How's this for gear?

sotied · Post by **sotied** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 3:32 pm

Look at the woman riding the Vespa in this front page Boston.com story.

http://tinyurl.com/6n6g7z

The media is still tough to sell on the serious responsibility of riding. Especially when the top story has a woman in a tank top, sandals, no gloves, open helmet and short shorts on in the middle of commuter traffic.

Read the whole story for neat ideas like lane splitting and weaving in around traffic.

Have thought about sending comments to the reporter, but suspect it might not do much good. From her recount, it's obvious that she's infatuated with all the benefits of the scooting lifestyle without many of the realities.

***EDIT*** Here's the photo as taken from the home page of Boston.com. All I gave you was the link to the story.

Groovealufagus · Post by **Groovealufagus** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 3:52 pm

Well, this is America, after all... home of irresponsible reporting. Made me want to gag.

maribell · Post by **maribell** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 4:30 pm

To each his own.

At least the article captured the romantic part of scooter riding. Most of them are gas prices, gas prices, gas prices.

schlagle · Post by **schlagle** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 5:09 pm

We all have a level of risk we're willing to take. Fun for me used to be strapping myself to something (bike, skis,kayak) and throwing myself off of a mountain.

I will wear very little gear for short slow trips around town if the weather is warm. For me it's helmet 100% of the time and gloves 99% (don't get me started on hand road rash) and the rest of the gear probably 75% of the time, by number of trips. If I calculated this by mileage my gearing up numbers would be higher. I spend a lot of time on the highway.

Eddy Merckx · Post by **Eddy Merckx** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 5:35 pm

schlagle wrote:We all have a level of risk we're willing to take. Fun for me used to be strapping myself to something (bike, skis,kayak) and throwing myself off of a mountain.

I will wear very little gear for short slow trips around town if the weather is warm. For me it's helmet 100% of the time and gloves 99% (don't get me started on hand road rash) and the rest of the gear probably 75% of the time, by number of trips. If I calculated this by mileage my gearing up numbers would be higher. I spend a lot of time on the highway.

I 2nd your decisions on gear, it's the riders choice, and should not be such a big deal, after all most of the scooter riders on this planet wear little to no gear and are doing just fine. jmo of course

luckyleighton · Post by **luckyleighton** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 5:44 pm

It is a personal choice...Without road rash she looks good

.

Honestly, on a nice day its tempting to risk it and enjoy the weather. Helmet and Gloves all the time of course.

k1dude · Post by **k1dude** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 6:05 pm

I may be in the minority here, but I wish all pretty young women would ride like that!

You have to admit, she looks pretty cute and cool.

I on the other hand, look like a storm trooper when I ride. I can't figure out where to mount my light saber though.

Post by **ericalm** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 6:45 pm

k1dude wrote:I may be in the minority here, but I wish all pretty young women would ride like that! You have to admit, she looks pretty cute and cool.

Yeah, I wish... But I've seen too many photos of cute young women after crashes. They're much cuter will all their teeth, toes and skin.

I'm not going to get preachy about wearing gear here; that's definitely not the MB way. But I'd hate to think anyone would take on riskier behaviors for the sake of looking cute while riding. It IS possible to look cute in gear. (I don't, but I think my wife does.

) Scooter chicks in gear look a little extra badass, a little tougher. And I'm okay with that.

k1dude · Post by **k1dude** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 7:06 pm

I guess I didn't make it clear. I should have used a few strategically placed smiley faces. I don't condone riding like that. I was just making a 'cute' observation. I know in my dreams, all women wear bikini's on their scoots.

sotied · Post by **sotied** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 9:41 pm

maribell wrote:To each his own.

At least the article captured the romantic part of scooter riding. Most of them are gas prices, gas prices, gas prices.

Sidebar was all about gas mileage.

A reporter should probably not give one side of a story without at least referencing the risks of riding without gear or mentioning the MSF courses.

Groovealufagus · Post by **Groovealufagus** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 2:14 am

For me it's the combination of the lack of gear while condoning lane splitting which I find to be such bad form... and making it sound glamorous. Those two things together are asking for a not so glamorous ending.

rajron · Post by **rajron** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 2:32 am

I was thinking heels would look nice!

sotied · Post by **sotied** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 9:12 pm

Word from the local scooter boards in New England - from people who have contacted the reporter - say that she said it's a moped pure and simple because it's a 49.9cc and regardless of speed doesn't need a plate or to be operated as a motorcycle.

Here's her email and phone number if anyone cares to help educate her. I've already shared my two cents.

But another thread right now on ethics makes me think this article should have started that topic. Was it really ethical for her to portray scooting as only fun, as lane splitting as legal, and a 49cc scooter as a toy that 'regardless of speed' (her words) is still free to be driven as a bike.

Tania deLuzuriaga
The Boston Globe
617.929.2915
deluzuriaga@globe.com

MikieTaps · Post by **MikieTaps** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 9:22 pm

while i was in chicago this last weekend, i saw 5 or 6 scooters on the street... NO HELMETS... of the scooter I saw, 3 of them were girls, wearing almost exactly the same thing as above, or summer dresses... and no helmets, and this was all DOWNTOWN Chicago... like Magnificent Mile, west loop, and river morth... Peeps in Chicago got cajones... I am from Chicago, but maybe the Pac NW has put some sense into me... FF + Jacket + Gloves 99% of the time... If I am going to store 4 blocks away, no jacket if it is over 80 degrees.

Post by **illnoise** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 9:35 pm

MikieTaps wrote:while i was in chicago this last weekend, i saw 5 or 6 scooters on the street... NO HELMETS...

No helmet law here. Thanks, ABATE.

MikieTaps wrote:Peeps in Chicago got cajones

The peeps you saw haven't crashed yet, or ridden behind a gravel truck, or through bees. It's the flip flops that kill me. 80% of the people you see are wearing sandals. I wouldn't ride a bicycle in sandals. I don't like WALKING in sandals.

MikieTaps wrote:I am from Chicago, but maybe the Pac NW has put some sense into me... FF + Jacket + Gloves 99% of the time... If I am going to store 4 blocks away, no jacket if it is over 80 degrees.

I recognize their legal right to wear whatever they want, but I don't have to like it, ha. I just can't believe anyone would ride in anything less than some sort of helmet, gloves, and shoes.

People should make their own decisions, sure, but they should be informed decisions. I don't think most of these people have any idea how much risk they're accepting. I blame the lack of motorcycle education.

madtolive · Post by **madtolive** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 10:05 pm

regarding the cuteness of very cute and barely clothed girls on scooters, this is something i put in another thred:

at first i was very gung-ho about ATGATT. i still am, but for a while i was experiencing "cute-girls-on-scooters" envy. i'd see pretty girls in very cute outfits zipping along on their cute scooters, and next to their tank tops, capris, and flats i felt unglamorous in my heavy armored jacket, mad max boots and full face helmet. but i think i've gotten over it. besides, i like to think that once my jacket and helmet come off, i'm quite cute myself, in my own stinky, sweat-stained and helmet-haired way. ew.

i totally did not get a scooter to look cute anyway. hurrumph.

long story short...you probably are more attractive in an ugly jacket than with gravel stuck in your chest.

i know you guys are just playing, but i'd hope ya'll would rather we ladies were safe than "attractive" on a scooter for the onlooker's sake...

Post by **ericalm** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:42 pm

sotied wrote:But another thread right now on ethics makes me think this article should have started that topic. Was it really ethical for her to portray scooting as only fun, as lane splitting as legal, and a 49cc scooter as a toy that 'regardless of speed' (her words) is still free to be driven as a bike.

Even in journalism, there's a difference between unethical reporting and inaccurate or irresponsible reporting. Unfortunately, the rush to get these stories out has resulted in a lot of bad reporting—writers not doing their research.

Emailing the reporter is fine, but you're much better off sending corrections to an editor or, even better, an ombudsman. Let them know that not only does the story contain several factual inaccuracies, but that it appears to condone illegal and unsafe riding practices. The latter will carry much more weight. These complaints will mean much more coming from readers/riders who live in the paper's geographic demo.

luckyleighton · Post by **luckyleighton** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:59 pm

madtolive wrote:regarding the cuteness of very cute and barely clothed girls on scooters, this is something i put in another thred:.......i know you guys are just playing, but i'd hope ya'll would rather we ladies were safe than "attractive" on a scooter for the onlooker's sake...

My logical brain says I would prefer the ladies to be safe, but then I see some skin and forgot what it is we were talking about anyway.

sotied · Post by **sotied** » Tue Jun 24, 2008 2:48 am

ericalm wrote:
sotied wrote:But another thread right now on ethics makes me think this article should have started that topic. Was it really ethical for her to portray scooting as only fun, as lane splitting as legal, and a 49cc scooter as a toy that 'regardless of speed' (her words) is still free to be driven as a bike.
Even in journalism, there's a difference between unethical reporting and inaccurate or irresponsible reporting. Unfortunately, the rush to get these stories out has resulted in a lot of bad reporting—writers not doing their research.

Emailing the reporter is fine, but you're much better off sending corrections to an editor or, even better, an ombudsman. Let them know that not only does the story contain several factual inaccuracies, but that it appears to condone illegal and unsafe riding practices. The latter will carry much more weight. These complaints will mean much more coming from readers/riders who live in the paper's geographic demo.

All good points, except the last one. The comments will probably carry equal weight no matter from whom they come as Boston.com is trying to cement its place as a truly global source of news.

AND they must know that a google search for Vespa and commute will bring that story up.

I'd urge all members who are bothered by this to contact the paper's ombudsman.

ombudsman@globe.com

*I'm local and have a relationship with the paper and my opinion has already been received.

KCScooterDude · Post by **KCScooterDude** » Tue Jun 24, 2008 3:57 am

Okay, newspaper guy here - in interest of full disclosure.

I wouldn't be too hard on the reporter. Mostly beause this is a kind of reporter's notebook thing. It's firsthand experience. She was just honestly reporting what she did once she picked up the scooter and drove around town on thing. Sure, she broke the law (if lane-splitting is illegal in Mass.) and risked her own neck, but that's on her. I hope she writes an article when she lays it down.

Best response would be a letter to the editor thanking her for capturing the fun part of scootering, but reminding people to wear gear - especially if you are going to do something as stupid as lane-splitting.

FYI - That might be the actual reporter riding on the scoot, but at most newspapers the story and the photo are assigned individually. Reporter is told to write a story about scooters. Photog is told to get a picture of somebody riding one.

BTW, I don't agree that the Prius will do that good on gas consumption. Especially with traffic like Boston has. I'll save my rants about hybrids for another day. Only in America, that's all I'll say. Thanks California EPA!

sotied · Post by **sotied** » Tue Jun 24, 2008 4:21 am

KCScooterDude wrote:Okay, newspaper guy here - in interest of full disclosure.

I wouldn't be too hard on the reporter. Mostly beause this is a kind of reporter's notebook thing. It's firsthand experience. She was just honestly reporting what she did once she picked up the scooter and drove around town on thing. Sure, she broke the law (if lane-splitting is illegal in Mass.) and risked her own neck, but that's on her. I hope she writes an article when she lays it down.

Best response would be a letter to the editor thanking her for capturing the fun part of scootering, but reminding people to wear gear - especially if you are going to do something as stupid as lane-splitting.

FYI - That might be the actual reporter riding on the scoot, but at most newspapers the story and the photo are assigned individually. Reporter is told to write a story about scooters. Photog is told to get a picture of somebody riding one.

BTW, I don't agree that the Prius will do that good on gas consumption. Especially with traffic like Boston has. I'll save my rants about hybrids for another day. Only in America, that's all I'll say. Thanks California EPA!

If she's going to write in a blog-esque way, then it should be presented as such. This was on the front page of the City/Region section of the Sunday paper.

My main concern - and others have voiced similar thoughts - is that people will read this and think that scooting doesn't come with any responsibility or rules. And that it's safe to do as she presents it visually and in words.

In a city with nearly 30 colleges and universities that swell the population of Boston significantly each fall, I bet scooters will become a staple of transport here. If the paper of record treats these vehicles as toys then I envision a pandemic of road rash and fatalities at least peripherally attributable to this article's incomplete message.

'tis the actual reporter on the scoot. Photo caption in the print edition and rollover say so.

The paper has done two fluff pieces on scooting so far (mostly focused on gasoline prices) and has yet to get the distinctions and the laws correct.

Reporter confirmed her lack of research in a response to a New England Scooter board when she was asked about her vehicle and the rules about piloting it around town. She said that regardless of speed, if the scoot is under 50cc it is a moped.

She's wrong. You are not allowed to exceed 25MPH on a moped and the vehicle itself cannot be capable of 31MPH or higher.

Fact is, in MA the speed has a direct correlation to the way the vehicle is defined. Some scoots at 49cc can't even be sold as mopeds here because they already go faster than 30MPH from the factory.

Lane splitting is up for debate here, but if you read the laws literally, it says you must remain in your lane and not pass within a lane. That tells me lane splitting isn't legal.

No idea on hybrids, but I look forward to that thread.

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Jun 24, 2008 5:21 am

sotied wrote:Lane splitting is up for debate here, but if you read the laws literally, it says you must remain in your lane and not pass within a lane. That tells me lane splitting isn't legal.

There may be some pending legislation in other states, but as far as I know CA is the only state in which lane splitting is legal.

KCScooterDude · Post by **KCScooterDude** » Tue Jun 24, 2008 5:35 pm

In response to Sotied.

So write a letter to the editor and be positive. You might actually make your point.

I can already see what's going to happen here. It's about five months in the future, the editors are sitting in a budget meeting deciding what's going to go into tomorrow's edition(s) and somebody brings up something scooter related - perhaps a story about how scooters seem to be here to stay, not a fad. The following comment will be made:

"Yeah, we did a story on scooters a few months back. Man, those scooter people are a**holes. I wouldn't touch the subject."

Story gets killed.

Look, I'm the one who started the tread about the Smart Money article that bags on the Buddy. The whole premise of the article was flawed. I see your point, but it doesn't help to complain and not propose a solution of any type. Just write a letter - better yet get some flak from the MSF - to write one with the following points.

1) It's great to see an article about scooters and how popular they are becoming.

2) It's great to see the reporter was wearing a helmet (in Kansas this is an option, I don't know about Mass.), but more gear is recommended. This isn't summer on Block Island, afterall.

3) By the way, good scooterists obey traffic laws and learn how to protect themselves. Some of the activity in the article can be dangerous and doesn't reflect most scooterists' desire to share the road responsibly with other motorists.

4) Watch out for scooters and motorcycles because they are becoming more popular and nobody wants to be responsible for injuring or killing somebody. In return, scooterists and motorcyclists are generally friendly people who will usually stop and help somebody in need.

siobhan · Post by **siobhan** » Tue Jun 24, 2008 5:43 pm

KCScooterDude wrote:
2) It's great to see the reporter was wearing a helmet (in Kansas this is an option, I don't know about Mass.), but more gear is recommended. This isn't summer on Block Island, afterall.

I'm heading out to BI tomorrow (with my own scoot) so I hope to get some great pics. It'd be great to ride w/o gear out by the cliffs, but I only do that in Swan Point Cemetery.

Christy · Post by **Christy** » Tue Jun 24, 2008 5:51 pm

i'd not ride that way but she does look good.

if that picture could talk I would hear it saying, "man, this is fun. I'm comfortable, cool and looking great riding my awesome scooter." it would also be saying that the lack of gear, imo, is dangerous, but we're skirting the gear-talk-regulations...

KCScooterDude · Post by **KCScooterDude** » Tue Jun 24, 2008 6:23 pm

Christy wrote:i'd not ride that way but she does look good.

if that picture could talk I would hear it saying, "man, this is fun. I'm comfortable, cool and looking great riding my awesome scooter." it would also be saying that the lack of gear, imo, is dangerous, but we're skirting the gear-talk-regulations...

What that picture doesn't show is the SUV driver behind her smoking a cigarette, drinking coffee with one hand, talking on the cell phone with the other and steering with his/her knees while turning around and yelling at the kids in the back to shut up.

Live hard and die young, that's what I say!

mandyscoots · Post by **mandyscoots** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 10:55 am

At least her helmet isn't upside down.

Drumwoulf · Post by **Drumwoulf** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 1:49 pm

So tired of hearing people complain about how under-dressed OTHER riders are!!
(Y'know, it's beginning to sound to me like jealousy! "-Geez, I wish I could ride like THAT!")

How about we all pay attention to how WE dress when WE'RE out riding, and just leave the other frigging people alone, huh?

What a concept; live and let live, and just mind your own business...!

(AFAIC there's just too damn many control freaks in today's modern USA!!!)

schlagle · Post by **schlagle** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 5:01 pm

mandyscoots wrote:At least her helmet isn't upside down.

hehe

sotied · Post by **sotied** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 7:58 pm

Are you KIDDING me?

C'mon. Why why why why why?

I need to know.

Post by **jmazza** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 8:00 pm

sotied wrote:Are you KIDDING me?

C'mon. Why why why why why?

I need to know.

WHY RED IS RED

pretz_ruck · Post by **pretz_ruck** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 8:05 pm

Drumwoulf wrote:So tired of hearing people complain about how under-dressed OTHER riders are!!
(Y'know, it's beginning to sound to me like jealousy! "-Geez, I wish I could ride like THAT!")

How about we all pay attention to how WE dress when WE'RE out riding, and just leave the other frigging people alone, huh?

What a concept; live and let live, and just mind your own business...!

(AFAIC there's just too damn many control freaks in today's modern USA!!!)

AMEN!!!! If its not hurting you or breaking the law who cares, you do what you do and let other people do what they do

louie · Post by **louie** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 8:15 pm

Drumwoulf wrote:So tired of hearing people complain about how under-dressed OTHER riders are!!
(Y'know, it's beginning to sound to me like jealousy! "-Geez, I wish I could ride like THAT!")

How about we all pay attention to how WE dress when WE'RE out riding, and just leave the other frigging people alone, huh?

What a concept; live and let live, and just mind your own business...!

(AFAIC there's just too damn many control freaks in today's modern USA!!!)

i don't respond often or maybe ever to these kinds of topics unless it's to give out some hurt report type statistic,

but...since i work with a couple of 20 somethings that are not able to independently function because of some asshole drunk driver...sorry eric...i just gotta say...

some people don't like the idea of paying for lifelong care of those who didn't make an educated choice and didn't gear up before their unfortunate accident, uhm irresponsible crash.

KCScooterDude · Post by **KCScooterDude** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 8:57 pm

louie wrote:
Drumwoulf wrote:So tired of hearing people complain about how under-dressed OTHER riders are!!
(Y'know, it's beginning to sound to me like jealousy! "-Geez, I wish I could ride like THAT!")

How about we all pay attention to how WE dress when WE'RE out riding, and just leave the other frigging people alone, huh?

What a concept; live and let live, and just mind your own business...!

(AFAIC there's just too damn many control freaks in today's modern USA!!!)
i don't respond often or maybe ever to these kinds of topics unless it's to give out some hurt report type statistic,

but...since i work with a couple of 20 somethings that are not able to independently function because of some asshole drunk driver...sorry eric...i just gotta say...

some people don't like the idea of paying for lifelong care of those who didn't make an educated choice and didn't gear up before their unfortunate accident, uhm irresponsible crash.

Ah, isn't this the same arguement people use against helmet laws and riding motorcycles and scoots altogether?

I'm as Liberal as they come, but if somebody wants to scrape the flesh off their legs, break their kneecaps or knock out all their teeth, that's on them, not me.

I don't want to pay for food stamps for people who turn around and buy season tickets to the Cheifs, eat so many Twinkies that they spend the last five years of their lives in various stages of disabillity or pay for liver transplants for alcoholics, but I guess that's the price we pay for living in a Democracy.

BTW, Kansas has no helmet law. I wear a full face helmet anyway. I see plenty of people who go sans lid I think they're asking for it, but until they ask my opinion, I keep my mouth shut.

By the way, I started the "dark turn" thread because I was noticing the same thing as the Drumwolf. Live and let live, baby!

louie · Post by **louie** » Fri Jun 27, 2008 2:14 am

there's that too.

i don't drink and drive or ride but i will drink, read and type...i'm on vacation folks and this is my first 3 martini lunch so far. everybody should get the chance to have 2 months off work.

my real beef is the lack of education needed to get a license for cars and bikes. well i have lots of beefs or is that beeves. but the idea of knowledge being power isn't new. it's a lot easier to live and let live if everyone were on a level playing field.

it's been a while since the hurt report was brought up so if you haven't yet google it. owning this info is a good way to make educated decisions.

one of my favorite pieces of info from an instructor at the msf is, non biker drivers may not see a bike simply because seeing a bike is not in their bank of knowledge; the brain sees the bike but interrprets it as something else because it's not what is expected,
such as... a buddy riding toward you 15 feet away and you're not accustomed to seeing bikes so your brain tells you it's a car a block away. you go ahead and make that left hand turn and hit the buddy.
honest officer i didn't see it. they've heard it a thousand times.

knowledge is power. that's why 2 strokes tag line is so funny. am i kissing ass again?

louie · Post by **louie** » Fri Jun 27, 2008 2:24 am

KCScooterDude wrote:I'm as Liberal as they come, but ...... Live and let live, baby!

Post by **ericalm** » Fri Jun 27, 2008 3:37 am

Sigh. I was so hoping this thread was dead.

But since it's not... There's a lot of pontificating going on here on both sides of the gear divide. A lot of it seems to miss what the OP was about: a media story that rather irresponsibly advocated illegal and reckless riding. The photo just sort of exacerbated that. As far as I'm concerned, we'll never get the same respect as motorcycles on the road as long as this image is perpetuated. On top of that, people are getting hurt and will continue to be, sometimes because they're under the mistaken impression that they don't need as much gear as they would wear (however much that is) if they were on a MC.

Now, does any of that mean we should be preaching to each other about gear here on the site? Eh, no. I think there are more constructive ways of imparting the information without getting too self-righteous about it. I realize I'm guilty of it on occasion, but it's becoming tiresome—on both sides.

Let's all just take a deep breath and, before we type, ask ourselves if we are really contributing or improving the discourse, providing useful information, or just having trouble exercising the self restraint needed to not say something.

goodbluegrass · Post by **goodbluegrass** » Fri Jun 27, 2008 5:34 am

amen, brother...

louie · Post by **louie** » Fri Jun 27, 2008 10:08 pm

ericalm wrote:Sigh. I was so hoping this thread was dead.

But since it's not... There's a lot of pontificating going on here on both sides of the gear divide. A lot of it seems to miss what the OP was about: a media story that rather irresponsibly advocated illegal and reckless riding. The photo just sort of exacerbated that. As far as I'm concerned, we'll never get the same respect as motorcycles on the road as long as this image is perpetuated. On top of that, people are getting hurt and will continue to be, sometimes because they're under the mistaken impression that they don't need as much gear as they would wear (however much that is) if they were on a MC.

Now, does any of that mean we should be preaching to each other about gear here on the site? Eh, no. I think there are more constructive ways of imparting the information without getting too self-righteous about it. I realize I'm guilty of it on occasion, but it's becoming tiresome—on both sides.

Let's all just take a deep breath and, before we type, ask ourselves if we are really contributing or improving the discourse, providing useful information, or just having trouble exercising the self restraint needed to not say something.

yes sir.