Front wheel alignment

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Davek
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Front wheel alignment

Post by Davek »

Hey-

Recently I tried taking my hands slightly off the bar and the front wheel almost immediately started wobbling semi badly.. I've tested it at up to 30-35 and it still does it, which seems odd to me. Wobbling enough that I have to immediately grab it again.. no problem with one hand, and no weird feeling riding with both hands (no vibration or shaking or anything).

I'm curious if anyone else has noticed that or if someone could try it quickly.. don't do a Banzai maneuver with your arms pumping the air in victory; just a quick hover off the bar on a slow straight.

I'm thinking either I lost some weights or possibly tweaked something when I left a bike lock on my front wheel one time and started rolling before I remembered it, doh. Nothing visible though.
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bluelghtning
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Post by bluelghtning »

The most common cause of this is a front tire that was allowed to run low and is wearing unevenly now or just extremely heavy front brake usage that is causing the tire to feather along the leading edges of the tire grooves. The tire develops a strange lip on the leading edge of your tread, that you can usually feel if you run your hand over it opposite the normal direction of travel. You can't feel it if you are just riding and have your hands on the bar, but let go and your bars/front wheel go into what is called a "tank slapper". Its an oscillation that is being transferred from the front wheels through the bars. I guess it could be an unbalanced wheel too, but I'm not sure it would cause the oscillation through the bars, but rather something you would feel as your rode down the road.

Its possible something more serious is wrong, like something is bent, but that normally shows up in everyday riding you would notice. Most of the time when this issue comes up in motorcycles, it's a front tire that is wearing funny. Bad news is it won't ever go away as long as that tire is on. Good news is, its probably not going to ever really hurt you on your scooter as long as you keep your hands on the bars.
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Erlkonig
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Post by Erlkonig »

Replace the front tire first, then see what happen.

if this still exist then replace steering bearing assembly(from handle bar, upper frame bearing race , lower race and ball) steering stem race as
well. doing this will make you feel new, smooth, and going stragith, less wobble.

do not replace wheel rim, front folks and steering stem.

my 200 did not wobble when new, but wobble a little after 14000 km. it is normal wear of tire and steering bearing.
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Lostmycage
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Post by Lostmycage »

OK, I've got to chime in here, and mainly because I thought I was going crazy...

Before I got into an accident with my Blur, when I removed my hands, it wobbled exactly like you mentioned. After I got the forks replaced, it ran straight when I removed my hands from the bars.

Here's where it gets weird. I had to get it reinspected after the work was done because the previous inspection was on the forks. With the new sticker (on the left fork), it occasionally wobbles where it didn't when the forks were clean.

Do you have any sort of inspection stickers on your forks? It might not have anything to do with your circumstance at all, but this has been messing with me quite a bit these last few weeks.
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Post by Davek »

Sorry for the delay.. no, didn't notice any stickers or anything on the forks. Pretty strange that yours is better after replacing the original ones, but at least it sounds like other people have noticed the same thing as me, so I'm not as worried.

Thanks for the replies!
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Lostmycage
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Post by Lostmycage »

Chances are that it's the feathering that bluelghtning mentioned. I don't often take my hands off the bars, but that's something I noticed before the repairs, so I thought I'd test it. It wasn't very extensive. I got it repairs, I did no hands while I was riding to get it inspected with no wobble. On the way back, I no hands again and it wobbled.

Oddly enough a few days later I tried again (no change since getting the inspection) and no wobble. It's very come and go. A little alarming, but with the tire explanation, it makes more sense. I'll just have to find out when I put new rubber on it probably come summer time.

Or maybe it's just all in my head.
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Lostmycage
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Post by Lostmycage »

Actually, speaking of tire balancing, has anyone ever heard of, or better yet, tried this:
http://www.innovativebalancing.com/?gcl ... nAodVkBpjA

I can't seem to decide if the concept makes sense or not. Just thought I'd throw that out there. Motorcycle tire balancing is a little new to me. I don't see anything that looks like a weigh on my rims. Not that mine really seem off balance, but you never know.
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Post by Kurt »

I don't have any personal experience riding with this stuff, but we've changed several tires that had it, and what a MESS! That slime gets all over the tire changing tools, and we have to be careful handling the old tire or it will spread to other parts of the shop.

If you're changing your own tires, look for a painted dot on the sidewall (tubeless tires only). Lining up the dot with the valve stem is supposed to give you the best balance available without adding any weights.

Small diameter tires usually don't require balancing - uneven tire wear or poor tire construction are more likely to affect handling than being out of balance.

Bottom line is I don't recommend tire balancing "slime" regardless of the brand.
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bluelghtning
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Post by bluelghtning »

I've been changing my own motorcycle tires for 7+ years with my Harbor Freight tire changer. Tire Changing 101. I stopped balancing my tires a long time ago. If anything, I balance the rim if its really bad (which some have been), and then as the above poster said, line up the dot with the valve stem. These days, tires are pretty dang good and I've never had an issue with one being out of balance that it caused me issues. I've put many tens of thousands of miles on my motorcycles and never had an issue.

I've yet to change a scooter tire, but I have a feeling the small tires, especially Sarah's 10" buddy tires are going to be a fun.

The tire changer has definitely paid for its self many times over though.
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Davek
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Post by Davek »

I think I've seen people on advrider.com talking about those Dyna Beads but I can't remember what the consensus was. They're not slime though; I think they are sort of like mini ball-bearings. I remember the seller on advrider saying they can be reused if you collect them from your old tire.
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Post by sotied »

bluelghtning wrote:The most common cause of this is a front tire that was allowed to run low and is wearing unevenly now or just extremely heavy front brake usage that is causing the tire to feather along the leading edges of the tire grooves. The tire develops a strange lip on the leading edge of your tread, that you can usually feel if you run your hand over it opposite the normal direction of travel. You can't feel it if you are just riding and have your hands on the bar, but let go and your bars/front wheel go into what is called a "tank slapper". Its an oscillation that is being transferred from the front wheels through the bars. I guess it could be an unbalanced wheel too, but I'm not sure it would cause the oscillation through the bars, but rather something you would feel as your rode down the road.

Its possible something more serious is wrong, like something is bent, but that normally shows up in everyday riding you would notice. Most of the time when this issue comes up in motorcycles, it's a front tire that is wearing funny. Bad news is it won't ever go away as long as that tire is on. Good news is, its probably not going to ever really hurt you on your scooter as long as you keep your hands on the bars.
I have EXACTLY that situation. Yesterday I was buzzing around town and when rolling up to a sign I pulled my hands away from the bars lightly and they immediately went into a wobble. I had them covered, so I could immediately put my hands back on.

Can't feel it at all when hands are on the bars.

And when I just now ran my hand across the front tire, there is no lip and a very smooth path if I slide my hand from the front fender down to the ground on the front tire.

BUT, when I slide my hand on the front tire from the ground up toward the front fender, it's like a cheese grater with the edge of each groove sticking out so you can feel it.

Tread looks fine. Lots of tread left. 7500 miles on the scoot.

Should I rush to replace the tire or ride it for a while more?

Thanks!
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charlie55
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Post by charlie55 »

I have noticed the same on the Blur since I had about 3000 miles on it. I never did the rub-a-dub test on the front tire since it'd only really be an issue if it wobbled WITH my hands on the bars. I've now got 7200 miles on the tires, so I don't believe it's something to lose any sleep over.
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