Modern Buddy

babblefish wrote:4) The release delay was due to the VW emissions controversy. The EPA rescinded all new applications and required everyone to resubmit their applications.

Well, that makes a lot of sense. It's easy to imagine how frustrating this whole process must be for Genuine. We heard that there was one other problem which caused them to have to resubmit. I'll bet they had to resubmit (at least) twice, once because of the problem we already heard about (a part had to be sourced from another vendor requiring recert) and now we know about the VW thing. That's another recert. Some of this giant delay may well just have been very unlucky timing.

I saw a G400C in the wild yesterday with MN dealer plates. I talked with the guy driving it (dealer employee) He said they will be for sale in "about a month" he said delays were due to EPA and that Genuine now has the EPA certification not Shineray, which was apparently an area of contention last year.

The bike looked nice, well put together. Bigger than a TU250, maybe a touch bigger then an old CB350. He guessed 4600 list about 5400 out the door.

emptyhead wrote:I saw a G400C in the wild yesterday with MN dealer plates. I talked with the guy driving it (dealer employee) He said they will be for sale in "about a month" he said delays were due to EPA and that Genuine now has the EPA certification not Shineray, which was apparently an area of contention last year.

The bike looked nice, well put together. Bigger than a TU250, maybe a touch bigger then an old CB350. He guessed 4600 list about 5400 out the door.

Awesome! I'm beginning to believe this may finally happen. It's still not in the EPA database as of today (May 11, 2018) , but EPA has been very slow to update that database. It may already be done and they just haven't posted it to the database yet.

The Shineray thing... do you all remember when I pointed out that Shineray got EPA certification on the 2017 models of their version of the G400C with about a week to go in 2017? I thought that made no sense at all. Why bother to get cert on a bike when the year is over? I still wonder what the deal was there. I wonder if that has some bearing on the whole delay or what. We may never know the story but something happened along the way or we'd have had this bike 900 days ago...

babblefish wrote:
1) The G400 should be available for purchase everywhere in the US except for California in about three to four weeks. Because of California's more complex emissions laws, we won't see them until near the end of the year.

2) SF Scooter Center will be carrying the G400 in their store.

So what you are saying is I have until the end of the year to find a place with a garage to park both my Stella and the G400C I'm thinking of buying?

I've been trying to see if I could get the latest/greatest EPA information from an unlikely source - the EPA. Hahaha! I know, right? Anyway, the result was one of the politest drop-dead letters I've ever gotten. In a long life of drop-dead letters, I think this one wins:

2 1/2 years later, it's now on Genuine's website.
http://genuinescooters.com/g400c.html

It finally looks like the G400 will beat the Elio to production.

New2Scoots wrote:2 1/2 years later, it's now on Genuine's website.
http://genuinescooters.com/g400c.html

Hmmm. Lower horsepower rating than a BV 350. Something to think about. (It sure looks better than a BV 350, however )

New2Scoots wrote:2 1/2 years later, it's now on Genuine's website.
http://genuinescooters.com/g400c.html

Look carefully down at the bottom of the specs for that bike. Does that say Model Year 2106?

I didn't want to burst your bubble, but that's the same page that's been up since 2016. Note that it's not linked from the Genuine Scooters front page. Sorry...

jrsjr wrote:

New2Scoots wrote:2 1/2 years later, it's now on Genuine's website.
http://genuinescooters.com/g400c.html

Look carefully down at the bottom of the specs for that bike. Does that say Model Year 2106?

I didn't want to burst your bubble, but that's the same page that's been up since 2016. Note that it's not linked from the Genuine Scooters front page. Sorry...

Yeah I searched Genuine G400C instead of Genuine Scooters. Sounds like it won't be long though.

New2Scoots wrote:

jrsjr wrote:

New2Scoots wrote:2 1/2 years later, it's now on Genuine's website.
http://genuinescooters.com/g400c.html

Look carefully down at the bottom of the specs for that bike. Does that say Model Year 2106?

I didn't want to burst your bubble, but that's the same page that's been up since 2016. Note that it's not linked from the Genuine Scooters front page. Sorry...

Yeah I searched Genuine G400C instead of Genuine Scooters. Sounds like it won't be long though.

Any day now, since 2016...

Maybe the G400C really is slated to be a 2106 model year bike.

skully93 wrote:I've been told Fall is most likely. Disappointing because they won't sell in many places after the Summer. There were customs hurdles.

-From 2016

Won't be long now!

New2Scoots wrote:

jrsjr wrote:

New2Scoots wrote:2 1/2 years later, it's now on Genuine's website.
http://genuinescooters.com/g400c.html

Look carefully down at the bottom of the specs for that bike. Does that say Model Year 2106?

I didn't want to burst your bubble, but that's the same page that's been up since 2016. Note that it's not linked from the Genuine Scooters front page. Sorry...

Yeah I searched Genuine G400C instead of Genuine Scooters. Sounds like it won't be long though.

I think you are right. I just don't want anybody to make a decision based on incorrect information they got from this site. I closely monitor the EPA and CARB sites for my other thread. When there is official information publicaly available, you folks will be the first to know.

I was ready to drink the koolaid.

wheelbender6 wrote:I was ready to drink the koolaid.

Yeah, me too. I've been waiting to exhale since ericalm started this thread 970 days ago.

jrsjr wrote:Yeah, me too. I've been waiting to exhale since ericalm started this thread 970 days ago.

Searching the official Genuine Scooters Facebook page I stumbled on this from July 3rd:

jrsjr wrote:Searching the official Genuine Scooters Facebook page I stumbled on this from July 3rd:

This September?

Syd wrote:This September?

Good question. You also should have asked if the Facebook post was this July.

Syd wrote:

jrsjr wrote:Searching the official Genuine Scooters Facebook page I stumbled on this from July 3rd:

This September?

Now, now. Play nice. At least now we have a realistic-sounding target date.

P.S. Just to be 100% certain, I checked and the post from Doug Scott is from July 3, 2018 and the reply from Genuine Scooters is from July 9, 2018.

babblefish wrote:3) There will be three variants of the G400: Classic, Cafe Racer, and Sports.

If I get the scrambler variant, I think I'll name it Steve McQueen or maybe Bud Edkins...

The EPA, right on schedule, posted the quarterly update to their database of Certified Highway Motorcycle Test Results Report Data. The Genuine G400C is not listed for either 2018 or 2019. Neither. I'm disappointed. Really disappointed. Really REALLY disappointed.

After taking a second to shake that disappointment off, I have something sort of fun that I found right away in today's additions to the database. Just for fun, check out this little item I found - the Wolf 300. Apparently, SYM have been showing this bike off at various bike shows but I didn't find any news about it coming to the USA. The model listed in the EPA database is referred to only as the Wolf 300. According to the EPA database it has a 278cc, two-valve, mechanically injected motor, single-cylinder making 26.8 horsepower. It's not exactly a road burner, but it fits the bill for folks who liked the SYM Wolf 150 but wanted a bigger bike than a 150. There are pictures out there of a Wolf 300 motorcycle that aren't half bad looking, but I'd like to see a pic of what we are actually getting (if anything) in the USA.

jrsjr wrote:check out this little item I found - the Wolf 300. ...

According to the EPA database it has a 278cc, two-valve, mechanically injected motor, single-cylinder making 26.8 horsepower. ...

There are pictures out there of a Wolf 300 motorcycle that aren't half bad looking, but I'd like to see a pic of what we are actually getting (if anything) in the USA.

I would have picked up a SYM Wolf 300 if it had been offered back in the day when I first saw the SYM Wolf 150 (5-6 years ago). The rather anemic 150 cc mill in the Wolf 150 just didn't justify replacing the Buddy with a less utilitarian small motorcycle whereas a 300 cc engine in the same frame would have offered something worthwhile!

jrsjr wrote:Searching the official Genuine Scooters Facebook page I stumbled on this from July 3rd: "Look for it mid-September".

jrsjr wrote:The EPA, right on schedule, posted the quarterly update to their database of Certified Highway Motorcycle Test Results Report Data. The Genuine G400C is not listed for either 2018 or 2019. Neither. I'm disappointed. Really disappointed. Really REALLY disappointed.

Okay, the pieces don't fit together very well. Genuine says mid-September, but EPA says "nada" at the end of July. Introducing a new model isn't all that esoteric, manufacturers do it all the time.

Dooglas wrote:Introducing a new model isn't all that esoteric, manufacturers do it all the time.

Even some very small manufacturers, I might add. There is one other sensible explanation. Remember that super polite drop-dead letter I got from the nice lady at the EPA? This thing:


If that letter is to be believed, it's possible that EPA are withholding public posting of the g400c certification. I don't believe that though because, if you followed my other post of yesterday's EPA update (July 25, 2018), you'll know that EPA outed BMW's new 400cc scooters, which I doubt was sanctioned by BMW USA. P.S. I note that Motorcycle.com featured that story today but followers of my thread knew it yesterday. Heh!

Christophers wrote:
I would have picked up a SYM Wolf 300 if it had been offered back in the day when I first saw the SYM Wolf 150 (5-6 years ago). The rather anemic 150 cc mill in the Wolf 150 just didn't justify replacing the Buddy with a less utilitarian small motorcycle whereas a 300 cc engine in the same frame would have offered something worthwhile!

Same thing here, or I'd have a Spade already. If I ditch the scoot lifestyle, it's going to be for something fairly small, but it needs to hit highway speeds or there's really no point "upgrading".

PhillyKick wrote:

Christophers wrote:
I would have picked up a SYM Wolf 300 if it had been offered back in the day when I first saw the SYM Wolf 150 (5-6 years ago). The rather anemic 150 cc mill in the Wolf 150 just didn't justify replacing the Buddy with a less utilitarian small motorcycle whereas a 300 cc engine in the same frame would have offered something worthwhile!

Same thing here, or I'd have a Spade already. If I ditch the scoot lifestyle, it's going to be for something fairly small, but it needs to hit highway speeds or there's really no point "upgrading".

PhillyKick wrote:

Christophers wrote:I would have picked up a SYM Wolf 300 if it had been offered back in the day when I first saw the SYM Wolf 150 (5-6 years ago). The rather anemic 150 cc mill in the Wolf 150 just didn't justify replacing the Buddy with a less utilitarian small motorcycle whereas a 300 cc engine in the same frame would have offered something worthwhile!

Same thing here, or I'd have a Spade already. If I ditch the scoot lifestyle, it's going to be for something fairly small, but it needs to hit highway speeds or there's really no point "upgrading".

If a mid-sized retro bike of that sort is at the top of so many lists - why not the Yamaha SR400? Not necessary to have a 3 year long thread wondering where it is.

Dooglas wrote:If a mid-sized retro bike of that sort is at the top of so many lists - why not the Yamaha SR400? Not necessary to have a 3 year long thread wondering where it is.

I can't argue that point. All I can say is the SR400 is $6000 + $375 destination + $$$ dealer fees for a motorcycle that does not have an electric start and has a 400cc cylinder instead of a 500 like the SR500 I rode 35 years ago. For $6000, Yamaha could have at least done a two-tone paint job or a kneepad or something to snazz up that bike so it doesn't look like a bargain-basement 250. As I said, I can't argue the point, but I also couldn't bring myself to lay out nearly 7 Large for the SR400...

jrsjr wrote:As I said, I can't argue the point, but I also couldn't bring myself to lay out nearly 7 Large for the SR400...

Sounds like the old joke about the two butcher shops. A lady tells one of the butchers that she can get pork chops for a $1 less a pound across the street. The butcher asks why she doesn't buy across the street. She answers that the other shop is all out. The butcher answers that he would sell his pork chops for a $1 less if he was also all out.

Dooglas wrote:

jrsjr wrote:As I said, I can't argue the point, but I also couldn't bring myself to lay out nearly 7 Large for the SR400...

Sounds like the old joke about the two butcher shops. A lady tells one of the butchers that she can get pork chops for a $1 less a pound across the street. The butcher asks why she doesn't buy across the street. She answers that the other shop is all out. The butcher answers that he would sell his pork chops for a $1 less if he was also all out.

Probably why I dropped a big bore kit in my Buddy 125

File this under "Bikes we will never ever see or get a chance to ride in the USA." Check out the Benelli Leoncino which was announced today for the India market. It's a 500 twin which has a nice blend of quasi-retro styling and modern tech.

Brings to mind the Molly Hatchet song, "Dreams I'll Never See".
(Done by the Allmon Brothers first, but not that many people remember that version.)

wheelbender6 wrote:Brings to mind the Molly Hatchet song, "Dreams I'll Never See".
(Done by the Allmon Brothers first, but not that many people remember that version.)

I remember it. I saw them play it live in the early 70s...

"I remember it. I saw them play it live in the early 70s..."

Cool! I grew up in Georgia, but never saw the Allman Bros.
I didn't want to see them so much after Duane's death.
In hindsight, I should have made the effort to see them.

wheelbender6 wrote:"I remember it. I saw them play it live in the early 70s..."

Cool! I grew up in Georgia, but never saw the Allman Bros.
I didn't want to see them so much after Duane's death.
In hindsight, I should have made the effort to see them.

The first show they did behind Eat a Peach was tearful for a lot of folks, but that album was so transcendent that the new music carried the day. And you could always flip the record(s) over and listen to Mountain Jam. I thought it was brilliant.

BMW beat Genuine to the mythical 200cc to 400cc slot. If the price isn't ridiculous, I'll probably pick one up. But all bets are off if Honda brings the X-ADV to the US.

Now the rumors are going around the Genuine Scooter Co. will be importing Royal Alloys. I've seen some posts from other scooter shops showing the Royal Alloys then those posts mysteriously disappear.

k1dude wrote:BMW beat Genuine to the mythical 200cc to 400cc slot. If the price isn't ridiculous, I'll probably pick one up. But all bets are off if Honda brings the X-ADV to the US.

That's a gorgeous scoot! I'm with you, if the price is right I may not be able to resist the force.

RoaringTodd wrote:Now the rumors are going around the Genuine Scooter Co. will be importing Royal Alloys. I've seen some posts from other scooter shops showing the Royal Alloys then those posts mysteriously disappear.

Welcome to the world of fake scooter news on social media. The same thing has been going on with the G400C all along.

The Motor Scooter Guide has a nice write-up on the BMW C400X scooter. They state that it should be very competitive in price and features against the Burgman 400 and Yamaha X-Max 300. They say that it should be priced somewhere between $6-7K when it Hopefully comes to the US as a 2019 model.

http://www.motorscooterguide.net/BMW/C400X/C-400-X.html

k1dude wrote:BMW beat Genuine to the mythical 200cc to 400cc slot. If the price isn't ridiculous, I'll probably pick one up. But all bets are off if Honda brings the X-ADV to the US.

Well, the C 650 GT is $10,995. And the Suzuki Burgman 400 is $8099. The Top Speed guy thinks that those two prices are sort of the upper and lower limits for the price of the C 400 X. If I had to guess, I would guess $8995.

P.S. As of this morning (August 7th, 2018) there is no MSRP listed on the BMW site. BMW has a page for the C 400 X, with all kinds of pix, info, and everything but an MSRP.

*record scratch*

dasscooter wrote:*record scratch*

I KNOW, right? It's only been 1004 days since eric announced this bike and now we're actually going to get the $#@! thing. 'sincredible...

I'm gonna log out and go get some kool-aid out of the fridge.

wheelbender6 wrote:I'm gonna log out and go get some kool-aid out of the fridge.

Don't electrify it or anything. We wanna be crazy happy, not bedbug crazy.

jrsjr wrote:File this under "Bikes we will never ever see or get a chance to ride in the USA." Check out the Benelli Leoncino which was announced today for the India market. It's a 500 twin which has a nice blend of quasi-retro styling and modern tech.

Um, how about the TNT 300? Looks about the same and according to the Benelli USA website, available in the US. Well, it's shown on their US website anyway.
https://usa.benelli.com/product/tnt-300

Want something bigger?
https://usa.benelli.com/product/tnt-600-i

Can't find any prices for these motorcycles on their website though.

I want to find out the availability of this scooter:
https://usa.benelli.com/product/zafferano-250-u
A somewhat local dealer is advertising this for $3300. It's FI, watercooled, 2.83 gallon fuel tank, 14" wheels, and makes a little over 20HP. I like.

Here's their 150cc step-through for $2400:
https://usa.benelli.com/product/caffenero-150
FI, water cooled, 12.87HP