Modern Buddy

the extra $600?

I don't want to beat a dead horse but I went to the dealer today and they had a nice little black 2T sitting there for $3,199 that was just calling my name, but I'm wondering if there is really that big a difference for the additional 600 bucks.

I don't mind spending the extra cash. I don't even mind doing a bit of tinkering on the 2T (this actually sounds like fun), but I sure would rather get 600 in chrome and accessories if the 4T doesn't really provide that big a difference over the 2T.

I was also looking at the Buddy 170 but I don't really like any of the colors and I really do love the retro look of the Stella scooters.

Are these prices OTD (out the door)? I'm seeing a lot of new 2T Stellas than what you're being quoted.

As far as 2T during 4T: The 2T will probably be a lot more finnicky, you'll need to tweak it sometimes as its a million year old technology (ok, maybe not THAT old). The 4T is more modernized, reportedly gets better MPG's and is faster stock (though there are more performance parts for the 2T). Anywho, this is all just off the top of my head and may not be completely accurate. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

laxer wrote:Are these prices OTD (out the door)? I'm seeing a lot of new 2T Stellas than what you're being quoted.

As far as 2T during 4T: The 2T will probably be a lot more finnicky, you'll need to tweak it sometimes as its a million year old technology (ok, maybe not THAT old).

$3,199 was the sticker price so there will be a good bit more before it's out-the-door.

I don't mind tweaking but I just don't know how much tweaking would be required with the 2T. I'd hate to get stranded somewhere because I missed an important tweak here or there.

Well, I'll put my two cents into this; My opinion, for what it's worth, (not much) is that you're not only going to pay more for the four stroke up front, you are also going to pay more for parts and service. Just something to take into consideration.

MOD MIKE wrote:Well, I'll put my two cents into this; My opinion, for what it's worth, (not much) is that you're not only going to pay more for the four stroke up front, you are also going to pay more for parts and service. Just something to take into consideration.

Thanks Mike, being new that is one of my main concerns. I don't mind tweaking, and as I said once before, that actually seems like fun. Tweaking seems like it would make the owner better connected to their scooter, if that make sense. My only concern was how much tweaking; I don't want to spend hours each month working on the thing when I could be riding.

Having 5 years of owner experience with 2 Stella 2 strokes, the most "tweaking" I have ever done is charge the battery, change a flat tire, and adjust the idle on the carb. I bought myself a Haynes repair manual and realized I could do almost all repairs myself; and in the process, saved my self a lot of money by not taking it to the dealer for service. This is part of the fun of Owning a Stella 2 stroke; you kind of build a realationship with it. Of course, there are two sides to every story; it would be great to hear from some new 4 stroke owners. I guess we'll have to wait a while for that to happen.

Mulliganal,

According to Genuines website the MSRP for the 4T Stella is 3,599.00(Under the specs tab) Are you adding 200.00 on for OTD prices? Please clarify.

Thanks.

MOD MIKE wrote:...you're not only going to pay more for the four stroke up front, you are also going to pay more for parts and service...

What?! pay more for service? Like the dealer would charge you more per hour depending on what scooter you have, or something? Oh, wait, actually, I can only guess that you mean "pay someone else to fix it" vs "fix it yourself"... a somewhat valid point, but actually kind of a moot point considering this:
Mulliganal, the 2T comes with a 1 year warranty vs the 4T 2 year unlimited mile warranty.
= something goes wrong in 2 years, and you don't pay for squat. thats a factor to consider.
both come with a 1 year roadside assistance(tow).
search around this site and you'll see lots of pros and cons to help you out in your decision.

well lets see you dont have engine oil and a filter to change on a 2 stroke

yes you have to buy oil for a 2 stroke but dont have to worry about the change or the oil filter

and by the looks of it there is extra work to get to every thing on a 4 stroke over the 2 stroke so more down time for the simple things

sure you will have to replace the ring on a 2 stroke before a 4 stroke but again you have the labor factor on the 4 stroke

not to mention more parts that can wear on 4 stroke then on a 2 stroke

and again its more labor intensive to replalce all these parts

and when you do have an issue you have more things to check in the trouble shooting

BuddyLicious wrote:Mulliganal,

According to Genuines website the MSRP for the 4T Stella is 3,599.00(Under the specs tab) Are you adding 200.00 on for OTD prices? Please clarify.

Thanks.

The $200 is for all the additional dealer costs, destination costs I'm guessing is one.

It's true you don't have to replace the oil and filter on a 2T as you do on a 4T. However you do have to add oil routinely in the 2T's oil reservoir and never allow the the reservoir to go low or empty.So apples to apples both scoots come out pretty much equal maintenance wise.In other words both require your attention equally just in different ways.

Are you banging your head on the wall yet? Good luck.

The 2T IS an old well established technology with certain advantages and dissadvantages, all of which have been explored, exploited, defined, worked around, modified etc...in excruating detail.

The Stella 4T is a new motor design on a modified P frame. Is this a bad thing? I don't think so, however the track record is very short, they just haven't been around long enough for any quirks and mods to be well known and I'm not aware of many hard core tuners that have torn one apart yet.

That being said...If I wanted one (I don't) I would not hesitate to buy a 4T Stella.

BuddyLicious wrote:Are you banging your head on the wall yet? Good luck.

Dang BuddyLicious, I didn't think anyone noticed me doing that.

But it sure is a back and forth, yes then no-then back to yes process when choosing a scooter; at least it has been for me since I reasearch the heck out of things expecially $3K-$4K things.

Stella 2T
Great old-school look
Easy to tweak and maintain
Good price 'now'
Like the idea of shifting
*Bad smell
*Less reliable (???)
*Shorter Life
*noisy
*Only 1 year maintenance

Stella 4T
Great old-school look
Like the idea of shifting
New technology
More reliable (??? TBD)
2 Year maintenance
*Higher price $$$$
*Tweaking and maintenance not as easy

Buddy 170i
Fast
Reliable
Mid range price
Fuel injection
*Not crazy about colors, would love stealth black
*Like old-school scooter look better (showing my age I guess), but the brown is growing on me.

Did I miss anything?

Mulliganal wrote: Did I miss anything?

Stella 2T = Not available new in California

Stella 4T = Available in California, finally!

Your not necessarily stuck with the colors offered for the 170i.Some options.

1.Paint your panels or have em painted

2.Talk with a Dealer before or at time of purchase as a condition of sale,you want a panel swap with the black buddy 125 panels or if available (Dealers floor) the Black Jack panels. Of course no cost to you.

3.You can find someone ahead or right after purchase that would want to do an even up swap with you.I imagine it wouldn't take long to find a willing person.

Again GOOD luck.

My 02 is VERY reliable. My 04, not so much. I think the key is in how you take care of the bike.

Redcatjack wrote:

Mulliganal wrote: Did I miss anything?

Stella 2T = Not available new in California

Stella 4T = Available in California, finally!

Do you already have possession of your 4T?

I love my 2005 (purchased new, 2006) Stella. No problems since new and Sito+ rejetting. It's still highly reliable. If you don't want to mess with putting oil in its own special reservoir, or having people riding behind you whining about your smoke and aroma (the perfume of the gods), by all means buy a new Stella 4T. If you live in California, this is the only way (other than buying a classic Vespa) you will come close to the classic shifty experience.

ericalm wrote:

Redcatjack wrote:

Mulliganal wrote: Did I miss anything?

Stella 2T = Not available new in California

Stella 4T = Available in California, finally!

Do you already have possession of your 4T?

yes he does - as of saturday last.

FWIW, 2T Stellas with fairly low miles are somewhat common in CA now and any more than 3 years old can be registered here without much trouble.

In the pro-con list above, I think smell is a little unfair. I was afraid the 2T would make me smell like a weedeater, but it has not happened at all.

Sometimes I let mine run a bit, like several minutes, while I am getting ready to go for the first time in a given day. When that happens, I can smell my bike. But, I get no smell while I ride and I certainly smell car exhaust quite a bit more than I smell my little bit of exhaust.
Now, I am running some Motul Oil right now and have been playing with different synthetics, but the smoke and smell was only blue and strong when I ran Lucas semi-synth.

So, there may be plenty of pros to the 4t above my 09, but she doesnt really smell...

craho wrote:In the pro-con list above, I think smell is a little unfair. I was afraid the 2T would make me smell like a weedeater, but it has not happened at all.

Sometimes I let mine run a bit, like several minutes, while I am getting ready to go for the first time in a given day. When that happens, I can smell my bike. But, I get no smell while I ride and I certainly smell car exhaust quite a bit more than I smell my little bit of exhaust.
Now, I am running some Motul Oil right now and have been playing with different synthetics, but the smoke and smell was only blue and strong when I ran Lucas semi-synth.

So, there may be plenty of pros to the 4t above my 09, but she doesnt really smell...

The 2T smell must vary amongst the 2T's.I have read from 2T owners both ways,some say very little and some say a lot. I guess the only way to know is to try out the scoot one is interested in.

We have a dealer with a few two stroke Stellas at $2599 as I recall.

BuddyLicious wrote:

craho wrote:In the pro-con list above, I think smell is a little unfair. I was afraid the 2T would make me smell like a weedeater, but it has not happened at all.

Sometimes I let mine run a bit, like several minutes, while I am getting ready to go for the first time in a given day. When that happens, I can smell my bike. But, I get no smell while I ride and I certainly smell car exhaust quite a bit more than I smell my little bit of exhaust.
Now, I am running some Motul Oil right now and have been playing with different synthetics, but the smoke and smell was only blue and strong when I ran Lucas semi-synth.

So, there may be plenty of pros to the 4t above my 09, but she doesnt really smell...

The 2T smell must vary amongst the 2T's.I have read from 2T owners both ways,some say very little and some say a lot. I guess the only way to know is to try out the scoot one is interested in.

You know, I remember somewhere someone mentioning the quality and make-up of gas being different in different parts of the country...duh. This would/could contribute to a different smell as well.
Also, the 2 stroke oil is a huge factor.
And new cat-converters would probably smell differently than the older bikes that we less de-tuned. ...but with that, I have just jumped beyond both my expertise and experience.

I noticed a bit of smoke yesterday as I was getting ready to ride and I remembered this post and thought that I may have overstated a little. But, so far, when I get home from a day of work (I'm a Pastor and I work at coffee shops alot) and stella, I smell like outside, like I sat on the deck all day, not like I used my weedeater for 2 hours.

Anyway, all I would ever say is i was afraid I was going to smell like 2-stroke smoke and have been really pleased that my bike does not stink me up that way.

ericalm wrote:

Redcatjack wrote:

Mulliganal wrote: Did I miss anything?

Stella 2T = Not available new in California

Stella 4T = Available in California, finally!

Do you already have possession of your 4T?

Where the hell have I been?!? Yep and it's a beauty. All the rain we've been having since has put a big crimp in my riding time since I prefer to ride my GTV when it's wet out.

Will come back with initial riding thoughts and photos and such soon.

ericalm wrote:FWIW, 2T Stellas with fairly low miles are somewhat common in CA now and any more than 3 years old can be registered here without much trouble.

True, but they wouldn't be new or come with a warranty. What I like about the 4T is brand new out of the box, shifty. In CA, it's the only option.

Has one orange (!) 2t,"discounted" to $2999. No thanks...

jmkjr72 wrote:well lets see you dont have engine oil and a filter to change on a 2 stroke

yes you have to buy oil for a 2 stroke but dont have to worry about the change or the oil filter

and by the looks of it there is extra work to get to every thing on a 4 stroke over the 2 stroke so more down time for the simple things

sure you will have to replace the ring on a 2 stroke before a 4 stroke but again you have the labor factor on the 4 stroke

not to mention more parts that can wear on 4 stroke then on a 2 stroke

and again its more labor intensive to replalce all these parts

and when you do have an issue you have more things to check in the trouble shooting

And no valve adjustments

BuddyLicious wrote:It's true you don't have to replace the oil and filter on a 2T as you do on a 4T. However you do have to add oil routinely in the 2T's oil reservoir and never allow the the reservoir to go low or empty.So apples to apples both scoots come out pretty much equal maintenance wise.In other words both require your attention equally just in different ways.

Are you banging your head on the wall yet? Good luck.

There is a big diference between a 4T oil change and adding oil to the resevoir. On the 2 stroke it is...lift seat, open oil bottle, pour in.


On the 4T it is Put the bike on lift or lay on the ground, drain oil, remove filter, put on new filter properly, fill crankcase with proper level of oil, drive to the parts store to dispose of old oil.

BuddyRaton wrote:On the 4T it is Put the bike on lift or lay on the ground, drain oil, remove filter, put on new filter properly, fill crankcase with proper level of oil, drive to the parts store to dispose of old oil.

That's pretty much the process for any scooter that doesn't burn oil. Not so much a negative as a fact of life for the foreseeable future of new scooters. Maybe it's just a fact of life I'm used to; I have no issues with changing my oil!

ericalm wrote:

BuddyRaton wrote:On the 4T it is Put the bike on lift or lay on the ground, drain oil, remove filter, put on new filter properly, fill crankcase with proper level of oil, drive to the parts store to dispose of old oil.

That's pretty much the process for any scooter that doesn't burn oil. Not so much a negative as a fact of life for the foreseeable future of new scooters. Maybe it's just a fact of life I'm used to; I have no issues with changing my oil!

Oh I don't have a problem with 4T oil changes either, I just don't think that it is "pretty much equal maintenance wise" to refilling the 2T oil tank.

On the plus side the 4T will probably run many more miles before needing a rebuild.

I say probably because I have a friend with a Kymco 50 with over 20,000 miles. He was starting to lose powe and asked me what I thought. I told him that it probably needed a rebuild but that I would try the easy (and cheap) stuff first. Carb clean, air filter belt rollers (He needed them no matter what)

He did that and checked compression and it rode like new. I think the synthetic 2T oils, although expensive, are really doing their job much better than the older oils and greatly extending the life of 2T motors.

Is the 4T Stella worth it? I think this would have been a different discussion if no one had seen a 4T Stella. The 4T Bajaj compared to the 2T Stella suggested that the 4T 150 would be something of a dog compared to the 2T. Well, now we've seen, and gotten to ride, the 4T Stella. It is cleaner (as expected), but it also appears to be quicker than its 2T brother, rather than slower as expected. Also better balanced, and it gets spectacular (not just good) fuel mileage. And it is clear that the 4T is the Stella for the future. I don't mean to badmouth the 2T Stella - it is a fine manual scooter. It just appears that the 4T is a better one and that suggests to me that it is worth a few hundred extra dollars to the new buyer that wants to ride a classic style, manual scooter. (just my opinion, of course)

Dooglas...I agree...pretty much.

I think the 4T is the way to go for someone that wants to stay generally stock, because lets admit it, the stock 2T needs at least a few modifications to get it into a good configuration whereas the 4T appears to do quite well right out of the crate.

If you're looking to tinker, tune, and modify I think the 2T is the way to go.

So it really depends on what you want out of the scooter...a jump on and go for a good ride...or tear down motors, kit, modify and make stupid high HP torque and /or acceleration (with the occasional sieze )

I don't think either deceision is right or wrong, just what the buyer is looking for.