Wobbly at faster speeds

Sharon · Post by **Sharon** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 2:10 am

Is it just me or what? I feel my Buddy is a bit wobbly at speeds over 30. Is that because it is so light/ I'm too light/or what? As a result, I'm a a little insecure at some curves so slow down alot when approaching them.

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 2:14 am

It's smart to slow down and brake when curving and turning. I'm only 100 pounds flat, and I dont have any wobble problems, the faster you go, the more stable. Are you letting off throttle or keeping it constant when riding?

Just letting off the throttle isnt good to do when turning/curving, braking to a slow speed and using minimal throttle to go through the turn is best.

KRUSTYburger · Post by **KRUSTYburger** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 3:05 am

How's you tire pressure? When I first got my Bud125, the pressure was low which made it wobbly at higher speeds. Go by the pressure printed on the tire, not the manual.

Post by **jmazza** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 3:08 am

Sharon-

It's not totally uncommon for the Buddy to feel wobbly at higher speeds... for a few reasons.

You could be feeling the wind more. Also just the fact that you're on such little tires means that higher speeds can be a bit wobbly (tire pressure like Krusty said can definitely contribute to that as well). But that's usually something that I've read about here until approaching 60 or so.

For me, I used to feel that the Buddy was wobbly at higher speeds but I don't anymore. It was me. I was getting nervous and gripping the handlebars harder which is always going to make the scooter less stable. Now that I go higher speeds more often and I'm used to it, I feel just as stable at an indicated 65-70 as I do at 30. I'm much more relaxed and that translates to a smooth ride.

You mention being insecure during the curves, so maybe you're experiencing a bit of this?

EP_scoot · Post by **EP_scoot** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 12:53 pm

Sharon,
remember to look all the way past the turn to where you want to go. It will create a more fluid motion through the turn and less wobbliness. And as others have said, do relax. The scoot can sense the rigidness in your body and every twicth will translate into the scooter reacting to it.

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 1:12 pm

Make sure all tires are filled to 30psi!

Sharon · Post by **Sharon** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 5:10 pm

Thanks for your suggestions/comments. Already checked tires pressure & that OK. I think it is probably me. I have over 600 miles on my scoot but continue with the curve issues. I feel resistance is greater on handlebar when cornering at faster speeds. Yes, I slow down & look through the curve. I'm finding this when I'm traveling @ 30 MPH and have to negotiate an approaching curve...I do the slow & look through but, as I said, I feel more handlebar resistance.

EP_scoot · Post by **EP_scoot** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 5:51 pm

Sharon,
if you know of someone else locally with a Buddy, you could have tehm take yours for a quick spin to see if they experience the same issues ?

itcardoc · Post by **itcardoc** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 6:26 pm

Sharon, I went from a Stella with 10" to a Blur with 13" wheels. I went from hanging on for dear life in windy conditions at 55-60mph to actually being comfortable at 55-60mph. Also much more stable even at moderate speeds. You may have to live with the 10" wheels giving you a wobbly feel. I lived with my Stella for 11,000 miles and STILL loved it! -Kevin

Sharon · Post by **Sharon** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:17 pm

Why do I have that "resistance" feeling on the handlebars when trying to lean and take a curve when I've been traveling (prior to) @ 20-30 mph? If I slow down anymore, I'll be only going 10-15 mph at the curve & I'll have a car trying to push me.

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:18 pm

Taking a curve at a high speed isnt the smartest idea, a car wont hit you or push you if you slow down, theres nothing wrong with slowing down and then accelerating once you can straighten up again.

Sharon · Post by **Sharon** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:34 pm

I know not to take curves at high speeds and I do slow down but, is slowing down from 30 to say 15 too slow for those behind you? Plus, what is that resistance feeling I get?

vitaminC · Post by **vitaminC** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:37 pm

Couple of questions:
1. What type of curve are we talking about? ) or L or U or ?
2. What do you mean by "resistance" when turning? Is this only when turning at speed, or does it feel stiff at slow speeds too?

Might want to have the steering head checked to make sure it's not too tight.

Have you had any training? I presume you are familiar with the concept of countersteering? Stuff like this can be very hard to diagnose over the interwebs.

Sharon · Post by **Sharon** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:42 pm

The curve shape is more like a C. After that curve I come to an S abit ahead. The resistance only occurs from faster speeds. I feel if I try leaning on the handlebar, it doesn't want to want to lean. Difficult to explain.

EP_scoot · Post by **EP_scoot** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:45 pm

Sharon, to what VitaminC said I would add:
- just sitting on the scooter, not moving, can you turn the handle bars freely left to right and back? Or do you feel the same resistance you feel at a turn?
- countersteering is what you need to do to lean into a turn. You should not feel "resistance" on the bars as you are not really moving them more than a tiny fraction of a inch.

Not knowing what you mean by resistance, keep in mind the scooterss inertia will want it to keep going straight, that is where countersteering comes in. And your body should lean along with the bike so the center of gravity moves towards the inside of the turn.

More info would be helpfull.

Sharon · Post by **Sharon** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:47 pm

I have no problrm sooting around "The Hood" it's when I/m out on a 30-35 mph road that I have this problem

vitaminC · Post by **vitaminC** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 9:06 pm

Sharon wrote:The curve shape is more like a C. After that curve I come to an S abit ahead. The resistance only occurs from faster speeds. I feel if I try leaning on the handlebar, it doesn't want to want to lean. Difficult to explain.

This sounds like it is the normal inclination of the scooter to want to continue in the direction its going. The wheels, although small, still exert the same gyroscopic effect of larger wheels, meaning that they want to stay upright. At higher speeds, this effect becomes stronger, requiring more effort to initiate the turn and get leaned over. Once you're in the turn, then you should no longer feel that resistance unless you are making lots of corrections that are constantly upsetting the balance of the scoot.

Concentrate on being smooth, making minimal inputs, and just practice as much as possible.

vitaminC · Post by **vitaminC** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 9:07 pm

PS- Do you have the same feeling while riding the Vespa?

rablack · Post by **rablack** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 10:17 pm

Sharon wrote:The curve shape is more like a C. After that curve I come to an S abit ahead. The resistance only occurs from faster speeds. I feel if I try leaning on the handlebar, it doesn't want to want to lean. Difficult to explain.

Get a copy of Proficient Motorcycling by David L. Hough or take some training. There's loads of great stuff in the book. The countersteering people keep talking about never made sense to me until I read the book and worked on the exercises (I should go take the MSF course). I now realize that I never really understood cornering until I had worked through the book. Your scooter wants to keep going straight. To turn it at speed you have to lean, the higher the speed or sharper the turn the more lean. Going through a right-hand curve if you want to get the scoot to turn more to the right while leaned over, you actually nudge the bars slightly to the left. Yikes! won't that make me go left? No - it makes the bike lean over more into the right hand turn. The input to the grips should be very subtle. It's counterintuitive but it works. If you are trying to lean more in a right hand turn by steering right, what you are actually doing is making the scoot stand up straighter (i.e. lessening the lean angle) so it wants to go straight. This might be the resistance to turning you are experiencing.

DarbyWalters · Post by **DarbyWalters** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 10:24 pm

Try this in a parking lot. You are probably pulling the handlebars (which ever end you need to pull to turn that direction) to negotiate a turn. Try pushing the opposite side of the handlebar instead of pulling the turning side...and let yourself and the bike relax thru the corners.

Sharon · Post by **Sharon** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:32 am

rablack & DarbyWaters: I think the two of you have given me my answer. I always thought you were to push the grip in the same direction you wanted to lean. Thanks. Am I going to feel like I will fall over?

EP_scoot · Post by **EP_scoot** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 1:12 am

Sharon,
just remember, PUSH LEFT = TURN LEFT, PUSH RIGHT = TURN RIGHT

When you push on the grip of the handle bar do it gently until you get the feel of it. Start at 10-15 mph on a parking lot and push on the handle bar in the direction you want to go. Once you get the feel for it, the same applies at any speed.

Just remember to push very gently until you get the feel for it.

The only time you actually turn the handle bars in the direction you want to go is at very low speeds, say under 5 mph or so.

You can do some reading on countersteering by Google-ing countersteer. You will come up with plenty of results.

Take the MSF course.
Pick up a copy of Proficient Motorcycling (your library might carry it).

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 1:43 am

Are you pushing and leaning to turn? Or are you using the handle bars, there is MAJOR resistance if you try turning the handle bars at higher speeds.

I'm starting to think you might be doing this, that is why you have so much "resistance" when curving and turning.

vitaminC · Post by **vitaminC** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 2:03 am

Sharon wrote: Am I going to feel like I will fall over?

No, you're going to feel like you can get through the turn without falling over

Have you ridden a bicycle? One also uses countersteering there.

The trick is that countersteering does not work at very slow speeds (like walking speed). This is why MSF and practice are such good things... and David Hough of course.

DarbyWalters · Post by **DarbyWalters** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 2:03 am

I said /typed it backwards...lol

vitaminC · Post by **vitaminC** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 4:13 pm

Oh, and make sure you don't have a "death grip" on the handlebars. Keep a loose grip and that will help...

rablack · Post by **rablack** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 4:40 pm

Sharon wrote:rablack & DarbyWaters: I think the two of you have given me my answer. I always thought you were to push the grip in the same direction you wanted to lean. Thanks. Am I going to feel like I will fall over?

Very subtle inputs on the grips! Experiment with it and you will immediately get the feedback. Just a slight nudge and you will feel the scoot lean over more. The first time you do it you will be surprised how little it takes.

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 4:41 pm

The faster you go and lean, the more stable it is, it's harder to lean at slow speeds, as long as that throttle is giving power to the rear wheel, and you have speed, you cannot fall over.

Quo Vadimus · Post by **Quo Vadimus** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 6:51 pm

I'm 150 miles green on my buddy.

Although I've got thousands of miles on my bicycle, I *still* didn't understand what countersteering really felt like until I read proficient motorcycling, and went out and weaved around on the streets a bit (may I suggest a parking lot instead of the actual streets - you'll be too busy countersteering that you won't realize a car has snuck up behind you!).

I still do some weaving on my way out of the parking lot every day to remind myself what it feels like. Just a little back and forth, push, push, push. I'm sure my neighbors think I'm the drunkest scooterist in the world, but a little daily reminder sure does wonders to remove the old cager instincts. And if they ever ask, I'll tell 'em I'm warming up the tires!

Sharon · Post by **Sharon** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 1:56 am

Thanks for all of your input. I have it now! There is just still this one BIG curve that gives me grief. Since I have that countersteer down better, I am going to practice with the *!*! curve over the weekend.

Corsair · Post by **Corsair** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 3:27 am

I pretty much ride as fast as the Buddy lets me about 90% of the time (ok maybe 98%) and I think it handles perfectly

BUT watch out for grooves in the road