2005 Stella 2t Clutch Suck

emach78 · Post by **emach78** » Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:31 pm

When I say suck, I suppose I mean grab. Here's the deal. This is my first scoot project which I scored for $400. It's an 05 with 5500 miles, down on both sides, every piece of rubber dried out that is exposed (I'm in Dallas, so no surprise) Punk as Fudge flat black. Wiring is jacked. When I got it, the clutch was beyond grabby. Like poppin wheelies like it was meant to grabby. I installed new cork and metal plates along with springs, spring cups, o-rings for the actuator (or whatever it's called) with new brass plug. I soaked the plates for about 30 minutes before I installed them. The clutch seems to be adjusted right, with correct play at the lever, and I just adjusted the gear selector cables so neutral is actually at the dot. It was comically far off. So, it's much much better now, but still seems a little grabby. I really noticed with a passenger on it. It also makes a whining sound when the clutch is pulled in, and goes away when in gear. Like a looseness of sorts. I know this is "vintage" design, but I feel like it could be better. Also, I didn't take note if there was a woodruff key in or out when I replaced the clutch. I've been maybe 3 miles since. I couldn't find through pics if I would encounter the woodruff key or not, during clutch replacement. I've worked on motorcycles a bunch, but this scoot business is new to me. Any advice is helpful at this point. I'd prefer it not to be the cruciform.

az_slynch · Post by **az_slynch** » Thu Apr 07, 2016 3:04 am

I'd pop the clutch again. You could have issues with the bronze bushing between the pressure and drive plates (cracked or loose, it might have shifted) or the bronze spacer washer between the faces of those plates might be toast. Another thought is that the clutch basket and pressure plate might be misaligned. There's a small hole in each that helps align them. When properly set, the springs are slightly offset and need to be pushed aside into their seating faces during reassembly.

emach78 · Post by **emach78** » Thu Apr 07, 2016 1:39 pm

I know for a fact that the springs are aligned in their recesses. I also know that the brass bushing in the middle of the clutch is loose enough to slip off. I had watched videos of people heating it up to have enough clearance to allow it to fit, and mine is definitely not like that. Tell me more about the clutch basket and pressure plate being misaligned. Don't they all just slip between the notches in the basket? maybe I'm thinking of something different. I really appreciate the ideas, looks like I'm going to dive back in there, and install a new brass bushing at least

az_slynch · Post by **az_slynch** » Thu Apr 07, 2016 2:41 pm

The clutch alignment issue only applies to the larger 7-spring clutches. I'm including a link to a rebuild process; the author shows proper assembly but doesn't justify why.

http://scooterhelp.com/tips/engine/clut ... vespa.html

On the last one I built, I took a little time to study the orientation of the basket and pressure plate. On a 7-spring, there appears to be one spot where the spring seats lined up correctly even though the small holes aren't lined up. When you set the two parts together with the small holes aligned, each of the spring seats are offset slightly. I believe that the offset is important for the proper loading of the springs.

The author does demonstrate the brass washer (he calls it a bushing) and shows how it's installed, with the raised inner lip facing up. It that is installed improperly, it raises the spacing between the drive and driven plates and it does cause a spacing issue. The center boss of the clutch (drive plate) and brass shaft bushing should stick up slightly more than the outer drive section (the gear), perhaps a half milimeter. The drive plate and shaft bushing sit firmly against the crankshaft when installed; you don't want the gear pressed against the crankshaft as well or you're effectively overriding the slipping function of the clutch and mechaanically locking the output gear to the crankshaft.

If your brass shaft bushing is loose, they're cheap and easy to replace.

emach78 · Post by **emach78** » Thu Apr 07, 2016 7:20 pm

I see the holes you're talking about now. I didn't pay attention to those during my re-assembly. That is a good article, seems I did most of it right. details! I kind of pieced together what I thought I would need besides the springs and plates. Looks like I should have ordered a few more parts. I'm actually going to a local scoot shop that specializes in vintage vespas on saturday for a diagnostic. It will be interesting to see what this cat says the issue is. He already said "don't trust the forums, just bring it to me". I have a feeling you are more than correct about the diagnosis. Hopefully he'll have the parts and confirm what you are saying, and I can get on riding without to much hassle or cost. Thanks for all the advice. I'm pretty sure this forum has already solved at least 3 of my problems on the stella and buddy combined! I'll check back in after the "formal" diagnosis.

az_slynch · Post by **az_slynch** » Thu Apr 07, 2016 11:35 pm

Keep us posted, I'm keen to read his diagnosis. If he tells you that you need a new clutch, I'd be disappointed. These clutches are relatively simple to sort out.

Your description read as pretty comprehensive for a first go-around and the details I shared aren't obvious; you have to do some homework on the process or have prior experience in order to know what to look for. So, if you have to work on it again, you'll now know to check the alignment holes, replace the two brass bits and if it's an LML part, install fresh springs (Piaggio if possible for longevity). Then we'll start blindfolding and timing you.

emach78 · Post by **emach78** » Thu Apr 14, 2016 8:20 pm

So, I've yet to get the scoot back but here it is. It's funny, I really only took it there for the clutch, but we seemed to focus on the carb. It was having idle issues, ran better with the choke out than in. He found air leaks in about 20 seconds, which I wasn't surprised. I was surprised that it had an older style vespa gasket rather than a stella reed gasket. That was my bad. I didn't really see a difference when I was doing the carb rebuild, but apparently it matters a lot. So that was an issue. He tipped it far left, and said, yup, you need a rebuild. Apparently all the major gaskets were leaking. It stalled out in about 5 seconds being tipped. He did say I could ride it with the leaks. He was very upfront about everything, and He was definitely knowledgeable. I said no thanks to the $1000 engine rebuild and $250 clutch rebuild. I feel confident from the knowledge here about the issue and ordered the parts from scootermercato. They came super fast, I actually have them already, but not the stella. gotta pick her up saturday. Before buying this I was thinking about a Ural, but the stella seems to be just as "quirky" read maintenance intensive as the russian rig. I'm not put off by it and like to work on stuff, so it's a win as far as I'm concerned. I do want to get riding already though!

Saturdave · Post by **Saturdave** » Tue Apr 26, 2016 9:59 pm

The type of gear oil you choose can cause pretty bad clutch issues. I started noticing my clutch getting grabby after an oil change. Later, I had my cases split to swap crank & bearings so I thought while I had it open I'd dig the cork plates out and look. It all looked good so I soaked them (in said oil) while finishing the other work... when I got it all back on the bike, the clutch was impossible. Grinding, popping wheelies, super touchy... I fought it for a while, then tried Napa's Sae 30 and it was instantly better. The more I ran it w new oil the better it got... (lets avoid the temptation to turn this thread into an oil thread... the stuff in question was technically correct my scooter just hated it)
Recently, I've switched to a different clutch (for up-gearing) and that familiar "whining" noise while rolling in gear has lessened considerably. the rattle while in neutral is worse though...
BTW, if you forgot the woodruff key that could be pretty bad. I'd guess you would get major slipping/noise/grindage unless you went ape tightening the castle nut. If the key dropped into the case, then you could really get some fun noise.

and nice score, BTW $400 stella?!

Willie B · Post by **Willie B** » Mon May 09, 2016 3:48 am

If your clutch is rattling at idle, pull it out and check the rivets in the clutch bell. I had a great running P that went south when the clutch rivets decided to shear. Had to split the motor and replace the cush. Everyone told me it was ok and not to worry about the rattling sound, it's normal. Believe me, it's not.