The Stella 4T: Delay, Frustration, Deposits, etc.

[Silver Streak]

For the people who seem to think Genuine's communication practice is acceptable (the apologist's). Did you actually order one? I also noticed some are not listed as "members".

If you can relate it to sports, it's kind of like athletes who act out, off the field. But you have to respect the product they put on the field. Fine top of the line performers. That's my thought on how this is going with Genuine. I just got an 09 Buddy. It's here and I respect the product on the field.

Well, I -- for one -- resent being branded an apologist. I'm a borderline socialist, and don't apologize for the actions of corporations. But I'm old enough (62) to have long ago learned that shit happens, and that organizations of any sort do what they feel they need to do to manage a crisis. Yes, Genuine could have done a better job. No, I'm not put off on continuing to wait for my Stella 4T. I know what I want, have a great deal of patience, and I'm willing to wait for it (and, yes, I do have a deposit on one, made way back on March 3).

This is at least as much of a disaster for Genuine as it is for any of you individually, and I really feel sorry for the dealers who are caught in the middle, having to refund deposits for a situation not of their making and having to listen to whining and unreasonable demands for reparations from those who've never learned that gratification is not always near-instantaneous.

It will be nice to be the one chortling when I eventually get what I've wanted all along... a nice, classic, shifty scooter with a clean engine.

I can wait.

[jasondavis48108]

o.k. I applogize (oh wait maybe I shouldn't, you'll just call me an appologist). I shouldn't have used the phrase hate I should have said "hating on" as in bi*ching a whole lot and getting pissed off when folks tried to explain how this can happen and then basically calling anyone who didn't hold a particallarly hostile point of view an apologist. I suppose I should have stopped reading these posts quite some time ago as I'm totally sick of giving my point of view as someone who has had really good experiecnes with the Genuine company and then being told that I am basically a Genuine brown noser apologist. I suppose folks really want to be totaly pissed off about a situation that neither they, nor Genuine has any control over. I've been there and I know that when I just want to be angery about something I don't want someone else trying to get all rational with me so I appologize for that as well.

Once again, I am happy to hear that you were able to get a scooter that you are happy with. ( personally I like the 2T Stella better myself) Hopefully all this BS will be over by the Fall as I really like communicating with other Genuine scooter owners on this board but as I said in my previous post, the negativity really sucks around here at this point.

[Wheelz]

one more person throws out the "apologist" line, and I'm gonna start throwing some names around too....
Quit attacking the people that are here trying to "communicate" and understand or make you understand what is going on. It's clear to me now nothing short of you getting your scooter is gonna make you happy.
So as it is, stomp on the floor kicking and screaming, take your ball and go home, do what ever it is you need to do to feel better, until that happens.
But call me an apologist one more time....

[despurvoa]

Perhaps, in some cases, region may have something to do with the "divide." Having been transplanted from a warm state (Texas) to a cooler state (Wisconsin), I can definitely appreciate the Spring Fever that catches when you finally can do something outside without having to bundle up.
For me, the anxiety from the hold-up translated into frustration more quickly than I would imagine someone from Southern California might experience.
I'm sure there would be some who'd say I can still ride it, even after a late Fall delivery (God forbid!). I HAVE heard of people riding their scooters in the dead of Winter in Northern Wisconsin, but then I've heard some people say they've seen Bigfoot! I can attest to neither!

All I know is, when those 4T bad boys come in, I want pictures from you happy 4T owners!
Especially those creme colored ones! I'm not dissin' on the other lovely hues, but I think those creme colored Stellas with the brown seat and grips...che bella!

[despurvoa]

By the way, I don't mean to imply that anyone in California shouldn't be concerned about the late arrival of their Stella, I just mean that weather and climate are greater influences on our behavior and attitudes than we might think, and I would think if I were still living in Brownsville, Texas, I'd be riding a scooter much more than I get to here.

[JoshWED]

It isn't lost on me that there are events they couldn't plan for. But Genuine didn't have to say they were going to keep us informed. It was their choice to put that line in the press release. So I agree, a PR disaster for them.

At the end of the day, though, it's not about how Genuine feels about this situation. This is, after all, a business transaction. Not some kumbaya moment of scooter bliss.

But whatever: some of us like them, some of us don't, and here we have a great forum to discuss. Can't wait to gush about how great the damn thing is once it's here. And this forum can be all fuzzy and cuddly again.

[mattgordon]

But Genuine didn't have to say they were going to keep us informed. It was their choice to put that line in the press release. So I agree, a PR disaster for them.

Maybe they simply have nothing to report regarding this.....

[jmkjr72]

like it was stated before the way they will keep you informed is thru your dealer
as the corparte office at genuine doesnt know who all as put deposits down or prepaid for scooters
this is how any manufacture works the comunication about deliver of your vehcile will come from the local dealer

even though i dont have one on order every time i stop by the shop my local dealer tells me what is going on with them

[Wheelz]

But Genuine didn't have to say they were going to keep us informed. It was their choice to put that line in the press release. So I agree, a PR disaster for them.

Maybe they simply have nothing to report regarding this.....

+1 Matt, thats what I'm trying to say as well.

[mattgordon]

But Genuine didn't have to say they were going to keep us informed. It was their choice to put that line in the press release. So I agree, a PR disaster for them.

Maybe they simply have nothing to report regarding this.....

+1 Matt, thats what I'm trying to say as well.

And of course, Genuine would like this resolved as badly (or worse) than even the most impatient early customers who have made deposits and are eagerly waiting release of their vehicle.

Right now nobody wins....and any grief/inconvenience/worry/bother etc., experienced on the retail side is multiplied as you travel up the food-chain: dealer, manufacturer.

Glad I'm not on the wait for one of these, but with many folks cancelling their orders, maybe I can make an impulsive purchase when they DO hit the streets

Patience folks...good things come to those that wait....

[Lovelandstella]

lets clear this up. the whole meaning of "communication" seems to be interpreted differently on both sides here. not "wrong", just "different",

So, here is one side of the table:

But Genuine didn't have to say they were going to keep us informed. It was their choice to put that line in the press release. So I agree, a PR disaster for them.

Maybe they simply have nothing to report regarding this..…

+1 Matt, thats what I'm trying to say as well.

to sum up: (to this side) "Communication" means "they will tell us when they know stuff"
ie: lets say they don't get released from the EPA for 3 months, that Genuine would not notify the customers/dealers untill they EPA is done with them and the 4T's are about to be shipped out. In essence, leaving the customers/dealers in the dark untill the very end.

And here's the other side:

If you went to a restaurant and ordered a meal (without a deposit) and it took alot longer than you and they thought. Wouldn't you hope they would come by every few minutes or so, to let you know that they're doing the best they can?
That's all that was asked for
COMMUNICATE

to sum up: (to this side) "Communication" means "they should tell us regularly even when they don't know stuff"
ie: lets say they don't get released from the EPA for 3 months, that Genuine would/should notify the customers/dealers regularly even if they have "nothing to report" to keep us all in the loop and then also once the EPA is done with the 4T's and they are about to be shipped out- we would also be notified. In essence, leaving the customers/dealers in the light untill the end.

except to be fair, Tee Jay's was posted on: Sun Jul 04, 2010 9:18 am, while Mattgordon's post was on Sun Jul 04, 2010 8:44 pm... almost 12 hours later.

so not only are we not agreeing with each other, we are not even reading each others posts…

But enough of pointing that stuff out, lets see what Genuine has to say about what they promise to do:

Be assured that we will keep you informed as this governmental process and review continues and we thank you for your support.

Simplified version: Be assured that we will keep you informed as this …review continues …
This was posted by Genuine on: Thu Jun 17, 2010. I know because polianarchy was the 1st to post it here!
This was not a statement made at gunpoint (I don't think), Genuine made this statement themselves and they signed their own name to it with their logo and they put it on their own website. This is their statement. It is their own promise.


Now here is my opinion:
I believe that the use of the word “continues” means "continually" (a big jump, I know)- this is similar to what Tee Jay expected.
Otherwise, if it was what Mattgordon and Wheelz said then I feel Genuine would have used the phrase “we will keep you informed when this is finished” instead of “we will keep you informed as this continues”. Continues vs at the end
If you disagree with my read on what I feel is clearly meant by Genuine in this part of thier update on June 17, then please post your reply, I am eager to see any other reasoning, if any.

Now, The fact remains that genuine posted a statement that they would basically “keep us informed as this continues” (basically) and that was 2 1/2 weeks ago and we haven’t heard since then. Not even a "nothing to report"
That is something that no one can deny without a statement from Genuine, and that is all we are asking for anyway. Regular communication.

Time will tell. if the EPA time turns into a year and Genuine gives us an update every month- that may be reasonable.
but if the EPA time is just a few months or shorter, then I think Genuine's honesty and character is on thin Ice, since they were the ones that promised they would
keep [us] informed as this …review continues and they alone can make good on that promise or fall short of it.
No one but Genuine can be blamed or praised for the making ir breaking of their own promise to "keep us informed". Not the "EPA", not "the shipping industry". not you or me. the ball is in Genuine's court right now and it's all on them.

As for me, don't be fooled, I’ll stick with waiting; though I am not happy about it. As I said in another topic:

To give up on the stella 4T now (and transfer your deposit to the 2t) would be like climbing all the way up the high dive just to be lowered by rope.

(but that’s just me;-))
Or as 10GallonHat said it in that same topic: (I like it)

If you are considering pulling your deposit, think about it this way: You put your money down and waited and waited and waited. The Stella will [eventually] arrive at your dealer, and [if you pull your deposit] somebody who didn't wait at all, will walk in a be able to buy it with no suffering or agony over the wait time.

I added the [brackets].

Ride one for me!

[BuddyRaton]

So I guess some people want a daily update that says
"we haven't hear anything"?


Oh to remember the early days when Genuine wold tell us "2 weeks" for things like rear racks.

It really doesn't matter what GSC does anymore...if people want to be angry they are going to be angry..if they are patient... they are patient

[Lovelandstella]

So I guess some people want a daily update that says
"we haven't hear [sic] anything"?

Nope. don't be silly.
see my post above:

Time will tell. if the EPA time turns into a year and Genuine gives us an update every month- that may be reasonable. it hasn't yet been a month, only 2.5 weeks, so Genuine could still be in the window of a "reasonable" time frame
but if the EPA time is just a few months or shorter, then I think Genuine's honesty and character is on thin Ice, since they were the ones that promised they would keep [us] informed... if they promise to keep us informed but they do not do so, they are promise breakers and that is a detriment to character in a person or "brand" in a company. Genuine cares about their "Brand", and so do I. no one wants it to be tarnished, but breaking their own easy promises is a sure way to do it.

I added all the bold parts for clairification

It really doesn't matter what GSC does anymore...if people want to be angry they are going to be angry..if they are patient... they are patient

nah. I am not angry, I am just "not happy".
I am trying to facilitate both sides to understand each other. I agree that I cannot change how you think and vice versa, just to better understand where each other is coming from.

and perhaps ... *IF* in several weeks time *if* Genuine still hasn't responded with *any* news... that *then* we all could *possibly* agree that *maybe* Genuine dropped the ball when there was *no one else* to blame.
I hope it doesn't come to that- they just need to respond to their face book wall posts. from me.

[jasondavis48108]

I took Genuines statement to mean that as soon as they have any information they will pass it on. Not when the EPA is finished but just when they have any info. This means if the EPA tells them "hey, its gonna be another month" Genuine will pass that on to us. I didn't get from there statement, we will continue to give timely updates even when we don't have any new info. I do however, think that if enough folks asks for it, they may give weekly updates via twitter or some such thing, even if they don't have any new news to report. Have you asked anyone at Genuine if this is a possibilty? I have to beleive that Genuine being a relatively small company would be more reseptive to these sorts of recommendations.

[illnoise]

They posted the press release on Facebook and Twitter about two weeks ago (only a week ago when this thread started). It read "At this point we have been advised to wait for a response from the government without any indication of how long it may take."

If you think it's bad PR to NOT update everyone daily, think of how bad PR it would be if they DID post daily saying "Still no idea when our bikes are coming!"

When they hear something, they will let you know. If it gets to be a reasonably long time without an update, I imagine they will eventually post an update that says "we still don't know anything." But government stuff never happens fast, and if you're holding out hope to get your bike within a matter of days, I really don't think that's going to happen. Even if it's approved quickly, it's not like your bike is already sitting at your dealership, prepped and ready to go.

I've waited for stuff like this before, and I know it's enough to drive you nuts, so I understand the frustration and impatience, I'm just saying, getting mad about it isn't going to speed anything up, all you can do (and sadly, all Genuine can do) is try to be patient and hope for the best.

[Lovelandstella]

I took Genuines statement to mean that as soon as they have any information they will pass it on. Not when the EPA is finished but just when they have any info. This means if the EPA tells them "hey, its gonna be another month" Genuine will pass that on to us. I didn't get from there statement, we will continue to give timely updates even when we don't have any new info. I do however, think that if enough folks asks for it, they may give weekly updates via twitter or some such thing, even if they don't have any new news to report. Have you asked anyone at Genuine if this is a possibilty? I have to beleive that Genuine being a relatively small company would be more reseptive to these sorts of recommendations.

I have, several times, via their own facebook pages and they rarely respond. those are my exact recommendations, and the lack of response is a head scratcher. I figure use a tweet account or face book page for the simple updates they were created for, but... nothing. it's sad.
it's such an easy thing to do that when nothing is done, soome could take it personally. I bet most here who pulled their deposit looked at it that way.
As for me, I just guess they are so focused on scooters and all the other stuff that they somehow might not realize just how easy it is to "keep us informed".
As a matter of fact, from a business standpoint, they seem so obvlious to what facebook and twitter can do in this scenario that they probably don't screen their own younger employees from doing their own facebooking during the day, causing their companies productivity as a whole to operate lower than optimal. (that's a business guess, but I'm pretty good at those).

so anyway, if anyone hears anything from a dealer or snags an email or catches a change in the genuine site or a face book or tweet update - let us all know ASAP, I know I will!

[jasondavis48108]

UPDATE: I havn't heard anythig new about this since my last post

It does seem like it would be easy for them to do some sort of weekly update via facebook or twitter. Maybe they figure most folks don't want to be reminded of the fact that the situation sucks and they are all in the dark or maybe they are worried that constantly reminding folks that they don't know when the scooters will be released will make them look bad, I really don't know. Makes me wonder exactly how many folks have put deposits down on these scooters, could be a whole lot of frustrated folks out there I suppose. At least the folks here have a good comunity with connections to some of the dealers around the country. My guess is that any news will be posted here very shortly after anyone is made aware of it.

[Gary Sebben]

I know I'm not supposed to use the "a" word. But you know those people who are defending Genuine are truly speaking from fan position when you step out of this form and talk to the people in your life who aren't fans of anything, scooter or otherwise. Normal people think this situation is a joke. Normal people think a company needs to make people happy with more than a monthly update when they've put money down and waited for product without buying something else. Normal people don't think you should put up with crap like this from any company.

This conversation is useless here as is any conversation that questions the status quo in a forum that is dedicated to it. The fans don't tolerate it. They may be intelligent people in any other case, but with their true love they laps.

What I think really should happen is people who are upset with Genuine should be able to vent in their own thread without the fans coming in and basically, from an upset consumer stand point, trolling. There is no point in trying to "defuse" the topic. People aren't going to feel better because of your intervention. They obviously feel worse, especially when miscategorizing terms like "hater" and "whiner" are thrown around. Let people whine and vent in peace here and then they'll come and join you in the Genuine love threads later.

[jmazza]

I know I'm not supposed to use the "a" word. But you know those people who are defending Genuine are truly speaking from fan position when you step out of this form and talk to the people in your life who aren't fans of anything, scooter or otherwise. Normal people think this situation is a joke. Normal people think a company needs to make people happy with more than a monthly update when they've put money down and waited for product without buying something else. Normal people don't think you should put up with crap like this from any company.

This conversation is useless here as is any conversation that questions the status quo in a forum that is dedicated to it. The fans don't tolerate it. They may be intelligent people in any other case, but with their true love they laps.

What I think really should happen is people who are upset with Genuine should be able to vent in their own thread without the fans coming in and basically, from an upset consumer stand point, trolling. There is no point in trying to "defuse" the topic. People aren't going to feel better because of your intervention. They obviously feel worse, especially when miscategorizing terms like "hater" and "whiner" are thrown around. Let people whine and vent in peace here and then they'll come and join you in the Genuine love threads later.

Gary, you're right, this conversation is fairly useless. There have been some really good posts just above yours that illustrate the stalemate here. There's essentially two sides: those who think Genuine is doing ok at handling this and those who don't. And neither will convince the other, that's true. And we obviously are letting you whine and vent (your words) here... but that doesn't negate other members' right to reply.

Many of the people you are dismissing as simply "fans" of Genuine have been riding scooters for a LONG time. Long before Genuine existed, as a matter of fact. So could it be possible that they are not speaking as "fans" but as long time scooter people who have seen how these things go and understand that in the tiny little world of scooters, things aren't always "normal?" I'm not one of those by the way... my Buddy is my first scooter and I've only been at it for just under three years. But I view a lot of these posts as much an attempt to educate as to placate.

As just about EVERYONE here has said, it's totally reasonable and within your right to be upset and vent and whine. But to ask for your own thread to do it in where no one is allowed to upset your pity party? Sounds like you need to make your own forum. Which, as another point of education, has been done here before as well.

[Gary Sebben]

So could it be possible that they are not speaking as "fans" but as long time scooter people who have seen how these things go and understand that in the tiny little world of scooters, things aren't always "normal?" I'm not one of those by the way... my Buddy is my first scooter and I've only been at it for just under three years. But I view a lot of these posts as much an attempt to educate as to placate.

I don't need to be "educated", thank you. That so amazingly insulting. I'm a 30 year old man. I've made many major purchases in my time. So it's not just Genuine who deserves a pass, but the entire Scooter Business? How is the scooter business different than any other? How is Genuine different than Best Buy? What makes them less accountable? Maybe its not the so-called newcomers who need to be educated. Maybe its the old timers who have been taken for granted by the scooter business for ages who need to be educated on how to react to being treated like crap.

[jmazza]

So could it be possible that they are not speaking as "fans" but as long time scooter people who have seen how these things go and understand that in the tiny little world of scooters, things aren't always "normal?" I'm not one of those by the way... my Buddy is my first scooter and I've only been at it for just under three years. But I view a lot of these posts as much an attempt to educate as to placate.

I don't need to be "educated", thank you. That so amazingly insulting. I'm a 30 year old man. I've made many major purchases in my time. So it's not just Genuine who deserves a pass, but the entire Scooter Business? How is the scooter business different than any other? How is Genuine different than Best Buy? What makes them less accountable? Maybe its not the so-called newcomers who need to be educated. Maybe its the old timers who have been taken for granted by the scooter business for ages who need to be educated on how to react to being treated like crap.

Ok Gary. Sorry for insulting you. I forgot that all learning ends at 30.

Asking how Genuine is different than Best Buy shows a lot of ignorance, and is an absurd question, in my opinion. But I'll let you get back to your rant and simply restate that you won't get your "whining and venting only" thread in an open forum like this one.

[Gary Sebben]

Asking how Genuine is different than Best Buy shows a lot of ignorance, and is an absurd question, in my opinion.

How is it ignorant and absurd? Because you don't want to answer it? How is one reseller less culpable to its customers than another? Why would I give one a pass and not another? Because its smaller? Because it's scooters? Maybe I should have said Radio Shack since they buy other people's stuff and rebrand it in their own packaging like Genuine does. Would that be less absurd?

[jmazza]

Asking how Genuine is different than Best Buy shows a lot of ignorance, and is an absurd question, in my opinion.

How is it ignorant and absurd? Because you don't want to answer it?

No, it's because I don't think you care about the answer. But here goes. They are not just smaller, they are not even a speck in comparison. I'm not (nor has ANYONE) saying that they shouldn't update customers and act above board. Personally, the amount of update they've given would be enough for me. I'd be frustrated, but I would be ok knowing they are as frustrated as I am at the situation. But I'll say again that you have your right to disagree. But what's absurd is to compare an industry leading big-box retailer, with hundreds of thousands of employees, thousands of stores, and millions and millions in profits, a retailer which sells the kinds of consumer electronics that just about everyone in the country buys with a scooter company which sells, wait for it, scooters.

Scooters, Gary.

It's a very small, fickle market that affords small profit. It works slowly, at the mercy of scooters and parts that arrive when they want on container ships from Taiwan or India (just wait until you lay your Stella down and need a part- can't wait for that thread). It's not got a huge inventory on those tiny scooter shop showroom floors nor does it have the kind of muscle to push the EPA to hurry up. It closes on Sundays and Mondays and doesn't put stuff on sale very often.

Is it unfortunate and a pain in the ass that this is how it is? You bet. But my point in learning from people who have tried to throw some rational opposing views in here (that you dismiss as apologists and fans) is that you aren't going to change the industry and you're not going to be happy with much in this scooter world if all you want to do is rant and whine and you want us all to shut up and watch you in your own private thread.

I'll say this again because I feel like if I don't we'll go round and round: I'm not trying to change your mind about your situation. It's totally your right to be pissed, etc. I hope this all gets worked out soon and everyone gets their Stella and a little something extra and we can start reading first ride reports. But I thought I'd offer my views when you started talking about "normal" people which implies that the Genuine fans, as you call us, must have a screw loose. I'm pretty much regretting that choice at this point.

I know you don't want my advice but if you were to ask I'd say you should pull your deposit and move on. But I don't know what you are looking for from this forum. You wanted a poll, you got a poll. You complained about the people who were responding. Eric made this thread and now you're upset because, dammit, people are disagreeing and trying to give you answers and you're 30 years old so you don't need them, and why doesn't everyone who disagrees just leave this thread and on and on and on.

Where does it stop?

[Silver Streak]

Asking how Genuine is different than Best Buy shows a lot of ignorance, and is an absurd question, in my opinion.

How is it ignorant and absurd? Because you don't want to answer it?

No, it's because I don't think you care about the answer. But here goes. They are not just smaller, they are not even a speck in comparison. I'm not (nor has ANYONE) saying that they shouldn't update customers and act above board. Personally, the amount of update they've given would be enough for me. I'd be frustrated, but I would be ok knowing they are as frustrated as I am at the situation. But I'll say again that you have your right to disagree. But what's absurd is to compare an industry leading big-box retailer, with hundreds of thousands of employees, thousands of stores, and millions and millions in profits, a retailer which sells the kinds of consumer electronics that just about everyone in the country buys with a scooter company which sells, wait for it, scooters.

Scooters, Gary.

It's a very small, fickle market that affords small profit. It works slowly, at the mercy of scooters and parts that arrive when they want on container ships from Taiwan or India (just wait until you lay your Stella down and need a part- can't wait for that thread). It's not got a huge inventory on those tiny scooter shop showroom floors nor does it have the kind of muscle to push the EPA to hurry up. It closes on Sundays and Mondays and doesn't put stuff on sale very often.

Is it unfortunate and a pain in the ass that this is how it is? You bet. But my point in learning from people who have tried to throw some rational opposing views in here (that you dismiss as apologists and fans) is that you aren't going to change the industry and you're not going to be happy with much in this scooter world if all you want to do is rant and whine and you want us all to shut up and watch you in your own private thread.

I'll say this again because I feel like if I don't we'll go round and round: I'm not trying to change your mind about your situation. It's totally your right to be pissed, etc. I hope this all gets worked out soon and everyone gets their Stella and a little something extra and we can start reading first ride reports. But I thought I'd offer my views when you started talking about "normal" people which implies that the Genuine fans, as you call us, must have a screw loose. I'm pretty much regretting that choice at this point.

I know you don't want my advice but if you were to ask I'd say you should pull your deposit and move on. But I don't know what you are looking for from this forum. You wanted a poll, you got a poll. You complained about the people who were responding. Eric made this thread and now you're upset because, dammit, people are disagreeing and trying to give you answers and you're 30 years old so you don't need them, and why doesn't everyone who disagrees just leave this thread and on and on and on.

Where does it stop?

A most eloquent post! Right on the money.

[PeterC]

Amen. Now, can we talk about the wait for the Genuine Classic Cruiser?

[jasondavis48108]

Amen. Now, can we talk about the wait for the Genuine Classic Cruiser?

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I for one figured out how to wait for the cruiser, I bought an sh150 so now I won't have the money for another scooter for at least a few years Pretty clever huh.

[BuddyRaton]

Amen. Now, can we talk about the wait for the Genuine Classic Cruiser?

TROUBLE MAKER!


The scooter business is very different from the electronics business.

For scooters the US is not the prime target market. Heck...Vespa totally pulled out of the US for several years and Malaguti has been gone for awhile now.

There are several models from major manufactures that are never made available in th US. Its just not worth it to them.


Shipping, customs and EPA problems are not limited to Genuine. Check out some threads on MV regarding parts availability. Vintage Vespa parts are often more available tha modern Vespa parts...go figure.

I need to have a clutch bearing changed on my Burgman (thank goodness I got the extended warranty!) and have been told it will be 4 to 6 weeks for the parts to come in. And as far as availability I don't think there were any Suzuki Burgman Executives imported for sale this year.


My best advice is to learn and embrace the term "Scooter Time"!

I am a scooterist...and I am far from "normal"!

[PeterC]

I am a typical American consumer, "I want what I want, and I want it NOW" (falling on floor and having tantrum). In fact, when I confronted the reality of Genuine's proposed Classic Cruiser, I went and bought a Vespa GTS 250, and had it fitted with the usual accessories and and a Pirate Upholstery seat. It is a lovely machine that will satisfy my needs until Genuine finally does come through with its Cruiser. Then, assuming that the Cruiser does have the charm of its Teutonic inspirations, I will figure out what to trade in to get it (I have a 2-scooter-only scooter garage, and a wife who will not accept the living room as a scooter garage). Ah, it's a tough life!

[BuddyRaton]

You need a bigger garage!

[jasondavis48108]

I just need a garage

[Silver Streak]

I just need a garage

Me too! Besides my existing Vespa LX, I have the Stella 4T on order, and I'm looking longingly at the Vespa LXV150i.e..

I think I see a shed in my future!

[jasondavis48108]

I live in a CoOp that won't let us have shed over 6ft tall otherwise I'd already have one

[Gary Sebben]

jmazza, it sounds like they have the same problems as any other business, but worse for them because they don't have the name recognition to keep people coming back despite their lapses. If I were Genuine I wouldn't be so dependent on the kindness of my fans looking the other way.

Second, I didn't say people shouldn't respond in a public forum, I'm just wondering why people, most of which don't even have money down on the 4t, feel the need to say anything. What does it accomplish besides provocation? Its not like one or two people said "but mabe this is why..." scores of people are writing about how Genuine should be given a break and insulting people at the same time.

Remember, my pole was shut down by a mod who didn't have a deposit on a Stella. Another mod opened this thread, but kept reaffirming that he didn't agree with people who complained. The whole establishment on board is negative towards this and very verbal. Its been an uphill battle for people on the "wrong" side of this and that rubs me the wrong way.

You know, my feeling on a real community is that people support each other on their pet peeves and problems because you never know what troubles will hit you and you'll need support. Maybe your Buddy will have something faulty in it and you won't be able to get service. Would you want me to call you a whiner then?

[Lostmycage]

jmazza, it sounds like they have the same problems as any other business, but worse for them because they don't have the name recognition to keep people coming back despite their lapses. If I were Genuine I wouldn't be so dependent on the kindness of my fans looking the other way.

Very true, but if Genuine was run by throwing money at every problem any time something went wrong, the company would be bankrupt rather swiftly. It's a small company and scooters aren't exactly lucrative. The spring fling was there to sell scooters that had been sitting around because of the bad economy and to help clear old stock off dealer floors so that they could afford to purchase new models. If they introduced a model with all kinds of incentives, discounts and rebates you'd be on your own for any warranty service because they'd be out of business the next month.

Second, I didn't say people shouldn't respond in a public forum, I'm just wondering why people, most of which don't even have money down on the 4t, feel the need to say anything. What does it accomplish besides provocation? Its not like one or two people said "but mabe this is why..." scores of people are writing about how Genuine should be given a break and insulting people at the same time.

You insisted that those without a deposit shouldn't participate in the discussion then reacted rather negatively when people who have experience with Genuine or similar experiences tried to offer up some reasons, anecdotes and alternating views. That's when others started in on the topic.

Remember, my pole was shut down by a mod who didn't have a deposit on a Stella. Another mod opened this thread, but kept reaffirming that he didn't agree with people who complained. The whole establishment on board is negative towards this and very verbal. Its been an uphill battle for people on the "wrong" side of this and that rubs me the wrong way.

I shut it down and I haven't changed my reasoning on the subject. Eric didn't say that he disagreed with people complaining (he opened this thread so people could voice their concerns and frustrations); he said he didn't agree with the sentiment of that poll. It was that semantics bit mentioned earlier. He also said that he didn't see that complaining would help much. There's no right or wrong side. There's a very small number of people who are taking this delay (that's out of Genuine's hands) as a personal insult and then reacting violently when those who've been through it before try to chime in, many of whom started off very sympathetic (even if not in this thread). You can see where that back and forth has led us. The forum consists of fans of Genuine. I'm not really sure what's so surprising about getting a negative reaction after insulting a crowd. If you think that's bad, go to the Modern Vespa board and let them know why you think the brand sucks, or walk into a Harley dealership and let them know why you think their bikes are inferior. Go kick a line of chromed out cruisers in front of a biker bar. You've got to take into consideration the crowd that's hearing the speech.

You know, my feeling on a real community is that people support each other on their pet peeves and problems because you never know what troubles will hit you and you'll need support. Maybe your Buddy will have something faulty in it and you won't be able to get service. Would you want me to call you a whiner then?

It's a community, it's acting exactly like a community. As far as support... look around the board. That's most of what we do here! People trying to help other people, offering ideas, advice, support, experiences and even spare parts or contacts for dealers who have needed parts in stock.

Gary, I invite you to take a step back and look around the site a little more. If you take a calmer approach, you might find a lot more sympathy that you might have even hoped for. I for one sympathize with your situation. You'll find a lot of people here do as well, including a number of those who you've written off as apologists. Scooters are generally ridden by those who take a calmer, slower and more relaxed coarse through life. That's their charm... it's the same charm that you'll find with this forum, if you give it a chance. I don't think your experience here has shown you much in that department. You have seen people get defensive over a brand that they love. Give the place a chance to show you the other side of being a fan (granted actually having one will change your outlook on that one - which hopefully will be soon).

So, Welcome to Modern Buddy. We're really excited, even jealous, that you're lined up to get one of the first new 4T Stellas (which most members are quite fond of) and we really, truly sympathize with your frustrations on it's delays. Any of us would be just as frustrated. I am personally looking forward to hearing people's first ride reports once they get the darn things. You're still here which shows that you're still interested in the new Stella despite the frustrations. Either that or you're banking on Genuine throwing in some Red Hots with that first order of a rack or crash bars.

[JoshWED]

Only some of the moderators around here act like moderators.

[jmazza]

Only some of the moderators around here act like moderators.

Josh if you have a problem with moderation or a specific moderator, please PM Eric, our administrator. His user name is ericalm.

[JoshWED]

Thanks! Still learning the ways of the forum!

[EvilTweety]

5 months ago, Feb 4th to be exact, Genuine started this snowball with a Facebook post that the 4T's were coming. I immediately put my money in the game and put down a deposit. My dealer, I assume acting on information from Genuine (and I know about assumptions), expected to have them in late April or early May. I understand how sourcing a product from an overseas vendor can have delays, sometimes significant delays. However, I do not understand, the complete lack of communication with the customer. The last public communication I can find was at the end of May, then nothing until they finally announced the EPA issue. My gripe is that for 5 months they ignored customers. During that 5 months I sent emails asking for any kind of update, no response. Posting to their Facebook page asking for updates are ignored or deleted. This lack of communication is what has bred the anger and disgust many here have expressed. I do not expect any restitution for the delay. I only expect to have my questions on the status of my order answered in a timely manner.

[polianarchy]

Thanks! Still learning the ways of the forum!

How long have you been on the internet? Less than 18 posts in, and you're already openly trolling the moderators. Don't hate just because Genuine gave us free Stella 4Ts. We earned those scooters fair and square, with tens of months of barely hard work.

[JoshWED]

Never used a forum before, don't know what trolling is, and now I'm getting attacked...by a moderator. Appologist doesn't even come close...

[Wheelz]

say what ya got to say Josh, it hasn't stopped you before now has it? You called them out first admit your intent or deny what you meant to do there.
I really don't care what ya think of me, but ya poke a bear with a stick, ya can't cry when it bites ya, dig?

[jasondavis48108]

Thanks! Still learning the ways of the forum!

How long have you been on the internet? Less than 18 posts in, and you're already openly trolling the moderators. Don't hate just because Genuine gave us free Stella 4Ts. We earned those scooters fair and square, with tens of months of barely hard work.

Genuine only gave you moderators a free 4T Stella? All of us apologists got the Genuine crusier that most folks don't know is even out yet

[polianarchy]

Never used a forum before, don't know what trolling is, and now I'm getting attacked...by a moderator. Appologist doesn't even come close...

O, please! That was not an attack. This is: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=trolling

And in case you are totally serious about never using a forum before? Read this: Announcement: Welcome / Posting Guidelines -- PLEASE READ

[polianarchy]

Genuine only gave you moderators a free 4T Stella? All of us apologists got the Genuine crusier that most folks don't know is even out yet

THIS INJUSTICE CANNOT STAND! I'm gonna get on the horn with the Head Honcho at Genuine & start apologizing PROFUSELY.

[DanteG]

Back in '08, many if not most scooters being brought in to the US were held up at customs for much the same reasons. Many MB members, both current and past, awaited the arrival of their Buddy. There were multiple threads that pretty much said the same thing ... "I want it!"

Complaints were made regarding missed arrival dates, lack of communication, loss of riding time within the season, cost of gas, and any other kvetch that could be made. Those who had bikes offered sympathy and advice : chill out, the scoot is worth waiting for - and please stop clogging the board with "I want it" rants.

Genuine had no notice regarding anticipated ship dates on the website, and refered all calls/emails on the subject to the local dealer.

Does any of this sound familiar ?

Genuine is a small company with a great product and a not-so-great communicatons network. Silence does not breed confidence. I don't know how many of those awaiting the 4t are first-time scooter buyers, and how many of the others may be first-time Genuine buyers. When I was in a similar situation, I was new to scoots, and not sure that this was how things were meant to work.

Local dealers could also step into the breach with an occasional update by a mass email to those waiting. Even if it's not good news, acknowledgement of the situation would take very little time and perhaps go some way in creating some good will.

MB is a great site, offering advice, information and community to Genuine riders and the scoot world as a whole. The mods work harder than one may think to maintain an air of civility while allowing differences to be aired.

It's no secret that both Genuine and individual dealers use MB as a selling tool. It does, however, remain an independent forum, not a house organ for Genuine. The mods seem more than willing to allow problems with Genuine and their products to be posted (do a quick search in any of the group threads). The problem seems to emerge when the same problem dominates every thread, or when multiple threads for the same grevience arise.

In the end, I waited it out and got a truly great machine that has brought me many hours of happiness. MB is a good resourse for information, both positive and negative, about Genuine scoots (and the occasional recipe or quantum physics lesson). So, to all who wait - chill, it's worth it. Feel free to use this thead to say "I want it !"

[jasondavis48108]

Genuine only gave you moderators a free 4T Stella? All of us apologists got the Genuine crusier that most folks don't know is even out yet

THIS INJUSTICE CANNOT STAND! I'm gonna get on the horn with the Head Honcho at Genuine & start apologizing PROFUSELY.

You know I'm not sure if you'll be able to get ahold of him, I've heard he has horrible communication skills.

[Lovelandstella]

Genuine is a small company with a great product and a not-so-great communicatons network. Silence does not breed confidence....

+1

When I was in a similar situation, I was new to scoots, and not sure that this was how things were meant to work.

This is how I feel. it's my 1st "New" scoot. and Genuine's 1st impression on me as a customer.

Local dealers could also step into the breach with an occasional update by a mass email to those waiting. Even if it's not good news, acknowledgement of the situation would take very little time and perhaps go some way in creating some good will.

I agree!
...
but if all of us (Including Genuine) just accept the fact that Genuine sucks at communication, (as you said) then maybe we just learn to accept that "they will never get good at it".

course, the not so hidden message for the competition to steal away all 1st time "new" scooter buyers from genuine, is to simply utilize regular communication.

... Feel free to use this thead[sic] to say "I want it !"

I want it! I really Want it!

good post, DanteG! good stuff.

[PeterC]

Without getting into any political discussion, there are many examples of individuals who are superb communicators but never come up with an acceptable "product." Genuine has great products. If their communication skills are sub-par, oh well. Thank you, I'll ride the scooter when it arrives, not the p.r. It's unfortunate that the federal f__kmeisters have delayed the delivery of the new 4T Stella, but that's what they do best, and they don't give a damn about the CARB or EPA public image. This deceased equine has been beaten beyond recognition. Enough already!

[Wheelz]

"Deceased Equine"

Check out the big brain on PeterC

[adamj]

So that's how moderators act around here, no wonder the general population is up in arms.