For those considering their first scooter

[KCScooterDude]

This is for anyone who's considering buying their first scooter. I'm writing it because there are a lot of stories on t.v. and in newspapers about buying a scooter. At some point, to tell the other side of the story I suppose, some economist or financial advisor cautions against buying a scooter if you want to save money. They reason that you'll never recoup the capital cost of the vehicle.

This reasoning has a fatal flaw. It does not factor in the resale value of your former vehicle. It also assumes that gas prices will remain stable (although high) or even decrease. I'm not so sure about that, but then again I don't have a crystal ball.

Anyway, I've been a scooterist since January and I could not be happier. I'm saving money and having fun - not because I merely bought a scooter, but because I (and my wife) made a lifestyle change. This is very important.

In short, my wife and I basically made the decision to be a one-car family (well mostly, but you'll see what I mean later). My wife and I are both in sales, meaning we have to drive for work a few days a week, but we do have the advantage of working out of the home, although I have an office about a mile away that I go to occassionally. I say this because converting to a scooter as a second car would be a lot easier if one or both spouses had a 9-5 job and just used it for commuting.

She drive a Ford Explorer, by the way.

So here's how the math worked for us and how a perfect storm led us to this decision, which is saving us thousands of dollars.

My old car was a Lincoln Town Car, which got 12 MPG. I drove it for a year, and sold it for $800 less than I paid for it (because the air suspension failed and I wasn't going to pay a dime to fix that boat).

We started shopping around for a car and decided to buy a new Diesel Jetta. Ah, you say, No such thing exists. Well, it was supposed to, but VW keeps delaying the sale of this alleged 45 MPG vehicle. It will probably be fall before us common volk can get a hand on one and then only for MSRP, so with $5,500 down on a ($22,000?) vehicle for 60 months that's about $360 a month in payment. Even though diesel is more expensive than gas, you're still realizing a 25 percent savings on fuel costs.

Anyway, with the launch of the diesel Jetta being put off we began looking at small cars like the Aveo, Yaris, Versa, Fit, etc. While the gas mileage was good, it just felt like too much of a compromise. One of the other of us couldn't use it for taking out clients or feeling safe on I-70 between K.C. and St. Louis.

That's where the scooter came in. It basically does everything a Toyota Yaris does (seats two comfortably, carries groceries, gets one from point A to point B).

Two huge differneces though. The scooter gets 70MPG while the hatches get half that, and we'd still have to finace some of it. Putting $5,500 down and financing for 36 months means a payment of about $295.

Here's what we ultimately decided.

We bought a Genuine Blur (substitute Buddy here if you are so inclined) and paid about $2,900 cash. Meanwhile, I shopped around and found that 1980 BMW 320i I had always been dreaming about (substitute VW bug, MG, etc.) in daily driver condition for $2,600 cash. Less than the scoot!

I'm out $5,500 and have no car payment. My main source of transportation gets 70MPG. The BMW is used one or two days a week when it's raining or I need my wife's car to take out clients. We've got a fun, second car that will probably be driven 200 miles a month - max.

Now, I don't mind putting in a few dollars into the BMW. At some point soon the exhaust system will need replacement and I'm sure things will crop up - its' a BMW. But, there are plenty of old Hondas, Toyotas and other cars out there that you can buy for $2,600 that will not give you much trouble if your're only driving it 2,500 miles a year.

The best part: When the Explorer is paid for, we can afford to go out and buy a much nicer (and more fuel effecent) vehicle by pooling our resources.

Actually, the best part is riding the scooter.

[vnice]

Yeah, my family only has one care, and one of us (me) has to drive to work. My getting a scooter is essentially like getting a second car for us. Financially it makes more sense than a second car ever could.

[onemind]

In my house it was the choice of a scooter or a fourth ( ) car. No trucks left at home though

[ERik3tb]

This is for anyone who's considering buying their first scooter. I'm writing it because there are a lot of stories on t.v. and in newspapers about buying a scooter. At some point, to tell the other side of the story I suppose, some economist or financial advisor cautions against buying a scooter if you want to save money. They reason that you'll never recoup the capital cost of the vehicle.

Here is just such an article. I found it on 2stroke buzz.

http://www.autoextremist.com/

[Christy]

hubs and i have been a one car family for 2 years. he works from home and i work part time. there have been occasions where we needed an extra vehicle when one of us had the car. So we were faced with the decision of which 2nd vehicle to purchase.

SCOOTER!!! it was an easy choice.

we are DEFINITELY saving money.

[luckyleighton]

I have three cages and a scooter. I bought a 1996 Honda Accord for $4500 3 years ago and it has never given me any problems. It has about 175k miles on it now and going strong. If you are smart you can find something cheap and reliable. People have created an irrational fear about used cars because of the American bad eggs GM and Ford used to lay. My mom has a 2000 Taurus with that many miles that seems strong (for fairness).

I wish I could do everything with my scooter, but I can't grocery shop for 5 people in a scooter. Or go anywhere with anyone. My wife would never take it on the road either (fear).

[7eregrine]

I suppose, some economist or financial advisor cautions against buying a scooter if you want to save money. They reason that you'll never recoup the capital cost of the vehicle.

Not sure I get this comment. Isn't it EASIER to recoup the capital cost on a $3,000 scooter then it would be on a $12,000 Yaris? Yes, the Yaris has decent resale value, but have you looked at used Scooters lately? I think they have probably the best resale value of any vehicle on the road today. They sell in a day or two when posted on CraigsList.

Not a huge finance guy so I may not understand that correctly.

[Christy]

I suppose, some economist or financial advisor cautions against buying a scooter if you want to save money. They reason that you'll never recoup the capital cost of the vehicle.

Not sure I get this comment. Isn't it EASIER to recoup the capital cost on a $3,000 scooter then it would be on a $12,000 Yaris? Yes, the Yaris has decent resale value, but have you looked at used Scooters lately? I think they have probably the best resale value of any vehicle on the road today. They sell in a day or two when posted on CraigsList.

Not a huge finance guy so I may not understand that correctly.

Most financial analysts are looking at the general population who have bought a scooter recently in addition to all of their cars. They are still driving their cars a lot and riding the scoots occasionally...whenever it's convenient.

For the scooterist who bought theirs in place of getting another car then it does make perfect financial sense. For the scooterists who bought it regardless of a financial analysts definition, it also makes perfect sence - pleasure, enjoyment and sheer fun.

speaking of, what are we doing here now? I'm gonna get out and ride! (i have another grocery trip to make)

[KCScooterDude]

I suppose, some economist or financial advisor cautions against buying a scooter if you want to save money. They reason that you'll never recoup the capital cost of the vehicle.

Not sure I get this comment. Isn't it EASIER to recoup the capital cost on a $3,000 scooter then it would be on a $12,000 Yaris? Yes, the Yaris has decent resale value, but have you looked at used Scooters lately? I think they have probably the best resale value of any vehicle on the road today. They sell in a day or two when posted on CraigsList.

Not a huge finance guy so I may not understand that correctly.

Yes, you are correct. I should have been more clear. I was talking about the scooter.

Case in point, my first scoot was actually at Tank Touring 150. Yes, a Chinascoot!!! I learned to ride on the thing and figured out quickly that I wanted something with better quality, although to be fair I had no issues with the scoot. I'm not one to bag on Chinascoots because I figure people are smart enough to realize they're getting what they pay for.

Anyway, I bought it second-hand for $1,100 and ended up selling it for $100 less than I paid for it a few months later. Could have gotten more, but I wanted to get rid of it because I'd already laid out the cash on my Blur. BTW, in that few months I put 1,000 km on the thing (okay, 1,000 chinameters).

[ZQ8 Blazer]

FYI incase you didn't know VW made a turbo diesel in there previous body style, it got 45-48mpg. Why'd they quit making this?

I have another way to save money on a vehicle. I work on vehicles alot, even had one that got in magazines numerous times. So I am very picky when it comes to looks. I bought the Blazer in my sig wrecked w/ a clean title off ebay for $1,000. The owner hadturned it over on it's side, but didn't hurt the roof, rockers, or frame. Had it shipped to me and went to a few junk yards and got a fender, 2 doors, glass, and the rear 1/4 panel, also found a 3.42 rearend w/ limited slip for cheap so I got that as well. I had $330 tied up in good parts. I ripped all the damaged parts off and took it to my bodyman to have the rear 1/4 panel welded on. He charged me $700 to fix everything and paint that side. By the time I lowered it, customized it a little, and sold some of the original parts off it I had $3300 tied up in it and there is no possible you'd know it was ever wrecked! I've put 20k on it and the odometer reads 142k and she's still running like new. Best of all I could sell it now and make 2k

[KCScooterDude]

FYI incase you didn't know VW made a turbo diesel in there previous body style, it got 45-48mpg. Why'd they quit making this?

The old diesels couldn't meet emission standards in all 50 states. The new engines are entirely different technology designed by Bluetec. It uses a filter to scrub the emissions. Some new diesels use urea to accomplish this. Try to find a TDI for sale. You can't, and if you do see one, it's usually sold by the time you call.

Nice ride.

[7eregrine]

I don't get the Diesel craze. Yes, I k now it's more fuel efficient and cleaner burning and gets you slightly better gas mileage.... but it is nearly a dollar more per gallon!

[nissanman]

The older VW diesels had almost no pickup to them (stock at least). Maybe an issue for some, maybe not. Since there were other good cars on the market that get 30mpg vs the 40mpg from the VW... and diesel is 30% more expensive than 87 octane gas... it's a break even. And now you have a car that is harder to find a good mechanic to work on. At the end of the day it's just another choice for good mileage transportation. Just my .02

[KCScooterDude]

The older VW diesels had almost no pickup to them (stock at least). Maybe an issue for some, maybe not. Since there were other good cars on the market that get 30mpg vs the 40mpg from the VW... and diesel is 30% more expensive than 87 octane gas... it's a break even. And now you have a car that is harder to find a good mechanic to work on. At the end of the day it's just another choice for good mileage transportation. Just my .02

Actually, you are still way ahead with the diesel. When I did a comparison a few months ago (I admit, prices have still gone up), the diesel version of the Jetta cost 8 cents a mile in fuel while the gasoline version costs 12 cents per mile. Diesels also run forver. You can put twice the mileage on a diesel as you can a gas engine.

Anyway, the new diesels that have become popular in Europe and are now coming over here are nothing like the old ones. They have good acceleration and, most important, are as torquey as hell.

In ten years, half the cars sold in the u.s. will be deisel, a quarter will be electric and hydrogen vehicles will be coming on line. Nobody will remember what a hybrid was and gas engines will be quickly retired to the junk yard.

[7eregrine]

It's going to take longer then 10 years for the automakers to shift to diesel. It takes 4-5 years to get a brand new car to market and Ford/GM/Honda aren't even really working on it yet TMK and I follow the auto market pretty closely.

[luckyleighton]

I thought that diesel did not burn clean enough...and that is why it was limited in the marketplace for passenger cars.

But I may be wrong.

[KCScooterDude]

I thought that diesel did not burn clean enough...and that is why it was limited in the marketplace for passenger cars.

But I may be wrong.

The new diesels use a filter (VW) or a chemical called urea to filter out a portion of the harmful exhaust. You are right, diesel exhaust is still not as clean as gasoline exhaust, but beause of the increased fuel effeciency, your carbon footprint is lower with the new "clean (well, cleaner) diesel" than with gasoline. Europe actually has more stringent environmental regulations that the U.S., but diesels account for close to half of auto sales and are perfectly legal.

[Dooglas]

I already posted some of this diesel stuff but maybe folks are still interested judging from this string. Diesel around here is 15% higher than regular unleaded right now and gas is rising faster in price than diesel. My diesel VW gets about 35% better mileage than the comparable gasser. You do the math on that one. Modern turbo diesels have plenty of torgue and are genuinely fun to drive. Since the US finally cleaned up its diesel fuel recently, new generation diesels are at least as clean as gassers and are substantial better when it comes to reduced greenhouse gasses. They also burn biodiesel which burns even cleaner than dino diesel. As "KCscooterdude" says - there is a reason why all those Europeans are driving them (and why I drive one for that matter).

[KCScooterDude]

I already posted some of this diesel stuff but maybe folks are still interested judging from this string. Diesel around here is 15% higher than regular unleaded right now and gas is rising faster in price than diesel. My diesel VW gets about 35% better mileage than the comparable gasser. You do the math on that one. Modern turbo diesels have plenty of torgue and are genuinely fun to drive. Since the US finally cleaned up its diesel fuel recently, new generation diesels are at least as clean as gassers and are substantial better when it comes to reduced greenhouse gasses. They also burn biodiesel which burns even cleaner than dino diesel. As "KCscooterdude" says - there is a reason why all those Europeans are driving them (and why I drive one for that matter).

Amen.

Thank you, I figure scooter folk are pretty cutting edge and want to know this stuff.

[Piedmont]

But why don't we have diesel scooters?
I know the millitary just converted a bunch of bikes to diesel, so it's possible at least.

[KCScooterDude]

It's going to take longer then 10 years for the automakers to shift to diesel. It takes 4-5 years to get a brand new car to market and Ford/GM/Honda aren't even really working on it yet TMK and I follow the auto market pretty closely.

BMW and VW will have thier diesels here in '09. Honda has also announced diesels, for '10 or '11 and I believe Subaru is also developing or considering shipping over an existing engine. Merc is already importing them. Jeep flirted with them, but I don't think they have any in their current lineup.

GM and Ford sell lots of diesel automobiles, just not to Americans. Brits even get a Ford Focus convertible. The engines already exist. GM and Ford do sell lots of diesels in the U.S., but they are truck engines. Dodge, too, I imagine.

[KCScooterDude]

But why don't we have diesel scooters?
I know the millitary just converted a bunch of bikes to diesel, so it's possible at least.

How about a diesel version of the Honda Ruckus? We're talking Mad Max action there. I saw an article on those diesel motorcycles the Marines have built. Pretty cool.

I'd be happy with the rumored (another thread in Modern Buddy) rotary engine scooter that Genuine might be importing. Pretty wild story, though.

[7eregrine]

GM and Ford sell lots of diesel automobiles, just not to Americans. Brits even get a Ford Focus convertible. The engines already exist. GM and Ford do sell lots of diesels in the U.S., but they are truck engines. Dodge, too, I imagine.

Dunno if I'd say "lots".
I know Saab (i.e. GM) has been selling diesels in Europe for a long time until this recent model change. They are certainly coming, but I'd bet money a 50% penetration will not happen for at least twice as many years as you predicted. Especially, as has been so perfectly pointed out in this thread, when so many Americans still have that bad image of the old style diesel cars.