Genuine tells public early about new bikes

[rickko]

I figured there would be more interest in the BlackJack than the Eco....

The only interest in th ECO seems to be 'how' and 'why.' To me, it seems comparable to riding a skateboard vs. riding on a single skate. (ie. a downgrade).

If there is a degradation in power, I don't think it would be worth substituting power for a 10-20% increase in mileage. How much would you save per fillup? 30-40 cents?

The only justification IMO buying an ECO over the standard Buddy 125 would be if it sold for less than a 125. If its priced the same or higher then my guess is, its a marketing gimmick. In that case I'd go for (assuming I was in the market) the better performance of the standard 125 (that assumes iit out-performs the ECO of course).

..rickko..

[ericalm]

I figured there would be more intrests in the BlackJack that the Eco. Most people always talk about more power more power as far as scooters go and Just thought that people would really like the BlackJack. HMMMMM I dont mean to offend just an opinion.

Specs aside, I think the Eco is mostly a way to attract and to market a Genuine product to non-traditional scooter buyers. This has been described as the "NPR scoot." I think it's intended for those concerned about green issues who may not have considered a 100+ MPG 2-wheeler for short distance driving—errands, short commutes, etc. These are not buyers who are particularly focused on specs. Any way you slice it, the Eco is less environmentally detrimental and much more economical than most cars. It's also the sort of thing a lot of people in places like LA will buy just to have and show their friends so they can brag about the MPGs. (Sad, but true. This also drives a lot of local Vespa sales.)

Is it a big green leap from a stock Buddy 125? Probably more of a small hop forward. But if no one's being deceitful about its capabilities and specs and it manages to attract buyers, who cares?

Genuine is rather smartly looking at the scooter market and where it's headed and thinking about what kind of products will sell and what untapped niches are out there. Both the BlackJack and the Eco are moves towards staking a claim in different markets and demos.

I figured there would be more interest in the BlackJack than the Eco....

The only interest in th ECO seems to be 'how' and 'why.' To me, it seems comparable to riding a skateboard vs. riding on a single skate. (ie. a downgrade).

That's looking at it from a scooterist/enthusiast perspective, but the point is to broaden appeal beyond that.

Genuine has already proven it can sell scooters to non-traditional scooter people (i.e., people who weren't looking to buy a Vespa, who had never previously owned a scooter, motorcyclists and powersports enthusiasts, more casual and impulse buyers) and make them into enthusiasts. We've seen that on this site from day 1. It'll be interesting to see how more precisely targeted products perform.

[sunshinen]

Just because all you care about is speed and power, doesn't mean that that's what the new scooter market cares about. Just look at all the 50cc's out there!

I think Eric is right. Everyone that I talk to, pretty much all they want to know is the mpg. But then, no one I know is a traditional scooter enthusiast. Many of us newer enthusiasts are looking for ways to be more environmentally friendly; to take the slower, less traveled roads; and to have a bit of fun while doing it.

And to say that just because it's not going to save a lot more on money on gas will make it unappealing is missing the "eco" mindset all together. Many people spend more for eco-friendly products just because they care about the impact they have on the environment.

A 125 that gets better mpg and enough speed to be more practical than a 50cc will likely be appealing to many potential riders. I got rid of my car, and frankly, the 125 still has more power than I need 98% of the time. And the other 2% is when I'm on a road a small scooter doesn't really belong on in the first place. Do I love the Buddy's power? Yes. Would I be willing to compromise some for even a baby step in a more eco-friendly direction? Yes (as long as the compromise is a fair trade. ). But we don't even know if there will be a noticeable compromise on power, so why not stop slagging on it till we find out?

[babblefish]

I personally like motorcycles for their power and handling, but sold my sport bike and bought the biggest engined sport scooter I could find because it is easier to get around on in the city. The gas mileage is just a secondary bonus for me and I'd trade it for more power in a heart beat.

[rickko]

...Many people spend more for eco-friendly products just because they care about the impact they have on the environment.

Until regulations, definitions and standards of what "ECO friendly" means most consumers are going to get ripped off! Case in point. A non-profit group working on setting up regulations and certifications for mfgs. recently tested nearly every single cleaning agent product on the market that either called their product eco-friendly, or Green or applied some phoney green seal or what have you in order to entice sales found that EVERY ONE was NOT except for one!
At this point I wouldn't trust any ECO advertising unless it was accompanied by this seal:

... I got rid of my car...,

With all due respect, that's the biggest farce of all! Unless you drove your car to the junk yard and watched it get destroyed so it'll never be on the road to pollute and use gas and tires and all you didn't do a damn thing to improve the environment! You actually perpetuated the harm your car was causing. And by making PGO use natural resources, create more plastics, manufacture under lax pollution controls, etc. to build yet another vehicle to put on the road has gained nothing!

If anyone is going to say, they got rid of their car for a scooter to "become more green" and "do my part," they're fooling you. That car has to get recycled and destroyed, not handed onto another driver who probably use it MORE than you did.

Sorry, I'm not buying this ECO stuff unless it's done right. If you think, after watching the Wall Street meltdown, that companies are being truthful and honest with consumers, you are sadly mistaken. If stamping a fake Green sticker on their product or changing it packaging to add some green color will net them more profit for their shareholders, you can bet they'll do it!

Oh, don't forget all our imported products that are even LESS unregulated. Heck, we can't even be sure if they're safe let alone being Green.

JMO,
..rickko..

[betsy q. bramble]

no but seriously rikko....how do you really feel?

[ericalm]

If anyone is going to say, they got rid of their car for a scooter to "become more green" and "do my part," they're fooling you. That car has to get recycled and destroyed, not handed onto another driver who probably use it MORE than you did.

It's amazing you have room for all those chips you carry around on your shoulders.

suninshen didn't actually say he got rid of his car for environmental reasons, but even if he had, your argument doesn't add up.

Whoever purchased the car would have bought something and driven it just as much as they drive the one they got from suninshen. Without making assumptions about how much anyone is driving, if they buy another car and suninshen keeps his car, that's 2 cars, no scooter on the road. He sold them his and got a scooter; that's one car, one scooter on the road.

Speaking of assumptions, for all you know the buyers were trashing an old car and buying a newer, more fuel-efficient one.

You're awfully quick to criticize and point fingers when you don't have all the information in front of you. Please try to tone down the rants a bit.

[rickko]

..., your argument doesn't add up.

First off, you mis-read my comments if you think I was arguing. I was suggesting when someone sells a car to buy a scooter without insuring that a less green vehicle is forever removed from the road because of your scooter purchase, you aren't being "green" at all. Instead, you are just a normal consumer buying more while passing on your stuff to someone else to perpetuate what you may have been doing with it.

Whoever purchased the car would have bought something ...

Really?

That's a leaping assumption right off the bat! Aren't you doing exactly what you think I'm doing, making an assumption then basing your argument on it?

..., if they buy another car .... [oops, you just made an assumption that they will buy another car]... and suninshen keeps his car, that's 2 cars , no scooter on the road.

So here you are assuming they buy a NEW car which most likely requires more natural resources and energy to build than a scooter!

... He sold them his and got a scooter; that's one car, one scooter on the road.

But if he kept his car and the buyer didn't buy a new car, that would be, 1 car NO scooter on the road. Better than 2 cars, no scooter example.

Speaking of assumptions, for all you know the buyers were trashing an old car and buying a newer, more fuel-efficient one.

Yep. I considered that but discounted it because the odds of that happening are pretty, pretty slim. In fact with all the charities around wanting rejected autos (to get back on the road) many people will donate their old vehicles for the tax benefit before they junk them.

You're awfully quick to criticize and point fingers when you don't have all the information in front of you.

As are you to criticize me without any more information than I have.

I'm glad you get involved in these topics, especially when without any more information than I have, you mimic me from an equally relevant hypothetical point of view. What is sad, is when you interpret my comments as "rants" yet your counter comments are no different.

Cheers!
..rickko..
PS. I'm learning from your writing that telling another member of this forum they have "chips on their shoulders" is not considered a personal attack but allowable by the Guidelines.

[ericalm]

I'm glad you get involved in these topics, especially when without any more information than I have, you mimic me from an equally relevant hypothetical point of view. What is sad, is when you interpret my comments as "rants" yet your counter comments are no different.

Cheers!
..rickko..
PS. I'm learning from your writing that telling another member of this forum they have "chips on their shoulders" is not considered a personal attack but allowable by the Guidelines.

OKay, I'm not going to subject members to further tedium by continuing to argue with you about any of this. And if we hadn't been around this bend a number of times already, I'd be more than happy to move the discussion to PMs and tell you why I think you're frequently full of hooey and what I consider a rant. But I'm pretty tired of it and your frequent negativity and I certainly don't have an obligation to justify anything I do here or the way I choose to run the forum.

I will (more for the sake of other members) admit that I should know better than to engage but that there's something about your attitude and reasoning that irks me. I do my best to be even-handed, patient and fair but even I have my buttons, and dude, you're pushing them.

So I'll leave it at this: chill out and dial down the attitude. Figure out what I mean by "rant." Curb the criticism of other members and negativity. And remember who runs this place and that you're by no means indispensable. Realize that as far as I'm concerned, I've been indulgent so far but that has its limits. If you're unable, I suggest you pack it up and take it to another Genuine forum.

[Cheshire]

what the...?? Genuine took my eyecandy away!! (Thanks jfrost2 for posting the pic in the OP.)

Anyone got any guesses as to when we'll be learning more about the EcoBuddy and the BlackJack? Thoughts on the christmas financing special that replaced my eyecandy?

[rickko]

Anyone got any guesses as to when we'll be learning more about the EcoBuddy and the BlackJack?

My inside sources mutter words that imply, "Not before 2009."

..rickko..

[sunshinen]

For the record, I'm a she.

With all due respect, that's the biggest farce of all!

Yeah, sorry, I don't actually see any respect in your writing. Like, Eric, I see ranting. When you repeat the same lines about no standards 8 times... that's a ranting argument. We heard you the first time, and the second, and the third... We just don't agree or feel it's relevant to the scooter discussion (edited to add: because there are mpg and emissions ratings). Let it go.

Unless you drove your car to the junk yard and watched it get destroyed so it'll never be on the road to pollute and use gas and tires and all you didn't do a damn thing to improve the environment!

Is this where you weren't arguing?? 'cause exclamation points and cursing seems pretty argumentative to me. Sorry, watching an existing vehicle that gets 38mpg and contains plenty of viable resources get destroyed, IMHO, is not eco-friendly. For me, the eco-idea is to reduce, reuse, recycle... not destroy and incinerate.

And Eric is right, you are making a shit ton of assumptions... Yes, I know the person who got my car. Yes, it was taking a much, much older SUV off the road. She needed to replace a dying vehicle that got 10mpg, and mine got 38mpg. The difference in mpg and emissions adds up quickly because she lives in the country and drives an hour (one way) just to get into town. (Even if we'd just swapped vehicles, it would've been better for the environment.) She needed a new vehicle, one that can carry elderly passengers, and IMHO getting my car (which had good mpg to begin with and was sitting in a parking space rotting, and thus wasting good tires and batteries) on the road in place of a decades-old dying polluter (rather than replacing it with another new vehicle that uses new resources) is an eco-friendly move just about any way you slice it.

But Eric is also right that I wasn't claiming I got rid of my car for eco-friendly reasons. So again, you at least come across as arguing for the sake of arguing. My initial point was that even without a larger vehicle to support me, the Buddy 125 has more than enough power to meet my needs. I'm just saying there IS a viable market for the EcoBuddy.

We don't ALL need more "power" to compensate for what we lack elsewhere. (Clearly, all men who ride scooters have big penises. But those who go for the EcoBuddy... )

[jfrost2]

I think Genuine is pulling the image maybe cause I posted it. Must be my fault again they're trying to hide stuff. I think they realize by now i am constantly watching them everywhere.

[jmazza]

(Clearly, all men who ride scooters have big penises. But those who go for the EcoBuddy... )

...wear hemp underwear to contain them?

[eldoroddo]

I tuck it into my sock.

[rickko]

I think Genuine is pulling the image maybe cause I posted it. Must be my fault again they're trying to hide stuff. I think they realize by now i am constantly watching them everywhere.

Here it is, still on their server:



..rickko..

[jfrost2]

It's still in my original post. no reason for them to delete the file off the server, all they did was replace the image with a advertisement for 4.9 interest rates for new bike sales at dealers during Christmas.

[BuddyLicious]

...Many people spend more for eco-friendly products just because they care about the impact they have on the environment.

Until regulations, definitions and standards of what "ECO friendly" means most consumers are going to get ripped off! Case in point. A non-profit group working on setting up regulations and certifications for mfgs. recently tested nearly every single cleaning agent product on the market that either called their product eco-friendly, or Green or applied some phoney green seal or what have you in order to entice sales found that EVERY ONE was NOT except for one!
At this point I wouldn't trust any ECO advertising unless it was accompanied by this seal:

... I got rid of my car...,

With all due respect, that's the biggest farce of all! Unless you drove your car to the junk yard and watched it get destroyed so it'll never be on the road to pollute and use gas and tires and all you didn't do a damn thing to improve the environment! You actually perpetuated the harm your car was causing. And by making PGO use natural resources, create more plastics, manufacture under lax pollution controls, etc. to build yet another vehicle to put on the road has gained nothing!

If anyone is going to say, they got rid of their car for a scooter to "become more green" and "do my part," they're fooling you. That car has to get recycled and destroyed, not handed onto another driver who probably use it MORE than you did.

Sorry, I'm not buying this ECO stuff unless it's done right. If you think, after watching the Wall Street meltdown, that companies are being truthful and honest with consumers, you are sadly mistaken. If stamping a fake Green sticker on their product or changing it packaging to add some green color will net them more profit for their shareholders, you can bet they'll do it!

Oh, don't forget all our imported products that are even LESS unregulated. Heck, we can't even be sure if they're safe let alone being Green.

JMO,
..rickko..

Rickko speaks the truth.It may hurt but it's true.We are the worst animal species to ever inhabit this earth.Yes we ALL are guilty.Should you ever want to get a glimpse into us,watch the movie here.(click on the eye)

http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

Looking at ourselves may possibly be the hardest thing we ever have to face.

[ericalm]

For the record, I'm a she.

Ack! I actually did know that but wasn't making the connection when I wrote my previous post. Apologies!

(A lot of people used to think I was "Erica LM." Teh Interwebs is funny.)

[ericalm]

I think Genuine is pulling the image maybe cause I posted it. Must be my fault again they're trying to hide stuff. I think they realize by now i am constantly watching them everywhere.

Nah, the image is out there and the Blackjack and Eco have been written about in many places. They are definitely not trying to contain these 2 scooters at this point. They've both been added to the rotating "Sneak Peek" images.

[KRUSTYburger]

What's the "eco" deal? My buddy already gets over 100 mpg... I guess a couple more wouldn't hurt, but I thought they were already in the eco-friendly market. I mean, they ARE a scooter. I think there are a lot of folks that would go for a suped-up 150 that looks cool and has a more manly name than Buddy.

Its smart for Genuine to play the customization card since who doesn't like making things their own? I know I do (excessively). They should have templates for the panels where you can get custom decals made with your own photos/art or whatever. Whatever they decide to do, they gotta figure out a way to get parts & accessories out to people in a more timely manner. I think customers really care about part support and it doesn't seem like they're focusing on that right now...

[ericalm]

What's the "eco" deal? My buddy already gets over 100 mpg... I guess a couple more wouldn't hurt, but I thought they were already in the eco-friendly market. I mean, they ARE a scooter. I think there are a lot of folks that would go for a suped-up 150 that looks cool and has a more manly name than Buddy.

Well, I think it's all about selling scooters to new markets and demos. Even the Blackjack is in that vein.

Its smart for Genuine to play the customization card since who doesn't like making things their own? I know I do (excessively). They should have templates for the panels where you can get custom decals made with your own photos/art or whatever.

I've had some similar ideas. This (and something similar) is on my list of things to discuss with someone there the next time I talk to them.

Whatever they decide to do, they gotta figure out a way to get parts & accessories out to people in a more timely manner. I think customers really care about part support and it doesn't seem like they're focusing on that right now...

I wrote about the parts problems (again) at some length here. So far, Genuine is only introducing 2 new models this year, both Buddy variations. I don't think this detracts from efforts to improve the parts supply. It probably makes it easier than if they were introducing several new models.

I'm not taking the role of apologist here or defending the company when it comes to these problems. They exist, it's a big deal and it needs to be dealt with. I also don't expect it to be fixed soon, but I do expect it to improve over the next few months.

[illnoise]

My interpretation (which could be wrong) is that the Eco is fuel-injected, so you'll get modestly better economy with similar/equal performance, and MUCH higher reliability. Wait until spring when all the "my buddy's not idling right" posts start popping up, clogged carburetors on rarely-ridden or laid-up scooters are probably the #1 mechanical problem with scooters worldwide. Fuel injection pretty much erases that problem. I would gladly pay a couple hundred extra bucks for fuel injection on any scooter, it makes them so much more worry-free.

I agree the "Eco" angle is iffy, especially based on the cost-per mile difference involved, and that "Save the world by buying stuff" ideal is sort of a joke, but there are people that eat that stuff up*, and now they have a scooter. Informed scooterists will love the EFI (if that's the case) and it'll give genuine a chance to test it out before they introduce it in the full line. Everyone wins.

(*I'm all for ecology and green-ness in general, just not for the misguided commercialization of it)

[ericalm]

Would anyone take issue if Genuine was marketing the non-Eco Buddys as being an environmentally-friendly form of transportation?

(That's a serious, not rhetorical question.)

I'm just curious if the issue is with the "green" or "eco" label or with the company saying the scooter is somehow environmentally friendly? Or is it just that it's not sufficiently more environmental than the existing Buddys?

[Lostmycage]

Looks like I'm gonna have to reshape the seat to the Buddy if I'm gonna keep it. 2-up riding is pretty much out for this household, at least till spring. An improved seat contour could really make a difference. I like the look of the Blackjack a lot, but it could use some tweaking...

Genuine should hire me to do their design and thinking. Wait, that'd be no good... there'd be scooters tearing up the road like they were 1200cc monsters! Wait.... maybe they should... nah!

[jmazza]

I'm just curious if the issue is with the "green" or "eco" label or with the company saying the scooter is somehow environmentally friendly? Or is it just that it's not sufficiently more environmental than the existing Buddys?

It's more curious to me why they don't just market the current Buddys as 'green' (which they do to an extent), but again we don't know any specs at this point (and yet we have a pretty long thread about it!). Without knowing the specs it's hard to see why the Eco Buddy will be that much more green than the current lineup.

But here's the thing...

While I do think they could justify marketing the current Buddy line as 'eco' (quotes very intentional)... I'll be the first to admit that even though I do like the fact that my scooter is generally better for the environment than a SUV or most any car, it's probably more of a selfish thing than a save the world thing. I love the fun of it, I love the mpg's because it's cheaper FOR ME to operate. Oh, it has a smaller carbon footprint? Cool. So I'm happy about the 'eco-ness' of scooters, I readily admit it's a side benefit to me. One that I probably claim is more of a primary reason for me riding one than it truly is.

I bet I'm not exactly the exception in that, so either way, marketing an 'eco buddy' is not a bad idea, even though there will likely be holes that can be shot through the concept (as has been pointed out here). So whether it makes me say "huh?" a little bit or not, I think it's a good idea. And illnoise brings up a great point about testing the EFI, etc.

Not sure I really answered your question, Eric... but those are my thoughts on it!

[babblefish]

Seems to me that the only *really* green or eco way of transportation is walking in bare feet since even the manufacture of shoes (unless hand woven from grass) is a hit on the environment.

[rickko]

My expectation of something 'green' or 'eco' encompasses the product from creation, through its use and finally its destruction.

To me, a vehicle that gets 40mpg or 110mpg is only one consideration of its green-ness. What is most important (when you are producing thousands of units) is, how much (and type) energy was used and how much pollution was generated in its production, how much of it is made of recycle-able or renewal materials, and how much natural.

Example: A paper grocery bag is greener than a plastic bag from a recycling point of view but less green from use of natural resources view, and even less green from an energy and pollution point. So, it can be marketed as a green product, or not! That's why the consumer should be careful about how easily the word green and eco are used on or about products today.

..rickko..

[oryx]

hi, i'm new here.... have been looking at getting a scooter and i really like the blackjack.

how does genuine do the new model year? Do they come out before year's end or will it be after the start of the new year that I will be able to get more info on pricing and such?

[pcbikedude]

hi, i'm new here.... have been looking at getting a scooter and i really like the blackjack.

how does genuine do the new model year? Do they come out before year's end or will it be after the start of the new year that I will be able to get more info on pricing and such?

Currently the Blackjack is not on any dealers' showroom floor. Pricing has not been determined on that model. It is suppose to have several performance goodies that are not on any current Buddy.

[jfrost2]

MSRP is much much higher because of the parts they put on. No official list yet, but many of us know what is in there, or most of the parts on the bike.

Genuine has 2009 bikes at some dealers now, but the blackjack and eco buddy may come after the new year, early spring, or even late 2009 to when "2010" bikes start showing up. No one knows.

I know some dealers do have the ecobuddy though, not for sale, but as a secret they are hiding.

[rickko]

... i really like the blackjack. ...

I'm surprised no one has used those tease photos to create a Blackjack logo avatar yet.

..rickko..

[betsy q. bramble]

Currently the Blackjack is not on any dealers' showroom floor. Pricing has not been determined on that model. It is suppose to have several performance goodies that are not on any current Buddy.

wrong - pricing has been determined to be $3499 MSRP

[jmazza]

how does genuine do the new model year?

It seems a bit random... it's not like cars where they show up in Q3 of the previous year. Like others have said... these new ones might not show up until Spring of '09.

Except for the paint job, you could make your own blackjack- I think all of the extra performance parts are available aftermarket. Find a nice used bike to start with and your price would be about the same.

[ericalm]

The BlackJacks are expected to begin arriving around Feb. or March, which is when new models have arrived in the past.

[betsy q. bramble]

MSRP is much much higher because of the parts they put on. No official list yet, but many of us know what is in there, or most of the parts on the bike.

I would hardly say it is "much much higher" considering the cost of doing all the add-ons yourself to a stock 150 buddy. For the sake of consistency I will use Scooterworks listed prices:

NCY front forks: $249
NCY performance shock: $179.99
Prima pipe: $179

total: $607.99

Given that the MSRP of the Blackjack is $3499 and the MSRP of a stock Buddy 150 is $3199 (the web says $3099 but I believe they went up 100 and didn't adjust their site for it), you are getting a hell of a deal for a $300 price difference. So all the talk of 'do it yourself for the same price' is pretty incorrect unless you follow a Scooterworks truck and wait for some things to "fall off the back".

[SDG]

Seat is designed for 1 rider, sportier look than stock. Footpegs are painted flat black. I've seen them myself.

This is in the same progression as Vespa launching the Vespa S with the one-up seat. Is this coincidence or fashion following?

SDG

[betsy q. bramble]

oh right because one passenger seats were just invented in 2007

[SDG]

oh right because one passenger seats were just invented in 2007

2008. Lol. I was just kidding, come on now................

SDG

[betsy q. bramble]

oh right because one passenger seats were just invented in 2007

2008. Lol. I was just kidding, come on now................

SDG

Me, too...me, too...gosh darn internets killing my lighthearted tone

[SDG]

oh right because one passenger seats were just invented in 2007

2008. Lol. I was just kidding, come on now................

SDG

Me, too...me, too...gosh darn internets killing my lighthearted tone

I have NEVER met a Betsy that I didn't like.

SDG

[sunshinen]

Would anyone take issue if Genuine was marketing the non-Eco Buddys as being an environmentally-friendly form of transportation?

(That's a serious, not rhetorical question.)

I'm just curious if the issue is with the "green" or "eco" label or with the company saying the scooter is somehow environmentally friendly? Or is it just that it's not sufficiently more environmental than the existing Buddys?

Good question.

It seems like the argument is that a regular Buddy is okay to buy, but an EcoBuddy is bad simply because it's labeled "eco" without being 100% sustainable, recyclable, etc.

If you want to be completely literal, obviously almost nothing we make/buy is truly 100% eco-friendly. It's all shades of bad.

...So I'm okay with advertising better options as better options... even if they are far from the (non-existent) ideal.

[Tocsik]

What is a ballpark figure to add the mods to make my Pamplona similar to the BlackJack?

I am drooling over the BlackJack!

[babblefish]

What is a ballpark figure to add the mods to make my Pamplona similar to the BlackJack?

I am drooling over the BlackJack!

Look 8 posts up for your answer...

[Tocsik]

What is a ballpark figure to add the mods to make my Pamplona similar to the BlackJack?

I am drooling over the BlackJack!

Look 8 posts up for your answer...

There were so many posts, I didn't read them all. Thanks.

[oryx]

i'm going to the local dealer to test-drive a scoot for the first time and hopefully go ahead and get an order lined up for the blackjack for when it's finally available!

if i get any new info on the blackjack, i'll let you know....

[Kaos]

I dunno if I'm OK with this Blackjack thing.... I worked hard to get all my mods on my Buddy, and now you can just walk into a show room and buy a bike thats got the same mods as mine AND a cooler paint job?

What does that leave me? Am I going to have to turbo my Buddy to stand out from the crowd?

[jfrost2]

Just remember, when all the boys and girls are rolling on their blackjack's which are all 100% the same, you'll have a bike similar in parts, but unique in it's color. Plus you can brag, you built part of the bike since you did this and that mod/s.

[goatlover]

The BlackJacks are expected to begin arriving around Feb. or March, which is when new models have arrived in the past.

this is correct and confirmed.

[ericalm]

The BlackJacks are expected to begin arriving around Feb. or March, which is when new models have arrived in the past.

this is correct and confirmed.

One member recently told me their dealer was expecting them in January.