Modern Buddy

I had a motorcycle (vintage) in the past and now I am looking at getting a scooter. I know very little about scooters but have always wanted a vintage Vespa and since I've discovered the Stella 4t, I've convinced myself that the 4t is the scooter for me.

Just so happens, the local shop in my neighborhood is about to start carrying Genuine. I just happened to stop by when the Genuine rep was there finalizing the deal. He had a truck with about 4 different models but when I asked him if he had a 4t, not only did he tell me they weren't making them anymore, he did everything he could to talk me out of it.

Along with pretty much telling me the Stella's suck, he summed it up by saying, "You look too smart to get a Stella."

He said that the 4t was better than the automatic but he did everything he could to convince me that a Stella would spend it's time broken down. Than of course he gushed over the Roughhouse which is pretty much 180 degrees from what catches my eye.

When I asked why the 4t was still on the website, he said that there are still a number of dealers that can't get rid of them. He hinted that if I really wanted one, he could probably find one (maybe even at a good deal) but that I really didn't want one.

So...

Is the Stella 4t really that unreliable and prone to breakdown? I don't mind tinkering a little but is it really that hard to dial in a new scoot? Should I really give up on the Stella and start looking at Buddies?

From the reps eyes yeah they kinda suck cos he reps for the company and the Stella is very "quirky". But so is a Vespa PX only not as bad as a 4T when it comes to the electrical side of the bike. Also the rubber bits turn to dust rather quickly. If you know how to wrench then life with any PX/Stella will be a lot easier. Now for the good: Fun as hell to ride, looks ace, and is customizable as other companies come out with more upgrades for the 4T. Now if you don't care to learn about scoots and how to fix 'em and just wanna ride care free then get a Buddy, Kymco, Piaggio, Sym, or a newer Vespa....

Ohh and they ARE still being produced but not imported mainly because they didn't sell well in NA and all the warranty work Genuine had with them...

Deeks wrote:I know very little about scooters but have always wanted a vintage Vespa

So why not consider a vintage Vespa? The P/PX Vespa is well built, fun to ride, fairly easy to work on, and there are plenty of them around.

Dooglas wrote:

Deeks wrote:I know very little about scooters but have always wanted a vintage Vespa

So why not consider a vintage Vespa? The P/PX Vespa is well built, fun to ride, fairly easy to work on, and there are plenty of them around.

Yep. Find a Vespa P200e. Preferably a 1979. They are the F150 of "vintage" scooters. Not real pretty, good torque and top end. Not blazing off the line but not bad. Very reliable.

The good part about all this is if you can find a 4T at a dealer, you can get a great price as they are trying to get rid of them' You need a good place to take it for warranty service though as lots of little things, mostly electric will go wrong.
The upside to a Stella is that even when these things fail you can still ride it.

You know, about the only reason I've had to work on my Stella 4T is because of my tinkering and an accident. The only things that weren't my fault was stripped oil filter cover studs (pretty sure it was the dealership's fault), the ignition wire from the CDI to coil broke off at the connector at the coil (5 minute fix on the side of the road), and the clutch has worn prematurely (well maybe my fault, I ride hard). Otherwise it's been dead reliable, starts 1st or 2nd kick, and a blast to ride. Plus it looks awesome, I think the P series is one of the best looking Vespas. Of course ownership comes with a few caveats, just like a vintage Vespa. Unless you want to going to the dealership often, you must know a few basic skills like adjusting and cleaning a carb, adjusting cables, changing oil, etc...

Also, that rep sounds like a total tool.

I own two of the older 2T stellas. I love them, BUT both have been rebuilt with better cranks and bearings and 180cc kits on the top. They run well and are reliable at this point. Are they still "quirky"? You bet. I tell folks it is like owning a 60's British sportscar. A nice experience if you don't mind tinkering.

The 4T is a bit better and doesn't have large problems; just small niggling ones. I had one that you could have low beam in all 4 gears, but high beam in 1st, 2nd, and 4th. not 3rd. We found and fixxed a rubbing wire that was the culprit. So, its stuff like that.

If you want to get into scooters, by all means buy a Stella. its fun. I did TWICE, but if you want a stone reliable scooter that will never give you problems. there ARE better choices.

There are 4T shiftys still around, but they are almost all gone. The Stellauto can be had for a deal too if you don't want to shift.

Just curious, what shop in Md. ?

Thanks for all the great feedback. The rep did make it sound like he could probably find a good Deal on a Stella. Also said the 4t is much more reliable than the automatics.. I don't learning doing some maintance and if they do keep the two year warranty promise, the dealer is just around the corner. I'm going to see what he can come up with.

Also see a number of dealers online with the 4ts so they must still be around.

It seems that Genuine has lost their relationships with both LML and PGO. My dealer said that there are no plans to continue the relationship with LML specifically. Parts will still be available, albeit at a what seems like premium prices. I think that it's a huge mistake, as the two new small Chinese scoots that they are bringing in are not up to par for the Genuine name. Fingers crossed for the new motorcycle, but who knows.

Stella is where it all started with Genuine, and with my (fantastic) auto, is where my relationship with them will probably end. Disappointing.

I just bought a Honda CTX700, and I am amazed with it's performance, reliability and economy. Oh dear.

is genuine dropping the stella then???

Rippinyarn wrote:It seems that Genuine has lost their relationships with both LML and PGO. My dealer said that there are no plans to continue the relationship with LML specifically. Parts will still be available, albeit at a what seems like premium prices. I think that it's a huge mistake, as the two new small Chinese scoots that they are bringing in are not up to par for the Genuine name. Fingers crossed for the new motorcycle, but who knows.

Stella is where it all started with Genuine, and with my (fantastic) auto, is where my relationship with them will probably end. Disappointing.

I just bought a Honda CTX700, and I am amazed with it's performance, reliability and economy. Oh dear.

The Genuine Venture is leaps and bounds better quality than a Stella Auto.

You pretty much own the worst scooter ever made!

dasscooter wrote: The Genuine Venture is leaps and bounds better quality than a Stella Auto.

Why would you compare them? Completely different machines.

dasscooter wrote:

Rippinyarn wrote:It seems that Genuine has lost their relationships with both LML and PGO. My dealer said that there are no plans to continue the relationship with LML specifically. Parts will still be available, albeit at a what seems like premium prices. I think that it's a huge mistake, as the two new small Chinese scoots that they are bringing in are not up to par for the Genuine name. Fingers crossed for the new motorcycle, but who knows.

Stella is where it all started with Genuine, and with my (fantastic) auto, is where my relationship with them will probably end. Disappointing.

I just bought a Honda CTX700, and I am amazed with it's performance, reliability and economy. Oh dear.

The Genuine Venture is leaps and bounds better quality than a Stella Auto.

Do you have any experience with the Venture? Even in Genuine's promo images it looks ultra cheap.

dasscooter wrote:You pretty much own the worst scooter ever made!

Nah, I think that title belongs to the cheap Chinese 50cc big box store specials.

Yeah, I have one in the showroom. Surprisingly good quality. The Yamaha clone 3 valve water cooled motor is smooth as butter.

I'd put my money on a chinese scooter over a Stellaauto in a heartbeat.

Rippinyarn wrote:It seems that Genuine has lost their relationships with both LML and PGO. My dealer said that there are no plans to continue the relationship with LML specifically.

I have no special insight into where Genuine's relationship with LML is headed, though it has certainly hit a rough patch in turns of scooter reliability. I have no idea why you made that statement about PGO, however. Do you have some information the rest of us do not? Genuine has done very well with the PGO line and indeed have expanded the number of PGO models in their line-up in the last couple of years.

Dooglas wrote:

Rippinyarn wrote:It seems that Genuine has lost their relationships with both LML and PGO. My dealer said that there are no plans to continue the relationship with LML specifically.

I have no special insight into where Genuine's relationship with LML is headed, though it has certainly hit a rough patch in turns of scooter reliability. I have no idea why you made that statement about PGO, however. Do you have some information the rest of us do not? Genuine has done very well with the PGO line and indeed have expanded the number of PGO models in their line-up in the last couple of years.

I seem to remember reading something about Genuine and PGO being on bad terms currently. Could be why Genuine is now offering 2 new non PGO scooters, one Chinese, the other Taiwanese, and a Chinese motorcycle.

PGO simply has nothing else to offer. With the Kick, Genuine pretty much imports everything that PGO makes besides a few variants of the models.

I believe the LML partnership is all but over. Once the rest of the 2014 Stella Auto's are sold or parted out tha-tha-tha-that's all folks! I need to get an update on the "improved harness".. but I still don't see anything newer than 2014 in the stock.

I have two in the back that we won't sell because a lawsuit would shut us down. Even if you desperately ask for one, we won't order it. The last one we special ordered we made sure to explain that they would hate it and we really don't want to sell one.. it made it 250mi before the lawyers were on the phone.

I love my Stella 4t, I really do. Riding it is absolutely sublime. And by taking absolutely meticulous care out of it, I'm approaching 12k miles- far and away the most of any 4t's that were sold by my dealer, SF Scooter Centre. For almost three years it served as my DD riding to my job as a therapist from my apartment on one side of the city (Inner Richmond) to my job on the other side (Upper Noe Valley). Commuting was always an enormous pleasure. Riding the Stella along the coast down Great Highway with the salty air in my face on a nice day while running through the gears... I can't think of much else I'd rather do.

However, like everyone else I've suffered a litany of problems small and large, mostly electrical. Luckily most were sorted under warranty, but now that the warranty is over I forked out almost $500 just to get the lights and blinkers working again along with a new rear tire and oil change. Be prepared for some maintenance costs, unless you have the knowledge and time to do the work yourself.

I now have a car and a GenZe electric scooter that serve as my DD's but I still love riding the Stella far more than either of my other vehicles. If you are willing to put up with the maladies (I am) and live in a place where service is available (I do), then great. Honestly if I were to do it over again I would have bought a 2t or one of the 2005 Vespa PX's that you could still find new in their crate (neither were sold new in California but can be registered once they are three model years old). The 4t is efficient and has a unique character all its own, but the negative of the 4t is that the engine is something of a rare unicorn, and rebuilding and repairing is brutally expensive. The 2T and PX don't have that issue, as the basic Vespa engine is everywhere and parts are easy to find.

I hear you about not wanting a Buddy. It's dead reliable and even the 125 is quicker than the Stella, but if you want a Stella, you want a Stella (medal body, manual transmission, old school character, etc). My dealer tried to talk me out of a Stella and into a Buddy when they found out I hadn't owned a scooter before, but once they figured out what I wanted, they relented. And I was right. The Buddy is great but I have zero interest in plastic scooters.

As for the Stellauto, my dealer said the same thing others are saying. Stay far, far away.

Good luck!

I just bought a 2008 Stella 2t, with only 1600 miles on it. Granted I haven't had it long, but I'm f'ing loving it! I think that there will always be pros/cons to any scoot. Thankfully my husband is a mechanic, so I have a built inhome shop. I did a lot of research on Stella's, and I think that while they're quirky, they can be reliable. I would like to beef mine up a bit, maybe with the 180 kit. I say buy what you like, learn your bike, learn her quirks and enjoy

I recently moved and just got my Stella out of storage after a little over 2 months. I put some gas in it and a battery and it started right up. It has served as my main vehicle for about 2 1/2 years now and after replacing the kill switch after the first few months I have had 0 problems with it. If you want a manual shifter scooter get the Stella 4T. So much fun to drive around.

One thing to keep in mind is the distance that LML is putting between themselves and the US. Parts may become very scarce. You'll have to order from the UK for simple replacement parts.

Most of the consumable parts I've bought for my 2013 4t have been shipped from India:

Rubber pieces
Clutch cables

I haven't had to buy any engine or electrical parts yet though.

Maybe the best comparison would be when Bajaj pulled out of the US. Maybe someone who owns a 4T Bajaj can tell us what has happened with parts availability there.

I'll stick with my Stella Auto for a while, thanks, as there are many of them regularly being ridden for thousands of miles, even here in the US, never mind the UK, where they are hugely popular and are responsible for getting a lot of folks back on scooters. They did just upgrade the CVT on the new ones (125 "wide body" and the new PK, also a 125), as the one on the original autos was a 50cc one, it seems. Besides the CDI recall issue, mine has been fine since I cleaned the original owner/ignorer's old fuel out. Keep it on the charger and keep some Seafoam in the fuel and it seems dead reliable. Then again, I ride a lot, and like an airplane, these things like to be used.

Genuine is going in a different direction (with the mainland scoots) and I wish them luck, but I'll not be buying them (50cc... I've already got a shed full!) I can't wait to ride the motorcycle though as it looks interesting. I've also got to get a test ride on the Genze, as it's a hometown scooter (Troy and Ann Arbor, Michigan) and also Indian (Mahindra) in origin.

I loved my indestructible Bajaj (Legend) and had hoarded quite a few parts for it (that it never needed). I just sold them for cheap over on the vintage scooter FB group, along with the POC pipe. Parts availability isn't great, but thankfully, 4T engines don't need that much in the way of rebuilding, almost certainly for the life of the scooter, so that's a plus.

Rippinyarn wrote:I'll stick with my Stella Auto for a while, thanks, as there are many of them regularly being ridden for thousands of miles, even here in the US, never mind the UK, where they are hugely popular and are responsible for getting a lot of folks back on scooters. They did just upgrade the CVT on the new ones (125 "wide body" and the new PK, also a 125), as the one on the original autos was a 50cc one, it seems. Besides the CDI recall issue, mine has been fine since I cleaned the original owner/ignorer's old fuel out. Keep it on the charger and keep some Seafoam in the fuel and it seems dead reliable. Then again, I ride a lot, and like an airplane, these things like to be used.

Genuine is going in a different direction (with the mainland scoots) and I wish them luck, but I'll not be buying them (50cc... I've already got a shed full!) I can't wait to ride the motorcycle though as it looks interesting. I've also got to get a test ride on the Genze, as it's a hometown scooter (Troy and Ann Arbor, Michigan) and also Indian (Mahindra) in origin.

I loved my indestructible Bajaj (Legend) and had hoarded quite a few parts for it (that it never needed). I just sold them for cheap over on the vintage scooter FB group, along with the POC pipe. Parts availability isn't great, but thankfully, 4T engines don't need that much in the way of rebuilding, almost certainly for the life of the scooter, so that's a plus.

Just wait.

Funnily enough, last week after a short ride to a meet-up literally three blocks from my house, the beast would crank but not start. Of course the kick start is next to useless and I quickly gave up and walked it home. I parked it in the garage and called it a "vicious bastard", which didn't seem to help. I only got to look at it yesterday and discovered a quarter-sized blob of that blue green crap that grows on bad connections on the positive connection. Bastard! I cleaned it up and the scoot started beautifully. I went ahead and ordered the Motobatt replacement, as the idea of a wet cell battery (Genuine replaced it with a low-spec Exide after it sat for 7 months) is truly old school.

Scooting, ya know, sucks sometimes

What it boils down to is that LML are an absolute nightmare of a company to do business with. The importers here in the UK have the same problems.

They put in big orders for spare parts and these parts dont arrive. They feed back issues to LML and LML ignore them. I have heard from certain people in the know that the importers have hassle just getting the LML folks to answer the phone or reply to emails.

All of this gives the importers and the dealers a bad name when scooters are off the road in the workshop waiting on parts. Some people over here have been waiting for months for parts that should be on the shelf waiting to be shipped.

I am wondering how long the UK importers are going to put up with LML. It seems LML are only interested in one thing,shipping contains full of scooters in exchange for containers full of money.


Back to the OP,the 150 4 stroke is pretty much bullet proof engine wise. You might have a few electical issues but nothing major and easy to fix.

I shipped my LML 200 4t across the pond last year and rode it from New York to San Francisco covering over 4000 miles it 20 something days last year and had no major issues. In fact the engine was still running fine (just needed new rings) until a few weeks back when I forgot to replace the dip stick after checking the oil then went for a ride!

They are basic but they work. Change the oil and filter regularly and you should have thousands of miles problem free riding.