The Stella 4T: Delay, Frustration, Deposits, etc.

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The Stella 4T: Delay, Frustration, Deposits, etc.

Post by ericalm »

Contrary to what some have said (or are maybe just thinking), the Moderators and I are not opposed to members posting complaints. We're not here to make excuses for Genuine. Our interest is the interest of members and the forum overall. That's the way we like it. That's the way Genuine wants it.

Genuine frequently promotes ModernBuddy in their ads, catalogs and marketing materials. We've never asked for this and they've never asked for anything in return. They've never interfered or try to influence what happens here and have told me in the past that they sincerely value the openness and honesty here. Aside from events like Amerivespa, I think I'm the only one who has much contact with anyone from Genuine, but that's still relatively rare.

The problems with some of the threads and comments about the Stella 4T have nothing to do with Genuine and everything to do with this becoming a difficult topic to moderate according to the forum's own guidelines. Criticism is fine, but at a certain point it becomes counterproductive complaining. Expressing frustration is understandable, but ranting isn't permitted. Constant reiteration and wheel spinning feeds and perpetuates the negativity, only serving to make people feel worse, or angry.

The Mods and I are trying to find the right balance here and it's a little trickier than usual.

Still, I'd like to be able to have people discuss these issues because I know it is important. So here it is. Let's talk about it.

All I ask is that everyone try to keep the concerns I noted above in mind and try to keep the angry mob with pitchforks mentality in check.
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Post by beeporama »

All of the impatience to get a Stella 4T is distracting me from my impatience to get a Blur 220! javascript:emoticon(':P')
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Post by stepandrepeat »

I am in the same boat as many other people, I guess 499 others. I understand that on Genuine's part they are doing what they can to get this 4t passed and to the dealers. My frustration with the current situation is Genuine's lack of communication in dealing with this process over the past 3 months. This lack of info breeds rumors, speculation and anger among the people who have put money towards a product they do not have.

I can assume Genuine understands and recognizes who their audience is, and that audience is chatting it up on forums like this. When the dealers don't have any more information than the consumer, there is a problem. And I think at this point Genuine should be in contact on a weekly basis with their dealers at this point. Updates with no relevant progress are still updates, and show recognition of the delay and frustration. Each sunny weekend that passes is just ripe for being upset at not having this product, so I would suggest that Genuine keep that in mind and try to calm the storm a bit with a little bit of transparency into what is happening.

Genuine did a good job at ramping up to this release, I would hate this current situation to overshadow the excitement and hurt their business in any way.



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Post by ericalm »

stepandrepeat wrote:My frustration with the current situation is Genuine's lack of communication in dealing with this process over the past 3 months. This lack of info breeds rumors, speculation and anger among the people who have put money towards a product they do not have.
+1. For what it's worth, I know Genuine's trying. They've always been good about transparency but I think they weren't ready for the flood on this one. The rumors and speculation are particularly dangerous but I think that this final delay has settled most of that. We know where they are and what's going on.

Ironically, Genuine used to be pretty tight-lipped when it came to new models and announcing (or maybe predicting) delivery and availability. I think we now have a better understanding of why.
stepandrepeat wrote:I can assume Genuine understands and recognizes who their audience is, and that audience is chatting it up on forums like this. When the dealers don't have any more information than the consumer, there is a problem. And I think at this point Genuine should be in contact on a weekly basis with their dealers at this point. Updates with no relevant progress are still updates, and show recognition of the delay and frustration. Each sunny weekend that passes is just ripe for being upset at not having this product, so I would suggest that Genuine keep that in mind and try to calm the storm a bit with a little bit of transparency into what is happening.

Genuine did a good job at ramping up to this release, I would hate this current situation to overshadow the excitement and hurt their business in any way.
I think if anything's hurting their business, it's not having the product available during peak riding/buying season. I don't know if this initial delivery would have sold out immediately, but there definitely would have been (and will be) a nice burst of sales as soon as they're available.

Not to diminish what customers are feeling, but my biggest sympathies right now are for dealers. They need the sales more than customers need new scooters.
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Post by jasondavis48108 »

ericalm wrote:Not to diminish what customers are feeling, but my biggest sympathies right now are for dealers. They need the sales more than customers need new scooters.
I hear that. With dealers having to close thier doors this is the last thing they need.
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Post by stepandrepeat »

For what it is worth, I am a first time buyer, and so this is my first experience within this industry. I don't have another bike to utilize or take advantage of while waiting on this one (or use of the money that is in deposit on the 4t). If that weren't the case I wouldn't mind this as much.

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Post by Gary Sebben »

I don't really get how this - a shapeless rant thread - is better than the very specific poll I put up, that seemed to be taken down by lostmycage due to his views on capitalism and not negative vibes or genuine. It was a simple poll to see what people consider an acceptable response from Genuine to people who have been waiting with the option to pick "nothing". That's the kind of thing that puts an end to this because it shows in numbers whether there is a vocal minority of a-holes like myself, or if this is a general agreement. Right now all we get is people willing to write a post in anger. Its not remotely scientific.
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Post by ericalm »

Gary Sebben wrote:I don't really get how this - a shapeless rant thread - is better than the very specific poll I put up, that seemed to be taken down by lostmycage due to his views on capitalism and not negative vibes or genuine. It was a simple poll to see what people consider an acceptable response from Genuine to people who have been waiting with the option to pick "nothing". That's the kind of thing that puts an end to this because it shows in numbers whether there is a vocal minority of a-holes like myself, or if this is a general agreement. Right now all we get is people willing to write a post in anger. Its not remotely scientific.
I don't see any ranting here. And if there is any, the thread will be edited or the post removed. The point of this is to discuss the problem in a sensible way without resorting to ranting. Read the OP, again and again.

I've reviewed your thread and have unlocked it. I think it's wrongheaded, but doesn't violate the guidelines.
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Post by bdonay »

Does anyone know what it takes to become a dealer? Just concerned after a recent experience I had with a motorcycle shop in ohio (Vespa trained) who work on my Vespa LX 150. Short version of the story; I took my bike in to get its 600 mile oil tune up and it took 4 weeks to get it back. And when I did, I lost oil pressure about a mile away from the shop. Turns out the plug or something came loose and allowed the oil to drain out of the engine. Needless to say the bike was never the same and soon afterwards I sold it. Oh ya, the shop is no longer in businees either.

So now I'm faced with the same situation. A local cali motorcycle shop has started carrying Genuines and I'm a little woried to say the least. Any insight would be great.
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Post by skootergurl »

My scooter shop is for sale if you want to relocate to Wisconsin...I am a Genuine dealer and proud of it! Selling the business because it is just too much work with a fulltime job too, it's been in business for 6 years and has everything you need to do business and a large customer base.
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The Stella 4T: Delay, Frustration, Deposits, etc.

Post by Tee Jay »

For all theose saying get over it and quit whinning

How many of you have ordered the 4T Stella?

We sold Vespa's (3) to afford buying these. And the balance $ would be due upon delivery. We have ordered 2

So please those of you with the get over it mentality of "quit Whinnin". Is it happening to you?
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Post by despurvoa »

It definitely says to quit whining on one of the other posted topics.
I think the point that was being made is that people who were led to expect something by a certain time are unfortunately left hanging, and no doubt feel frustration because they are powerless to do anything about it.
You and others may not feel the frustration Tee Jay does, but that is understandable because you're not in his situation.
I have not been a member of this forum for that long, but in the past few weeks, I have noticed what seems to be a strong bit of animosity from a few that have vs. those that currently have not.
From some (and I do stress some and not all) I sense a bit of indignation and down right self satisfaction from those that aren't affected by the recent debacle with the 4T Stella shipment.
I also sense a good bit of irritation and a mild bit of callous indifference towards those that are left waiting for this whole mess to be sorted out.
Everyone's circumstances are different, and while there are probably a few "me-firsts" out there who want what they want and want it now, there are more decent and nice individuals who would just like to be riding what they were told they would be riding by now, and until then, won't be riding anything.
No, I don't think anything is due from Genuine other than a fine, quality product, and even they are subject to the same uncertainties and unforeseen complications we all are. And I, like the others who placed a deposit need to be patient and realize it isn't a perfect world and that eventually these things work themselves out. In the meantime, if venting allows you to at least feel you have control over and uncontrollable situation, I don't see what's wrong with that! (provided its civil and not profane or personal)
I'm sure the vitriol will no doubt pour down upon me for even daring to have posted this, but then that is what a forum is about, right?
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Post by Rippinyarn »

Here's a two-part series that might help people understand the complexities of importing and re-marketing scoots in these Unites States - it ain't easy.

http://www.examiner.com/x-3223-Detroit- ... ion-part-1

http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-3223 ... ion-part-2
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Re: The Stella 4T: Delay, Frustration, Deposits, etc.

Post by ericalm »

despurvoa wrote:It definitely says to quit whining on one of the other posted topics.
As I posted in that other topic, there's a difference between whining/ranting angrily and nonsensically and expressing frustration, concerns and personal issues with the situation. What was happening in the other thread was that a lot of people were repeatedly posting the same basic message: "I'm sick of waiting." Okay, cool. Got it. No need to say it multiple times.

There are obvious valid complaints about this whole thing and it is having an effect on members. I definitely don't want to squelch discussion of this; that's why I started a new thread. Let's not confuse others' discussions and comments about them (i.e., the "What does Genuine owe us" thread) with the discussion here, where no one has actually said or even implied "quit whining."
Tee Jay wrote:We sold Vespa's (3) to afford buying these. And the balance $ would be due upon delivery. We have ordered 2
This is precisely the type of thing this thread is for.

The delays will have varied effects on those who are waiting on the Stella 4T because we're not all in the same boat.
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Post by ericalm »

Rippinyarn wrote:Here's a two-part series that might help people understand the complexities of importing and re-marketing scoots in these Unites States - it ain't easy.

http://www.examiner.com/x-3223-Detroit- ... ion-part-1

http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-3223 ... ion-part-2
Excellent posts, Ron! I strongly encourage those who are waiting (and those who are not) to read them.
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Post by JoshWED »

It's astonishing how well being a Genuine apologist is received here. Not that I think rants are productive, but here you have a company that has failed to meet milestones, failed to communicate, and failed to deliver much of anything related to the 4t to date.

Scapegoat the EPA all you will, but bottom-line is that there were major lapses in planning.

Could you go to your boss with a 4 month and counting delayed deliverable and expect them to think highly of you? Presumably they'd still take your work, and then look for every opportunity to sack you.
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Post by jasondavis48108 »

JoshWED wrote:It's astonishing how well being a Genuine apologist is received here. Not that I think rants are productive, but here you have a company that has failed to meet milestones, failed to communicate, and failed to deliver much of anything related to the 4t to date.

Scapegoat the EPA all you will, but bottom-line is that there were major lapses in planning.

Could you go to your boss with a 4 month and counting delayed deliverable and expect them to think highly of you? Presumably they'd still take your work, and then look for every opportunity to sack you.
I don't think its about being an apologist. Folks here have had years worth of great experiences with the Genuine company. There is obviously a lot of frustration, and I know I have said that I think folks who have not had those years of expereince would be even more pissed off at Genuine for the delays and lack of communication. That being said all reviews point to the fact that the 4T Stella will be worth the wait. Genuine puts out solid scooters at very competitive prices. If you want to here a buch of people hate on Genuine go someplace besides the ModernBuddy forum. If you hate Genuine or find them grossly irresponsible then go buy a different brand of scooter. All companies have thier issues, I'm a huge fan of Honda and they have major issues with pricing and baiscally abandoning the scooter market at times. I waited months to get my netbook when it was supposed to be shipped within a month. Sh*t happens and if you need the scooter for transportation right away don't order a scooter buy one offf the floor and avoid the whole damn thing but my guess is that when the 4T Stellas do come in and everyone is admiring the scooters of the folks who waited this out then folks won't be so quick to hate on a great company for some delays and misjudgments about how to handle those delays. I'm not trying to down play the frustration of those waiting on thier 4Y Stellas, it's got to suck, but at least they know they've got kick ass scooters coming to them.
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Post by Gary Sebben »

JoshWED wrote:It's astonishing how well being a Genuine apologist is received here. Not that I think rants are productive, but here you have a company that has failed to meet milestones, failed to communicate, and failed to deliver much of anything related to the 4t to date.
They're like Apple users around here, yes. They like to think they are part of this tiny, elite group that sticks together and all have a unique outlook on life. It's silly to invest that much emotion in a company that will surely stab you in the back when it serves them. They don't understand that even a mom and pop company is a company and will do anything to help their bottom line, including telling you there isn't a problem when there is. A company, like a boss, is not your friend no matter how friendly you are with eachother.

And, BTW, I am an Apple user. But I've also bitched when Apple has pulled shit. And I would bail on the platform all together if they wronged me enough.
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Post by Wheelz »

I understand your frustration but if the actions or words of this" tiny elite group that sticks together" bothers you, well then I'm sure there is a giant group of haters that could careless how you feel, what your doing, what you are or are not riding, or what computer you use.
If you don't like what we have to say then leave Gary and Josh it's that simple.
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Post by laxer »

Gary Sebben wrote:
JoshWED wrote:It's astonishing how well being a Genuine apologist is received here. Not that I think rants are productive, but here you have a company that has failed to meet milestones, failed to communicate, and failed to deliver much of anything related to the 4t to date.
They're like Apple users around here, yes. They like to think they are part of this tiny, elite group that sticks together and all have a unique outlook on life. It's silly to invest that much emotion in a company that will surely stab you in the back when it serves them. They don't understand that even a mom and pop company is a company and will do anything to help their bottom line, including telling you there isn't a problem when there is. A company, like a boss, is not your friend no matter how friendly you are with eachother.

And, BTW, I am an Apple user. But I've also bitched when Apple has pulled shit. And I would bail on the platform all together if they wronged me enough.
Pessimistic much? I get what you're saying, but I think that comparing Genuine to Apple is a stretch at best. And I know there are many out there who love to hate on the "evil" companies and corporations, but are we really that unwilling to forgive one mistake of a company that seems genuinely (pun intended) interested in keeping their customers happy? Maybe that's how these little, bright-eyed companies get so willing to do anything, because no one will give them the benefit of the doubt. Call me naive if you must, but I choose to believe that there still are companies out there that are run by good people who are trying to do the right thing.
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Post by jmkjr72 »

things like this happen
last year when yamaha brought out the zuma 125 it was released and sent to dealers the feds had no problem with it

but becuase the feds didnt pull any inspection on the new scoot other then the pre inspections

some states decided to pull there own and not let any one know untill the guy went to the dmv or the dmv sent the owner paperwork stating that hey guess what we havent finished our inspection in the scoot you already bought so untill we are done and decide its ok for the streets you cant take it on the streets too bad you shelled out the bucks

so the guys watied a month or two for deivlery and some ended up waiting another 3 months after they had them in there garage untill they could ride them on the road
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Post by JoshWED »

Very good point jmk. Seems to me that were Genuine a top notch performer, they would have known the same story...and many similar ones. This sort of knowledge should have affected how they planned a roll out.

I'm not willing to go Gary's route and turn this into a meta discussion of consumer loyalty. (though, to wit, he's the only one that has offered anything to explain why the forum behaves as it behaves). What I'm pressing at is this:

If, in due course, the 4t is great I am sure we all will want to praise it...and I am sure this forum will do so without grand caveats. We should, then, be willing to call a failure a failure, too.
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Post by jasondavis48108 »

JoshWED wrote: If, in due course, the 4t is great I am sure we all will want to praise it...and I am sure this forum will do so without grand caveats. We should, then, be willing to call a failure a failure, too.
The thing is, there are folks on this forum who have had the opportunity to ride the 4T Stella and they have given folks quite a bit to look forward to. It's suppossedly a awesome ride. I agree, Genuine should have simply kept the Release of the 4T Stella quiet until it was really ready to go. Sometimes building anticipation can blow up in your face as it has for Genuine with the 4T Stella. That being said, I still do not understand why on earth you would expect a forum dedicated to Genuine scooters to be the group that lynches Genuine at the first opportunity when everything doesn't go perfectly. Does Steve Jobs post occasional thank yous on apple forums. Do the owners of Vespa, Honda, Suzuki, or Yamaha continuely support forums dedicated to thier products both by public praise and financialy by running ads, not for thier products but for the forum? Maybe they do and I just don't know about it, all I can say is that Genuine does support this forum without interfering in it and that's pretty damn amazing. They support this community wether we're bitching and whining about the 4t Stella delay or where in the hell the cruiser is already (I have been guilty of this one :lol: ) or whether we are talking about how awesome the scooters are that we do have. I've seen other forums where they remove links to other companies brands. I understand that Genuine is a company and in bussiness to make money, but in the world of motorsports with titans like Honda, they certainly act differently and they are one of the very few that are really dedicated to the scooter market since that is the only place their money comes from. My honda came with a 1 yr warranty and I had to pay for a longer one. Genuine scooters come with a 2 yr warranty and road side. As far as comparing them to Apple, I only wish Genuine were on the same level as Apple, they would have paid off the EPA, everyone would have thier 4T Stellas and I'd be able to get better aftermarket parts for my scooter cause there'd be millions of them out there.
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Post by BuddyRaton »

As I posted in another thread I went through much the same thing when I ordered a07 650 Burgman Executive.

Hung up in shipping, came in damaged etc etc.

Yes the wait was painful, but worth it! It was...and still is...the scooter I wanted. I am glad I did not buy something else but waited it out. It is now hard to remember how bad the wait was and I still love that beast!

Hang in there all! If this is the scooter you want the wait will be worth it!!!!
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Post by Wheelz »

JoshWED wrote:I'm not willing to go Gary's route and turn this into a meta discussion of consumer loyalty. (though, to wit, he's the only one that has offered anything to explain why the forum behaves as it behaves).
There you go, nobody's asking you to explain why you do, what you do, are they?
It seems to me you have a place to voice your frustrations, am I wrong?
It seems to me you have a few others here that feel the same as you do, and you have a few that have tried to put things into perspective for you, to maybe take the stress and frustration down a notch or two.
Just so we're clear here, I have been following this thread and the others like it, since they started, and I do uderstand your frustrations.
But if your gonna attack the people that are supposed to be listening to you, well then that's kinda counterproductive dontcha think.
I'm not here to explain myself to you and I apologize for nobody but myself.
But I support this forum for the people here that have helped me any time I've asked for it.
As I said before, if ya like us here then fine, if not there are other forums out there where everybody wears their ass for a hat and nobody communicates at all. By all means your welcome to go and voice your frustrations there.
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Post by jasondavis48108 »

Wheelz wrote:
JoshWED wrote:I'm not willing to go Gary's route and turn this into a meta discussion of consumer loyalty. (though, to wit, he's the only one that has offered anything to explain why the forum behaves as it behaves).

As I said before, if ya like us here then fine, if not there are other forums out there where everybody wears their ass for a hat and nobody communicates at all. By all means your welcome to go and voice your frustrations there.
I don't think theres any problem with anybody venting thier frustrations, I think thats what this thread is for. I just wish folks would realize that its going to be pretty hard to convince a buch of folks that like Genuine scooters so much that they spend thier free time on the internet talking about them that the company is totaly f*cked up :lol:
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Post by Duomatic »

This topic reminds me of the years I worked for a company that imported all of their merchandise from Asia. We would get fifteen or more 40-foot containers a year. Most sailed through customs in less than a week, but we were always nervous about the effect on sales if there was even one day of delay. Every once in a while, a container would be selected for a more extensive exam, which could be a week, or several weeks, we never knew until it was over. It only happened once every year or two, and it was impossible to predict if a particular shipment would be chosen. When this happened, it cost the company thousands in wasted promotional efforts and lost sales, put a dent in employees' monthly sales commissions, not to mention the resellers who depended on our merchandise for their own revenue, and customers who had been waiting for a particular item. But, what to do? It was a fact of life in that business, and much wiser to cooperate completely than to risk ruffling the examining agency's feathers.

I recently sold my car, and aside from my bicycle, this new Stella will be my only transport when it arrives. I have to say that I am actually enjoying living without a gas powered vehicle for a spell. Not forever mind you, cross-town errands in Tucson's 104+ degree summer heat would be almost comfortable with a bit more speed and a bit less exertion. But my girth has diminished a wee bit from all the peddling, and the temporary lack of gas or insurance costs will mean a little more cash for accessories once I have a scooter.

I just hope the scooter arrives before I become skinny and rich... :wink:
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Post by jasondavis48108 »

Duomatic wrote:I just hope the scooter arrives before I become skinny and rich... :wink:
:rofl:

yeah, it's nice to know that you don't "need" a motorized vehicle. I commuted by bicycle through an incredibly cold winter here in michigan. Really let me know that if push comes to shove I can live without a car or a scooter for that matter, not that I'd want to live without either a car or a scooter but it's nice to know that they really are luxury items and not necesities.
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Post by JoshWED »

I agree that it has been nice to be off gas for a bit. My 2t vino's been out of service for a spell...so it's been about 5 months of feet and public transportation. The experience has actually had me questioning why go back to a motor at all--a super nice bicycle would be 1/3 the cost of a scoot.

In the end, I figured it best to wait for the 4t...at least I won't be pumping out obscene amounts of smoke anymore.
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Post by Rippinyarn »

An interesting story over at the Detroit Bureau on Chinese imports and the EPA's long arm of justice...

http://www.thedetroitbureau.com/2010/06 ... sions-law/

No, just Chinese manufacturer's listed, but I wonder who is the third-party emissions testing lab that Genuine uses?
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JoshWED
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Post by JoshWED »

So what do you think this means:

"Be assured that we will keep you informed as this governmental process and review continues"

Even if Genuine doesn't know anything more, it'd be nice to have an update that says so much.
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Post by Gary Sebben »

It means we won't hear a thing from them until September when they are released. I give up on this. I really think I'm pulling my deposit. I've never been so unhappy with the way a company handles a problem like this. Its dismissive and rude. I feel taken for granted and I don't know Genuine well enough to accept it, like Eric.
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The Stella 4T: Delay, Frustration, Deposits, etc.

Post by Tee Jay »

With frustration and irritation at Genuine Scooter for lack of communication and lack of a product. We are pulling the deposit on one of the two Stella 4T's we have on order. We've held in there as long as possible. We were so excited about getting the new Stella. Now I don't have alot of good things to say about their business practices ( I didn't say the quality of a scooter).

JUST FREAKIN COMMUNICATE!
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Post by JoshWED »

+1 to Tee Jay
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The Stella 4T: Delay, Frustration, Deposits, etc.

Post by Tee Jay »

With the lack of any type of communication from Genuine. I officially canceled my deposit on the 4T. People can only take so much! Thats the bad news. The good news is I just bought a Buddy Pamplona. Nearly new at less than half the price. Only a broken brake lever. BTW anyone know how to replace a broken lever?

It's still a good day!
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Re: The Stella 4T: Delay, Frustration, Deposits, etc.

Post by jasondavis48108 »

Tee Jay wrote:With the lack of any type of communication from Genuine. I officially canceled my deposit on the 4T. People can only take so much! Thats the bad news. The good news is I just bought a Buddy Pamplona. Nearly new at less than half the price. Only a broken brake lever. BTW anyone know how to replace a broken lever?

It's still a good day!
very cool. I'm sure the brake lever won't be that hard to replace, if a bit of a pain. I'd look at the service manual in the new member section and watch some youtube videos and you'll probably be all set. That's what I did in order to learn how to rejet my carb.
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Post by illnoise »

Here's a story that puts the genuine delays into perspective, maybe:

http://2strokebuzz.com/2010/07/02/epa-r ... inese-mfrs

Four importers had dozens of models' certification withdrawn, suddenly, AFTER they'd sold 200,000 units. These were off-road bikes and ATVs, not scooters, but 3 of the 4 importers also sell scooters.

The EPA says their broker falsified or withheld emissions information.

Last August, 1400 scooters were seized at the texas border:

http://2strokebuzz.com/2009/08/27/cbp-s ... xas-border

At the time, it was rumored to be all Chinese, but I've heard since that there were Aprilias in there.

Both of these cases are what consumers and dealers have been begging for, for the last ten years, more accountability by the EPA, DOT, NHTSA, and DHS/Border Patrol, to stop all the substandard unsafe/non-conforming crap that's been coming in. Sadly, it seems like that's tangled up some of the 'good guys' too. It's a huge drag for them, but we all have to realize, in the long run, it's good that the agencies involved are finally taking an active role in this.

I found a list the other day of CARB project managers and the importers they were assigned to. One woman handles just about every brand of scooters, and she's also listed as CARB's contract for the broker that had their certifications questioned. That makes me wonder if maybe Genuine (and lots of other brands) use this same broker. The broker claims to work with over a hundred of the top importers, so maybe all the agencies saw this as a wake up call to be more cautious and go back and retest some of the other bikes this company approved. That's just a theory, of course, but it would explain a lot.

With the entire country riled up about sloppy accountability and questionable ethics of Mining and Minerals in the BP oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico, no government regulators are taking any chances now. This woman is from CARB, but someone at EPA and DOT and NHTSA has the same job, they don't want to be strung up in front of Congress if some celebrity dies on a substandard scooter, or the New York Times or Wall Street Journal do some expose on how bad scooters are for the environment. Again, I feel for all of you waiting for bikes, but this is a political and legal hurdle that's certainly hurting Genuine and their dealers more than it's hurting any individual customer.

Why are we Genuine 'apologists'? People that are really into scootering want to see the whole industry succeed, and with so many questionable manufacturers, importers and dealers, we've seen it all. We know Genuine are leagues ahead of most other importers and really set the standard for the U.S. scooter industry. It's important to us to get it across to you that they're as good as it gets, and by all accounts, they did everything right, and this is just an unfortunate setback for them, you, AND all of us who support scootering.

With all due respect, are you able to get your deposit back? If you were promised a bike by a certain date and the dealers' end of the bargain was not held up, you'd seem entitled to a refund of your deposit. I'd rather you were patient, and so would your dealer and Genuine, but if you're actually facing financial hardship and/or lack of available transportation, I can't imagine the dealer wouldn't be willing to work with you to find a solution. If the date for the delivery wasn't specified in your contract, you took that risk when you put down a deposit, I guess. I don't know that Genuine ever PROMISED a date, though I'm sure dealers EXPECTED them by now, and so did you.

On top of all that, Genuine is notorious for keeping customers happy, and I bet they're working on ways to soften the blow. If nothing else, appreciate their honesty and openness, and be glad you didn't put down a deposit on a CMSI "L-series" or a Italjet Dragster or the dozens of other high-profile 'hot' bikes that never showed up at all. Or that you weren't one of the dealers who put deposits down on the Sachs MadAss and waited a year and a half to get them. This stuff happens a lot, and it often doesn't have a happy ending, in this case, it looks pretty certain everything will work out fine and you WILL get a bike and it will be great.
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Re: The Stella 4T: Delay, Frustration, Deposits, etc.

Post by illnoise »

Tee Jay wrote:With the lack of any type of communication from Genuine.
I understand you were upset, but was the press release--clearly stating why there was a delay and telling you everything they knew about the situation, posted on their site within a couple days of the realization that there was a problem-- not "a type of communication?"

A dealer can correct me if I'm wrong, but Genuine has scooters earmarked for your dealer, and your dealer took your deposit and is earmarking one of their scooters for you. Genuine doesn't have a list of people who placed deposits, and thus has no way to communicate directly with them, that's the dealers' responsibility.

Again, I understand the frustration and disappointment, but I don't understand why some people are taking it as a personal affront, as if Genuine DOESN'T WANT YOU to have a Stella, and are doing everything in their power to NOT sell scooters.

Bryan
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Post by armentanzarian »

Yesterday I had dinner at one of my favorite restaurants (plug: http://www.elnuevomexicano.net). When the margarita pitcher arrived, our five glasses were pre-filled, and the pitcher was filled to the brim. I was so impressed that I mentioned to our server how classy a move that was. His response was, "we do that because we appreciate your business."

When I took a look at the most recent posts in this thread tonight, I realized that last night's margarita experience represents what Genuine is failing to grasp. I understand the arguments of the Genuine apologists who write here. I really do. But it's now July. All the excitement surrounding the 2010 Stella has turned into disappointment. It's not Genuine's fault, and we the consumers are not legally or morally owed anything, but what Genuine doesn't realize is that now is the time to make us feel good about their brand by really impressing us. Their sporadic communication does the opposite.

I bailed on the 4T last week and bought a 2T Stella with 5 miles on it. I talked the dealer down to $2799, and I couldn't be happier with my choice. I like Genuine Scooter Company, but when they had the chance to really win me over, they stumbled.
Last edited by armentanzarian on Tue Jul 06, 2010 1:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by despurvoa »

I did the same thing, and I LOVE my Black 2-Stroke Stella, Bella!
Everything worked out, although not as intended.
I, too, got tired of the apologist comments, although they have as much right to defend as we do to vent.
Personally, I don't like to feel like I am wrong for expecting a company to come through and Genuine DID initially give every impression that the 4T would be in before July, no matter how it's spun.
Again, apologists have the right to criticize me for my lack of infinite patience, but I have the right to criticize the apparent (and I do stress apparent, from my point of view) "carte blanche" given Genuine by these same apologists.
Was Genuine responsible for the EPA BS? No. But they were responsible for not being proactive towards customer concern until there were constant calls to Genuine and posts on forums like this one. I know, because I remember the calls I made leading up to the eventual post on Facebook.
And having been in marketing, I know that when a vendor slips up and leaves you hanging, you do everything you can to maintain the best relations with your client including going above an beyond and compensating without losing your margin, not just informing the client that "sh_t happens."
Anywho, ultimately I am happy with my Stella and I am riding around in what is left of the driving season in Wisconsin.
As always, I sincerely hope the rest of the Genuine faithful who still have their deposits for the 4T are rewarded VERY soon!
Sending out good thoughts to you guys and everyone (including the apologists!)!
Genuine Stellas rule!!!!
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Post by jasondavis48108 »

I love how the last two people who continue to refer to those who still believe that Genuine is a reputable company as apologists went and bought a 2T Stella! If you really feel that the comapny has screwed you over so bad why on earth buy a Genuine scooter. The only thing I can think of is that even you, who get pissed off because we didn't share your complete hatered Of the Genuine Company must recognize that Genuine produces quality products at an excellent prices and that they back up thier products with some really good warranties (not that I've ever had to use mine).

I'm really glad to here that you both were able to get 2T Stellas. I just hope that once you get to ride your awesome scooters for awhile we'll get to hear you say something positive about a really aweosme American scooter company who Genuinely understand the customers they serve.

Its not that I don't understand the frustration, I do, but the negativity over this has gotten really intense and I just hope once the 4T Stellas are here this negativity doesn't continue to permeate modernbuddy, that would be really disapointing.
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Post by JoshWED »

@Illnoise/Bryan - I don't think any of the genuine critics are saying that the product is bad; rather, they are saying that Genuine is poorly handling the situation.

As for your reference to the press release as information: the press release promised more information. Genuine said, "Be assured that we will keep you informed as this governmental process and review continues and we thank you for your support."

Well here we are weeks after that release with no new releases. Not even to say, "we don't know anything." The critics are pointing out that Genuine consistently fails to deliver in its handling of the 4t. It smacks of the worst stonewalling, boys-club politicians here in DC!

That said...it's too damn hot here these days to ride...so I patiently wait for a fall release.
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Post by despurvoa »

Talk about misconstruing intent!
I think if you read my post, Jason, you'll see I never expressed a "complete hatred of the Genuine company" and in fact, stated my enthusiasm for the product and for being able to enjoy my 2t Stella.
I guess if you are critical about one aspect of a company's performance, that becomes equated with "hatred."
For many, it's an all-or-nothing proposition. Not for me. I believe you CAN be critical of one thing, yet be supportive of the whole. I believe that
It's a shame that someone sees me as "hating" this company as I have referred many of my friends to Genuine for the purchase of Buddy Scooters, even while this situation has gone on. (All of them are quite happy with theirs, I might add!)
I would think the comment, "Genuine Stellas rule!!!!" is rather positive. Perhaps extra smiley faces around it would have gotten my point across!
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Post by JoshWED »

:D :) :D :)
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Post by despurvoa »

LOL!
Thanks, Josh! Let me do it over!

Ahem:

"Genuine Stellas Rule!!!!!" :D :) :D
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The Stella 4T: Delay, Frustration, Deposits, etc.

Post by Tee Jay »

For the people who seem to think Genuine's communication practice is acceptable (the apologist's). Did you actually order one? I also noticed some are not listed as "members".

If you can relate it to sports, it's kind of like athletes who act out, off the field. But you have to respect the product they put on the field. Fine top of the line performers. That's my thought on how this is going with Genuine. I just got an 09 Buddy. It's here and I respect the product on the field.
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huh,

Post by Lovelandstella »

here's what I should have done...
(fyi: I paid in full in march to get the spring fling package. AND I have no working ride other than a Jetta, no other scoots that work)
I wonder if I could have have either paid the Dealer a bit more or sweet talked them to let me "borrow" one of their used Stella 2T's (or any of their scooters) to ride until the 4T came in. they are all still there, this whole time. in the months before EPA got their hands on them and now for the months after EPA has them.
anyway and then when the 4T finally comes in, I just exhange the used scoot for my new 4T and voila! seamless transition and I can even get all warmed up on a "beater scooter" (paraphrased advice from lostmycage, I think?)

wonder if I can try that manouver now?, it shouldn't be too long now.
but if it is for some reason (going to be a long time still before my 4t is in my hands) then maybe I Should ask them...
maybe we all should. well all of us who paid in full. Or for all of you deposit only people to say - "hey how about I pay in full and you let me borrow another scoot (that is not selling too well) in the meantime?"
it might be too hot to ride for you all but this is when colorado gets to your regular weather and with the exception of a few 5 minute showers, pretty much every single day since april has been a wasted day.

any ideas on how to "phrase" it?

(like I promise to hand out business cards for the dealer everywhere I go like a "scootin' commercial"?
~Lovelandstella
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Post by armentanzarian »

Whoa, Jason! Did you actually read our posts? I don't know what else to do but respond by quoting my original post:

"I like Genuine Scooter Company"

That warrants repeating: "I like Genuine Scooter Company"

"we the consumers are not legally or morally owed anything"

"It's not Genuine's fault"

"I couldn't be happier with my choice"

"I understand the arguments of the Genuine apologists who write here. I really do."
Last edited by armentanzarian on Tue Jul 06, 2010 1:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by illnoise »

JoshWED wrote:@Illnoise/Bryan - I don't think any of the genuine critics are saying that the product is bad; rather, they are saying that Genuine is poorly handling the situation.

As for your reference to the press release as information: the press release promised more information. Genuine said, "Be assured that we will keep you informed as this governmental process and review continues and we thank you for your support."

Well here we are weeks after that release with no new releases. Not even to say, "we don't know anything." The critics are pointing out that Genuine consistently fails to deliver in its handling of the 4t. It smacks of the worst stonewalling, boys-club politicians here in DC!
I think what you're missing is that Genuine is just as confused, upset, and clueless as you are, this totally blindsided them. I test-rode the first prototype of the US-Spec Stella last summer, later that day it was sent to California for testing. A couple months later, it was approved with flying colors. Genuine would have never placed an order with LML without knowing the bikes were approved and all the pieces were in place. They did exactly what they were supposed to do, everything was set to go, and the EPA held the shipment pending a re-evaluation. I dont' think Genuine has any idea how long this is going to take, so they (unlike just about any other scooter company) aren't going to make any promises until they are sure they can keep them.

I don't see how it's bad business. It's a crappy situation for everyone, but they can't make these bikes magically appear, I'm sure they're doing everything in their power to get the bikes approved as quickly as possible, because, again, they're losing schloads of money. But again, they have no way to contact individuals, other than through the dealers, and they're not hiding anything, they're just waiting for more information.

It is definitely a PR nightmare for them, but I don't think they did anything irresponsible, and they seem to be sharing all the information they have, so it doesn't make them a "bad company," just an unlucky one. and like I said before, I bet they'll at least come up with some sort of token gesture eventually, my suggestion is a "Stella 4T: worth the wait" t-shirt with every order, ha.
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The Stella 4T: Delay, Frustration, Deposits, etc.

Post by Tee Jay »

If you went to a restaurant and ordered a meal (without a deposit) and it took alot longer than you and they thought. Wouldn't you hope they would come by every few minutes or so, to let you know that they're doing the best they can?

That's all that was asked for

COMMUNICATE
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