Who's Crashed? [Crash Reports]

Post by **polianarchy** » Fri Jun 15, 2007 1:49 pm

When the power goes out, I use candles. But not to read by!

Post by **polianarchy** » Fri Jun 15, 2007 1:51 pm

louie wrote:do tell.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v280/ ... 07107a.jpg

Micah_Prophet · Post by **Micah_Prophet** » Fri Jun 15, 2007 2:21 pm

Joining the party -

1. Which Buddy was crashed? black buddy 50
2. Was the crash due to rider error? yes
What time of day did it occur? 5:10
3. Could the crash have been avoided? hmm, yes
4. Was the rider injured? a little bruised up
5. What was the damage to the Buddy? ground down the front right brake lever, scratches all along the side, broken plastic along the headlight shielding
6. Cost of repairs, if any? minor if any - I still need to look into this
7. Does the rider have a motorcycle permit, license or neiher? neither
8. Had the rider completed the MSF course? nope
9. Was the rider the scooter's owner? yes
10. How fast was the rider going? 20mph
11. How far was the rider from home? 30 feet

I feel bad that my wife had to see this - I hit a few loose pebbles turning into our cul-de-sac comming home from work. I was pushing the turn a little and a bit stiff from some excercise - not really sure what happened.

I am very happy to have been wearing most of the right gear - (real boots would have helped). Tore up the shoulder on my Tour Master mesh jacket and am looking into repairs - any suggestions?

brat · Post by **brat** » Fri Jun 15, 2007 2:29 pm

Happy to hear you are not hurt too badly.

As far as your jacket goes, might find a tailor and see if they will make the repairs. They can sew it AND us iron in patches to reinforce the repair. You want to make sure that rip does not reopen if you go down again.

Question??? Did you head hit the ground? IF it did you need to get a new helmet. If you have a Shoei you can send it to them and they will x-ray it to make sure it is fit to still use.

Micah_Prophet · Post by **Micah_Prophet** » Fri Jun 15, 2007 3:02 pm

Thanks for the suggestion and the warning about the helmet - I checked it closely and found no marks, and with the markups on everything else I would have expected to see something if my head really did hit.

The iron on patches are a great idea!

louie · Post by **louie** » Fri Jun 15, 2007 3:33 pm

polianarchy wrote:[Data collection is your religion? Thou must be-eth a LIBRARIAN!!! (or not)

not a librarian

, the daughter of a gambler, sister to 3 engineers and a teacher myself (always thrilled to see that light turning on) who makes decisions by measuring the odds. there are lots of religious terms for the practice.

Elm Creek Smith · Post by **Elm Creek Smith** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 2:30 am

Apparently I am the first "double," but I'll give someone else the "honor" of being the first "triple."

I am now considering buying plastic to replace the scratched up stuff. If I replace the silver on my Classic Black Budd with the orange, I'll match my Oklahoma State University Cowboys team colors. What do y'all think?

ECS

weaseltamer · Post by **weaseltamer** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 4:38 am

Elm Creek Smith wrote:Apparently I am the first "double," but I'll give someone else the "honor" of being the first "triple."

I am now considering buying plastic to replace the scratched up stuff. If I replace the silver on my Classic Black Budd with the orange, I'll match my Oklahoma State University Cowboys team colors. What do y'all think?

ECS

sounds cool!

Post by **ericalm** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:00 am

BlackInkSpot · Post by **BlackInkSpot** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 1:35 pm

1. Which Buddy (50/125) was crashed? Color? - Cream 125
2. Was the crash due to rider error? Yes, I suppose it was. What time of day did it occur? 2:00 PM
3. Could the crash have been avoided? Yes, I suppose it could have if I would seen the multiple "dips" in the road. (I really don't know how to explain these dips, it's like someone took a massive punch bowl and imprinted them in the road about four times in a row.)
4. Was the rider injured? Yes, a large bruise/contusion to the right calf.
5. What was the damage to the Buddy? None - Buddy took it out on my leg.
6. Cost of repairs, if any? N/A
7. Does the rider have a motorcycle permit, license or neither? License.
8. Had the rider completed the MSF course? No. I did read all of the stuff that my husband brought home and I did a lot of practicing manuevers and stuff in the parking lot across from my house.I was scheduled to do with him when he went but unfortunately life had other plans in store for me at that time.
9. Was the rider the scooter's owner? Yes.
10. How fast was the rider going? I was at a dead stop by the time I fell over but before that I was doing approximately 20-25 MPH (maybe more, maybe less...I don't remember)
11. How far was the rider from home? ~10 miles
12. What were the medical costs? N/A
13. What gear did you have on and do you think it helped minimize your injuries in this case? Helmet, Gloves. It didn't minimize it as I laid the bike on the top of my leg. Short of having calf armour on, I don't think anything would have stopped the bruising and even then it would be questionable.
14. What if anything would you do differently? (Have more gear on, take the MSF course, get a license, slowed down etc.) I think experience had a lot to do with it. However, my husband said I did the best thing I could have done - which was slow myself down so I didn't completely tumble the bike over my head or slide out into traffic. (do I beleive him or not? I don't know. He watched the whole thing happen in front of his eyes and I'm sure it scared the piss out of him. )

lobsterman · Post by **lobsterman** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 5:45 pm

May I begin with an apology to anyone whom I have not treated with the utmost respect and sympathy if they have gone down. Mea culpa.

1. Which Buddy (50/125) was crashed? Color? Buddy 125, Orange/Green
2. Was the crash due to rider error? What time of day did it occur? Absolutely rider error. Noonish.
3. Could the crash have been avoided? Yes
4. Was the rider injured? No
5. What was the damage to the Buddy? None really, liberal application of dirt and small leaves
6. Cost of repairs, if any? zero, none required
7. Does the rider have a motorcycle permit, license or neither? motorcycle license
8. Had the rider completed the MSF course? yessir
9. Was the rider the scooter's owner? yup
10. How fast was the rider going? too fast apparently, but in the 25mph range I would guess
11. How far was the rider from home? 4 or 5 miles
12. What were the medical costs? none, but a chiropractor visit might be a good idea
13. What gear did you have on and do you think it helped minimize your injuries in this case? FF helmet, gloves, mesh armored jacket - dunno but I'm glad I had them on
14. What if anything would you do differently? (Have more gear on, take the MSF course, get a license, slowed down etc.) slow down in unfamiliar curves, take the curve properly. Ride more conservatively in unfamiliar territory in general

Clearly my own fault, took a left hand curve that was tighter than I was prepared for too fast and tried to slow down in the curve. I went wide and jumped a curb that thankfully had some nice soft dirt and underbrush on the other side. I may have gone headfirst over the handlebars, in any case I ended up on my back, it all happened very fast so I am not 100% clear on details. I may have scraped the center stand in the curve and over reacted by reducing my lean too much and going wide, but I am not positive. Maybe when we look at the films we can tell for sure what went wrong with the play.

At any rate, a sobering and humbling experience with no long term damage and hopefully some useful lesson learned.

Tbone · Post by **Tbone** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:11 pm

FYI...It's NOT a party

At least having the accident/waiting for scooter to be fixed!

1. Which Scooter was crashed? Color? Vespa LX 150cc. Black with small flyscreen and chrome kit(back only. Sigh the front would have taken on more damage than the bike...)

2. Was the crash due to rider error? Yes, Ego and speed plus other factors. What time of day did it occur? Around 4:30pm

3. Could the crash have been avoided? Yes

4. Was the rider injured? Minor road rash on left leg, sore left shoulder for 3 days form impact.

5. What was the damage to the Scooter?
Road scrape on the back left chrome cowl protector. Some road rash underside of scooter where leg shield meets floor board.
Left Brake lever snapped cleanly off.
Alignment screwy.
Road Rash left turn mirror.
left bubble turn signal smashed
Right mirror, loosened
Small amount of road rash on flyscreen
Faceshield has road rash on upper left eye/temple area. Helmet shocks are toast.

6. Cost of repairs, if any? $250 deductible.

7. Does the rider have a motorcycle permit, license or neither?
Permit

8. Had the rider completed the MSF course? No, 1 day before start of course. 3 days prior to passing skills test 100%!

9. Was the rider the scooter's owner? yes

10. How fast was the rider going? too fast for the left hand turn. I'd guess 15-20 mph.

11. How far was the rider from home? 3 miles

12. What were the medical costs? minimal: cost of Alcohol swap and the IcyHot patches and aspirin.

13. What gear did you have on and do you think it helped minimize your injuries in this case? Gear helped minimalize injury for sure!
3/4 helmet with face shield.
Sunglasses (prescription)
Leather and mesh gloves.
Jacket with armor (Back, shoulder and elbow).
Steel toed shoes.

14. What if anything would you do differently?
I let me ego get the best of me. At a stop light. I legally lane splitted (permitted in CA) pissing off the Cady or Ford 500/new gangster car driver. They were over accelerating into the turn forcing me to go wide. I had been over throttling into the turn in attempt to maintain my "lead" against a 2000+lbs machine. As a pedal bicyclist of 19 years. It's a BAD habit to tap brakes in turns to control the outcome. Works on a pedal bike not a motorized machine! Even though the driver was being reckless by overtaking me in the turn, never argue with a bigger vehicle. The smaller one looses everytime!!!
I was able to walk away from this one! Great lesson learned. Negative, I've been without my bike 1 month. It looks like 1 more before I get her back

sfisher · Post by **sfisher** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 10:26 pm

Second week on my beatiful Italia and I already found a way to scuff it up.

1. Which Buddy (50/125) was crashed? Color? Buddy 125 Italia
2. Was the crash due to rider error? What time of day did it occur?Probably. 5pm.
3. Could the crash have been avoided? Maybe.
4. Was the rider injured? No.
5. What was the damage to the Buddy? Scuffed the light well and low beam no longer works.
6. Cost of repairs, if any? ???
7. Does the rider have a motorcycle permit, license or neither? Temps.
8. Had the rider completed the MSF course? No.
9. Was the rider the scooter's owner? Yes.
10. How fast was the rider going? 15mph.
11. How far was the rider from home? 3 miles.
12. What were the medical costs? Nope.
13. What gear did you have on and do you think it helped minimize your injuries in this case? Corazzo Shop Jacket, Jeans, 3/4 helmet, leather ankle boots, armored gloves.
14. What if anything would you do differently? Waited a little longer to take to the roads after it rains, go painfully slow around bends when the roads are slick. Still waiting to take the MSF, but I am sure that will help.

All I can say is the Corazzo jackets rule

. It started raining about 3pm today, I waited it out and started on the road about 4:30. Heading up a hill and around a sharp turn, my back wheel started slipping.....yeah, that isn't good. I slid a little bit on the pavement, but have no road rash or injuries thanks to Corazzo. Just a little scrape on my left knuckle.

lobsterman · Post by **lobsterman** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 11:06 am

sfisher wrote:Second week on my beatiful Italia and I already found a way to scuff it up....
All I can say is the Corazzo jackets rule . It started raining about 3pm today, I waited it out and started on the road about 4:30. Heading up a hill and around a sharp turn, my back wheel started slipping.....yeah, that isn't good. I slid a little bit on the pavement, but have no road rash or injuries thanks to Corazzo. Just a little scrape on my left knuckle.

Glad you're OK and your Buddy isn't hurt too bad. I rode home in the rain yesterday as well. General advice for rain:
1. ride slower (duh)
2. leave more room in front of you
3. watch out for shiny patches in the pavement (oil, etc)

If you don't mind my asking, what road were you on?

Also, the Modern Buddy mantra:
(everybody together now)
take the MSF Basic Rider and read Proficient Motorcycling

sfisher · Post by **sfisher** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 1:45 pm

Yeah, I slowed down quite a bit, but it only takes one crash to teach you just how much you should slow. And, it certainly renewed my urgency to take the MSF course asap.

I was on McMillan, just past the intersection of McMicken when it starts to cut uphill and curves to the left.

Brunty · Post by **Brunty** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 2:38 pm

1. Which Buddy (50/125) was crashed? Color?
2. Was the crash due to rider error? What time of day did it occur?
3. Could the crash have been avoided?
4. Was the rider injured?
5. What was the damage to the Buddy?
6. Cost of repairs, if any?
7. Does the rider have a motorcycle permit, license or neiher?
8. Had the rider completed the MSF course?
9. Was the rider the scooter's owner?
10. How fast was the rider going?
11. How far was the rider from home?

1. Sunset Buddy 50
2. I crashed coming down a huge hill on Boren avenue in the rain early on a Sunday morning. The light was turning yellow, and I pressed the brakes too hard, lost control and slid out.
3. The crash could have been avoided had I been going slower (well I was only going about 20...) and had i tapped the brakes instead of holding them down.
4. I wasn't hurt besides huge bruise on my elbow and knee, well... i wasn't wearing gloves so my hands were scratched up a bit.
5. The right turn signal busted out, the headlight ring cracked, the right brake lever is completely bent, the side panel cracked and out of place.
6. Repairs. Well.. I haven't attempted to have it repaired yet. Im worried its going to be costly.
7. no, no motorcyle permit or license
8. not taken the MSF course (i plan to after this)
9. rider was owner
10. going 20-25 mph, but downhill in the rain. im never going out in the rain again.
11. about 5 miles from home. after the crash i drove a short ways to a friend's house and left the buddy there

lobsterman · Post by **lobsterman** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 3:42 pm

sfisher wrote:Yeah, I slowed down quite a bit, but it only takes one crash to teach you just how much you should slow. And, it certainly renewed my urgency to take the MSF course asap.

I was on McMillan, just past the intersection of McMicken when it starts to cut uphill and curves to the left.

I know it well, just rode there a week or so ago. That whole section of road bears taking it easy even on dry pavement with all those curves, hills, university traffic, and road construction.

250koala · Post by **250koala** » Sat Aug 18, 2007 2:02 am

I'm not sure if this counts...I laid him down.

1. Which Buddy (50/125) was crashed?125 Color? Creme
2. Was the crash due to rider error? Depends on your definition of "rider" I wasn't even on it. I was off it completely and rolled it off a curb to put it into a parking space. I got caught on the throttle and he jumped out towards the oncoming traffic. It jerked me with it and I managed to wrestle us away from oncoming traffic and the 2 or three cars parked next to the spot.
What time of day did it occur? around 7pm
3. Could the crash have been avoided? The collision with oncoming traffic and parked vehicles was avoided.
4. Was the rider injured? Sore like a mild sunburn elbow, raw knee but skin isn't broken, pulled right leg muscle (ow driving hurts) and seriously BRUISED EGO. Then, the upset stomach after the adrenaline wore off.
5. What was the damage to the Buddy? cracked plastic overhandlebar and bent handlebar..right grip is shredded. Left mirror stem is loose and right one came completely off. I watched the right mirror itself spin in the road and land a short distance away. "Crap, I thought, i'm in for 7years bad luck on top of this." The mirror didn't break.
6. Cost of repairs, if any? I don't know. It will prob hurt worse than my ego. Oh and add the other stuff I wanted for the bike while we are at it.
7. Does the rider have a motorcycle permit, license or neiher? permit
8. Had the rider completed the MSF course? no
9. Was the rider the scooter's owner? yup
10. How fast was the rider going? Not too fast I'm guessing. My jeans werent even snagged.
11. How far was the rider from home? 10 miles?

I had on jeans, HD wolverine boots, mesh nitro jacket, leather gloves and hadn't even removed my helmet. My boots got noticably scuffed. I'm sure they saved my right ankle. I think my right elbow hit the ground before it. It's sore, but I think it's from the armor twisting slightly in my sleeve as I went down. I don't own armored pants and am still in no hurry to get any. I have leather chaps which I wasn't wearing.

I know what I needed to be able to do was hit the kill switch, but wasn't able. The same zippiness I love about the Buddy is the same thing that gave it's jump off the curb. Don't take it down off a curb without killing the engine.

Here's what I learned from the experience.
1. Road rash hurts.
2. Kill the engine before lowering it off a curb.
3. Bike is heavy with out many good places to grab when struggling to put it into a pickup truck that's slightly raised.
4. Before I get it back on the road, put the roadside assist info under the seat.
5. I can always count on my Dad.

Tim Mace · Post by **Tim Mace** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 3:14 pm

I pulled into the Bojangles drive in window to pay ,reached down to get my billfold which was on the floor of my Buddy and lost balance and Scoot slowly fell to the right like the old fart on Laugh In who use to crash his tricycle. Does this qualiffy?

Joel Belsky · Post by **Joel Belsky** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 3:29 pm

What's a Bojangles? What's a "Laugh-In"? Just kidding! You gotta be like my age of at least 55 or older to remember the scenes of the falling over trike. Brings back good memories when I did'nt know from nothing except race car and motorcycles. As far as your billfold being on the floorboard ready to pay for your burger, if I put mine on my floorboard I would be billfold jacked in about 2 seconds.

Post by **polianarchy** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 5:22 pm

Joel Belsky wrote:As far as your billfold being on the floorboard ready to pay for your burger, if I put mine on my floorboard I would be billfold jacked in about 2 seconds.

LOL!!! !!! !!!

I saw that and said to myself, "I bet this dude's in Philly!" And you are.

cthoops · Post by **cthoops** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 9:33 pm

Mr. cthoops says that there are two types of motorcycle/scooterists - those who have crashed, and those who are going to crash. I am now a former member of the latter group.

1. Which Buddy (50/125) was crashed? 125

Color? SI

2. Was the crash due to rider error? I think so. It all happened so quickly. I was about to ride over a slightly raised, brick crosswalk when the driver in front of me stopped short. I slammed on the brakes (the alternative was to rear-end him because I couldn't go left or right - road construction all around) and the scooter slid out to the left underneath me. Next thing I know I'm lying on my right side with my Buddy partly on top of me. I did notice some sand on the crosswalk, but I'm not sure if it was a contributing factor or not.

What time of day did it occur? 8:15 a.m.

3. Could the crash have been avoided? If I had noticed more quickly that the driver had stopped short, or if I hadn't been following him as closely (I was 10th in line at a red light so we were all pretty close together), it probably could have been avoided. Not sure again about the sand variable, however.

4. Was the rider injured? VERY minor scuff/bump on my right elbow (I was wearing a jacket, long pants, helmet, and gloves), but my right foot hurts like hell. I went into the walk-in clinic a few hours later for x-rays but they were negative. Can't imagine how much it would hurt if I HAD broken a bone.

5. What was the damage to the Buddy? Looks all cosmetic. The chrome over the muffler on the right side is scuffed/scratched, and some minor scuffing near the metal area where a passenger can put his or her foot.

6. Cost of repairs, if any? I'm not going to bother getting it fixed. It will serve as a reminder not to get lackadaisical on the scoot.

7. Does the rider have a motorcycle permit, license or neiher? License.

8. Had the rider completed the MSF course? No.

9. Was the rider the scooter's owner? Yes.

10. How fast was the rider going? Couldn't have been more than 15 mph. Probably more like 10.

11. How far was the rider from home? 1/2 mile.

I white-knuckled it home this afternoon - it didn't help that it was raining - and I'm still feeling a bit shaky about the whole thing. Any tips, or have I permanently lost my innocence?

toddrw2251 · Post by **toddrw2251** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:23 pm

Figures my first post on the board would be a crash comment. My Crash was actually 2 yrs ago on a Vespa ET2, but I just bought a Buddy 125 last Monday

Quote:
1. Which Buddy (50/125) was crashed? Color?
2. Was the crash due to rider error? What time of day did it occur?
3. Could the crash have been avoided?
4. Was the rider injured?
5. What was the damage to the Buddy?
6. Cost of repairs, if any?
7. Does the rider have a motorcycle permit, license or neiher?
8. Had the rider completed the MSF course?
9. Was the rider the scooter's owner?
10. How fast was the rider going?
11. How far was the rider from home?

1. black vespa et2
2. little of both. Making a hurried left turn and hit gravel. I layed the scoot down and slid it into the curb. 7pm
3. Yes. First day I ever rode a scooter. Didn't have any instruction as to what I was doing.
4. Bruised and raspberries on my ankle and palm.
5. scraped paint on back left pannel and top of left mirror
6. none. Its amazing what a sharpie marker can do.
7. I didn't then, but I do now.
8. Nope
9. no and it was the day of the scooters purchase.
10. 5-10 mph
11. less than half a mile.

It's all good now. I love my new buddy. I quickly learned through the school of hard knocks to wear protective clothing, a helmet and to not ride something I know nothing about.

lobsterman · Post by **lobsterman** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 3:19 am

cthoops wrote:I white-knuckled it home this afternoon - it didn't help that it was raining - and I'm still feeling a bit shaky about the whole thing. Any tips, or have I permanently lost my innocence?

Innocence lost, yes. Confidence back? Certainly possible. I'd say there are two types of people who crash. Those who stop riding completely, and those who put it behind them. Which camp you join is up to you.

ScooterDave · Post by **ScooterDave** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 6:09 pm

lobsterman wrote:
cthoops wrote:I white-knuckled it home this afternoon - it didn't help that it was raining - and I'm still feeling a bit shaky about the whole thing. Any tips, or have I permanently lost my innocence?
Innocence lost, yes. Confidence back? Certainly possible. I'd say there are two types of people who crash. Those who stop riding completely, and those who put it behind them. Which camp you join is up to you.

I collided with a car yesterday. Bashed my knees pretty good. Minor damage to the LX150. Poped the front fender back out. But, I went down and am still feeling it. After I went down and we did the inspections (The lady I hit did not care and it was my fault technically). I got back on the scooter and rode back to work.

If you are going to ride, chances are, you will go down at some point. It is just like riding a bike. Once you fall off, get back up and ride again.

Dave

Post by **ericalm** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 6:25 pm

lobsterman wrote:
cthoops wrote:I white-knuckled it home this afternoon - it didn't help that it was raining - and I'm still feeling a bit shaky about the whole thing. Any tips, or have I permanently lost my innocence?
Innocence lost, yes. Confidence back? Certainly possible. I'd say there are two types of people who crash. Those who stop riding completely, and those who put it behind them. Which camp you join is up to you.

Honestly, since my crash almost a year ago, scootering hasn't been the same. It did take a while to rebuild confidence, especially riding at night. Scootering is no less enjoyable than it once was, but I'm acutely aware of the potential dangers and the consequences. Sure, on some cognitive level, I had always known crashing was a possibility. But spending a month in a brace and 6 weeks in physical therapy really brings it home.

I'm empathetic with those who give it up after a crash. And there's nothing wrong with re-assessing the risk and making the decision that, for whatever reasons, it's not worth it. It wasn't my decision, but, as I said, there's awareness and then there's firsthand knowledge.

cthoops · Post by **cthoops** » Tue Aug 28, 2007 1:00 am

Innocence lost, yes. Confidence back? Certainly possible. I'd say there are two types of people who crash. Those who stop riding completely, and those who put it behind them. Which camp you join is up to you.

Well, I guess I'm a member of the latter group. My heart still skips a beat when someone brakes in front of me, but I'm making a point of leaving A LOT more room between me and the car in front. Lessons learned - you can't follow as closely on a scoot as you would on a car, and you CAN'T let your mind wander if you can at all help it.

Thanks everyone for the responses. Hopefully I won't be adding to this subject any time in the near future!

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Tue Aug 28, 2007 3:13 am

A very interesting and important theme comes out when you read through this thread. Most crashes involve scooter riders with very little experience (not so surprizing) and very few of the riders involved have taken a motorcycle/scooter safety course. Many say they will now. Other new riders should take this to heart.

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Aug 28, 2007 3:56 am

Dooglas wrote:A very interesting and important theme comes out when you read through this thread. Most crashes involve scooter riders with very little experience (not so surprizing) and very few of the riders involved have taken a motorcycle/scooter safety course. Many say they will now. Other new riders should take this to heart.

I think that has something to do with the fact that the Buddy is still a fairly new product and because its price and performance make it very appealing to new riders. That is to say, it's not that experienced riders are immune from crashing, just that there are a higher proportion of inexperienced riders on MB than other forums.

Search ModernVespa, which has a larger membership, and you'll find that as many experienced riders go down as new ones. What's different are the reasons. (This is purely anecdotal here, not a scientific survey or anything like that...) Experienced riders seem to crash due to overconfidence, riding beyond their abilities or in unfamiliar conditions. This commonly includes taking a curve too fast, hitting unexpected water, sand, ice, etc., losing control at high speed.

And, of course, there's the SUV swerving into your lane, the guy on the cell phone turning in front of you, and all those other things that can or cannot be avoided depending on (or regardless of) experience or skill.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 12:50 am

ericalm wrote: Search ModernVespa, which has a larger membership, and you'll find that as many experienced riders go down as new ones. What's different are the reasons. (This is purely anecdotal here, not a scientific survey or anything like that...) Experienced riders seem to crash due to overconfidence, riding beyond their abilities or in unfamiliar conditions. This commonly includes taking a curve too fast, hitting unexpected water, sand, ice, etc., losing control at high speed.

I don't buy that personally. I accept that the reasons are different, but I don't accept that the frequency is the same. As a small sample of one, I am a much safer and less error prone rider now than when I was first learning and so are other riders I know. We don't drop our scoot every few weeks like some noobies. I have never dropped a scooter and I've put alot of miles on them. One cycle accident years ago when a fellow ran a red light. Never underestimate the value of experience and defensive driving (and a good motorcycle/scooter safety course for those just starting out).

louie · Post by **louie** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 1:25 pm

Dooglas wrote:
ericalm wrote: Search ModernVespa, which has a larger membership, and you'll find that as many experienced riders go down as new ones. What's different are the reasons. (This is purely anecdotal here, not a scientific survey or anything like that...) Experienced riders seem to crash due to overconfidence, riding beyond their abilities or in unfamiliar conditions. This commonly includes taking a curve too fast, hitting unexpected water, sand, ice, etc., losing control at high speed.
I don't buy that personally. I accept that the reasons are different, but I don't accept that the frequency is the same. As a small sample of one, I am a much safer and less error prone rider now than when I was first learning and so are other riders I know. We don't drop our scoot every few weeks like some noobies. I have never dropped a scooter and I've put alot of miles on them. One cycle accident years ago when a fellow ran a red light. Never underestimate the value of experience and defensive driving (and a good motorcycle/scooter safety course for those just starting out).

yeah, that's a stat from Hurts report. Most crashes happen with less than 5 years experience (i think it's 5). It coudl be just weeding out of those who shouldn't be riding anyway. I've still got 4 years to find out myself.

Post by **polianarchy** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:27 pm

1. Which Buddy (50/125) was crashed? Color? 2006 Buddy 125, pink
2. Was the crash due to rider error? What time of day did it occur? not my error, after-work rush hour 4:30pm
3. Could the crash have been avoided? if that person driving the car had made a signal when turning left from the right-hand lane, probably.
4. Was the rider injured? a few small light bruises on my leg is all. good thing i was wearing my armored jacket and gloves, though! i might have gotten bruises or even cuts on my arms.
5. What was the damage to the Buddy? a few scuff marks on the side of the floor board and a scratch on the tip of the right-hand brake lever. also, Pinky didn't start up for about 10 minutes afterwards. but then as i was waiting for roadside assistance to pick up, she did. i then drove on home.
6. Cost of repairs, if any? no harm, no foul. i did the 4k check up 500 miles early, though. so let's say $149
7. Does the rider have a motorcycle permit, license or neither? license.
8. Had the rider completed the MSF course? yes, in april
9. Was the rider the scooter's owner? there is no other rider but me
10. How fast was the rider going? less than 10 mph, thank goodness! we were beginning to move from a newly-changed green light.
11. How far was the rider from home? 2-3 miles. it's my daily commute home from work.

jetboy · Post by **jetboy** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:53 pm

Poli - Bummer! My condolences and glad to hear you didn't suffer worse. Sounds like the scoot made out as well as can be expected. How about some deets on the driver. They stop?

-jetboy

Post by **polianarchy** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:00 pm

jetboy wrote:Poli - Bummer! My condolences and glad to hear you didn't suffer worse. Sounds like the scoot made out as well as can be expected. How about some deets on the driver. They stop?

-jetboy

Thanks very much, jetboy. Yes, she did stop, thankfully. And so did about two pedestrians and the guy driving his car right behind me. One of the pedestrians picked up and wheeled my scooter up onto the sidewalk for me. I was totally shaky/nauseous with adrenaline, and I was doing the "Am I okeh?" inventory. I couldn't believe I wasn't hurt.

Seriously, it could have been a lot worse. There's a couple of HCSC fellas who are laid up bad from some nasty wrecks. I got lucky, and I can't stress how glad I was that I was all geared up.

Keys · Post by **Keys** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:48 pm

Y'know, I'm convinced there are only three reasons NOT to use signals;
1. They don't work on that piece of crap you're driving.
2. You're too stupid to know how to operate them.
3. You're just too flippin' lazy!

Back when I was a truck driver by trade, I used to say that on the CB to other truck driver who didn't use their signals. You'd be surprised how many offered to whoop my ass for saying that to them. I always graciously tried to accept their offers, but none was very serious, I guess.

--Keys

chickierider · Post by **chickierider** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 8:25 pm

Poli-- I'm glad you're okay! Was it the Buddy Roadside Assistance folks who helped you out or just random, kind people? And when did it happen?

As for me and mine... (three months ago)

1. Which Buddy (50/125) was crashed? Color? '07 Creme Buddy 125

2. Was the crash due to rider error? What time of day did it occur? Absolutely. 1:30pm

3. Could the crash have been avoided? Yes. I should've realized that I can't speed up and brake short at stop signs, like most people do in cars, and that I shouldn't care too much about the feelings of the drivers behind me about how far I am from the rear bumper of the ridiculous SUV in front of me. It was a beginner's error.

4. Was the rider injured? Yes, but not too badly. The chin strap from my helmet cut into my neck (it hurt to swallow for a few weeks), my right wrist was black and blue for a while, the left brake lever cut into my hiking boots and gouged my bunion (of all things!), and my knees were banged and bloody--I think I scraped off an old keloid scar and replaced it with a new injury that looks like a cervix. Didn't go to a hospital though. I wore leather gloves, a new modular G-Max helmet (for the first time, too), a leather mc jacket, hiking boots and jeans. I didn't even know how badly my knees were bleeding until I picked up the scoot and rode it to my next destination. It took weeks to pick the denim out of the scabs, and I'm still debating whether to invest in armored pants.

5. What was the damage to the Buddy? Brake lever scraped, front bezzle cracked, scrape marks on the body (left side), left grip looked a little chewed.

6. Cost of repairs, if any? Unknown--my Stella-riding Mr. Wonderful drove it to the dealership a week later for the 200 mile check-up and replaced the bezzle, brake lever, and grip without telling me. I had secretly planned only to fix the bezzle, hoping the rest of the injuries would inspire me to redecorate my Bubu, but I'm glad he did it and he wouldn't tell me how much he spent. I gave him money anyway (like $150, I think).

7. Does the rider have a motorcycle permit, license or neiher? License.

8. Had the rider completed the MSF course? Yes, but a full year before buying the scooter.

9. Was the rider the scooter's owner? Yep.

10. How fast was the rider going? Hard to say. I would guess between 10 & 15 mph, but this happened because I accelerated too fast and panic-braked.

11. How far was the rider from home? 3 miles from home, 1/2 mile from my previous destination, & 1/4 mile from where I was going.

hcstrider · Post by **hcstrider** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 8:50 pm

Keys wrote:Y'know, I'm convinced there are only three reasons NOT to use signals;

There is a 4th reason for not using your signal. When driving in rush hour traffic if you use your turn signal to change lanes that is an indication to all of the drivers around you that you want to change lanes and seeing this the other drivers will take countermeasures and speed up to prevent you from changing lanes. It is better just change lanes without using your signal this way the drivers around you don’t know that you are changing lanes and they are caught by surprise and unable to take countermeasures to prevent you from changing lanes.

I am partially joking about this but one of the best things that happened to me when I learned to drive a scooter was that I became a better driver no matter what vehicle I was driving. Over the years I have accumulated a lot of bad driving habits but learning to drive a scooter forced me to think about my bad driving habits and change those habits so that I became a better driver. One of the scary things for me is that I am now more aware of the drivers around me and I am aware of just how bad their driving is.

louie · Post by **louie** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 11:55 pm

polianarchy wrote:1. Which Buddy (50/125) was crashed? Color? 2006 Buddy 125, pink
.

eegads Polianarchy, when i see this thread has a new post i always hold my breath when i read it. glad you're ok and you really aren't welcome to the club, as none of us are.

Keys · Post by **Keys** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 3:17 am

Jeez, Hcstrider, the unannounced lane change was one of the biggest reasons I ever had for locking up the brakes on my 18-wheeler!! If you don't let that driver in the 80,000 pound vehicle know what's going to happen, don't get pissed because he's unable to respond like a 2000 car and makes road pizza out of you!!!

--Keys

hcstrider · Post by **hcstrider** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 3:00 pm

Keys wrote:Jeez, Hcstrider, the unannounced lane change was one of the biggest reasons I ever had for locking up the brakes on my 18-wheeler!! If you don't let that driver in the 80,000 pound vehicle know what's going to happen, don't get pissed because he's unable to respond like a 2000 car and makes road pizza out of you!!!

--Keys

I wholeheartedly agree with you on the proper use of turn signals.

The sentiment that I intended to convey was that learning to drive a scooter made me a better driver no matter what vehicle I was driving. I naively thought that I was a good driver because I have never had an accident and it has been over 30 years since my last ticket for a moving violation. But over the last 30 years I have also accumulated a lot of bad driving habits such as not always using a signal when I should. Learning to drive a scooter forced me to re-evaluate my driving habits and make the necessary changes to improve my driving habits.

Post by **polianarchy** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 7:09 pm

chickierider wrote:Poli-- I'm glad you're okay! Was it the Buddy Roadside Assistance folks who helped you out or just random, kind people? And when did it happen?

As for me and mine... (three months ago)

Thanks very much, chickierider. The dude who moved my scooter for me was just a random pedestrian. I actually never got the Roadside Assistance people on the phone. I was listening to their hold message for a few minutes when I decided to try starting Pinky Tuscadero up again. Lo and behold, she started, and the brakes, tires, and signals were all okeh.

The wreck happened a few weeks ago. I just really did NOT feel like talking about it right away, you know?

Yikes! That sucks you got so badly hurt. I hope you're okeh now?

louie wrote:eegads Polianarchy, when i see this thread has a new post i always hold my breath when i read it. glad you're ok and you really aren't welcome to the club, as none of us are.

Dude, louie...I know. I'm bummed I had to post such a downer post, but I'm glad y'all are here to read it and let me vent a bit. Thanks so much for your kind words!

Post by **ericalm** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 8:31 pm

Keys wrote:Y'know, I'm convinced there are only three reasons NOT to use signals;
1. They don't work on that piece of crap you're driving.
2. You're too stupid to know how to operate them.
3. You're just too flippin' lazy!

Reason I most frequently encounter: Too busy talking on your damn cell phone.

I am very eager for the handsfree-only law to go into effect here in CA. Yes, I know that doesn't greatly reduce the risk of the driver crashing, but maybe, at least, people will go back to using signals and help make things a little safer for us scooterists (and those motorcycle people, too).

Keys · Post by **Keys** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 10:49 pm

That falls into the "Too Flippin' Lazy" catagory.

About the "hands-free" stuff...I really don't think it'll make much difference since the problem isn't so much that their hands aren't where they ought to be...it's their MINDS that aren't where they're supposed to be!! Doesn't matter WHAT your hands are doing...if your mind isn't on the job at hand (busy talkin' to Aunt Sue or whoever), the rest of us will suffer for your distraction.

Politicians just don't get it. "Hands Free" laws will not address the 'distraction' factor.

--Keys

EBee · Post by **EBee** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 11:00 am

Many's the time I've thought of making a bumper sticker that says "Say please and thank you--use your signals!" or "They're not just painted on--use your signals!". Think they would sell?

megaterium · Post by **megaterium** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 6:45 pm

1. Which Buddy (50/125) was crashed? Color? Buddy 125 Cream
2. Was the crash due to rider error? What time of day did it occur? Eh, kinda. Noon.
3. Could the crash have been avoided? Maybe.
4. Was the rider injured? No.
5. What was the damage to the Buddy? Scuffed the right mirror, right handle-throttle, brake and the right silver passenger foot thingie.
6. Cost of repairs, if any? nah, the scratches give her character
7. Does the rider have a motorcycle permit, license or neither? license
8. Had the rider completed the MSF course? Yep, a few months ago
9. Was the rider the scooter's owner? Yes.
10. How fast was the rider going? Maybe 5-10mph
11. How far was the rider from home? 'Bout 15 miles
12. What were the medical costs? Nope.
13. What gear did you have on and do you think it helped minimize your injuries in this case? Corazzo Shop Jacket, Jeans, full face helmet, tennis shoes (I know, should wear boots), armored gloves. I'm not really sure. Adrenaline is a crazy thing, I'm not sure how I landed or even if I jumped off/fell off, I just remember sitting on the ground afterwards, staring at the Buddy thinking "hmmm, that's not good"
14. What if anything would you do differently? I was turning a corner into an alley/one way road, and there was a dumpster on the corner so I didn't see a car coming out towards me. I slammed on my brakes and either locked them up or just dumped b/c I was braking in a turn, I'm not sure as I don't remember. The alley is next to a resteraunt I frequent, and cars rarely are coming out at that time of day so I probably didn't "look enough". With the dumpster in the way (it was a small, beige car) I'm not sure if it could have been avoided.

Oh well, at least I got my first crash out of the way. You know the saying. I almost feel more comfortable riding now that I've dumped her and she still runs/I wasn't injured. I know it could have been much worse, so I'm very lucky. The driver of the car coming out of the alley asked me 3x if I was OK, she was very concerned as was another group of people walking by. Another man driving by stopped and asked if I needed help picking Buddy up, so that was the positive part of the experience.

Post by **ericalm** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:04 pm

megaterium, Sorry to hear about the crash but, as always, glad you're okay. I suppose the silver lining of minor crashes like this is that they're good reminders that problems can happen anywhere, at any time.

Which is why I honked and yelled at a lady in a SUV yesterday. She was talking on her cell phone of course, and nearly swerved into me because she changed lanes without bothering to look. I've already had one crash because of a similar thing happening, but I'm always on the lookout now! Grrr.

BTW, she continued talking on the phone and driving like crap for at least a few miles.

megaterium · Post by **megaterium** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 2:15 am

Ergh, SUV drivers on cell phones! Ericalm, I was very sorry to read your posts about your crash and feel very fortunate that mine was so minor. The only two times I've almost been taken out by cagers was in the Plaza area in Kansas City, so I avoid driving through now, bypass any way possible. I don't want to stereotype but I've noticed a higher % of SUVs passing me at crazy speeds/driving carelessly than cars and trucks, may just be my observational bias.
Glad you're OK, and thanks for the message.

jperkins · Post by **jperkins** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 12:25 am

yeah i am an idiot........I hit a car in my people 250 today, I am okay, a bit sore. The bike is still in pretty good shape, it needs one new piece of plastic and a few scratches fixed. Dealer thinks about $80 bucks total.

I just feel like an idiot. the Camery i hit has between $500 and $1000 in damage.

Bethers · Post by **Bethers** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 12:27 am

Just read the entire thread and thought it deserved a bump - plus wanted to make a couple comments.

I noticed how many accidents were in turning/at intersections. Something else learned at an MSF class is that intersections are the most dangerous places for motorcycles/scooters - and where it's most important to be aware of everything around us.

As to cell phones - I actually don't like the hands free - I know to be worried when I see the idiot with the phone at their ear, as we know their mind isn't on the road. I might not be as cautious around the one using handsfree - and that could be my mistake.

Hope I don't ever have to post in this thread about an accident - and I'm happy that everyone here is doing well after theres.

Post by **ericalm** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 12:36 am

Bethers wrote:Just read the entire thread and thought it deserved a bump - plus wanted to make a couple comments.

I noticed how many accidents were in turning/at intersections. Something else learned at an MSF class is that intersections are the most dangerous places for motorcycles/scooters - and where it's most important to be aware of everything around us.

As to cell phones - I actually don't like the hands free - I know to be worried when I see the idiot with the phone at their ear, as we know their mind isn't on the road. I might not be as cautious around the one using handsfree - and that could be my mistake.

Hope I don't ever have to post in this thread about an accident - and I'm happy that everyone here is doing well after theres.

That's a good point about being able to see people on cell phones. Really, after trying to keep track of all of them, I now just assume everyone is on the phone or otherwise distracted. It's the "ride like no one can see you" approach. I know the hands-free laws are somewhat controversial because they're supposedly not very effective. When the CA law goes into effect this summer, I doubt anyone will be much safer.

Intersections are still the scariest places for me, especially in LA where left turn arrows are rare ad where cars feel like they have 3 seconds after a light turns red to make it through.

But, hey, I'm crash-free for almost 16 months!

Modern Buddy

Who's Crashed? [Crash Reports]

Re: Who's Crashed?

Bojangles?

Re: Bojangles?

Crashed?

Crashed?

Re: Crashed?

Re: Crashed?

Re: Crashed?

I am an idiot