2009 Stella 2t or 2005 Vespa ET2 2t.

germ · Post by **germ** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 3:40 pm

I was just given a 2005 Vespa ET2 50CC 2 stroke with only 280 miles. Its near mint condition. I am considering trading it in for a 2009 Stella 2 stroke while they are on sale and still showroom condition. I guess I'm wondering if I should mod the ET2 or get a Stella. The Vespa ET2 really lacks power. I'm not sure if adding a 70cc kit will really make a difference or not. I live in Colorado so there are definitely hills. Any advice would be helpful in making a decision.

Howardr · Post by **Howardr** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 3:55 pm

Get the Stella. The additional 100 cc will be invaluable for climbing the hills.

Howard

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 3:56 pm

My personal choice would be for the larger engine. In my opinion, going for a scooter with less power/speed than you think you need and then modding it to try to bridge the gap is not a good plan. It adds significant cost and reduces reliability. One other thing to think about. The ET2 is a CVT and the Stella is a manual shift scooter. They are different beasts and each is a very specific choice. If you want a shifter then go with the Stella. If the CVT appeals to you, consider a Buddy. Similar price, quicker, and IMO a better build.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 3:59 pm

Also consider tha a 2005 with such low mileage has been sitting...a lot. Probably gonna need a carb rebuild and possibly seals.

germ · Post by **germ** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 4:19 pm

I still have a Buddy 50 from the first run that they made. Unrestricted it is a very zippy scooter, but it drops out going uphill and it really hasn't held up that well over the years.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:53 pm

You misunderstood. I meant a 125/150 Buddy. They are available for similar money or cheaper than a Stella. (as I said, I am no particular fan of 50cc scoots for general use)

germ · Post by **germ** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 7:22 pm

I hear you Dooglas. I'm sure the buddy 125 is a nice scoot. Over all I was pleased with my Buddy but would not do it again for many reasons. Its a good entry level scoot but feels like a toy after riding a stella or a vespa. Its not very stable for rising a passenger either and my girlfriend is tiny. I'm looking for something more substantial.

Post by **ericalm** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 7:27 pm

A kitted and modded ET2 can be a screamer off the line, but the top speeds and overall power still won't compare to the Stella.

germ · Post by **germ** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 7:37 pm

Eric, I see that you have a Stella 4 stroke listed. Do you have one? What do you think. I was going to jump into the Stella while they still have a few 2 strokes left at my local dealer but I go back and forth over the 2t vs 4t.

Post by **ericalm** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:14 pm

germ wrote:Eric, I see that you have a Stella 4 stroke listed. Do you have one? What do you think. I was going to jump into the Stella while they still have a few 2 strokes left at my local dealer but I go back and forth over the 2t vs 4t.

I do have a 4T. See my lengthy review here:
topic17786.html

The 4T is proving faster than the 2Ts and many vintage 150s, especially after break in and a little carb adjustment. At this point, the main benefits of the 2T are that there are more performance parts and a much larger knowledge bank on modification and tuning. Otherwise, the 4T is winning a lot of people over for its performance, MPGs and other benefits.

germ · Post by **germ** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:57 pm

Thanks Eric. I'll read your review in full tonight.

I think the only reason I'm considering the Stella right now is that the 2t models are are on sale for $3000 at my local dealer. Seems like a decent price.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:58 pm

germ wrote:Its a good entry level scoot but feels like a toy after riding a stella or a vespa. Its not very stable for rising a passenger either and my girlfriend is tiny.

I agree that the Buddy is not a particularly roomy 2-up scooter. Definitely more room on the Stella.

germ · Post by **germ** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 3:08 am

I have been reading a lot of posts saying that the Stella maxes out at 50MPH. Is that true? My buddy 50 does that without a mod. I mean its de-restricted but nothing else.

DirtyRAT · Post by **DirtyRAT** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 3:15 am

germ wrote:I have been reading a lot of posts saying that the Stella maxes out at 50MPH. Is that true? My buddy 50 does that without a mod. I mean its de-restricted but nothing else.

After 500 miles of varied, break in period driving, I got my Stella 4T up to 55 mph today.

Who knows what will happen after my first major service tomorrow.

Post by **ericalm** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 3:57 am

I could regularly get mine up to (GPS verified) 60mph on flats. Any higher, not so easy without going downhill.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 1:26 pm

germ wrote:I have been reading a lot of posts saying that the Stella maxes out at 50MPH. Is that true? My buddy 50 does that without a mod. I mean its de-restricted but nothing else.

Probably pretty close in stock coinfiguration, dependending on rider weight air pressure etc.

Really not bad for what a 2T Stella is.

If you want more speed and power there is a ton of options from cheap and simple to expensive and complicated.

Mulliganal · Post by **Mulliganal** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 1:48 pm

BuddyRaton wrote:If you want more speed and power there is a ton of options from cheap and simple to expensive and complicated.

I wonder what mods will be available for the 4T in time?

Post by **ericalm** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 3:15 pm

Mulliganal wrote:
BuddyRaton wrote:If you want more speed and power there is a ton of options from cheap and simple to expensive and complicated.
I wonder what mods will be available for the 4T in time?

There are 2 pipes and more coming. A cylinder kit. The transmission mods from a 2T will work as well (speed clutch, etc.).

germ · Post by **germ** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 4:10 pm

Its interesting to me that so many traditional scooter enthusiasts praise the 2t so much and are saying to get a 2t Stella now while you still can. Its really a tough debate. Can anyone give me an educated reason why it is that so many consider the 2t the superior platform for a scooter engine.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 6:14 pm

germ wrote:Its interesting to me that so many traditional scooter enthusiasts praise the 2t so much and are saying to get a 2t Stella now while you still can. Its really a tough debate. Can anyone give me an educated reason why it is that so many consider the 2t the superior platform for a scooter engine.

Actually that's a good question. I don't think I consider the 2T to be superior, but for me they are just plain more fun!

Post by **ericalm** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 6:26 pm

germ wrote:Its interesting to me that so many traditional scooter enthusiasts praise the 2t so much and are saying to get a 2t Stella now while you still can. Its really a tough debate. Can anyone give me an educated reason why it is that so many consider the 2t the superior platform for a scooter engine.

"Superior" is probably not the right word. Traditionalists want to keep things, well, traditional. Believe it or not, in the vintage world, there is actually some disdain/conflict over the Vespa P-series. Some consider it "classic" but not "vintage." Others think it's the third ugliest scooter the company ever built (behind the PK and T5, heh heh heh). Regardless, there are those who enjoy things built pretty much as they have been for decades. I totally understand that, but this is a new scooter that is designed for riding in 2010 while retaining as much of the character of the originals as possible. And, honestly, in terms of riding the only things you'll miss are smell and noise.

There are a few practical reasons to embrace the 2T, as mentioned above. And, honestly, I like the smell and the noise!

Someday I'll own a vintage 2T that will offset much of the benefits of my cleaner scoots.

I'll also add that many who showed initial resistance to the 4T have since changed their minds, including some of the strongest skeptics.

germ · Post by **germ** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 6:56 pm

Yeah, Superior probably is the wrong word but you get the impression that they feel that way.

I just finished reading the review of the 4t. (topic17786.html) very nice review.

One thing that I found very interesting is the lean issue caused by the engine being on the side of a 2t model. Sounds like a much needed modern update. Is it that noticeable on a Stella 2t?

Mulliganal · Post by **Mulliganal** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:01 pm

ericalm wrote:Regardless, there are those who enjoy things built pretty much as they have been for decades. I totally understand that, but this is a new scooter that is designed for riding in 2010 while retaining as much of the character of the originals as possible.

Eric, I've also read that some folks like the 2T because it's easy to modify and repair. While probably not as easy as the 2T do you think the 4T is fairly easy to work on and modify by a reasonably handy average Joe?

desmolicious · Post by **desmolicious** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:35 pm

ericalm wrote: I'll also add that many who showed initial resistance to the 4T have since changed their minds, including some of the strongest skeptics.

Guilty as charged!

I now have a Stella 4T as well as a 2005 Vespa PX.

Which one do I like more? The one I happen to be riding...

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 8:03 pm

ericalm wrote:Believe it or not, in the vintage world, there is actually some disdain/conflict over the Vespa P-series. Some consider it "classic" but not "vintage." Others think it's the third ugliest scooter the company ever built (behind the PK and T5, heh heh heh). Regardless, there are those who enjoy things built pretty much as they have been for decades.

Yeah I'm one of them

But then again I don't consider any Vespa with turn signals to be Vintage!

I do think it is the third ugliest....behind the Cosa and the GTV!

Personally....and this is just my opinion and I will not argue about it, I think the 68 Super Sport SS 180 was the last of the Vintage Vespas. It was the last of the Sport Series and the last of the piston ported motors.

Silver Streak · Post by **Silver Streak** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 8:47 pm

Mulliganal wrote:
ericalm wrote:Regardless, there are those who enjoy things built pretty much as they have been for decades. I totally understand that, but this is a new scooter that is designed for riding in 2010 while retaining as much of the character of the originals as possible.
Eric, I've also read that some folks like the 2T because it's easy to modify and repair. While probably not as easy as the 2T do you think the 4T is fairly easy to work on and modify by a reasonably handy average Joe?

I know you addressed your question to Eric, but I'm not shy about giving my opinion (and, besides, I'll wager I do more wrenching on my own scooters than Eric does).

Of all the more-or-less modern 4T scooters, I'd say the Stella is probably easiest to work on. With the right cowl off, the entire motor is right there and unobstructed: the spark plug, the valve cover, the carb. It has a slide carb, the simplest kind. One screw gets you inside the gear selector box, just like the 2T. The cable adjustments are easy to get at, as is the oil fill and drain plug. The electrical system is relatively simple, and -- being air-cooled -- there is almost no plumbing.

They don't come much easier than that in a 4T.

germ · Post by **germ** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 8:49 pm

haha. I like the competition for the ugliest scooter. IMHO I truly think that the Stella is the best looking scooter on the market today. I think all modern scooters are ugly as S#%t! Including the modern Vespa. I just don't understand them at all. I guess that is why I'm considering a Stella.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 9:10 pm

germ wrote:I think all modern scooters are ugly as S#%t! Including the modern Vespa.

Time for a visit to the Optomotrist

. (Sorry, couldn't let that one pass. I agree, though, that beauty is in the eye of the beholder and we each like what we like.)

Post by **ericalm** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 9:20 pm

Silver Streak wrote:
Mulliganal wrote:
ericalm wrote:Regardless, there are those who enjoy things built pretty much as they have been for decades. I totally understand that, but this is a new scooter that is designed for riding in 2010 while retaining as much of the character of the originals as possible.
Eric, I've also read that some folks like the 2T because it's easy to modify and repair. While probably not as easy as the 2T do you think the 4T is fairly easy to work on and modify by a reasonably handy average Joe?
I know you addressed your question to Eric, but I'm not shy about giving my opinion (and, besides, I'll wager I do more wrenching on my own scooters than Eric does).

Yep, 100% correct!

I haven't been too deep into the bowels of the 4T yet, but one PITA is the oil filter. It's in there… somewhere.

I think the "ease" of working on the 2T comes largely from the availability of parts and the huge body of knowledge and experience in working on them. Is it really easier? Hm, I dunno.

BuddyRaton wrote:Personally....and this is just my opinion and I will not argue about it, I think the 68 Super Sport SS 180 was the last of the Vintage Vespas. It was the last of the Sport Series and the last of the piston ported motors.

I don't know if I agree with the definition of "vintage," but I will say that the SS180 (trapezoidal headlight, please) is at the top of my vintage "scoots I'd actually ride and not just show" wish list.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 10:38 pm

NO NO NO...round headlight on an SS180, only found on the 1968 model!. Much more really a lot more rarer!

Actually it doesn't matter (well it does tome!)...the SS180 is just such a sweet ride, I don't know what it is about the larger displacement piston ported motors but they just cruise so nice! They kind of purrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

If you get one make sure it is complete...some parts are unavailable and others just really really hard to find. That includes mechanical parts like a carb, not just cowls and mudguards

The GTV for me makes me think Piaggio thought

"Hey lets do a retro fender light scooter...move that headlight to the fender...OK...we're done." I just think they could have done so much more, it looks unfinished to me.

I will say they are sweet to ride!

germ · Post by **germ** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:18 am

Well I did it. I just drove home a 2009 Stella 2t. Its funny how much we scrutinize every detail of everything in today's online forum consumerist market. But the truth is that you sometimes have to jump in. I couldn't be happier on the ride home and what an upgrade in power from my buddy 50cc and Vespa ET2. I can really feel it.

Thank everyone for the experienced input. It all really helped me make an informed decision. And thank Modern Buddy who has been there for me when I purchased a buddy and now the stella. Solid forum.

DirtyRAT · Post by **DirtyRAT** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:27 am

germ wrote:Well I did it. I just drove home a 2009 Stella 2t. Its funny how much we scrutinize every detail of everything in today's online forum consumerist market. But the truth is that you sometimes have to jump in. I couldn't be happier on the ride home and what an upgrade in power from my buddy 50cc and Vespa ET2. I can really feel it.

Thank everyone for the experienced input. It all really helped me make an informed decision. And thank Modern Buddy who has been there for me when I purchased a buddy and now the stella. Solid forum.

Now you must update your forum signature with a pic of the yet unnamed little bastige? Ride it like you stole it!

In support of just "jumping in" as you say, I agree. Perfect decisions are rare, especially with expensive items like automobiles, houses, marriages, education, etc.

It took me 4 weeks from "gee...I keep dreaming about scooters" to " HI, here's my check...gimme that Stella!"

Post by **ericalm** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 6:13 am

DirtyRAT wrote:It took me 4 weeks from "gee...I keep dreaming about scooters" to " HI, here's my check...gimme that Stella!"

Only took me about 18 years!

germ · Post by **germ** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 1:56 pm

Dooglas wrote:
germ wrote:I think all modern scooters are ugly as S#%t! Including the modern Vespa.
Time for a visit to the Optomotrist . (Sorry, couldn't let that one pass. I agree, though, that beauty is in the eye of the beholder and we each like what we like.)

Nice. I agree. Its completely subjective. I admit that when I was in the store yesterday that some of the Vespa's looked sharp, but my taste definitely leans towards things of the past. Modern things in general seem to lack appeal to me. Hope I didn't offend anyone's taste in scoots.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:17 pm

Congrats on the new scooter!

Now we want photos!

Post by **ericalm** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:46 pm

germ wrote:
Dooglas wrote:
germ wrote:I think all modern scooters are ugly as S#%t! Including the modern Vespa.
Time for a visit to the Optomotrist . (Sorry, couldn't let that one pass. I agree, though, that beauty is in the eye of the beholder and we each like what we like.)
Nice. I agree. Its completely subjective. I admit that when I was in the store yesterday that some of the Vespa's looked sharp, but my taste definitely leans towards things of the past. Modern things in general seem to lack appeal to me. Hope I didn't offend anyone's taste in scoots.

How does a Buddy 50 fit into that?

germ · Post by **germ** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 3:34 pm

ericalm wrote:
germ wrote:
Dooglas wrote: Time for a visit to the Optomotrist . (Sorry, couldn't let that one pass. I agree, though, that beauty is in the eye of the beholder and we each like what we like.)
Nice. I agree. Its completely subjective. I admit that when I was in the store yesterday that some of the Vespa's looked sharp, but my taste definitely leans towards things of the past. Modern things in general seem to lack appeal to me. Hope I didn't offend anyone's taste in scoots.
How does a Buddy 50 fit into that?

I bought a buddy 50 when it first came out because it was better in price, performance, body style and seat height than any other 50 I drove at that time. It's touted as having a classic styling but even after riding it for 5 years it still looks like a plastic Taiwanese scooter to me. But I'm not a sporty guy who likes motorcycles and sports cars. I have yet to see an attractive crotch rocket. I am also the one who doesn't understand how they went from a 60's mustang to the modern version. I feel the same way about scooters. They just don't make them like they used to.

Post by **ericalm** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 3:40 pm

germ wrote:I bought a buddy 50 when it first came out because it was better in price, performance, body style and seat height than any other 50 I drove at that time. It's touted as having a classic styling but even after riding it for 5 years it still looks like a plastic Taiwanese scooter to me. But I'm not a sporty guy who likes motorcycles and sports cars. I have yet to see an attractive crotch rocket. I am also the one who doesn't understand how they went from a 60's mustang to the modern version. I feel the same way about scooters. They just don't make them like they used to.

Oh, I'm mostly right there with you. Just wondering if you hated the looks of your own scooter! I don't share that opinion about some of the modern Vespas, though.

Modern, "classic" styling is (IMHO) preferable to something like the Honda Joker and its many clones (Lance Cali Classic) that have a ton of gratuitous "retro" touches that try to make it look like something it's not. Even the sport styled scoots (not attractive to me at all) seem more honest than those trying too hard to look "classic" for people who probably have a very limited concept of what scooters used to look like.

germ · Post by **germ** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 3:57 pm

ericalm wrote:
germ wrote:I bought a buddy 50 when it first came out because it was better in price, performance, body style and seat height than any other 50 I drove at that time. It's touted as having a classic styling but even after riding it for 5 years it still looks like a plastic Taiwanese scooter to me. But I'm not a sporty guy who likes motorcycles and sports cars. I have yet to see an attractive crotch rocket. I am also the one who doesn't understand how they went from a 60's mustang to the modern version. I feel the same way about scooters. They just don't make them like they used to.
Oh, I'm mostly right there with you. Just wondering if you hated the looks of your own scooter! I don't share that opinion about some of the modern Vespas, though.

Modern, "classic" styling is (IMHO) preferable to something like the Honda Joker and its many clones (Lance Cali Classic) that have a ton of gratuitous "retro" touches that try to make it look like something it's not. Even the sport styled scoots (not attractive to me at all) seem more honest than those trying too hard to look "classic" for people who probably have a very limited concept of what scooters used to look like.

I definitely think the Vespa has done the best job in modernizing their scooters. Since we have been talking about them in this post I was paying more attention to them yesterday and they are growing on me. I guess I will just always think of scooters in the classic sense. I'm probably guilty of looking through nostalgia goggles. But that's just me. It takes all kinds. It would be boring if we all drove the same scooter in the same color.

listless · Post by **listless** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 4:13 pm

It was the repetition of seeing a red newish Vespa LX150 in the elementary school parking lot on nice weather days that pushed me over the edge to finally order my Stella.

We live in a rural area -- I don't see many scooters out and about, but seeing that one was a nagging reminder of how much I have wanted a Stella since about 2005.

Now if the next shipment of 4Ts just gets here from India...I'll have one (with sidecar).

germ · Post by **germ** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 4:23 pm

listless wrote:It was the repetition of seeing a red newish Vespa LX150 in the elementary school parking lot on nice weather days that pushed me over the edge to finally order my Stella.

We live in a rural area -- I don't see many scooters out and about, but seeing that one was a nagging reminder of how much I have wanted a Stella since about 2005.

Now if the next shipment of 4Ts just gets here from India...I'll have one (with sidecar).

I totally understand. I commuted side by side with an LX 150 while on my buddy for a while and I can honestly say that I never once desired one. I did however admire the power when he dusted me once like I was on a bicycle. That experience alone made me want something bigger than a 50cc. I felt that power last night on my stella.

PS. Sportique Scooters (4 locations in Colorado) are still having trouble getting the 4t models. They said their order is still delayed.

Mulliganal · Post by **Mulliganal** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 5:08 pm

listless wrote:It was the repetition of seeing a red newish Vespa LX150 in the elementary school parking lot on nice weather days that pushed me over the edge to finally order my Stella.

We live in a rural area -- I don't see many scooters out and about, but seeing that one was a nagging reminder of how much I have wanted a Stella since about 2005.

Now if the next shipment of 4Ts just gets here from India...I'll have one (with sidecar).

I'm on that waiting list also. One of the guys on StellaSpeed posted this:

I work at Maxeys Cycles in OKC, and heard that our 4t Stellas were just sent back again from Customs. Genuine Reps will be in our shop on Saturday, and I will post whatever Information I get from them later on that day. I have a couple on order and am totally in the dark as well but Saturday there will be some answers. Just keep up with this post or keep an eye on our website maxeys.com

Modern Buddy

2009 Stella 2t or 2005 Vespa ET2 2t.

2009 Stella 2t or 2005 Vespa ET2 2t.

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