Genuine tells public early about new bikes

[marsturm]

I'm disappointed in the 2009 Buddy offerings. Genuine appears to have taken the Harley Davidson route i.e., change the paint scheme and add some after-market items and call it a new model.
I may end up replacing my current scoot with another brand when I upgrade. I want 200-250cc, 4 valves, and FI!

[jfrost2]

Nothing to really be depressed about. True they are the same bike/model/body, but in essence, what was the internationals? Upgraded, repainted, bikes, they are different from the 125's, even though based off the same engine and frame.

[rtaite]

illnoise,

The reason fuel injection leads to longer engine life and longer oil changes, as a rule, is that carburettors are an imprecise method for metering fuel and air into a cylinder.

At startup, in a carburetted engine, gas and air are often just dumped barely mixed into the cylinder to get a cold engine started. The gasoline will mix with the thin film of oil on the cylinder walls. This reduces the effectiveness of the oil film to protect the cylinder walls and it accelerates the contamination of the oil leading to earlier oil changes. In a fuel injected engine, the engine also runs rich at startup, but the fuel metering is more precise. It is finely misted spray of gas and air instead of a mechanical fuel dump into the cylinder.

After startup, the engine computer on an injected model monitors the products of combustion in order to lean out or rich the fuel-air mixture in a constant feedback loop -- that's what the O2 (oxygen) sensor is used for. This reduces the amount of the junk (i.e., products of combustion) which ends up in the oil. Carburettors do a reasonable job of mixing the air and fuel after startup, but it is sloppy by comparison because there is no constant feedback loop measuring the amount of oxygen in the exhaust.

To be honest with you, I really don't understand why fuel injection is not universal in the motorcycling world. Even Harley-Davidson has injection in all their bikes now despite still using older engine designs -- and ask Harley Davidson about their service intervals with the injected bikes; you'll be surprised to find they've gone to like 5,000 miles instead of 2500 for their pre-injection models. My Vespa ET4 (carburetted) has a service interval every 3750 miles -- my injected GTS250 has a service interval every 6250 miles. Injection really does make that much of a difference.

Injection usually adds no more than 500 dollars to the price of a motorcycle, but reduces the number of oil changes required per year, increases fuel economy, cleans up the exhaust, and lengthens the time between engine overhauls. As others have noted, despite all the hoo-ha about "overly complex" injection designs vs. "simpler" carburettor designs, carbs are much more likely to need some kind of service during their life than fuel injection systems. Especially if you let your bike sit for any length of time.

I also don't understand why Stella and PX150 fans have not demanded a direct injection 2-stroke kit from Vespa/LML because it would breathe new life into those bikes from an environmental perspective and a longevity perspective. Four stroke metal bodied scooters may be coming from Genuine (from LML) but they simply will not be the same level of fun as the torque-y two-strokes they're replacing. Direct injection means the injector actually squirts directly into the cylinder. The four stroke bikes usually use less efficient indirect injection -- another thing which makes no sense to me since direct injection improves power, emissions and fuel economy over indirect and only costs a little more.

Ralph

[Cheshire]

I wouldn't want a scooter who's engine was computer-regulated. Maintenance costs would go through the roof, and I wouldn't be able to do things myself without costly digital "equipment". Nah...I'm good with old-fashioned hunks of metal that I can work on at home, should I need to.

[350kmi]

According to my '07 Buddy's manual the oil change interval is 1000 miles/1600kms once past the initial break-in change. Still not 2000 miles, but it is the same recommendation that Honda makes for my Elite 80.

Does anyone know for sure that the Ecobuddy will be fuel injected? It seem unlikely that only one model in the Buddy line would go to injection. Also, I stopped by my dealer the other day and he though the better MPGs were the result of either a smaller carburetor or simply leaner carb. settings.

I would like to see a EFI option on the Buddy, I like the precise fuel control it offers. I have ridden a couple EFI bikes (Aprilia SR50 DITECH, Vespa GTS) and they are impressive setups in terms of power and economy.

[illnoise]

Does anyone know for sure that the Ecobuddy will be fuel injected? It seem unlikely that only one model in the Buddy line would go to injection.

my question too. It seems likely, because as I understand it Taiwan is requiring it on all bikes for 2009.

rtaite, thanks for the writeup. I think you answered your own question about why all scooters don't have EFI, it adds to the price. Scooters are so low-margin and scooterists are such cheapskates that it doesn't make sense financially. Plus, dealers make at least 2/3rds of their income cleaning carbs every spring. : )

Seriously, though, the only reason any scooters are EFI'd now is because EURO and now Taiwanese specs require it, the price will come down after a while and they'll start adding it to more U.S. models. It's still going to be hard to come by on a 50cc, i bet.

Cheshire, I believe you're right that it would add to the complexity of the bike and cost more to service, but it's a trade off for reliability and the whole point is you shouldn't have to service it. It's just progress, look at cars today, they're half-computer, and mechanics just switch out expensive components until it works. I love the simplicity of an old scooter, and knowing that I can fix it when it breaks, but most of the time these days, I prefer a scoter that won't break in the first place. The majority of scooterists these days want a reliable new 4-stroke with EFI, CDI, disk brakes, autochoke, shocks that work, gauges that work, etc.

Vintage is great for what it is, but even the Stella just isn't for everybody, it requires more maintenance, and kickstarting, and choking, and oil top-offs, and such.

[ericalm]

Besides better fuel economy and more reliable fuel delivery, there are two other major benefits to owners of injected gasoline engines over carburetted:

1) Longer interval before an engine overhaul is needed
2) Longer interval before an oil and/or filter change is needed

The second one is huge for me because I think the Buddy's oil change intervals are way too short (1000 kms/625 miles!). I won't own one for that one reason alone. However if the oil change intervals were like 2000 miles or something like that, I might be persuaded -- although I have to question an engine design which requires such frequent oil changes.

Ralph

Hogwash,if the Buddy design was cheesy,it would have showed up in many buddy scooters being down.On the contrary,the Buddy has proven itself 10 x over.As for the oil changes being to frequent,I agree.But whoever come up with the oil change intervals,were being overly cautious is all.Other than the first 1 or 2 oil changes needed to be done by your dealer,there is no reason why one cannot change the oil a little less frequently.Especially if one uses synthetic.

The first oil change is usually done around or before 600 miles, after which the interval is 2,000 miles (with synthetic, otherwise 1,500). The manual has an incorrect figure here, but Genuine has issued correct intervals and this is what most dealers follow.

[rtaite]

Eric,

My Genuine mechanic says that the oil change intervals are still 1000 kms although he says he doesn't think its needed that often.

Can you provide a Genuine Scooters link which shows the oil change interval lengthened to 2000 miles (which is over 3x longer than the interval recommended originally)? I would appreciate it and would gladly share it with the mechanics at that shop.

illinoise,

I'm not saying you're incorrect about the cost of injection components. They are more expensive. However, you then take a logical leap by saying that servicing fuel injected scooters is more expensive. Perhaps I misunderstood what you wrote, but you appear to have mixed two tounrelated ideas: one, the cost of fuel injection components with two, increased maintenance costs due to fuel injection failure. You MAY be correct, but I don't think it would be possible to infer one based on the other.

Let me give an example. Let's say a carburettor setup costs 500 dollars less at the time of purchase than a fuel injected setup. However, as you said, the annual ritual of cleaning carbs after a long winter and eventually having to do a carb rebuild actually nets you about 50-100 dollars a year more in additional maintenance than EFI over the life of the bike. And, just for the sake of my argument, EFI itself never goes bad in 99%+ of the bikes where it is installed. I think you would agree EFI would actually be cheaper to run than carbbed setups.

In 2001, I bought a Vespa ET4 and an Aprilia DITECH (direct injection two stroke). During that time, the ET4 has required one carb rebuild and a complete cleaning by a mechanic at least once a year. Also, the fuel lines had to be replaced -- but I assume this has nothing to do with the carb setup. During the time I've owned the DITECH, I had to replace the fuel lines once because they had degraded in the heat of the Texas summers. At no time have I needed any kind of tuning or replacement of EFI components. Although this is "sample size 1", it does illustrate my point: EFI REDUCED overall service costs related to fuel delivery between two bikes. Obviously, I would need two ET4s of similar vintage with carbbed vs. EFI setups to do a better comparison, but I think it is safe to say modern EFI has reduced costs for me personally.

Ralph

[jfrost2]

The first service must be done before 600 miles or your dealer can void your warranty and genuine wont be nice anymore to you But it's true.

Genuine themselves recommends getting the first change done at 200 miles. Then at 600, or 1000. I did mine at 200, then 1000, then every 2000 miles since I use synthetic oil.

If you use Dino oil, you'll do it every 1000-1500 miles.

Yes, the ecobuddy is fuel injected because taiwan is making manufactures switch to fuel injection in bikes produced there for better gas mileage to "Help lower our impact on global warming"

In taiwan though, I'm sure they dont restrict and lower jet the bubu's like genuine is doing for the ecobuddy. The bubu in taiwan probably gets 5-10mpg more than the carbed bubu, but in the US, the ecobuddy is restricted here and there so much, that is why it gets 110mpg.

[bikebuda]

to short of an interval

it is how much it holds = how soon it is contaminated

an average car holds 4 to 6 quarts of oil good for 3000 miles
this equates to anwhere from 750 to 500 miles of oil life per quart

makes more sense now doesn't it

[chancerbeans13]

No it doesn't! The thing you forget Bikebuda is that cars have 4-8 cylinders, Buddys have 1. Therefore if you want to break it down that way, Buddy's should be able to get at least 3000 miles before contaminated.

[jfrost2]

No it doesn't! The thing you forget Bikebuda is that cars have 4-8 cylinders, Buddys have 1. Therefore if you want to break it down that way, Buddy's should be able to get at least 3000 miles before contaminated.

I'm going to have to agree with Chancerbeans on this, you can even see from sight, I had 800 miles used on the oil back when I did my own oil change, the oil still looked brand new, but I changed it to be fresh.

[ericalm]

Eric,

My Genuine mechanic says that the oil change intervals are still 1000 kms although he says he doesn't think its needed that often.

Can you provide a Genuine Scooters link which shows the oil change interval lengthened to 2000 miles (which is over 3x longer than the interval recommended originally)? I would appreciate it and would gladly share it with the mechanics at that shop.

This came to the forum via an email from Genuine:
topic4196.html

Most dealers opt to do the first service at 500-600 rather than 200, which is too early to really work the kinks out. As far as I know, when the first dealer service was done has never been an issue with a warranty problem, as long as the service was done in first 1,000mi or so.

[rickko]

Eric,

My Genuine mechanic says that the oil change intervals are still 1000 kms although he says he doesn't think its needed that often.

Can you provide a Genuine Scooters link which shows the oil change interval lengthened to 2000 miles (which is over 3x longer than the interval recommended originally)? .

This is funny when there is a sticker on the handlebar cover that says to change oil every 1000km (that's 625 real miles or about 700 Buddy Indicated Miles on my scooter).



As screwed up as the speedo reading is, plus the fact the factory sticker says it in kilometers and then with a manual that says 1,000 miles (is that Buddy miles or REAL miles?) I suppose it's anyone's guess as to when to do your regular service.

Personally, I do the Indicated miles to actual kilometers conversion (subtract 10% of indicated then convert that to Kilometers) thus basing my service intervals on ACTUAL kilometers. All because of that little sticker found on the handlebar cover which is a warning to all buyers worldwide.

It doesn't make sense to me that for some reason, Buddys used in the US should have longer service intervals than all the others going to countries outside the US; especially when we have better roads and possibly more opportunity to run them at higher speeds for longer periods (more heat, wear, etc.) than in those countries. So, I ask myself why would their service intervals be shorter?

..rickko..

[gt1000]

The second one is huge for me because I think the Buddy's oil change intervals are way too short (1000 kms/625 miles!). I won't own one for that one reason alone. However if the oil change intervals were like 2000 miles or something like that, I might be persuaded -- although I have to question an engine design which requires such frequent oil changes.

When I first got my 06 125, Sportique was recommending oil changes every 1000-1500 miles. When I had the bike in for the 2nd service, they were saying oil changes every 3000 miles.

[ericalm]

It doesn't make sense to me that for some reason, Buddys used in the US should have longer service intervals than all the others going to countries outside the US; especially when we have better roads and possibly more opportunity to run them at higher speeds for longer periods (more heat, wear, etc.) than in those countries. So, I ask myself why would their service intervals be shorter?

I need to go have a look at the sticker, but as with the manual this it's probably just some weird PGO thing that got lost in translation. A modern 4-stroke engine using synth oil shouldn't need an oil change more frequently than every 2K miles.

We can ask some owners who have racked up 15K+ on their odometers; I think most of them probably follow the "every 2K" routine.

[rickko]

I need to go have a look at the sticker,

I don't think its weird at all. I think its their international sticker. Since they don't recommend synthetic oil, which isn't even available in some countries, it reflects their recommendation for the masses.

If it were for the US it would say 187 miles/625 miles (real miles of course), assuming they aren't using different engine bearings, piston rings, tranny gears & bearings just for US deliveries.

..rickko..

[newslinky]

The second one is huge for me because I think the Buddy's oil change intervals are way too short (1000 kms/625 miles!). I won't own one for that one reason alone. However if the oil change intervals were like 2000 miles or something like that, I might be persuaded -- although I have to question an engine design which requires such frequent oil changes.

When I first got my 06 125, Sportique was recommending oil changes every 1000-1500 miles. When I had the bike in for the 2nd service, they were saying oil changes every 3000 miles.

My dealer gave me the same mile ranges for oil changes for my 08 International

[rickko]

My dealer gave me the same mile ranges for oil changes for my 08 International

So, don't you question why the sticker on the bike and the Owner's Manual differs from the dealership?

There must be a reason why the mfg. says one thing, the distributor says another, local dealership's salesmen say another and their mechanics (I wonder what PGO training they have) say something else.

With all the differing opinions I'd go with the manufacturer's suggestion before I'd believe a local salesman. But I'd also follow whatever schedule the dealership feels fits within the terms of the warranty.

JMO,
..rickko..

[pcbikedude]

I gave it some thought, the Blackjack and the Eco-Buddy don't exactly light me on fire. It's pretty much the the auto manufacturers do. Change a little here and there and call it "All New".

I was really hoping for is the 50-state Stella or the 200cc vapor scooter.

[sunshinen]

Edited to fix quote

I don't think its weird at all. I think its their international sticker. Since they don't recommend synthetic oil, which isn't even available in some countries, it reflects their recommendation for the masses.

If it were for the US it would say 187 miles/625 miles (real miles of course), assuming they aren't using different engine bearings, piston rings, tranny gears & bearings just for US deliveries.

..rickko..

As anyone who has traveled can attest, the "international sticker" could still be seriously lost in translation.

And for maintenance things, it's always rounded to an easy number, like 1000, 5000, 30,000, rather than the exact number they think it should be done. So 1000k might just have been easier than asking people to do it every 1500k. And god only knows what the quality of their oil is like. Or the quality of their roads. I imagine the oil tends to get contaminated much more quickly in places where you ride around in heavy dust and pollution.

Not to mention that paved roads and highway driving is generally considered easier on the engine/vehicle than stop and go over rough roads.

pcbikedude: Sorry, it's not your wish come true, but I think it's a fair marketing scheme. (I even like the tease, as now I know I want to hold off on looking for a used one to see if I really want a new one.)

If they were really trying to call it "All New," they wouldn't still call it a Buddy. But yeah, it is like the auto industry. It's the same thing as a special edition of a car model. You know it's basically the same, with a few extra bells and whistles. If you like the new bells and whistles great! If not, well you can't blame a company for sticking with a model they can't keep on the showroom floors. =)

[scooterjon]

I was wondering what kind of changes they have done to make the ECO Buddy friendlier to the environment? According to the Air Resources Board it is not all that great in comparison to a Vespa 150 and Kymco 150 in the HC levels. Some interesting stuff.


Buddy 125 and 110cc
http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onroad/cer ... _1d0_h.pdf

Vespa 150
http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onroad/cer ... _1d0_h.pdf

Kymco
http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onroad/cer ... _1d0_h.pdf


Jon

[rtaite]

scooterjon,

One thing that struck me immediately based on what you submitted: the Buddy doesn't appear to use a catalytic converter. That would explain why the HC and/or CO levels are higher. A three way catalyst converts CO into carbon dioxide and HC into carbon dioxide and water.

The notes indicate an "engine modification" was done to achieve those numbers, but it doesn't explain what that means. I did some googling and "engine modification" does not always mean EFI. Honda made a distinction between engine modification and EFI when discussing how to make future motorcycles EURO 3 compliant.

Ralph

[jfrost2]

Engine modification = restricted, down jet, etc

[rickko]

The notes indicate an "engine modification" was done to achieve those numbers, but it doesn't explain what that means...

Could it be a charcoal cannister?

..rickko..

[bikebuda]

here simple math to clear things up

regular oil contaminates at about the same rate


most cars hold 4 to 6 quarts of oil
most cars go 3000 miles between oil changes

4 quarts into 3000= 750 miles to a quart
6 quarts into 3000= 500 miles to a quart

buddy 625 miles to just less than a quart not so strange after all

[jfrost2]

here simple math to clear things up

regular oil contaminates at about the same rate


most cars hold 4 to 6 quarts of oil
most cars go 3000 miles between oil changes

4 quarts into 3000= 750 miles to a quart
6 quarts into 3000= 500 miles to a quart

buddy 625 miles to just less than a quart not so strange after all

Sometimes math isnt always right even if calculated properly. First hand experience and looking at used oil with over 800-900 miles on it, it still was fresh. But it doesnt hurt to give it brand new, fresher oil to help the engine longevity. Ask any mechanic that works on these bikes, they will think changing your oil every 600 miles is a waste.

[bikebuda]

i am saying change your oil when it gets dark
dark = contaminated

[jfrost2]

625 miles is too short for oil to get dark

[JoeyPounds]

What if you use Royal Purple....It looks almost black when it is new. This is the easiest 15-40 synthetic I can find (PEP BOYS) in my area.
I change every 1000-1250 miles and ALWAYS looks black?




Royal Purple's full synthetic motor oil with Synerlec in mutil-viscosity grades for auto, motorcycle and other engines. This oil reduces friction and that means less heat and less wear on vital engine parts. Available viscosities are 5W20, 5W30, 10W30, 15W40, and 20W50. Price $7.99 per quart. Gain 7 to 10 Horse Power with just an oil change

[rtaite]

I actually have my scooter oil tested just to see whether the manufacturer numbers are realistic.

My Vespa ET4 will get around 4000 miles out of Amsoil 5w-40. My GTS250 will get over 5000 miles out of the same oil. That is based on actual oil testing.

I would love to hear anyone willing to get their Buddy's oil tested, but I'd find it hard to believe that it couldn't go at least 2000 miles without an oil or filter change.

Someone on here even said one scooter shop recommended 3000 with synthetic for the Buddy. That actually sounds believable. The little engine has a slightly smaller sump than the ET4 and at 125cc's it is probably working just a little harder.

I'm not suggesting anyone break the manufacturer's recommendations, but I would like to see some oil testing on the Buddy's to see how they stack up to the Italian bikes.

The lab I use is: http://www.oaitesting.com

They also analzye transmission fluid, coolant, and fuel, but that's mainly for cars.

Does anyone know if engine oil circulates through the gears? Or is engine oil separate from gear oil? This design can affect life because if the engine and final drive gears share the same oil, you can only use oil specifically made for motorcycles. Motorcycle oil has some of the friction modifiers removed to preventing slippage in the gears. My understanding is that having gears and piston lubed by the same oil bath can shorten oil life, but again, instead of speculating it would be nice to have people test.

Anyone?

Ralph

[BuddyLicious]

rtaite,

You seemed to have done your homework on the use of oils on your scoots. Good work.Hey have you got any recommendations for other synthetic oils besides Amsoil.In other words,are there just as good synthetic oils out there?

Thanks Tim

[rtaite]

Unfortunately, I only use AMSOIL so I can't speak with experience on other products.

I do know that most oil enthusiasts seem to think Royal Purple or Red Line is just as good as AMSOIL. Note: the recommended grade for the Buddy is 10W-30 and not 5w-40 which I mentioned in a previous post.

I typically use 5w-40 because that is recommended for most Italian scooters. I don't currently own a Buddy, but I'm watching Genuine closely for them to do something really "out of the box" like a direct fuel injected two stroke 200cc Stella with manual transmission, 70+ mph, wider tires so you get the best of all worlds. Or a fuel injected, water cooled Buddy International. Phil may one day surprise us with his willingness to do something edgy -- a product which is not available anywhere but the USA.

I also know that Mobil 1 0W-40 is NOT recommended for scooter use because it's too thin. The Mobil 1 10w-30 synthetic should be a good oil for the Buddy ASSUMING the gear and engine oils don't share the same sump. Mobil 1 is considered to be a good compromise between cost and performance. It's easily available at places like Pep Boys and Wal-Mart and yet it is a real PAO synthetic as opposed to the pseudo-synthetics marketed by Chevron which are just highly refined conventional motor oils. A decision was made by the FTC some time back that some highly refined conventional oils could be called synthetic although that's misleading as they are not as good as true PAO synthetics like AMSOIL, Mobil 1, Redline or Royal Purple.

Ralph

[scooterjon]

scooterjon,

One thing that struck me immediately based on what you submitted: the Buddy doesn't appear to use a catalytic converter. That would explain why the HC and/or CO levels are higher. A three way catalyst converts CO into carbon dioxide and HC into carbon dioxide and water.

The notes indicate an "engine modification" was done to achieve those numbers, but it doesn't explain what that means. I did some googling and "engine modification" does not always mean EFI. Honda made a distinction between engine modification and EFI when discussing how to make future motorcycles EURO 3 compliant.

Ralph

I was wondering how the ECO Buddy is going to stack up against other manufactures. It does not appear that the current line up does not stack up in this regard and the further you restict a carb based vehicle this really hampers the performance, since the Buddy has no cat I would assume that the performace has a little more pep then other brands, but then again we can see the Buddy 125/150 (Eco Buddy?) is not that ECO friendly. This would explain the limitation that PGO has on selling vehicles on the Euro 3 or 4 market. Maybe it is about time Genuine come out with an EFI vehicle to keep up with other manufactures not to mention the changes the EPA is putting on the enviroment.

Jon

[ericalm]

scooterjon,

One thing that struck me immediately based on what you submitted: the Buddy doesn't appear to use a catalytic converter. That would explain why the HC and/or CO levels are higher. A three way catalyst converts CO into carbon dioxide and HC into carbon dioxide and water.

The notes indicate an "engine modification" was done to achieve those numbers, but it doesn't explain what that means. I did some googling and "engine modification" does not always mean EFI. Honda made a distinction between engine modification and EFI when discussing how to make future motorcycles EURO 3 compliant.

I was wondering how the ECO Buddy is going to stack up against other manufactures. It does not appear that the current line up does not stack up in this regard and the further you restict a carb based vehicle this really hampers the performance, since the Buddy has no cat I would assume that the performace has a little more pep then other brands, but then again we can see the Buddy 125/150 (Eco Buddy?) is not that ECO friendly. This would explain the limitation that PGO has on selling vehicles on the Euro 3 or 4 market. Maybe it is about time Genuine come out with an EFI vehicle to keep up with other manufactures not to mention the changes the EPA is putting on the enviroment.

Jon

There is a Euro 3 version of the Ligero (Buddy) 125. I wonder if this is what we got as the Eco. I don't have full specs for either for a comparison.

[rayk]

Does anyone know if engine oil circulates through the gears? Or is engine oil separate from gear oil? This design can affect life because if the engine and final drive gears share the same oil, you can only use oil specifically made for motorcycles. Motorcycle oil has some of the friction modifiers removed to preventing slippage in the gears. My understanding is that having gears and piston lubed by the same oil bath can shorten oil life, but again, instead of speculating it would be nice to have people test.

Anyone?

Ralph

Buddy engine oil and gear oil are separate.
According to my manual recommended engine oil is SAE 15W40 and gear oil is SAE 140. When I get my first service I"ll ask my dealer (Motorsport Scooters) what they use (I'm only at 200 mi. now).

[jfrost2]

Genuine recommends to get the service done at 200 miles as the valves tighten during early break in, and there are many metal flakes and specs in the oil at break in.

It really doesnt matter what grade of oil you use, some use 5w-40, some use 10w-40, others use 15-w40 for the motor oil. Synthetic or Dino. Then some use 75w-140, others use 85w-140 for the gear oil.

[eldoroddo]

[quote="jfrost2"]Genuine recommends to get the service done at 200 miles as the valves tighten during early break in, and there are many metal flakes and specs in the oil at break in.quote]

WTF???!!!!!
Are we sure these aren't Chinese engines in these things?

[jfrost2]

All bikes are like this, initial engine wear takes off metal specs and flakes during break in. Even in cars, this is why the first oil change in a brand new car is usually done at such low mileage.

heres proof:

The optimum schedule is this for Buddy 125 and Blur is the following:

Change oil and perform first service at 200 miles. This includes a valve clearance inspection. Scooter people aren't typically familiar with valves, but people who are experienced with motorcycles (and four stroke engines in general) know this is a part of regular maintenance.

After the first oil change, you can go 1,000-1,500 miles (I recommend 1,000) if you use regular oil. If you use synthetic, you can go 1,500-2,000 miles between oil changes (I recommend 1,500).

Inspect the valve clearance every 4,000 miles, adjust if necessary.
-The standard valve spacing is between 0.06 – 0.10mm with engine off.
-When the spacing is too small, idle speed will become unstable and you can burn up the valves.

-When the spacing is too large, loud noise will occur and the scooter will run poorly.


This is all in miles, and straight from the factory.

Thanks!!!

Brett Ratner
Genuine Scooters Dealer Development

[rickko]

I was wondering how the ECO Buddy is going to stack up against other manufactures. ...

Since there are no US or global "ECO" standards any manufacture has to meet it really doesn't matter.

At this point since there are no ECO specific regulations combined with the greenie frenzy I'd be very leery of what any manufacturer might tell you of how 'ECO friendly' they are. (Remember how honest cigarette manufacturers were when unregulated)

..rickko..

[eldoroddo]

All bikes are like this, initial engine wear takes off metal specs and flakes during break in. Even in cars, this is why the first oil change in a brand new car is usually done at such low mileage.

heres proof:

The optimum schedule is this for Buddy 125 and Blur is the following:

Change oil and perform first service at 200 miles. This includes a valve clearance inspection. Scooter people aren't typically familiar with valves, but people who are experienced with motorcycles (and four stroke engines in general) know this is a part of regular maintenance.

After the first oil change, you can go 1,000-1,500 miles (I recommend 1,000) if you use regular oil. If you use synthetic, you can go 1,500-2,000 miles between oil changes (I recommend 1,500).

Inspect the valve clearance every 4,000 miles, adjust if necessary.
-The standard valve spacing is between 0.06 – 0.10mm with engine off.
-When the spacing is too small, idle speed will become unstable and you can burn up the valves.

-When the spacing is too large, loud noise will occur and the scooter will run poorly.


This is all in miles, and straight from the factory.

Thanks!!!

Brett Ratner
Genuine Scooters Dealer Development

What a hassle to return to the dealer after only 200 miles. They should just run them on a stand in Taiwan then perform the first service there. But then, how would the dealers make any money?

[eldoroddo]

I was wondering how the ECO Buddy is going to stack up against other manufactures. ...

Since there are no US or global "ECO" standards any manufacture has to meet it really doesn't matter.

At this point since there are no ECO specific regulations combined with the greenie frenzy I'd be very leery of what any manufacturer might tell you of how 'ECO friendly' they are. (Remember how honest cigarette manufacturers were when unregulated)

..rickko..

Funny how they can call it "ECO Buddy" when it doesn't even have computerized fuel injection

[ericalm]

What a hassle to return to the dealer after only 200 miles. They should just run them on a stand in Taiwan then perform the first service there. But then, how would the dealers make any money?

I don't know of any dealers who will even do the first service that early. Most tell owners to bring it in at 600 or so for first service. This is consistent with other scooters with modern 4-stroke engines.

I was wondering how the ECO Buddy is going to stack up against other manufactures. ...

Since there are no US or global "ECO" standards any manufacture has to meet it really doesn't matter.

At this point since there are no ECO specific regulations combined with the greenie frenzy I'd be very leery of what any manufacturer might tell you of how 'ECO friendly' they are. (Remember how honest cigarette manufacturers were when unregulated)

..rickko..

Funny how they can call it "ECO Buddy" when it doesn't even have computerized fuel injection

It is fuel injected, it will get higher MPGs than almost any other 4T 125cc, and it's more "eco" than the other Buddys.

We don't have full specs and figures on the Eco yet, but that hasn't stopped the chronic complaining crew from going into action. At the very least, hold your complaints until we get the specs and you can at least be somewhat authoritative in your kvetching and bellyaching.

[eldoroddo]

What a hassle to return to the dealer after only 200 miles. They should just run them on a stand in Taiwan then perform the first service there. But then, how would the dealers make any money?

I don't know of any dealers who will even do the first service that early. Most tell owners to bring it in at 600 or so for first service. This is consistent with other scooters with modern 4-stroke engines.

Since there are no US or global "ECO" standards any manufacture has to meet it really doesn't matter.

At this point since there are no ECO specific regulations combined with the greenie frenzy I'd be very leery of what any manufacturer might tell you of how 'ECO friendly' they are. (Remember how honest cigarette manufacturers were when unregulated)

..rickko..

Funny how they can call it "ECO Buddy" when it doesn't even have computerized fuel injection

It is fuel injected, it will get higher MPGs than almost any other 4T 125cc, and it's more "eco" than the other Buddys.

We don't have full specs and figures on the Eco yet, but that hasn't stopped the chronic complaining crew from going into action. At the very least, hold your complaints until we get the specs and you can at least be somewhat authoritative in your kvetching and bellyaching.

Gotta link for the EFI EcoBuddy?

[ericalm]

Gotta link for the EFI EcoBuddy?

Nope, and I won't until Genuine has the specs available. Which is precisely my point.

[eldoroddo]

Pardon my bellyaching....tomorrow will be 4 months since my wife ordered her Pamplona, and still we are without her scoot.

As you can ascertain, I am a bit miffed at the situation.

[pcbikedude]

We don't have full specs and figures on the Eco yet, but that hasn't stopped the chronic complaining crew from going into action. At the very least, hold your complaints until we get the specs and you can at least be somewhat authoritative in your kvetching and bellyaching.

I asked my dealer about the Eco, he brought out his pamphlet with specs. He told me that the Eco has a 125 engine. That's all I get out of him because my 18YO daughter was all excited to see so many Buddys in the showroom.

[ericalm]

We don't have full specs and figures on the Eco yet, but that hasn't stopped the chronic complaining crew from going into action. At the very least, hold your complaints until we get the specs and you can at least be somewhat authoritative in your kvetching and bellyaching.

I asked my dealer about the Eco, he brought out his pamphlet with specs. He told me that the Eco has a 125 engine. That's all I get out of him because my 18YO daughter was all excited to see so many Buddys in the showroom.

'Nother Buddy for your family soon?

[pcbikedude]

'Nother Buddy for your family soon?

Pretty likely.

[RuralRattler]

I figured there would be more intrests in the BlackJack that the Eco. Most people always talk about more power more power as far as scooters go and Just thought that people would really like the BlackJack. HMMMMM I dont mean to offend just an opinion.