No Start Issue

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omniphil
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No Start Issue

Post by omniphil »

Just wondering if you guys have run into this before..

This happened to me once this summer, but it never happened again so I discounted it as a fluke, but has since happened 3 times in the last 3 weeks.

Basically I hop on the scooter, turn the key on, flip the ignition switch on and then hit the start switch (With the brake pulled in). The dash dims slightly like it pulling amps from the battery, but nothing happens.

In the summer when it first happened, I was at home and I just shut it off and hopped in the jeep instead. Later that day it fired up fine.

The last few times I was at work and came out at the end of the day to head home. No start :(

I popped up the seat and opened the battery box, and I slid the 4 relays out of their rubber mounts and banged on the relays. Scooter now starts..

The scooter is still pretty new with 3200 miles on it, Wondering if this is just a rare thing or if others have had this issue.

I need to look at a wiring diagram, i'm assuming one of the relays is a starter relay and I can just swap it out under warranty...
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illnoise
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Post by illnoise »

will it kickstart?
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BlueMark
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Post by BlueMark »

I had very similar symptoms with my 150. Sometimes it worked fine. Sometimes not. Battery had a full charge, fuses good.

It was solved by tightening the battery terminal connections. What seemed like a good connection was vibrating loose, and then vibrating tight(er) again.

Dunno if that is your issue - the dim lights could be from a poor connection, but that's pretty iffy.
omniphil
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Post by omniphil »

No kick start for me on the Blur 220. (Probably would have been a good idea to mention that in my post)

I will try tightening the battery terminals, sounds like a good place to "start" lol ;)
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Rippinyarn
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Post by Rippinyarn »

I'd also recommend taking the storage box out and unplugging, spraying a little electrical connection "conditioner" or "restorer" (contact cleaner) and firmly reconnecting. It's something that I need to do to the Blur, because it's worked well in the past on other scoots. It shouldn't need it, but it keeps the connections in good health.

Keep us advised on your no start condition, if you will. I'm sure that it's a minor issue. Do you use a battery tender?
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omniphil
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Post by omniphil »

Rippinyarn wrote:I'd also recommend taking the storage box out and unplugging, spraying a little electrical connection "conditioner" or "restorer" (contact cleaner) and firmly reconnecting. It's something that I need to do to the Blur, because it's worked well in the past on other scoots. It shouldn't need it, but it keeps the connections in good health.

Keep us advised on your no start condition, if you will. I'm sure that it's a minor issue. Do you use a battery tender?
I'm not sure I know what you mean by storage box?

I haven't used a battery tender yet, but probably will when I store it for the winter...
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Rippinyarn
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Post by Rippinyarn »

Underseat storage, the four bolts and two electrical connections (charger and box light) and it's out. You gain access to the top of the engine this way. On the Kymcos, they call it a "met in box" (for some reason) and although ridiculous, at least everyone knows what they are talking about :P

Unless you ride more than 10 miles on each trip, you may be dealing with a slightly discharged battery. Higher RPMs will allow the charging circuit to operate and over that distance, actually charge the battery. Frequent short trips will result in a discharged battery.
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omniphil
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Post by omniphil »

Ah, ok. So take the storage box out to get at the electrical connectors that would go up to the relays and battery. I understand now, good idea...

I ride either 20 or 35 miles to work (one way), depending on where I stay (girlfriends place or mine), Once I bang on the relays it fires right up, so the battery should staying topped off I would think.
Rippinyarn wrote:Underseat storage, the four bolts and two electrical connections (charger and box light) and it's out. You gain access to the top of the engine this way. On the Kymcos, they call it a "met in box" (for some reason) and although ridiculous, at least everyone knows what they are talking about :P

Unless you ride more than 10 miles on each trip, you may be dealing with a slightly discharged battery. Higher RPMs will allow the charging circuit to operate and over that distance, actually charge the battery. Frequent short trips will result in a discharged battery.
omniphil
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Post by omniphil »

Just some update info...

When it will not crank, I notice the red engine light is on. Bang on the relays and light does not come one while trying to crank and it will start.


This morning I got something different. (It was 27 degrees out) It did crank fine, but it did not actually start, just kept cranking, tried like 5 - 6 times. Banged on the relays a few times and it cranked and started ok.

Had about half tank of gas, maybe the cold and condensation was an issue. But It didn't feel like it wanted to start, it just cranked. Almost like as if there was no spark. So i'm not sure fuel/condensation was an issue.

I'll see how it does tomorrow morning in the cold...

Its sort of too bad, because the starting issues are almost starting to ruin the reliability of this scooter. Its basically brand new and twice so far I have been stuck somewhere other than home fiddling with the electronics. Every once in a while it will die while idling, I would hate for it not to start right back up while sitting in rush hour traffic. (It has not done that yet)

Does any one know what each of the 4 relays under the seat are for?
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Rippinyarn
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Post by Rippinyarn »

I doubt that the relays have anything to do with it, but I guess that anything electrical/mechanical could be at fault. I'd also take a look at the kill switch or the brake handle switch. Another thing that you could do is to make sure that the contacts on all of those underseat electrical connectors are clean and tight (spray cleaner and a reseat usually does it). Can you get to the dealer so that they can plug their diagnostic tool in?
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omniphil
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Post by omniphil »

Rippinyarn wrote:I doubt that the relays have anything to do with it, but I guess that anything electrical/mechanical could be at fault. I'd also take a look at the kill switch or the brake handle switch. Another thing that you could do is to make sure that the contacts on all of those underseat electrical connectors are clean and tight (spray cleaner and a reseat usually does it). Can you get to the dealer so that they can plug their diagnostic tool in?
I could certainly get it to the local dealer without too much issue, The issues are so intermittent at this point, i'm sure it would probably work fine when they had it...
omniphil
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Post by omniphil »

Some more info...

Pretty much every morning I have to mess with connectors and relays to get the scooter started, I don't think it likes the cold.

I have noticed that most times the clock keeps resetting back to zero.

Does anyone know if the clock runs off of the main battery or some small battery in the cluster itself?

If it's the main battery and i'm losing the clock, maybe I need to check over all the battery cables.

But same story this morning. Wouldn't start at all. messed with the relays and battery terminal and now it will crank, but will not start. I wonder if the fuel injection system is having issue priming in the cold?
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babblefish
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Post by babblefish »

The fact that the clock resets to zero tells me you may have a battery connection problem or the battery itself may have a problem. It's not unheard of for a battery to have an intermittent internal connection. If so, cold weather would increase the likelyhood of this happening. Your Blur has a starter solenoid (relay) in it, but it is not one of the relays that is plugged-in. On mine (a 150cc), it is bolted to the frame underneath the pet carrier. I would remove the pet carrier and check the connections to the solenoid just to be sure. You can find it by following the big red cable from the positive side of the battery to it's other end - it will be attached to the starter solenoid. From the starter solenoid, there will be a thick cable (usually black) going to the starter motor itself. When you press the starter button, a clicking sound should be heard from the solenoid. Hope this helps.

BTW: The kill switch on the handlebar is not "ON" is it?:)
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omniphil
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Post by omniphil »

Hehe, killswitch isnt on. It wouldn't even crank if that was on...

I will go trace that battery terminal to the relay and make sure everything is all snugged up...
babblefish wrote:The fact that the clock resets to zero tells me you may have a battery connection problem or the battery itself may have a problem. It's not unheard of for a battery to have an intermittent internal connection. If so, cold weather would increase the likelyhood of this happening. Your Blur has a starter solenoid (relay) in it, but it is not one of the relays that is plugged-in. On mine (a 150cc), it is bolted to the frame underneath the pet carrier. I would remove the pet carrier and check the connections to the solenoid just to be sure. You can find it by following the big red cable from the positive side of the battery to it's other end - it will be attached to the starter solenoid. From the starter solenoid, there will be a thick cable (usually black) going to the starter motor itself. When you press the starter button, a clicking sound should be heard from the solenoid. Hope this helps.

BTW: The kill switch on the handlebar is not "ON" is it?:)
omniphil
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Post by omniphil »

I have removed the underseat storage and reseated all the electrical connectors I could find and have tightened the battery terminals down.

I have not had any starting issues since and it was 26 this morning, it fired right up.

I have a new cvt belt that has really woken up the scooter, and now with the starting issues gone, it feels like a new scooter (except for all the darn rattles, grrrr)
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