Service bulletin on surging issue?

[Rippinyarn]

In line with Killbilly's post, I'd like any further information that anyone has on the Blur's surging/ECU issue. I've asked two dealers and they either "forgot" or "didn't hear anything" from Genuine. I've got the racing/surging and the low idle symptoms. It's still a great scoot, but I'd like to take care of any issues before the real cold sets in.

[killbilly]

Methinks an end-user full-court press on Genuine may be in order. I have a sneaking suspicion that they're not telling their dealers everything.

[Scalpel]

In line with Killbilly's post, I'd like any further information that anyone has on the Blur's surging/ECU issue.

Surging issue? Could you elaborate? I hadn't heard about this one...

[Rippinyarn]

When I picked up the scoot, I noticed that it had what seemed like a low idle. Later, I noticed that the scoot also doesn't idle at the same speed all the time. It will vary by 200-300 RPMs and will then drop down to it's normal like 1700-1800 RPM. It really doesn't effect the performance of the scoot, but it's kinda weird watching it do it's thing. I have ZERO complaints about this scoot otherwise, but I'd like it to idle smoothly and consistently, especially during the winter with it's chilly temps and whatnot. I don't think that I actually got blown off by my two dealers, but they have bigger fish to fry than to chase information out of Genuine. Genuine also probably have bigger fish to fry as well, but eventually this is going to turn into a bigger thing.

[Bjc617]

yea mine also does that to. the rpms at idle seem to not stay in one place but it doesnt really bother me, when it is a little chilly outside it will rev a few then go back to idle but when its warmed up it is fine

[Rippinyarn]

I read somewhere that it's a TPS (throttle position sensor) problem, but I don't know where I got that. It would be nice to know if it's a hardware or software solution, and the dealers had no idea.

[babblefish]

I've heard of FI problems with PGO scooters in Taiwan through a contact there, but do not know the details nor any solutions. I can try and get more info if anyone is interested.

[Rippinyarn]

I'd love more information. It quit on me this morning at a stoplight and that's the first time that it's happened.

[killbilly]

I've heard of FI problems with PGO scooters in Taiwan through a contact there, but do not know the details nor any solutions. I can try and get more info if anyone is interested.

Yes, please, Babblefish.

Not that I'm trying to get anyone at Genuine in trouble, but I've already had an experience where my dealer was not being given what I consider adequate support from Genuine. Getting information to help the dealer helps us holds Genuine to task. Sort of a "trust but verify" situation.

I've been impressed so far with tales of Genuine going the extra mile for customers. I'd like to see that continue. It's part of the reason I chose this bike.

[Rippinyarn]

A little background from the other thread...

My dealer said that he received the diagnostic testing cable from Genuine some time back and he invited me to borrow it or to visit the dealership this weekend to see if we can diagnose the stumbling/low idle/surging issue. He told me that the cable is a simple device that plugs into the port then blinks with a code as it tests the scoot. He has the sheet with the codes and I'll bring the knowledge back to youse guys.

[killbilly]

I have the surging problem. And it's bad.

I live about 8 mi from my dealer. Picked up the bike, it was running fine - if you recall, they were doing the replacement of the dump valve and doing a valve adjustment.

When I picked it up, I noticed a slight surge in the idle but I didn't think much of it, assuming that it was cold or the EFI was adjusting something.

1 mi from home, the engine started sputtering, badly, like it was fuel starved, and got progressively worse to where it wouldn't idle over 4K. Yanking the throttle open would give it a nudge but it was gradually stuttering down to lower and lower power.

It died in front of my apartment building.

I got it restarted and managed to sputter/surge it to the security gate of the apartment. It died again in front of the gate.

Fourth attempt to start it worked. But it wouldn't rev past 4-5K, and it stuttered and sputtered all the way up the ramp to the garage.

It's acting the way my '98 VW Golf would after disconnecting the battery for any reason. The EFI on the car would lose all of it's programming, and it didn't always reset the TPS and ECU after connecting the battery again. You sometimes could short the battery cables together which would "dump" all the programming and cause a correct reset, but that was a 50-50 prospect.

The Blur is acting exactly like that car did.

I called the dealer and told him what I thought. He thinks it sounds like an EFI problem too. He's calling Genuine, and they had damn well better come up with a solution for him.

[Rippinyarn]

I'd be mad too!
Don't forget your roadside assistance card! It's actually a pretty good service.
I hope that my TPS issue (if that's what it is) doesn't get that bad, as some of the streets that I travel on a daily basis aren't the most friendly streets that I've ever encountered.
Good luck getting that sorted. Does your dealer have the "diagnostic cable"?

[killbilly]

I'd be mad too!
Don't forget your roadside assistance card! It's actually a pretty good service.
I hope that my TPS issue (if that's what it is) doesn't get that bad, as some of the streets that I travel on a daily basis aren't the most friendly streets that I've ever encountered.
Good luck getting that sorted. Does your dealer have the "diagnostic cable"?

I don't know if he does or not. Waiting to hear back from him.

EDIT: Spoke to my dealer a bit ago. He's talking to the head tech at Genuine, but either way he said they would be over to pick it up and see if they could fix it today, hopefully.

[killbilly]

Yargh.

So the guy with the truck left for today. Thus, killbilly invokes the roadside assistance.

Now, I have not received my roadside assistance credentials in the mail, which meant going through all kinds of rigamarole on having them set up my account.

But, in about 30 minutes, the towing guy showed up, put my bike on the trailer and hauled it off. The dealer promised me he would get back to me today, so that's good.

Man. I hope it's not serious. It was a bummer watching my bike leave on a trailer. Especially since, as we were loading it up, a smirking Vespa rider buzzed by.

Will post when I know more.

[Rippinyarn]

Woah, here's my update (sorry for the delay)!

I rode out to Blackbeard Powersports on Saturday and the owner let me use the "diagnostic cable" for the Blur 220i. As it turns out, it's actually just what I would call a "dongle". Here it is:



The tool slides on the diagnostic port under the seat. Once there, you simply turn the ignition to on and watch for the engine light to blink. Here's what you are looking for (I took good notes):

Part___________________________Defect Code (# of flashes)
Throttle Position Sensor----------------0 long, 6 short
Intake Manifold Pressure Sensor-------0 long, 9 short
Engine Temperature Sensor------------1 long, 1 short
Oxygen Sensor--------------------------1 long, 7 short
Injector----------------------------------3 long, 3 short
Ignition Coil-----------------------------3 long, 7 short
Fuel Pump-------------------------------4 long, 1 short
Heater of Oxygen Sensor---------------4 long, 5 short
ISC Motor--------------------------------4 long, 9 short
Crankshaft Position Sensor-------------6 long, 6 short
ECU--------------------------------------Always on
System is all right!----------------------Always off

Of course, nothing lit up on the Blur. We tried it a couple of times and then just cleared the (empty) defect code memory ('cause we could):

Plug in tool
Hold throttle wide open
Turn the key on
After the EMS (engine light) turns off, release the throttle
Wait until the EMS LED turns on again
Unplug tool

The sputtering problem that I've been having is really an unstable idle. It goes so low that the scooter shakes and then clears up and even revs a little more than normal. I decided to show my dealer that it would still do that, even after using the tool.

I started the scoot and demonstrated that the idle was unstable, i.e. it started and ran at 1800 for a few seconds, then it went to 1500, then up to about 2100. After a few more seconds it went down to 1800, then to 1500, and then back up to 2100. My dealer noted this and said that he would email his tech at Genuine. He did that and got a note back that says, essentially, that the ECU is programmed to closely maintain the temperature of the O2 sensor and during warm-up the ECU will change the idle to ensure that the O2 sensor is kept in a warm-up mode (this is probably for emissions). That's fine, I told my dealer, but it does this after long runs too, when the scooter should be all warmed up. In fact, the first time it stalled was after a 12 mile run in traffic to downtown Detroit. My dealer was going to ask the tech what else we could check, and this weekend, I plan on changing the oil/filter again and checking the connections around the FI, just to make sure.

Still, riding this scooter is a blast and I'm very pleased with my purchase and with Genuine. I'm going to enjoy my scoot and wait until we learn some more about this first year (in the U.S.) scooter.

[rattler110_818]

Have u fixed ur sputtering issue?

[Rippinyarn]

I'll let you know as soon as I get it back on the road. Maybe next week? It's still a bit icy on the almost melted stuff, but the rest of the week is looking good, and warmer.

As I recall from early December, it wasn't much of a problem after I got used to the idle going up and down every once in a while. I think that I only stalled twice. I'm going to talk to Philip McCaleb about it at Dealer Expo this week.