Motorcycle, scooter laws changing

MarsR · Post by **MarsR** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 1:48 pm

in Utah. I found this this morning on our local news. And ya wanna see the wheelies on the freeway?

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=3611617

"Another change for everyone: You can only drive a motorcycle or scooter with an engine as big as, or smaller than, the one you took your test on at the Division of Motor Vehicles."

hcstrider · Post by **hcstrider** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 2:20 pm

I am sure that their heart was in the right place when the Utah legislators drafted this law, they want motorcycle drivers to become safer drivers. However I disagree with certain parts of this law such as:

You can only drive a motorcycle or scooter with an engine as big as, or smaller than, the one you took your test on at the Division of Motor Vehicles.

I took my motorcycle skills test on my Buddy 125 and after I passed the examiner jokingly told me “Now don’t go out and buy a Harley just because you have a motorcycle license”. I didn’t but if I am interpreting this Utah law correctly then I would need a new motorcycle license to drive a Buddy 150 because my original test was on a 125. I suspect that Utah will have to change this part of the new law.

MarsR · Post by **MarsR** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 2:28 pm

Yeah, I don't know what the actual text of the new law is; this is just the way it was reported on TV. But in the past, if you tested on a 100cc or less, that was all you could drive. If you tested on anything over 100cc, you could drive anything. Maybe they have just added some new tiers?

luckyleighton · Post by **luckyleighton** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 2:29 pm

Well laws are drastically different depending on where you live. I got my M license yesterday in AL, only had to take a written test.

I thought that some 16 yr old can do this and then think its time to take a crotch rocket out on the interstate at 100mph. I think a road test should be minimal, just to make sure they have operated the vehicle before. And a 125cc scooter and a 1500cc cruiser are different. Not only the size, but adding shifting and all to the equation.

I am usually not for too many gov't hoops, but it just seems dangerous.

sunshinen · Post by **sunshinen** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 4:21 pm

The most dangerous times on motorcycle are your first six months of riding ... and your first 6 months on a new bike.

It seems they are trying to prevent deaths on new rides by requiring you to actually practice/demonstrate competence on the larger bike before hitting the streets. I can appreciate, or at least accept, that.

cruzzer · Post by **cruzzer** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 4:27 pm

effective july 1, 2008 here in fl it will me mandortary to take the msc prior to being issued a mc endorsement.

with is a good thing i just dont like big gov telling me whats mandortary

scullyfu · Post by **scullyfu** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 4:39 pm

love your avatar, cruzzer.

StL_Stadtroller · Post by **StL_Stadtroller** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 4:42 pm

+1 for tiered licensing.

and +1 for mandatory "sign wearing" (as in "Here's your sign") for anyone who wants to ride a motorcycle with an angine larger than what's found in an everage sized CAR.

MarsR · Post by **MarsR** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 1:24 am

Found this at Utah Rider Education:

Licensing rules change
Tuesday, June 3. 2008
Starting July 8, 2008 Utah will be using a tiered licensing system for motorcycle endorsements.

If a rider tests on a 90cc or less motorcycle or scooter they will be restricted to 90cc or less.
If a rider tests on a 249cc or less motorcycle or scooter they will be restricted to 249cc or less.
If a rider tests on a 649cc or less motorcycle or scooter they will be restricted to 649cc or less.
If a rider tests on a motorcycle or scooter larger than 650cc they will be allowed to ride any motorcycle or scooter.
If you take a motorcycle safety class on a 250cc, successful completion will waive the riding part of the license test for an up to 649cc endorsement. To get an endorsement for motorcycles above 649cc you must use your larger motorcycle in our class. To use your bike in our class you must have a permit, registration, and insurance.

If you currently ride a motorcycle over 649cc you may also obtain a skill test waiver by successfully completing our License Waiver Experienced Rider Course (ERC). The cost for this 5 hour course is $85.

Jackie F · Post by **Jackie F** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:22 am

MarsR wrote:If you take a motorcycle safety class on a 250cc, successful completion will waive the riding part of the license test for an up to 649cc endorsement.

Yes, there are sooo many choices of motorcycles 649cc or under.

Post by **jmazza** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 11:57 am

MarsR wrote:Found this at Utah Rider Education:
Licensing rules change
Tuesday, June 3. 2008
Starting July 8, 2008 Utah will be using a tiered licensing system for motorcycle endorsements.

If a rider tests on a 90cc or less motorcycle or scooter they will be restricted to 90cc or less.
If a rider tests on a 249cc or less motorcycle or scooter they will be restricted to 249cc or less.
If a rider tests on a 649cc or less motorcycle or scooter they will be restricted to 649cc or less.
If a rider tests on a motorcycle or scooter larger than 650cc they will be allowed to ride any motorcycle or scooter.
If you take a motorcycle safety class on a 250cc, successful completion will waive the riding part of the license test for an up to 649cc endorsement. To get an endorsement for motorcycles above 649cc you must use your larger motorcycle in our class. To use your bike in our class you must have a permit, registration, and insurance.

If you currently ride a motorcycle over 649cc you may also obtain a skill test waiver by successfully completing our License Waiver Experienced Rider Course (ERC). The cost for this 5 hour course is $85.

This is not as bad as having to stay at or under the cc's you tested on. I wonder if there's a way to test up at the DMV above the 649cc category without retaking the class on a larger bike.

The libertarian in me doesn't like this, but it really does make sense conceptually. When I got my M endorsement, I thought it was very odd that I could go legally ride a huge bike even though I took my test on a 125cc scooter and haven't been on an actual motorcycle in years.

I'm still upset that FL is not subsidizing the MSF course (currently around $250) that is now required to get a M endorsement. $85 is much more reasonable.

Dibber · Post by **Dibber** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:13 pm

Motorcyclist and now Scooterist have become a big voting group. So big that Minnesota still hasn't been able to pass the Helmet Law. Write you State Congress people and let them know how rediculous this law is. Show them the example listed above and do it very tactful so you sound like a lagitament person.

jperkins · Post by **jperkins** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 1:39 pm

we have some real liberal laws here in oklahoma,---@14 you can drive any bike up to 250cc with just a 20 question multiple choice test and a short ride around the block.

DennisD · Post by **DennisD** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 2:09 pm

hcstrider wrote:I am sure that their heart was in the right place when the Utah legislators drafted this law, they want motorcycle drivers to become safer drivers. However I disagree with certain parts of this law such as:

You can only drive a motorcycle or scooter with an engine as big as, or smaller than, the one you took your test on at the Division of Motor Vehicles.

I took my motorcycle skills test on my Buddy 125 and after I passed the examiner jokingly told me “Now don’t go out and buy a Harley just because you have a motorcycle license”. I didn’t but if I am interpreting this Utah law correctly then I would need a new motorcycle license to drive a Buddy 150 because my original test was on a 125. I suspect that Utah will have to change this part of the new law.

My original motorcycle license road test was taken on a Honda Helix 250cc which weighs 380lbs and has a very long wheelbase for a small wheeled scooter. I failed it the first time because of lack of experience. Later I found out that it had a longer wheelbase than a Sportster and tons of people took very small bikes or scooters borrowed from a friend to take their test. I went back the second time with my Helix and passed.
I agree with the law even if it means that I will have to retake the test to be licensed to ride my 800cc motorcycle.
Effective sometime this year in Florida no motorcycle license will be issued without proof of MSF course completion.

More and more two wheelers on the roads means more and more inexperienced owners means more and more accidents means more and more deaths means more and more regulation.

Why do you think Utah will have to change the part of the law with which you disagree? It doesn't seem that unreasonable although I agree it is inconvenient at the outset for people already licensed. That doesn't seem like a reason to change the law though. At least to me. Of course that's easy to say since I don't live in Utah, but am interested in the different opinions.

Florida repealed their helmet law following heavy lobbying for years. The first rider died the first night the law was repealed. Not wearing a helmet was his right. The new law requires a certain level of insurance to not wear a helmet. Although I wear a helmet all the time on motorcycles, scooters and bicycles I respect the right of others to choose not to do so. I know many who choose not to wear a helmet and think I am foolish to do so. However, as a matter of MY public safety being impacted by others, I do believe that licensing should have MSF course completion and engine size limitation as a requirement.
I intend to write my state reps and start the ball rolling.
Thank you Utah!

Dennis

anndelise · Post by **anndelise** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 2:26 pm

imo,
I've no issue with tiered licensing..
except that there isn't much equivalence with cars/trucks.

There's nothing that prevents a small 2 door hatchback automatic driver from driving a 4 door long bed oversized wheels manual pickup truck.
Now, if one had to take a full driving test with one of those before being allowed to drive one of them, then I'd consider it to be about equivalent to the motorcycle tiering.

On the other hand, there are special licenses for driving busses and semi's, so it's possible that that might be sorta equivalent to the motorcycling tiering.

luckyleighton · Post by **luckyleighton** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 2:31 pm

The thing is that driving a truck over a car is less likely to kill the inhabitant. Its the driver's that the cycle laws protect.

The semi can be dangerous is well, that's why there is a separate license.

DennisD · Post by **DennisD** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 2:34 pm

anndelise wrote:imo,
I've no issue with tiered licensing..
except that there isn't much equivalence with cars/trucks.

There's nothing that prevents a small 2 door hatchback automatic driver from driving a 4 door long bed oversized wheels manual pickup truck.
Now, if one had to take a full driving test with one of those before being allowed to drive one of them, then I'd consider it to be about equivalent to the motorcycle tiering.

On the other hand, there are special licenses for driving busses and semi's, so it's possible that that might be sorta equivalent to the motorcycling tiering.

Not just busses and semi's. ANY vehicle with air brakes requires a CDL. Look into the penalties for violations for CDL holders. Also, requirements to get a CDL have been toughened. Some of this will evenually trickle down to regular license requirements. Just the way it is. More people on the roads. No one cared when the roads were dirt, top speed was 25 and only 100 people had cars.

Dennis

trevo_man · Post by **trevo_man** » Fri Jun 27, 2008 11:04 pm

So what does this mean for those of us in Utah that already have an M endorsement? Am I still ok to ride any motorcycle or do I have to re-take the test?

trevo_man · Post by **trevo_man** » Fri Jun 27, 2008 11:22 pm

trevo_man wrote:So what does this mean for those of us in Utah that already have an M endorsement? Am I still ok to ride any motorcycle or do I have to re-take the test?

I may have answered my own question. According to Driverlicense.utah.gov:

Effective July 8, 2008, a new rule will be in place which will require all new motorcycle riders to be restricted to riding a motorcycle based on the cc size of the motorcycle upon which the rider is tested. The following 3 restrictions will be used:

O = 90 cc or less Motorcycle
2 = 249 cc or less Motorcycle
3 = 649 cc or less Motorcycle

Also:

If you currently have a class A,B,C, or D license with an M endorsement this law will not affect you

If anyone finds out any more information on this please pass it along.. I know there a at least a few Utah riders here that this may concern.

Modern Buddy

Motorcycle, scooter laws changing

Motorcycle, scooter laws changing

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