Modern Buddy

I posted this in another discussion on Buddy 125/150 and rider weight but would like some feedback on just what this means to us in terms of safety.

The Vin Tag on my 2007 Buddy 125 lists the GVWR at 398 lbs.

Definition: GVWR = Gross Vehicle Weight Rating

That's how much weight the vehicle is designed to carry. The GVWR includes the net weight of the vehicle, plus the weight of passengers, fuel, cargo and any additional accessories. The GVWR is a safety standard used to prevent overloading.

The net weight of the Buddy was listed at 223 lbs in one of the road tests that I read last year. Assuming 15 lbs for fuel, oil, and accessories, no one over 160 lbs can safely ride the Buddy. 15 lbs is probably way low after adding racks, bars, bags, tools, ATGATT etc.

I can't believe Genuine would market a scooter that would be unsafe with an average weight rider aboard and the stated GVWR definitely doesn't allow for riding two up with adults.

Where is the GVWR label located? I have not seen this on my friends Buddy 125 nor the 150 I was looking at.. 160 lbs rider wow thats does not add up to very much for the average American....

This has to be a joke right??

Maybe Ntsha should look into this...

Jon

Now if all of that is correct ... I'm going to need a Buddy and a half to ride safely.

Rob

There was a guy at a rally I read about, he himself was around 270, and he had his friend on the back who was 300 pounds. 570 pounds worth of people on a 125cc bike cruising at 35mph.

Probably not good to hold at such rpm's for a long time, but it can be done.

It is not a question if it can be done, but done safely would be my concern.

That’s weird; never noticed that – Assuming those weights are correct, I’m may be exceeding the GVW whenever I ride.
Is it against the law to exceed the GVW??

Any current dealer have an opinion of this?

rajron wrote:That’s weird; never noticed that – Assuming those weights are correct, I’m may be exceeding the GVW whenever I ride.
Is it against the law to exceed the GVW??

As far as I know or can find there are no laws pertaining to exceeding the listed GVW. All laws that I can see regarding this have to do with things like restrictions for vehicles over 6000 pound not being allowed on city roadways to over 8000 not needing an Monroney Sticker or emmisions testing. If the numbers are correct then I need to lose 10 lbs to barely meet the max weight. Actualy it may be more than that due to the addition of the cowl protecters, rear rack, front rack, and top case.

scooterjon wrote:Where is the GVWR label located? I have not seen this on my friends Buddy 125 nor the 150 I was looking at..

it's listed on the metal plate that's mounted outside the glovebox. it's definitely there on my '08 buddy 125.

Doh, you totally got us. Everyone, stop riding your Buddies now. It's all over. Sell to the nearest sucker whose willing to actually pay money for such a blatant failure of a vehicle.

I'm gonna keep on riding. Scootering by it's very nature isn't exactly the safest past-time out there. Add it to the acceptable risks category and move on.

I don't know about how accurate that rating is. But then again, maybe I'm not so bright in the first place. Time will tell, I suppose. I always thought of it as the safe weight that's added to the chassis. I'm gonna stick with that thought, as it's served me well so far. I'll let you all know right away if that turns out to be a bad idea.

Bonus pondering... I wonder how much a Rocketta is rated for...

I'd noticed the weight issue as well. Looking at the load ratings for several 2-up capable scooters I realized that second rider would have to be an infant [with a clean diaper] to stay within the rated weight

When it comes down to practicality as long as you allow whatever extra distance you need for breaking due to a second rider or cargo all should be well. We've all seen pics/ video of people in Asia riding around on their ancient mopeds carrying enough stuff to fill the bed of a small pickup... and they keep putting right along.

The weight restriction I'd actually attention to is the one on your tires. For those wee sized 10" scooter tires I've seen the load rating as low as 280- 300lb [per tire] for vintage styles like you'd put on a Buddy or Stella. The scoot plus two well fed westerners would be pushing that to the edge. I've also seen the same size tire in a more modern "sporty" design with a 500lb rating.

Nice one Spin Genuine does advertise 2 UP on their website and brochure.... SO then the answer is ride it until it breaks or rode it like you stole it. SDG (Vespa/Genuine of Thousand Oaks??) I thought you were a dealer shouldn't you know? What does the manufacture certificate or orgin say compared to the NHSTA and FED label?? If you answer the question I will buy a Vespa GTS 300 Super from you and maybe a Buddy for the wife.



Jon

scooterjon wrote: Nice one Spin Genuine does advertise 2 UP on their website and brochure.... SO then the answer is ride it until it breaks or rode it like you stole it. SDG (Vespa/Genuine of Thousand Oaks??) I thought you were a dealer shouldn't you know? What does the manufacture certificate or orgin say compared to the NHSTA and FED label?? If you answer the question I will buy a Vespa GTS 300 Super from you and maybe a Buddy for the wife.



Jon

Jon,

I don't have scooters yet so I am unsure. I will get clarification this week from Genuine as I am just wrapping up my final State documents to become officially licensed to sell the product. I am sure a current dealer will chime in on their take on this.

Cheers,
SDG

Thanks for the input SDG of VTO... I still want to buy a GTS 300 from you.



Jon

Did Alix ever figure out or post the weight of all her gear plus her on her long rides? Has anyone else - Bonegirl, or Rob? I'd be a lot more interested in actual experience data than what is posted on the scooter.

I rode two-up for about 50 miles total, with 14 apples, a pie, a half gallon of cider, and a Kryptonite lock yesterday. I am happy to report that my Buddy did not collapse, crumble, or snap in two at any point during my ride.

I am a strapping 200 pounds of pure muscle & Pabst Blue Ribbon. I have never felt unsafe riding my Buddy by myself or 2 up. I am not the least bit concerned with it.

Dave

ScooterDave wrote:I am a strapping 200 pounds of pure muscle & Pabst Blue Ribbon.
Dave

What about all the hot air?

LisaLisa wrote:What about all the hot air?

Ahhhhh... hot air is actually good since it'll cancel out some weight

yaah that's what I'm counting on.

All scooters have a super low rating.

Get over it.

I think the rider weight limit for my elite is like 200lbs.

I weigh 270.

5000+ miles later we're still fine like wine.

Spinergy wrote:

LisaLisa wrote:What about all the hot air?

Ahhhhh... hot air is actually good since it'll cancel out some weight

I had alot of hot air from the burrito I ate for lunch but, it is pretty much gone now.

ScooterDave wrote: I had alot of hot air from the burrito I ate for lunch but, it is pretty much gone now.

That's another reason why I can't keep up with my husband's people 250.

Eazy
All scooters have a super low rating.

Get over it.

I think the rider weight limit for my elite is like 200lbs.

I weigh 270.

5000+ miles later we're still fine like wine.

Maybe you should look at other brands as the Vespa GTS is rated at 449 lbs. The LX is rated at 440lbs and the Kymco people is at 400 lbs. Nothing to get over just stating some facts that had me wondering how the frame would hold up in the long run. Regardless this maybe a scooter for the wife and not me. Still like the looks of the Buddy.. they need to make it bigger. Just my 2 cents.

Jon

scooterjon wrote:

Eazy
All scooters have a super low rating.

Get over it.

I think the rider weight limit for my elite is like 200lbs.

I weigh 270.

5000+ miles later we're still fine like wine.

Maybe you should look at other brands as the Vespa GTS is rated at 449 lbs. The LX is rated at 440lbs and the Kymco people is at 400 lbs. Nothing to get over just stating some facts that had me wondering how the frame would hold up in the long run. Regardless this maybe a scooter for the wife and not me. Still like the looks of the Buddy.. they need to make it bigger. Just my 2 cents.

Jon

Actually to clarify..........

GVWR on 09 LX150 is 670 lbs

GVWR on 09 GTS is 775 lbs

Just saying..........

SDG

Wonder how this thread slipped by me…
I'd seen someone quoting that GVW elsewhere and couldn't find the figure in any Buddy specs I have. Didn't go look at the the scooter.

There are a lot of numbers associated with the Buddy which seem totally out of whack (for instance, PGO's recommended oil change intervals).

I think the 398lbs GVW was either incorrectly calculated or the wrong number was provided.

The Vespa LX weighs almost exactly the same as a Buddy 125 but has a GVW of 670lbs vs. the Buddy's 398lbs. The difference of 272 lbs. may be the estimated "wet" weight of the Buddy (which weighs 223 dry). The '06 Buddy brochure from Genuine lists the weight capacity (rider, passenger, cargo, fluids) as 340lbs. That would make the GVW 563lbs. (Still much less than the LX.)

I'm a big guy 300lb and the people at the dealer I bought my buddy from told me it could carry 500lb.

Eric,

The federal sticker on the 07-09 Buddy 125 and 150 mentions the GVWR as 398 pounds take away the vehicle weight (223) nd you are left with 175 lbs of rider weight safely allowed on the vehicle maybe this is why the Buddy is so twitchy at high speeds. This spec you just showed came from a sales brochure not a federal sticker placed on the scooter.. So this out of whack number has gone un noticed for how long with no corrections made? hmmmm


Jon

soon to be buddy owner??

my bud is not twitchy at high speeds at all. i once hit 70 without even realizing for a minute or two. not a twitch in the house.

I actually blew a scooter engine (1965 Vespa 150) by carrying too much weight (at least 550 lbs). But that's the only time I've ever seen it done.

Just about any scooter I can find specs for has a GVWR roughly double of the dry weight. I'm betting the numbers are wrong on the plate, and the numbers eric posted are correct.

That said, Asians and Europeans are much skinnier than we are, and the bikes are designed for them, not us. Americans need to lose some weight, and if you weigh 250+ like I do, you shouldn't be carrying a passenger on a 125cc scooter. My fat butt barely fits on a Buddy seat, that's a good sign that someone else shouldn't be on there with me.

Bb.

My g/f and I double on the 50cc fairly often for the short trips into town (about 6km or 4 mi). A little trickier at slow speeds, but overall ride doesn't suffer too much. Total weight of passengers is about 320lb - any more and an aftermarket spring with a pre-load would be needed to keep the bumps smooth. I would hesitate to do 2-up on any scoot without a front disc brake though - not nearly enough stopping power.

betsy q. bramble wrote:my bud is not twitchy at high speeds at all. i once hit 70 without even realizing for a minute or two. not a twitch in the house.

Yeah, I gotta agree. I do 75-80 nearly every time I ride it. No twitch at all....

scooterjon wrote:The federal sticker on the 07-09 Buddy 125 and 150 mentions the GVWR as 398 pounds take away the vehicle weight (223) nd you are left with 175 lbs of rider weight safely allowed on the vehicle maybe this is why the Buddy is so twitchy at high speeds. This spec you just showed came from a sales brochure not a federal sticker placed on the scooter.. So this out of whack number has gone un noticed for how long with no corrections made? hmmmm

I'm well aware of all of these things, which have been stated in the previous posts. All I was doing was saying that the number is probably wrong, for whatever reason, and that Genuine has provided contradictory numbers that are much more likely to be correct given the GVW of comparable scooters.

ericalm wrote:I think the 398lbs GVW was either incorrectly calculated or the wrong number was provided.

I'm not disputing that it's on the sticker; I'm disputing its accuracy.

As for why it hasn't been corrected, I don't know. I don't work for Genuine and they don't tell me everything.

It doesn't really matter unless you have an accident and the insurance company uses it as a reason not to pay up.

scooterjon wrote: maybe this is why the Buddy is so twitchy at high speeds.

What? I rode mine from Cleveland to San Francisco at full throttle most of the way. There is nothing "twitchy" about it. My daughter's Honda Spree could be called that, but not the Buddy.

I notice you don't own one yet. How do you feel qualified to make such a statement? Based on what? A quick test ride? I have taken test rides on bikes that were literally falling apart from the abuse of new riders and lack of maintenance. Harley's traveling demo fleet for example.

If I skip lunch today I can still fit under the weight limit! Thanks Eric for bringing some sanity back to the discussion. Obviously they forgot to add the weight of the scooter in those numbers.

olhogrider wrote:I rode mine from Cleveland to San Francisco at full throttle most of the way.

olhogrider, you were already my hero on modernbuddy! And now I read this!?!?

That's nothing, Rob rode his 125 from San Francisco to Maryland! At least I had a 150

Kaos wrote:

betsy q. bramble wrote:my bud is not twitchy at high speeds at all. i once hit 70 without even realizing for a minute or two. not a twitch in the house.

Yeah, I gotta agree. I do 75-80 nearly every time I ride it. No twitch at all....

I think this comes down to how we each might consider as "twitchy" and what we're comparing it to. I think it's twitchy in the sense that it's very sensitive and highly reactive to rider input. It's a somewhat jerkier, less smooth ride than my Vespa. I go into a little more detail about this in this old thread.

It's not excessively shaky and doesn't yank you all over the road or anything like that.

I have put close to 3000 BDU through lots of Chicago potholes and various other road issues. my 245 lbs, mostly full gear, often a work bag and often a bunch of groceries, including milk gallons and a few 6 packs .

no problems I have ever seen.

Question: is it naive to believe that PGO translated GVWR from kilos to lbs correctly when they can't do it for kilometers to miles on our odometers?

A GVWR of 398 kilos would be 877 lbs
877 lbs less the Buddy dry weight of 233 = 654 lbs carrying capacity

which seems too high. But like the BDU's on our odometers, PGO's GVWR may be in mystery units.

-Mark

Eric

Thank you for the comparison trhead I have read it before and this was almost a deciding factor for me on going with a buddy or Vespa.I have ridden Motorcycles and comparing some scooters to motorcycles is like comparing apples to oranges. For me a lot of the information on the Buddy seems vague and not correct. The GVWR is a great example and a misprint? that has gone on way to long and under the radar. I mean how long does it take Genuine to fix this mistake?? I have seen 2006 models with the same GVWR rating. Also I had seen a Buddy 150 today and the sticker gives KG (kilograms) not kilo's. Well I am holding out for now on buying a buddy as I have had my eye on the Black Jack. We will see.

Jon