Modern Buddy

My 2009 Buddy 125 will not start in temps below 40 degrees. When I bought my Buddy 3 years ago, I installed a brand new OEM carb (new choke came on it), so I know the choke isn't the issue. The valves were recently adjusted, so it isn't a valve clearance issue. As soon as the temps go above 40 degrees, the bike starts right up. The choke is clearly engaged as you can hear the idle speed drop once it reaches operating temperature. For example, yesterday, it was 30 degrees in my garage. The bike would not start whatsoever. I fired up my 115K BTU torpedo heater, heated up the garage to around 50 degrees, and she started right up and idled like a dream. I did the same thing this morning and got the identical result.

Anyone else have a cold blooded Buddy 125?

What happens if you fast-turn the throttle a few times to squirt extra fuel via the accelerator pump?

Nothing. Makes no difference when it won't start.

That's bizarre. Starting fluid? It's probably a fuel/air issue, but have you checked for spark when it's super cold?

If you're using premium gas it may not have enough compression to light it off when that cold.

Stanza wrote:That's bizarre. Starting fluid? It's probably a fuel/air issue, but have you checked for spark when it's super cold?

I've never checked for spark when it's super cold. Maybe I should try that.

Thanks!

dasscooter wrote:If you're using premium gas it may not have enough compression to light it off when that cold.

I always use Regular 87 octane gas in my Buddys. The only scoots that take premium are my Vespas.

giddyup98......looks like you've got both a Buddy 125 and a Buddy 170i in your fleet.

Even though the 125 is giving you some fits now, which would you buy new if you were in the market for a new one?

fried okra

giddyup98 wrote:

dasscooter wrote:If you're using premium gas it may not have enough compression to light it off when that cold.

I always use Regular 87 octane gas in my Buddys. The only scoots that take premium are my Vespas.

Curious, why premium fuel in the vespas? Do they run poorly without? The last vespa I ever dealt with was the older ET2, and it didn't seem to care what you put in the tank.

Personally, I prefer my 125 over my wife's 170. Other than that real cold start issue, my Buddy 125 has been bulletproof. The 170 is a few miles an hour faster than my 125, but I like having the kickstarter as a back up in case my battery goes south. The kickstarter means more to me than the few mph I'm losing on the 125.

Stanza wrote:

giddyup98 wrote:

dasscooter wrote:If you're using premium gas it may not have enough compression to light it off when that cold.

I always use Regular 87 octane gas in my Buddys. The only scoots that take premium are my Vespas.

Curious, why premium fuel in the vespas? Do they run poorly without? The last vespa I ever dealt with was the older ET2, and it didn't seem to care what you put in the tank.

Maybe two stroke Vespa ET2's have different fuel requirements than four stroke Vespas? All I know is that the overwhelming majority of folks on the Modern Vespa forum state that premium fuel is required in Modern Vespas, as did my local service representative at the Vespa dealership.

not sure why your buddy is not wanting to light...I overcompensate for octane volatility loss before storing by using winter blend high octane gas & a quality stabilizer; my buddy only experiences a delay of a few seconds due to fuel evaporation from the carb after sitting for a long time...usually use 89 octane thru the riding season

I had a bad battery that did the same thing on my old Buddy 125. As soon as it dropped to around cold start choke temp, the battery didnt have enough power to turn it over. I just kick-started it till I got a new/better battery.

When you say it won't start when cold, do mean the engine won't run or the electric starter won't turn the engine over? Will it start if you use the kickstarter?

The starter engages and turns over fine. The battery is new and fully charged. The bike won't start even if I try using the kickstart. It's not a big deal for me because I don't ride in the winter, but I'd still like to figure out why this happens.

My guess is that you didn’t run the heater long enough to warm up the scooter components in a meaningful way, which would take a long time. And if heating the air makes the difference...the carb has to be running lean when cold, doesn’t it? It does suggest the possibility of a choke not engaging correctly. Is it possible the low speed jet has some gunk in it? If you really want to get into it and have ruled out a choke problem, you might also start tweaking the special fuel/air mixture ratio screw on the carb, but I would not recommend opening that can-o-worms just out of curiosity unless you need to use the scooter and are willing to fuss with it over time and a range of temperature conditions. Maybe see what happens if you increase the idle speed with the thumbwheel a little until the weather warms up?

Have you considered upjetting your low speed jet by a size or two? I did this on my Vespa S 150, which had a slightly smaller jet for the US market than the Euro/Asia configuration (perhaps for EPA purposes). It was easy, cheap, and the results were immediately apparent at idle and off the line. Took ten bucks, a screwdriver, and ten minutes (not counting twenty minutes admiring the guts of the carb). I did this in warmer weather but had zero issues with the colder temperatures this weekend - started up immediately, idled endlessly, ran smoothly.

I took my 2-stroke Buddy Italia 50 out for a spin on Sunday. She started up most rewardingly with a thick puff of pleasing blue smoke, but stalled once warmed up during idle, and didn’t respond to goosing the throttle as the stall began. Had to let the engine cool down for a few minutes before she’d start and hold again, presumably with the auto choke on. I think that is symptomatic of a textbook lean condition, expected in cold dense air, although why she would not respond to a bit of throttle is not clear to me. Once warmed up under use, no further issues. (I’d hoped to upjet this carb too but discovered on disassembly that some previous owner already had!)

PS: I don’t buy that premium-fuel-on-a-Vespa argument, especially on carbureted Vespas. Spend the money on fuel stabilizers.

giddyup98 wrote:All I know is that the overwhelming majority of folks on the Modern Vespa forum state that premium fuel is required in Modern Vespas, as did my local service representative at the Vespa dealership.

Yes, no doubt that the factory recommends higher octane in the modern Vespas (about 90-91 by US measure), and that my GTS runs better on mid to high octane fuel. I believe the compression ration of the Quasar engine in the GTS is about 10.5:1, while the compression ratio of the Buddy 125 is just over 9:1.

the mechanics among us can correct me if I'm way off base:

When my wife got her new buddy, it wouldn't start when hot. It cut out on her a few times. The shop charged us to look at it, but couldn't find anything wrong.

With it not being reliable, she didn't ride it much. Since she still had a small payment, I was irate and decided I was unlikely to make it worse. I changed the plug, coil, and checked the valves.

It was the valves that did it. They were so tight I thought I had the cylinder in the wrong position.

It's been reliable since.

I had the valves adjusted not too long ago by Bill Viney of Carlyle Scooters in Carlyle, PA. Bill is a scooter guru here in the northeast.

My 07 has similar behavior. I haven't tried to diagnose it, as I can usually goose it to start by goosing the accelerator a few times and then holding it cracked for a bit until it warms up. I'm pretty sure once I open it up, I'll either find that there is something partially blocking a jet, or that the the carb is jetted a little lean, as the bike was originally sold to a user living at altitude but now it's at sea level.

It only really bothers me in the last few rides of the year, so by the time I am motivated to fix it, I'm back in my Volvo drinking coffee and listening to NPR while I watch the rain and snow glide by on the windshield.

Look up how to clean the carb and go to town.

Hint:
http://www.modernbuddy.com/forum/topic17556.html

giddyup98 wrote:My 2009 Buddy 125 will not start in temps below 40 degrees. When I bought my Buddy 3 years ago, I installed a brand new OEM carb (new choke came on it), so I know the choke isn't the issue. The valves were recently adjusted, so it isn't a valve clearance issue. As soon as the temps go above 40 degrees, the bike starts right up. The choke is clearly engaged as you can hear the idle speed drop once it reaches operating temperature. For example, yesterday, it was 30 degrees in my garage. The bike would not start whatsoever. I fired up my 115K BTU torpedo heater, heated up the garage to around 50 degrees, and she started right up and idled like a dream. I did the same thing this morning and got the identical result.

Anyone else have a cold blooded Buddy 125?

While not a Buddy 125, I had the same problem with a vintage Honda Elite 150 also with a carburetor. When it got real cold in the garage, I had to turn on an electric space heater and put it a foot away from the scooter. After about 5 minutes the scooter started right up. Somebody suggested a faulty bystarter. Never did find out as spring came around and the warming weather solved the problem. Sold the scooter that summer which really solved the problem for me anyway.

Bill in Seattle
'84 Honda Gyro