Modern Buddy

Wanted to mentioned that I brought my St. Tropez in today for its 300 mile service. So far, have had no problems at all. Anyway, after they were done with my service, the manager mentioned that they changed out the gas cap with a vented version that Genuine had sent to the dealers because of the vapor lock issue. May want to contact your dealers to see if they have the new caps available.

Good to know that they're preemptively changing the caps!

I think the last shipment of 08's our shop received had different caps but we didn't have an early 08 to compare to

btw apparently my little gas cap didnt do the job (ie all the posts about my scooters issues) I called my dealer to setup an appointment, they said they would send me a new gas cap in the mail first to see if it fixed all the problems. Seems to be running like a dream now

Moral of the story: cant drive to your dealer? call them they might just mail you one

addictionriot wrote:btw apparently my little gas cap didnt do the job (ie all the posts about my scooters issues) I called my dealer to setup an appointment, they said they would send me a new gas cap in the mail first to see if it fixed all the problems. Seems to be running like a dream now

Moral of the story: cant drive to your dealer? call them they might just mail you one

What do you mean your cap didn't work? Did you drill it and it still didn't work?

I drilled mine and have had no issues. And this has been two months of driving and 1680 miles.

Just called my dealer and they are not aware of any vapor lock issue and have no replacement gas caps.




Keep in mind, this is also the dealer who refused to change the gear oil at the first service because "no scooter needs it done that early."

Orange Guy wrote:Just called my dealer and they are not aware of any vapor lock issue and have no replacement gas caps.




Keep in mind, this is also the dealer who refused to change the gear oil at the first service because "no scooter needs it done that early."

Well, FWIW, this isn't a problem with the 125s, just the 150s. If the 125s get the metal tank in the future, they'll come with the newer caps.

ericalm wrote:

Orange Guy wrote:Just called my dealer and they are not aware of any vapor lock issue and have no replacement gas caps.




Keep in mind, this is also the dealer who refused to change the gear oil at the first service because "no scooter needs it done that early."

Well, FWIW, this isn't a problem with the 125s, just the 150s. If the 125s get the metal tank in the future, they'll come with the newer caps.

I have a 125 and it has happened to mine. I drilled per the dealer and have had no problems since. However mine is a relatively new one so maybe I have an '08 1/2 model but I do have a metal tank.

ericalm wrote:Well, FWIW, this isn't a problem with the 125s, just the 150s. If the 125s get the metal tank in the future, they'll come with the newer caps.

Umm ... my 125 HAS a metal tank. I just went and checked.

It's not just the 150s! My '08 Buddy 125 also has a metal gas tank. Also stalled a few times while driving. Also leaks fuel out the vapor canister, even at 3/4 tank.

I drilled the cap, and the stalling ceased immediately.

But it still pisses fuel out on the ground while parked, and sometimes while on the move. I'd like to know when Genuine is going to take some action. Perhaps a recall?

Texas Tornado wrote:

ericalm wrote:Well, FWIW, this isn't a problem with the 125s, just the 150s. If the 125s get the metal tank in the future, they'll come with the newer caps.

I have a 125 and it has happened to mine. I drilled per the dealer and have had no problems since. However mine is a relatively new one so maybe I have an '08 1/2 model but I do have a metal tank.

Oof—I meant new design tanks with the new vapor system, which is just in the Internationals for now. Regardless, I have not heard about this problem with 125s until now. Why weren't we hearing of vapor locks until this year?

Wingman wrote:It's not just the 150s! My '08 Buddy 125 also has a metal gas tank. Also stalled a few times while driving. Also leaks fuel out the vapor canister, even at 3/4 tank.

I drilled the cap, and the stalling ceased immediately.

But it still pisses fuel out on the ground while parked, and sometimes while on the move. I'd like to know when Genuine is going to take some action. Perhaps a recall?

Have you talked to your dealer about this? This is not in line with the symptoms others with vapor lock have had. If your scooter is still under warranty, it just needs to be fixed.

Yeah, I talked to the dealer about it when it first happened, and again when he did the first service. I haven't really pressed him about it, and in turn, he hasn't pressed Genuine.

I guess I didn't realize that my Buddy's symptoms were all that different from what many '08 owners were experiencing.

I'll have to make sure not to procrastinate, but I'm biding my time until Genuine offers an official, reasonable solution.

Wingman wrote:I'll have to make sure not to procrastinate, but I'm biding my time until Genuine offers an official, reasonable solution.

They have: they sent out replacement gas caps to all the dealers. That's it and it seems to have fixed the problem. If you drilled your cap and are still experiencing fuel issues, then it likely won't be addressed by Genuine because it's not a prevalent issue.

The only way Genuine knows about these kinds of issues is through the dealers, and the dealers are the ones responsible to making warranty repairs and filing warranty claims. They're the primary contacts for both owners and the company.

I think you should definitely push the dealer on it!

For what its worth, my '08 125 DOES have a metal tank and I purchased it at the begining of March, so I don't really think its an "2008 1/2" like Ericalm supposed, and has had this vapor lock issue. My dealer had not heard of the issue before mine, but called Genuine to ask them. They said that the 125 could possibly have the problem as well. They got me a replacement cap and I've not had any issues since.

No issues yet on the St. Tropez. Is there a way to tell if you have the "new" cap?

Unless your dealer was proactive and replaced the cap themselves then you most likely have the original cap. I brought up the vapor lock issue to my dealer when I was getting my first service done and he said that so long as I avoided overfilling the tank I wouldn't have that problem. It is only when the vapor hose gets gas in it that vapor lock becomes an issue. I have still gone ahead and done the drilling fix myself but wanted to pass on this response.

OK, now I have overfilled it a couple of times. Don't you hate when the pump doesn't shut off? Anyway, I have experienced a slight stumble and hesitation about half a block later, then everything back to normal.

olhogrider wrote:OK, now I have overfilled it a couple of times. Don't you hate when the pump doesn't shut off? Anyway, I have experienced a slight stumble and hesitation about half a block later, then everything back to normal.

Yeah I never rely on pump shut off with the Buddy. I hold the nozzle just inside the tank and fill it until it starts to bubble up a bit. Then it's a fun game of topping it off until it reaches about an inch below the lip inside the tank.

which is the new cap ???

there is a medal one and a plastic one ( mine is plastic )

i work in a large scooter store and we sell lots of buddys i havent heard anything about the gas caps and i dont belive we got a shipment of new caps

ydogi wrote:which is the new cap ???

there is a medal one and a plastic one ( mine is plastic )

i work in a large scooter store and we sell lots of buddys i havent heard anything about the gas caps and i dont belive we got a shipment of new caps

If you have a plastic cap your fine.

so this is the old cap, right(minus the holes):



My 2 week old Italia has shut down about 6 or so times. Granted, i live in Alabama in the summer and I'm guessing the heat radiating off of the street was 100 degrees each time it happened. I drip gas like it's free everytime I drive. My dealer knows about the vapor lock and the dripping gas. After it sputtered and shut down, I drove it down to him and he test-drove it around. We tried out a new gas cap(also the metal one) and it didn't help. He stayed late on a friday, took the bike apart and found a manufactures defect in the carburetor and he fixed that. (Kudos to Magic City for staying late to get me going again on a friday!) All seemed good until I drove it again on a super-blazing day. It died again. So I figure the vapor lock problem is indeed a problem.

Anyway, my gas cap looks like this. So, I suspect I'll be drilling it.

Cheers-
Todd

Ps. This is my intro as well, first post!

Edited because I can't read....

(stuff about your cap already being drilled has been removed from your memory completely)

To date, I still have yet to experience this issue at all. I also leave 2" minimum at the top of the tank whenever I fill it up. There's another thread on the oil being overfilled possibly causing stalling issue. Maybe have your guys at the shop look into the amount of oil. Too much in a small engine like this could cause it to basically strangle itself out.

sorry, that photo somewhat clouded the issue. It is a photo someone else posted of a drilled cap, mine thusfar hasn't been drilled, but looks like that metal cap. Anyone got a photo of the infamous "fixed" cap from genuine?

On a side note, I keep getting reports from my wife that the weather is primo in Alabama the last few days. By that, it's been much cooler....vapor lock friendly weather. I've been freezing to death in the bay area by comparison to the upper 90's that i left a few days ago. Suffice it to say, I'm missing that scooter and that weather change.

I've read the oil level threads, I'll have to look into it when I get back.

Cheers

I have one of the "Official" Genuine caps, and its drilled basically exactly like was suggested here. The placement is just a hair different, but not enough to need it's own picture

Gracias!

Forgive my ignorance, but where exactly are the instructions for drilling the gas cap? I've looked in a lot of places and searched for it...

Well, there's two options Drill a 4.38 inch hole in the side of your Buddy right above the Buddy logo until you reach the tank, this will vent the tank, or you could follow the directions <a href="viewtopic.php?t=5542">that you can find here.</a>

i think a 4.38 inch hole is way too small.

Maybe it wasn't clear, the hole is supposed to go ALL the way through, from one Buddy logo to the next, so there's one on each side. If you see sloshing, don't worry thats normal. Honest.

exactly, avoid large potholes.........

verdecalavera wrote:i think a 4.38 inch hole is way too small.

You such a wisea$$, Doctor Science PhD. You know they mean a 4.36 meter hole.

Kaos wrote:Well, there's two options Drill a 4.38 inch hole in the side of your Buddy right above the Buddy logo until you reach the tank, this will vent the tank, or you could follow the directions <a href="viewtopic.php?t=5542">that you can find here.</a>

Thanks, chief!

I believe I have suffered from vapor lock and wanted specifics on how to drill the gas cap. From the pic earlier in this thread, it looks like i should drill across the cap through the part that is used to twist.

Should I drill all the way through both sides of the cap?

I do not need to drill down through the cap, correct?

I just got mine from a new shipment that was delivered to Scooter Works in late July. I assume that I have the new style gas cap that was supposed to be vented. Can anyone post a pic of a confirmed new style cap?

Schwiering wrote:I believe I have suffered from vapor lock and wanted specifics on how to drill the gas cap. From the pic earlier in this thread, it looks like i should drill across the cap through the part that is used to twist.

Should I drill all the way through both sides of the cap?

I do not need to drill down through the cap, correct?

I just got mine from a new shipment that was delivered to Scooter Works in late July. I assume that I have the new style gas cap that was supposed to be vented. Can anyone post a pic of a confirmed new style cap?

The new vented caps look basically the same as the ones that people have modified themselves.

I had my first service last week and I talked to the guys about it. They didn't change my gas cap because they saw that I had already drilled it.
all is good...

The problem of vapor lock is not being adressed by the so called repairs. The smog system is being bypassed, not repaired. This is absolutly against the law and when the EPA cathes this genuine and the dealers will be fined. This condition has been going on for at least 6 months and no engineering solution has been forthcoming from genuine to fix it. I don't think this company is being fair to it's customers in this situation.

5 bud7 wrote:The problem of vapor lock is not being adressed by the so called repairs. The smog system is being bypassed, not repaired. This is absolutly against the law and when the EPA cathes this genuine and the dealers will be fined. This condition has been going on for at least 6 months and no engineering solution has been forthcoming from genuine to fix it. I don't think this company is being fair to it's customers in this situation.

Uh, yeah… This may sound like a strange thing to ask, but do you have anything to support the claim that this is illegal or that they're violating EPA regs? As far as I know, the vented caps were supposed to ship with the scoots with the new vapor system, didn't due to an error, so new caps were sent out.

Yes eric, i'm sure. Why would you need a vapor recovery system if you alowed the gas fumes to escape before the unit This isn't a new thing, its been on cars for years. If when you bought your new volvo, the dealer said don,t fill up the gas tank, would you have bought it? There is a correct way to make repairs, and this is not it.

5 bud7 wrote:Yes eric, i'm sure. Why would you need a vapor recovery system if you alowed the gas fumes to escape before the unit This isn't a new thing, its been on cars for years. If when you bought your new volvo, the dealer said don,t fill up the gas tank, would you have bought it? There is a correct way to make repairs, and this is not it.

I didn't ask if you were sure; I asked if you could back accusations of illegal activity. That's a pretty serious claim to be making based on "common knowledge." Before you get people all worked up over possible law breaking and so on, it would be good to have something to back that. I'm not disagreeing with you, but because it's a serious accusation, I feel that I have some responsibility to make sure there's a valid, documented basis for this.

There are a number of motorcycle parts stores (Motorcycle Superstore, BikeBandit) selling vented caps—are you saying that's illegal, too?

Genuine's not telling people not to fill their tanks, BTW. They're telling them not to overfill them beyond what's recommended.

New Owners: don't assume you've gotten the new cap to prevent vapor-lock.

After I had brought-up the issue of the vapor-lock problem that I read about here at MB, my rep told me that he had his techs switch out the cap (my new Buddy is still at the store).

Being new to all this, I went over to the scoot opened the seat and took off the cap. Holding it to the rep, I asked if this was the new cap to prevent vapor-lock 'where is the hole?' He replied no, they forgot to switch it out.

Now it is switched.

BTW, overall I am very happy with the service from my scoot dealership.

Separate from the vapor-lock issue, yesterday at Vespa Portland, a woman road in with her pink Buddy 50 leaking gasoline beyond a small drip.

Apparently, she had recently dropped her Buddy a bit and that had affected the is it flow-meter(?) gauge so it wasn't registering the amount of new gasoline being pumped into the tank. She put way too much gas in there.

Generally, the advice was to eyeball and closely monitor how much gas is going in just in case the gauge reader is not working and/or someone overfills. Probably good to keep in mind if you ever loan-out your scoot.

Bottom line: her bill was about $175 to repair, replace, and rebuild. That is an expensive gasoline lesson.

Portland_Rider wrote:Separate from the vapor-lock issue, yesterday at Vespa Portland, a woman road in with her pink Buddy 50 leaking gasoline beyond a small drip.

Apparently, she had recently dropped her Buddy a bit and that had affected the is it flow-meter(?) gauge so it wasn't registering the amount of new gasoline being pumped into the tank. She put way too much gas in there.

Generally, the advice was to eyeball and closely monitor how much gas is going in just in case the gauge reader is not working and/or someone overfills. Probably good to keep in mind if you ever loan-out your scoot.

Bottom line: her bill was about $175 to repair, replace, and rebuild. That is an expensive gasoline lesson.

Interesting, as I regularly fill my tank nearly to the brim and have not ever leaked a drop. I DO have the replacement cap though.

Hi Kaos,

No idea what the factors involved here are from the size, design, and material differences: she has a 50cc and you have a 125cc. I believe that there may have been additional yet closely related damages between the gauge and some tube?

On all this mechanical-technical assessment, I am out of my league here.

On the vapor-lock issue, I was told that it has to do with plastic tanks being able to breathe while metal tanks do not breathe. I was under the previous understanding that the vapor-lock problem is for the 150s with the impression that the 150 tank is metal while the 125 is plastic.

Is the 125 tank metal or plastic?

PR

ericalm wrote:As far as I know, the vented caps were supposed to ship with the scoots with the new vapor system, didn't due to an error, so new caps were sent out.

You cannot have a vented gas cap if you have a EVAP system. The two do not go together. I am a ASE master technician with over 20 years of experience.

I think I have discussed this before but for some reason you don't want to believe me.....

The reason the scooter came with a charcoal canister.....you know the one that leaks all over the exhaust if filled to much or if it gets warm enough fuel is forced out on the exhaust.....even if you only have a 1/2 tank is to keep the fuel vapors from escaping into the atmosphere. Vented gas caps pollute the air because it allows fumes to evaporate into the air. They would not but a evaporative system on the scooter plus a vented gas cap. Once the vented gas cap is installed it completely bypasses the EVAP system.

I would also like to comment on a couple other things. Yes the owners manual says not to over fill because it will leak fuel. Doesn't everyone think this is a terrible design? Does fuel leak all over if you over fill your car? No, because it's designed so it won't. Genuine could've done the same thing. Even if you know better it's easy to overfill by accident.

So if someone accidentally overfill or doesn't know better what happens? The overflow is designed to run right on the exhaust. Come on people Genuine makes a great scooter but this is a huge design flaw. Overflow on the exhaust?? They could've ran a hose so it didn't do that.

In no way am I saying this is illegal. I have no idea if it is or not. I'm not sure why they would add the EVAP system if they didn't need to but maybe they was looking out for the environment. Oh wait that can't be because they want to install vented gas caps to correct this problem. Vented gas caps = pollution. Pollution = not good for environment.

sbebenelli wrote:. Vented gas caps pollute the air because it allows fumes to evaporate into the air. They would not but a evaporative system on the scooter plus a vented gas cap. Once the vented gas cap is installed it completely bypasses the EVAP system. So if someone accidentally overfill or doesn't know better what happens? The overflow is designed to run right on the exhaust.

Hi Sbebenelli, that was very interesting.

I have a 2008 Buddy 150 (getting it soon) and the cap was just swapped-out with a new one to prevent vapor-lock. I hope this new open-cap isn't going to cause me an asthma attack or give cancer!

While I understood the gist of what you were writing about, some of it went slightly over my head.

Is there a 'best-way' to fill the tank to avoid/prevent overflow? Eye-ball it, fill-up only one-gallon at a time, or another way?

Thanks,

PR

sbebenelli wrote:

ericalm wrote:As far as I know, the vented caps were supposed to ship with the scoots with the new vapor system, didn't due to an error, so new caps were sent out.

You cannot have a vented gas cap if you have a EVAP system. The two do not go together. I am a ASE master technician with over 20 years of experience.

I think I have discussed this before but for some reason you don't want to believe me...

It's not a matter of believing you. You say "cannot have." Does that mean that it negates the benefits of the EVAP system? Okay, that's one thing. Does it mean that it's illegal or in violation of EPA or other regs? That's another issue altogether. I'm not taking either side of this, but if someone wants to come onto a public forum and accuse a company of illegal activity, they should provide some documentation or citations to back it up.

ericalm wrote: It's not a matter of believing you. You say "cannot have." Does that mean that it negates the benefits of the EVAP system? Okay, that's one thing. Does it mean that it's illegal or in violation of EPA or other regs? That's another issue altogether. I'm not taking either side of this, but if someone wants to come onto a public forum and accuse a company of illegal activity, they should provide some documentation or citations to back it up.

I myself have never said it was illegal or in violation of EPA. I have just said putting a vented gas cap on will bypass the EVAP system. I have never accused Genuine of doing anything illegal.

I have leaned toward disappointment on how Genuine has handled it. If I buy something new I want all systems to work like it should a month after buying it.

sbebenelli wrote:

ericalm wrote: It's not a matter of believing you. You say "cannot have." Does that mean that it negates the benefits of the EVAP system? Okay, that's one thing. Does it mean that it's illegal or in violation of EPA or other regs? That's another issue altogether. I'm not taking either side of this, but if someone wants to come onto a public forum and accuse a company of illegal activity, they should provide some documentation or citations to back it up.

I myself have never said it was illegal or in violation of EPA. I have just said putting a vented gas cap on will bypass the EVAP system. I have never accused Genuine of doing anything illegal.

No, you didn't. 5bud7 did. Read the thread.

Portland_Rider wrote:Hi Kaos,

No idea what the factors involved here are from the size, design, and material differences: she has a 50cc and you have a 125cc. I believe that there may have been additional yet closely related damages between the gauge and some tube?

On all this mechanical-technical assessment, I am out of my league here.

On the vapor-lock issue, I was told that it has to do with plastic tanks being able to breathe while metal tanks do not breathe. I was under the previous understanding that the vapor-lock problem is for the 150s with the impression that the 150 tank is metal while the 125 is plastic.

Is the 125 tank metal or plastic?

PR

The 125 is SUPPOSED to be plastic. That being said, my 125 has experienced the vapor lock problem, and the vented cap fixed it. It APPEARS that my tank is metal from the quick glance I took at it, but I'm not 100% sure on that.

SO, I had a vapor lock issue a couple of weeks ago when I went on my Ghost Town ride. The following day I vented the gas cap. My dealer had never heard of the vapor lock issue previously. However, I went by there the day after I vented to cap and was talking about my ride. One of the mechanic guys asks "Do you have the update?" I said I didn't know, so he pulled the boot out, says "No, you don't."
He then proceeded to cut the hose with the charcoal canister in two. He sealed the distal end with a screw, then zip-tied the end going to the tank someplace else.
Has anyone else gotten the "update?"

FWIW, I went on a long, 90-100mile ride today and had no problems whatsoever.

Howard