Mythbusting: Is a Buddy 125 quicker than the Blur 150?

[NathanielSalzman]

So here's the myth: The Buddy 125 is quicker than the Blur 150. Not in terms of top end, but in terms of off-the-line acceleration.

Having both scoots in my garage, my seat-of-the-pants accelerometer made me pretty sure that the Blur had the edge, but people here on the forum were saying otherwise. So as I threatened last week, the wife and I took her '07 Buddy 125 and my '06 Blur out to do some time trials this afternoon. We found a huge parking lot and set up basically a 100-yard dash for the scoots. We had just enough space to get each scooter up to right around 40 mph before we had to brake. We each took turns on the respective scooters in a one-rider drag race from a standing start. We started from the same point each time while the other held the stopwatch standing at an orange cone about 100-yards away.

If you've ever ridden a Buddy and a Blur back to back, it's quite an experience. The Buddy is a fantastic scooter and certainly beats its big brother on looks and storage. But the Blur is just that little extra step above in handling, ride quality, and definitely braking. But did it have the guts to outrun the Buddy? With only 25cc's difference between them and a hefty weight difference, the numbers are very interesting.

HP/weight of the Blur 150: 10.33 hp / 291 lbs = power-to-weight of .035 hp/lb

HP/weight of the Buddy 125: 9.52 hp / 223 lbs = power-to-weight of .043 hp/lb

Which means that the bigger engine in the Blur is not producing enough power to overcome its weight disadvantage when compared with the lighter Buddy 125. The Buddy feels that much lighter too when I ride it. It certainly feels quick and featherweight, where the Blur feels very chunky and solid on its 13" wheels and sport bike suspension. The general consensus (and Genuine/PGO's numbers) say that the Blur has 5-10 mph more on the top end. I'm not really out to prove that here. What it does suggest, however, is a possible difference in gearing. That difference in ratios could make or break the power/weight difference between the two scooters and possibly make the heavier Blur quicker in spite of its greater weight. If the Buddy is geared for economy and the Blur for performance, then the Blur could indeed be faster off-the-line despite the power-to-weight disadvantage.

So enough jaw, we all know this stuff. Here are the numbers. Both scooters are unmodified.

My wife's runs show a little bit of a time spread. She was letting off the throttle just a split second before she reached the cone on some of her runs. Having done the same runs myself, I don't blame her. It's kind of an intimidating thing with the far end of the parking lot advancing toward you at an ever quickening rate. Even still, she did a great set of runs. Her times were:

Buddy:
9.4 sec <----- best time
9.9 sec
9.9 sec
10.4 sec
9.6 sec
----------------------
Avg time: 9.84 sec

Blur:
10.5
10.3
9.8
9.6 <----- best time
9.8
----------------------
Avg time: 10.0 sec

Now all you Buddy folk don't get too excited just yet. She'd basically never ridden the Blur before. And her fastest time on the Blur still landed within the low half of her time spread on the Buddy. But hey, I don't need to make excuses. My numbers were:

Buddy:
11.1 sec
10.9 sec <----- best time
10.9 sec <----- best time
11.2 sec
11.0 sec
------------------
Avg time: 11.02 sec

Blur:
10.3 sec
10.3 sec
10.4 sec
10.2 sec <----- best time
10.5 sec
------------------
Avg time: 10.34 seconds!!!!

My slowest time on the Blur was half a second faster than my fastest time on the Buddy. I rode both scoots as hard as I could and made sure not to release the throttle or brake until after I'd passed the cone, which was scary fun! It's a nice tight set of times so I've got to give props to the Blur for shaving more than half a second off such a short drag race. But I've also got to hand it to the Buddy for being way faster than it really ought to be.

So the verdict? The two of them are pretty much dead even. Seriously, even if it did edge out, what's half a second in the real world? The Blur has a little more off-the-line grunt than the Buddy, but the Buddy is lighter and makes up for most of it down the stretch. So if the myth is that the Buddy 125 is significantly quicker than the Blur, I'd call that myth "busted." But the Blur isn't truly quicker either. It's a sibling rivalry that surely won't end here, but I think this is a pretty strong case against this notion that the Blur is slow. It's not. Believe me.

P.S. And yes, this probably does mean that the Buddy 150 is a hair quicker than the Blur. Duh. It's got a major power-to-weight advantage. If I had one, I'd test it. But the Blur is still amazing, just for the brakes and the handling alone. All I wanted to dispel here was this notion that the Buddy 125 is running speedy circles around the Blur like people are claiming. Nope. Especially once the road takes to curvin' But would that keep a Pamplona out of my garage? I think not.

[DarbyWalters]

The differences in yours vs hers "times" might have a lot to do with the rider weight. The 150 can compensate more, with low end grunt", for your weight than the 125. Either way they still seem pretty close overall. Are those basically the 0-40mpg times. I need to test my Lambretta at 250# net weight and 10.5hp.

.042hp/lb

[jrsjr]

There's an African tribe that has a "trickster" myth that works like this: The trickster comes to a village with the left side of his face painted yellow and the right side of his face painted red. As he walks through the village, the folks from one side of the street get in a fight with the folks from the other side of the street over the trickster. "He's yellow!" "No, he's red!"

Same way with your data. Same numbers, but I see it differently. (No offense, I'm just being honest) In the world of drag racing, they never look at averages of times, they only look at the fastest time. If you go back and look at the data that way, something really interesting happens. Your wife is faster on the Buddy. You are faster on the Blur. NOTE: The fastest run of all (per my rule about drag racing) is your wife on the Buddy! If I had to guess, I'd guess that your wife is lighter, and hence is faster on the slightly less torquey Buddy. Again, I'm guessing, but I bet you are heavier and are faster on the slightly more torquey Blur. That, or you are more accustomed to the Blur and know how to launch it slightly better and your wife is more used to the Buddy and is able to launch it faster.

Either way, an extremely interesting test which shows just how closely the two very different scooters are matched. Thank you very much for posting that!

[Corsair]

definitely thanks for the post.

[jmazza]

Yeah I was thinking the same things about the average times- especially since you kept some times in there where you said your wife let off the throttle early.

And also, the "comfort" factor came to mind too since you were each faster on your own scoot.

But, like jrsjr said, it's interesting to see how fairly equally they are matched! I really want to ride a Blur. I think they are pretty cool and look very comfortable.

[NathanielSalzman]

If I had to guess, I'd guess that your wife is lighter, and hence is faster on the slightly less torquey Buddy. Again, I'm guessing, but I bet you are heavier and are faster on the slightly more torquey Blur. That, or you are more accustomed to the Blur and know how to launch it slightly better and your wife is more used to the Buddy and is able to launch it faster.

Oh there is DEFINITELY a weight difference. My wife weighs X and I weigh 2X. But that's why we both rode both scooters and did multiple runs. But as she got more used to the Blur, her times got faster. Were she as familiar with it as I am, I think there would have been some faster times for her on the Blur than the Buddy.

In the world of drag racing, they never look at averages of times, they only look at the fastest time.

Sure, but this was more of a scientific exploration, not a drag race. It's a drag race format, but we were trying to compare just the machines and take the weight of the riders mostly out of the equation. If we'd had all day to just do run after run, I really do think her times on the Blur would have started to creep below the Buddy like mine did. We both observed that there's a lull just at the launch on the Buddy that the Blur just doesn't have and I chock that up to gearing mostly. Although as I think about it, the more planted rear suspension of the Blur would waste less of that initial acceleration force into the shock too.

I hoped the Blur would trounce the Buddy (I'm partial, I'll admit it), but it's cool to see that they're pretty much an even match in this category. I want everybody to be able to have fun! What I really want to put an end to most of all is people coming on here, asking about the Blur, and getting a bunch of bad information that the Buddy is way faster "and that's why the the Blur didn't sell..." and on and on. There's room enough for both folks. I don't think the 15 Blur owners out here are really threatening the Buddy population. Ha ha!

[Drumwoulf]

Well, regardless of the minute factors such as weight and throttle skills, one thing is clear here...
And that is that the myth of the Blur 150 as this great speed burner that's so much faster than
any other scoot around simply doesn't apply when you put it up against the Buddy 125!!

(And a Buddy 150 would probably eat it for lunch!!)

[rajron]

If the Buddy 125 is quick, the People 150 is quicker!
My wife always walks away from me at stop lights. If there is a slight incline, or a headwind, I wave at her to slow down otherwise she would disappear on me. She is lighter by about 35 lbs, but she carries extra things in her Givi trunk.
If there is no wind, on a level road, or better yet on the slightest decline, my top end is nearly 5mph faster.
I am curious how the Buddy 150 compares.

[NathanielSalzman]

Well, regardless of the minute factors such as weight and throttle skills, one thing is clear here...
And that is that the myth of the Blur 150 as this great speed burner that's so much faster than
any other scoot around simply doesn't apply when you put it up against the Buddy 125!!

(And a Buddy 150 would probably eat it for lunch!!)

But who was saying that? There isn't some sort of running lore that the Blur is faster than the BV500 or even that it's quicker than the Buddy. I don't think there are any Blur owners out there who would claim that they've got the fastest thing on two wheels. But what there has been is a lot of jaw from people saying that the Blur is slow and that the Buddy is way quicker off the line. It just turns out that it's not the case. I'm not a Buddy hater, quite the opposite. But if you really want to compare the two objectively, the Blur has a lot of advantages in terms of suspension, top speed, handling, stability, roll-on acceleration, and especially braking. I don't think there's really any argument about that. I think people were saying that " the Buddy out-accelerates the Blur" without actually riding both and it just got taken as common knowledge. But I think that's kind of out the window now.

As for the Buddy 150 "eating it for lunch", I'm doubtful of that. Sure it's probably a little bit quicker, but once the twisty bits come along the Blur is back to the same advantages it's had all along. Although I imagine they'll be evenly matched at top speed now too. And I think that's great. The Buddy being fast isn't threatening to me, but for some reason the idea of the Blur being just as fast bothers people. I don't get it.

I guess what I don't understand is why it's SO important to some people that the Buddy be faster. Why can't the Buddy just be the Buddy and the Blur be the Blur? Can't we all just get along? Ha ha! Personally I wouldn't have really cared if yesterday the Buddy turned out to be way faster than the Blur, at least I'd know.

[EP_scoot]

Good run Nathaniel. Too bad I was not able to meet you and throw yet another rider on the mix.

They are both great scoots and soooo different as the reasons why some one would choose a Blur over a Buddy.

Personally, I don't care if you smoke me on the straights . . . it is when we get to the twisties why I got the Blur

[NathanielSalzman]

Good run Nathaniel. Too bad I was not able to meet you and throw yet another rider on the mix.

They are both great scoots and soooo different as the reasons why some one would choose a Blur over a Buddy.

Personally, I don't care if you smoke me on the straights . . . it is when we get to the twisties why I got the Blur

Yeah I thought about you man - wish you could have been there. It was really fun. I'd love to do it again with three or four buddies, as many Blurs, a little bit bigger space, and some sort of trip timer to get really accurate results.

[EP_scoot]

Let's run it over by the guys from tomorrow's run. Maybe they have some suggestions for locations !

[illnoise]

Well, there are two questions: which is quicker, and which is faster.

There's been a lot of unscientific testing, Phil at POC and others have tried them back to back, but this is the most (though not entirely) scientific test I've seen. Nathaniel says the conventional wisdom was that the Buddy was faster off the line, but I've always thought the opposite to be true.

You could measure at varying distances and find bigger differences (Nathaniel points out the blur is faster at the beginning, then evens out, where the Buddy is more steady) but I think this is fair enough proof that they're pretty similar as far as acceleration and quickness.

I've definitely never heard anyone suggest either scooter could run circles around the other at top speed, the conventional wisdom there has always been that they have a very similar top speed, and I would bet cash that testing would confirm that.

But, in defense of the Blur and its higher price tag, and this has been said many times, it's more controllable at higher speeds with a great suspension, riding position, and brakes. It's not a highway bike, and it's not a racer, but it's just a very very well engineered scooter.

Try this on a Buddy (I wouldn't try it on my Blur!)
(the test footage, AFTER the commercial)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqI-0oy4o44

Thanks for doing the tests, Nathaniel, that's awesome that you took the time to do that, I'm totally posting this on 2strokebuzz. : )

Bryan

[DarbyWalters]

Definitely not any reason to argue over it...even throwing the Buddy 150 in the mix. The Buddy and Blur are so different that a true comparison just doesn't apply. Classic Styling vs Modern Styling...that is probably the reason people bought one or the other.

Honestly, it would take one consistent rider doing runs on both to get a true acceleration comparison. Less variables...better results. I did that when I tested the Agility 125 against the Lambretta UNO 150. The 150 walked away from the 125.

[jmazza]

The real question is which is faster with a case of beer either in the pet carrier or the trunk or back rack?

I mean, drag races are fun but let's get REAL WORLD!!!

[jrsjr]

There's room enough for both folks. I don't think the 15 Blur owners out here are really threatening the Buddy population. Ha ha!

And, again, I wasn't being critical, just looking at your data from a different angle. Thanks for posting the follow-up about the weight, etc. I totally share your enthusiasm for the Blur. If I had fabrication skills, I'd be out in the garage right now figuring out a way to shoehorn the motor from a SYM HD200 into a Blur.

[Drumwoulf]

Well, regardless of the minute factors such as weight and throttle skills, one thing is clear here...
And that is that the myth of the Blur 150 as this great speed burner that's so much faster than
any other scoot around simply doesn't apply when you put it up against the Buddy 125!!

(And a Buddy 150 would probably eat it for lunch!!)

But who was saying that? There isn't some sort of running lore that the Blur is faster than the BV500 or even that it's quicker than the Buddy. I don't think there are any Blur owners out there who would claim that they've got the fastest thing on two wheels. But what there has been is a lot of jaw from people saying that the Blur is slow and that the Buddy is way quicker off the line. It just turns out that it's not the case. I'm not a Buddy hater, quite the opposite. But if you really want to compare the two objectively, the Blur has a lot of advantages in terms of suspension, top speed, handling, stability, roll-on acceleration, and especially braking. I don't think there's really any argument about that. I think people were saying that " the Buddy out-accelerates the Blur" without actually riding both and it just got taken as common knowledge. But I think that's kind of out the window now.

As for the Buddy 150 "eating it for lunch", I'm doubtful of that. Sure it's probably a little bit quicker, but once the twisty bits come along the Blur is back to the same advantages it's had all along. Although I imagine they'll be evenly matched at top speed now too. And I think that's great. The Buddy being fast isn't threatening to me, but for some reason the idea of the Blur being just as fast bothers people. I don't get it.

I guess what I don't understand is why it's SO important to some people that the Buddy be faster. Why can't the Buddy just be the Buddy and the Blur be the Blur? Can't we all just get along? Ha ha! Personally I wouldn't have really cared if yesterday the Buddy turned out to be way faster than the Blur, at least I'd know.

I don't really give two s**ts one way or another either; I wuz just pulling the Blurry owners' legs! And t'was my scooter dealer who told me the Blur was the quickest thing out there. And of course neither he nor I are fools, we both understood he was talking about other 150s and 125s, not, as you so oddly suggest, a 500cc scooter comparison!!?

[NathanielSalzman]

Honestly, it would take one consistent rider doing runs on both to get a true acceleration comparison. Less variables...better results.

That's pretty much what we did though. If I'd wanted to be simple about this (and less journalistic) I could have just included my numbers. One rider, two scooters, ten runs. Everything consistent. But I think that showing her numbers is equally worthwhile as you can see her Blur times got faster and faster and that she had runs on the Blur that were faster than some of her runs on the Buddy. If anything, it's better to have both sets of data. Think of them as two separate tests.

[Drumwoulf]

Try this on a Buddy (I wouldn't try it on my Blur!)
(the test footage, AFTER the commercial)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqI-0oy4o44
Bryan

Sheeesh! First thing is, I don't wear full leathers when I'm riding my scoot..
And the second thing is, I feel absolutely no need to do any of that dangerous
show-off crap on ANY scooter, MC, moped, or bicycle! Not ever, really!

[NathanielSalzman]

I don't really give two s**ts one way or another either; I wuz just pulling the Blurry owners' legs! And t'was my scooter dealer who told me the Blur was the quickest thing out there. And of course neither he nor I are fools, we both understood he was talking about other 150s and 125s, not, as you so oddly suggest, a 500cc scooter comparison!!?

I mentioned the BV500 only 'cause one round of hyperbole deserves another

Well, regardless of the minute factors such as weight and throttle skills, one thing is clear here... And that is that the myth of the Blur 150 as this great speed burner that's so much faster than any other scoot around simply doesn't apply when you put it up against the Buddy 125!!

[illnoise]

Sheeesh! First thing is, I don't wear full leathers when I'm riding my scoot.. :roll:
And the second thing is, I feel absolutely no need to do any of that dangerous
show-off crap on ANY scooter, MC, moped, or bicycle! Not ever, really! :P

Me neither, definitely not, but i think that video's a good testament to how well they handle, which has myriad real-world implications outside showing off (panic stopping, more control at better speed, better control on irregular or wet surfaces, etc).

I'm not knocking the Buddy at all, it's a great bike and a great value for its price, but after years of riding wobbly vintage vespas with 10-year-old tires and 30-year old shocks and worthless brakes, you really appreciate how great the Blur is. Sure, maybe we 15 Blur owners are insecure because we got so excited about a bike that didn't sell well and was discontinued before we had our first service visit. but once you ride one, you realize why it was priced higher than the Buddy, even though it's not any faster.

Bb.

[jrsjr]

maybe we 15 Blur owners are insecure...

There are 15 now?

P.S. For those of you at home, this is all good-natured ribbing from one (former) Blur owner to another. The Blur is actually one of the most interesting modern scooters ever to reach the USA. Witness the fact that a year-and-a-half after I parted with mine, I'm still thinking about it.

[illnoise]

There are 15 now?

I think Scooterville sold 3 in the last week, and that girl bought one, and I saw a guy I didn't know on Grand Ave the other day… there's a rush! If 360's ever gets fixed, there may be THREE in Chicago alone!

Bryan

[NathanielSalzman]

I'm not knocking the Buddy at all, it's a great bike and a great value for its price, but after years of riding wobbly vintage vespas with 10-year-old tires and 30-year old shocks and worthless brakes, you really appreciate how great the Blur is

Indeed! I was riding a 1979 Vespa P200E before the Blur and what a difference 25 years makes! I'll always miss the style of that old scooter, but it just couldn't compete with the smile I have on my face zipping 'round on the Blur. Buddy too for that matter.

[vitaminC]

How were you timing these runs?

Presumably with a stop watch? Just for fun, try to stop that watch at some number, say 5sec, and see what kind of variance you get. Without calibrated testing, I'd says those numbers are a wash and that the performance is equal between the two.

Now, who gets further on a gallon of gas? That's the test I always propose to my motorcycle riding friends...

[NathanielSalzman]

How were you timing these runs?

Presumably with a stop watch? Just for fun, try to stop that watch at some number, say 5sec, and see what kind of variance you get. Without calibrated testing, I'd says those numbers are a wash and that the performance is equal between the two.

Now, who gets further on a gallon of gas? That's the test I always propose to my motorcycle riding friends...

We were timing and logging the numbers using the stopwatch on my iPhone (which I see Adam Savage doing all the time on Mythbusters - ha ha!). Since there's no mechanical button to fumble, it's pretty accurate. But again, those kinds of variances are why you do multiple runs and not just one.

As for the gallon of gas, her Buddy will win every time. I'm getting about 75 mpg and she's pushing 90 mpg. And I think that again has gear ratios as a factor - that and weight of both rider and machine. I'm hoping a windshield on the Blur will up my numbers a touch.

[vitaminC]

As for the gallon of gas, her Buddy will win every time. I'm getting about 75 mpg and she's pushing 90 mpg.

Yes, that's a fixed game

My average so far is ~94 MPG, totally stock.

[illnoise]

Presumably with a stop watch? Just for fun, try to stop that watch at some number, say 5sec, and see what kind of variance you get. Without calibrated testing, I'd says those numbers are a wash and that the performance is equal between the two.

He did conclude that they were "dead-even.". I think the testing was scientific enough to conclude that there's certainly not much difference, at least in the 100m dash.

Bb

[lobsterman]

I've said before that I liked the Blur, and thought about buying it but got the Buddy instead because they had similar top speed and the Buddy was quite a bit cheaper on my wallet.

I still kinda wish I'd gotten the Blur.

[DarbyWalters]

Buddy:
11.1 sec
10.9 sec <----- best time
10.9 sec <----- best time
11.2 sec
11.0 sec
------------------
Avg time: 11.02 sec

Blur:
10.3 sec
10.3 sec
10.4 sec
10.2 sec <----- best time
10.5 sec
------------------
Avg time: 10.34 seconds!!!!

Actually the difference is substantial for such a short distance and time. The biggest difference between the two fastest times is 7/10ths of a second...that is huge is drag racing. Probably close to 3 bike lenghts...

[NathanielSalzman]

Actually the difference is substantial for such a short distance and time. The biggest difference between the two fastest times is 7/10ths of a second...that is huge is drag racing. Probably close to 3 bike lenghts...

Cool! I didn't really think of it that way.

[DarbyWalters]

The other thing to look at is the hp/weight including a 200# rider

.021 for the Blur and .023 for the Buddy125

Adding the rider/gear weight gives truer power to weight ratio

The better Torque of the larger 150cc makes the difference most likely