loosed the stator and pick up. Placed a catch pan below and started to spray. I was actually quite surprised at how much debris came off. At first glance, it did not appear too bad, but the overflow would prove differently. I then used compressed air to blow everything dry. I used a steel rotating brush on my drill press to clean the inside of the flywheel. I'm sure this improved any semblance of pick up. Then I buttoned everything up, hit the starter and .... NOTHIN'!!!!

During this, I put a tender on the battery just to ensure that it was fully charged. So I thought to hell with it, I'll just keep cracking until the juice from the battery runs out or the starter burns up. Well after just a few frustrating minutes of cranking with absolutely no response at all, and calming down a bit, I thought I should at least pull the plug and just see if I had spark. No use ruining the starter if there is no evidence of spark. Sure enough, bright blue/white spark. Looked quite strong. So I replaced the plug and tried again. After another minute or so I caught a bark... WOO-HOO!! Signs of life!!!

A few more cranks and a slow idle. This persisted but every time I turned the throttle, instant death. I left it idle for another minute or so and now I could turn the throttle to higher revs but on deceleration, it would die. This goes on but I'll spare you the monotonous details.

To summarize, it finally came around and is now running as strong as ever. We'll see how long this might last. But if/once it fails again I'm going straight to replacing the stator.

Thanks to everyone that added their comments and also to Scooter Dynasty for loosing a sale but getting a customer for life!
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Carb

Post by Beamster »

Even dealers have a hard time determining if carbs are fully clean with all the crud that ethanol fuel can cause. Stumped my Triumph dealer for sure until he swapped out the mechanic's carb rack and it cured the issue in my new (then) leftover Thunderbird. So Triumph paid to put three new carbs on a new leftover bike.
Apparently it's hard to know for sure.
Sounds like that was your experience too.
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Post by BuddyRaton »

Sounds like stator or pickup to me.

Many times they need to get warmed up before they start to fault. That's what makes you nuts...since it was running great it must be fuel right? Not necessarily...I have rebuilt a carb 3 times before...only to find out it was an electrical issue.
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'06 Cream Buddy 125, 11 Blur 220, 13 BMW C 650 GT, 68 Vespa SS180, 64 Vespa GS MK II, 65 Lambretta TV 175, 67 Vespa GT, 64 Vespa 150 VBB 64 Vespa GL
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Post by DeeDee »

Give this a read: http://www.modernbuddy.com/forum/viewto ... +mess+carb

You won't be the first person to get sucked into the stator void.
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