Hooligan 170 vs Vespa GTS250

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Wasatch Scootah
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Hooligan 170 vs Vespa GTS250

Post by Wasatch Scootah »

Hopefully someone will chime in who has owned both.

I sold my Buddy 150 a couple years ago to get a Vespa 150. Worst decision. Vespa was so slow compared to the buddy.

I sold the Vespa and now looking for a slightly bigger scooter. Rides around here require I be on roads that exceed 50mph. The 150 could handle it but I’d like something that will cruise around that speed comfortably. So I am looking at maybe a 170 or maybe something bigger.

I will occasionally use it for commuting to work, which is only a 6 mile round trip. Most uses is cruising around. Maybe with one of my kids with me. Maybe a couple times a year, take one of the kids camping just up the canyon (not a long trip. Maybe 30 miles round trip).

Hooligan is cheaper. I am thinking that will work just fine. GTS looks nice but is much more expensive and perhaps more than what I need.

Any advice?
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Post by Guff »

Look around for a used GT200. I absolutely love mine. I ride on the highway with it at speed and its has plenty of power to get up the hills and mountains. You can usually find one relatively inexpensive.
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Re: Hooligan 170 vs Vespa GTS250

Post by skipper20 »

Wasatch Scootah wrote:Hopefully someone will chime in who has owned both.

I sold my Buddy 150 a couple years ago to get a Vespa 150. Worst decision. Vespa was so slow compared to the buddy.

I sold the Vespa and now looking for a slightly bigger scooter. Rides around here require I be on roads that exceed 50mph. The 150 could handle it but I’d like something that will cruise around that speed comfortably. So I am looking at maybe a 170 or maybe something bigger.

I will occasionally use it for commuting to work, which is only a 6 mile round trip. Most uses is cruising around. Maybe with one of my kids with me. Maybe a couple times a year, take one of the kids camping just up the canyon (not a long trip. Maybe 30 miles round trip).

Hooligan is cheaper. I am thinking that will work just fine. GTS looks nice but is much more expensive and perhaps more than what I need.

Any advice?
I owned 2 Hooligans, a '15 and a '16. The fuel-injected 170i engine was bullet-proof and cruised all day long at 55 mph GPS verified. Highly recommended.

Bill in Seattle
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Post by DeeDee »

Get the 250. Skip the step where you buy the Hooligan, spend time convincing yourself you made the right move, end up selling it and buying a Vespa anyway.

I'm a huge PGO fan, but come on. Steel bodied, Italian design. Lineage of where it all started. Be patient and hold out for the large frame modern Vespa. You won't regret it.
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Post by mjrally »

I’d say pickup a used 250 if the finances allow. Cheaper but still the same technology and HP to get you up to speed/ out of the way. That is unless you are physically limited and need something smaller/ lighter. In that case, I would buy the Hooligan since it will be a low miles, fun scoot.
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Post by Syd »

Heritage Smeritage ( :D ) The GTS is just a better scoot. Get the GTS.
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wheelbender6
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Post by wheelbender6 »

Seems that the Blur 220i is a little closer in performance to the Vespa 250 than the Buddy 170i.
-Alas, the Blur does not provide the classic styling of the Buddy and the Vespa.
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Post by DeeDee »

The Vespa is a water cooled, fuel injected 4 valve motor. Blur 220i is 16 hp, Vespa is 21 hp. Not in the same ballpark. Genuine puts out a great scooter for the money, but can't come close to the Vespa.
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Post by Dooglas »

I own a 300 GTS. It is my second GTS. I own two Buddys and have ridden a Hooligan a couple of times though I don't own one. IMO there is no comparison between the performance of the Hooligan and the GTS. In its class, the Hooligan is a decent ride and I am not, in any sense, running it down. The GTS, however, is simply a step up in performance and capabilities. It is faster, accelerates harder, tops out at a much higher speed, and will cruise all day. And that is not to mention that the scooter is truly beautiful. It is a classic design with lovely paint and bodywork. It is expensive, but you get what you pay for.
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Post by wheelbender6 »

Seems like when Taiwan builds a scoot with 4 valves and water cooling, they just dont sell like the conventional 2 valve airhead scoots. Trying to be too similar to a Vespa doesn't seem to work too well when you look at sales numbers.
-Typical scooter buyers either want to fork up the lira for a real Vespa, or settle for something inexpensive and reliable.
-Kymco tries to offer some scoots midway between those two price points.
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Post by DeeDee »

I did a full service on a Kymco Grand Vista with 32,000 miles this summer. Scooter never had a valve adjustment. It's a 250 water cooled with carburetor. If I didn't know the odometer reading, I would have guessed 6,000 miles on the bike. Valves (two of them) were spot on.No signs of the slightest wear on variator and clutch pulleys. Scooter hauled ass. Even though I was impressed with the quality and performance of the bike, I wouldn't own one if you gave it to me. Funky seat set up for a 5'4" person. Modern crotch rocket like stance. Almost as if it was stuck between being a Ninja and a scooter. A large frame Vespa can cruise on the highway, and still fits through a 36" garage side door. It all comes down to what you prefer, and what you can afford. I would never buy a new Vespa. Let someone else take depreciation. A 16 year old GT200 looks damn near like a brand new GTS300 at a fraction of the cost. In my mind, a well cared for GTS250 with reasonable miles is the best buy out there. Stick the GTS250 and new GTS300 side by side, you will be hard pressed to find a $5,000 difference in performance.
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Post by wheelbender6 »

DeeDee wrote:I would never buy a new Vespa. Let someone else take depreciation. A 16 year old GT200 looks damn near like a brand new GTS300 at a fraction of the cost.
Agreed. A well maintained, used Vespa can be a great value in the long run.
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Post by Dooglas »

wheelbender6 wrote:
DeeDee wrote:I would never buy a new Vespa. Let someone else take depreciation. A 16 year old GT200 looks damn near like a brand new GTS300 at a fraction of the cost.
Agreed. A well maintained, used Vespa can be a great value in the long run.
I agree that a well maintained GT200 Vespa is a good value and will give good service. I also agree that a GT looks very much like a more recent GTS. I don't, however, agree that a 16 year old carbureted GT is the same scooter as a recent fuel injected GTS with ABS, or that it will perform the same. My personal advice would be to look for a 5 year old GTS that is well maintained and in good condition. It will cost a $1000 to $1500 more than the GT, but it will be worth the difference.
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Post by personality »

I'd say go for a GTS 250 or 300 mostly for the fuel injection. GT200's may be tempting but they are pretty old at this point
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Post by Point37 »

there is no replacement for displacement...from what i've read the buddy 125, 150 and 170i and the vespa 150 are similar in performance numbers...the vespa 250 is going to be much faster and more expensive...this is an apples to oranges comparison...personally i would love a vespa 300 but at the price and the actual size of it, i'd probably just jump to a motorcycle and get a ktm duke 390
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Post by Stanza »

As others have chimed in already, for proper high speed cruising, the Hooligan is not the smart move. It's a great around town bike, and is capable of high speed, but keep in mind that 55-60 is right at the limit of it's engine. Metal body tub on the Vespa is all well and good until you have a crash, and need to shell out major money to put it back to rights, vs replacing panels on the Hooligan and other tube skeleton bikes.

If you do go the used Vespa route, make sure the seller can provide you a complete service history. Many owners get caught in the trap of thinking their bike is bulletproof because "it's a Vespa!", and they only ever do a yearly basic service. Then you take the bike, and find out the front shock is collapsing under braking, the belt is the original from 14 years ago (likewise tires), the bushings are a mess, etc etc. A well maintained Vespa is a great bike. A "rest on their laurels vespa's never break down lol" unit will give you an ulcer.
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Post by BuddyRaton »

Point37 wrote:there is no replacement for displacement..
Except for two stroke and compression! :mrgreen:
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Post by tenders »

Stanza wrote:If you do go the used Vespa route, make sure the seller can provide you a complete service history.
You're rarely going to get this. Alternatively: buy a Vespa at a price that bakes in the expectation that you'll have to do a lot of maintenance on it immediately. Fluids, belt, tires, brake pads - practically a given anyway.

This isn't so bad, because that way you know exactly what and when it was done. And while you've got it apart you can do your own farkleization.
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Post by Syd »

tenders wrote:
Stanza wrote:If you do go the used Vespa route, make sure the seller can provide you a complete service history.
You're rarely going to get this. Alternatively: buy a Vespa at a price that bakes in the expectation that you'll have to do a lot of maintenance on it immediately. Fluids, belt, tires, brake pads - practically a given anyway.

This isn't so bad, because that way you know exactly what and when it was done. And while you've got it apart you can do your own farkleization.
That is exactly what I did. Bought a GTS250 and rode to the shop for Belt/rollers, tires and a checkup. Best scoot I've ever owned.
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Post by Wasatch Scootah »

Thanks for all the unbiased replies. I am leaning towards a bigger scooter than the 170 now.

There are two GTS 250’s for sale locally. One for $4,600 and $3,600. Both around 3-4K miles.
Also a Blur at $1,400. Maybe that’s the better buy at what, 90% of performance??

I will definitely factor in maintenance costs right up front. I’ve been burned before with sellers claiming all was up to date.
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Post by DeeDee »

IS the blur a 220i? Not a bad bike. Vespa prices have gone crazy in the last year or so. Could find $2000 GTS250s all over the place a year ago. It's not even winter yet. Get your searches set up, and be prepared to act fast. One will come along. I bought a scooter from Texas last year. It cost me $125 on uship to get it from Texas to Colorado. Expand your search area. If the price is right, I love the big modern Vespas.
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Post by Wasatch Scootah »

Yes, it’s a 220i. Seems like it’s in good shape. I haven’t ridden it yet though.

I’m not confident in shopping out of state. Some of the used scooters I’ve checked out in person don’t match up to the ad pictures at all.

I am hoping winter season will be a good time to pick one up.
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Post by Point37 »

post up the ads of what you're looking at...someone may comment on something you didn't see in the photos

i say go vespa if you can...personally i would pass on the blur but that's just me...it just wasn't offered for very long

maybe check here too...
http://modernvespa.com/forum/forum3
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Post by Syd »

The seating position of the Blur is very different from the Vespa; more bent over, sport bike like. Depending on how long each GTS has sat, I'd take the one with the most miles, if it's running.
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Post by Stanza »

Blur of any flavor has been out of production for 6 years now, make sure you will be able to get the parts you need in case repairs come up later on.
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Post by Dooglas »

The Blur 220i still has an air cooled engine. The liquid cooling in the GT/GTS Vespas is the secret to their extended cruising capability and long engine life.
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Post by Wasatch Scootah »

Ok, so I guess I’m going to pass on that Blur! Thought more people would suggest a Genuine. I’ll keep an eye out for a GTS. Thanks.
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Post by Dooglas »

As I said, I honestly think the step up is to liquid cooling. That leaves out Genuine, but there are other choices out there. The Yamaha S-Max and X-Max being other examples of well built liquid cooled and fuel injected scooters. Not so pretty as a Vespa GTS, but.......
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Post by tenders »

Wasatch Scootah wrote:Ok, so I guess I’m going to pass on that Blur! Thought more people would suggest a Genuine. I’ll keep an eye out for a GTS. Thanks.
"I owned 2 Hooligans, a '15 and a '16. The fuel-injected 170i engine was bullet-proof and cruised all day long at 55 mph GPS verified. Highly recommended."

Not sure what else you were looking for! Same engine as the Buddy 170i.

Genuine's offerings above that size are thin, no two ways around that. Presumably you're not into the new G400C motorcycle:
http://www.genuinescooters.com/g400c.html

(which I don't think is selling very well)
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Post by voodooskin »

I have a buddy 125 (would love to try a 170) and a GTS 250 - and a GTS 300.

So I can't directly compare your scoots of interest but can say the 250 is so close to the 300 as to be equivalent for me, and the display is better on the 250 (more info).

The buddy was bought from someone who kept it as a beater scoot, I did the usual basic maintenance and it is super fun and reliable. I can't take it on the 55-65mph roads I ride on the bigger vespas though. If as I think is true the 170 has the same wheelbase as the 125 I'd get the wasp for better ride at speed.

As other mentioned there's a technology gap between the older GT200 model vespas and the 250's on. Some love the older carburetor tech etc. but I'm a fan of fuel injection as are most.

Seems like you could buy used either way and not take too big a hit if you decided to sell / try the other option, if you shop well.

Good luck!
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Post by Point37 »

Dooglas wrote:As I said, I honestly think the step up is to liquid cooling. That leaves out Genuine, but there are other choices out there. The Yamaha S-Max and X-Max being other examples of well built liquid cooled and fuel injected scooters. Not so pretty as a Vespa GTS, but.......
i'd toss the honda pcx 150 in there too...much faster than a hooligan/buddy 170i but def not pretty
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