Should dealers mention this?

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MacJac
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Should dealers mention this?

Post by MacJac »

I think I brought up a good point about the Rattler on another topic. Dealers don't have to say anything about 2-stokes temperamental behavior when selling the Rat, but should they? More and more people that purchase these are not aware about having to adjust air/fuel. This may turn off some 'mechanically-uninclined' folks who are interested, which is why dealers/sales keep their mouths shut I assume. Just curious as to what people think. Whether you're 2-stroke savvy or not, did your salesperson mention anything about air/fuel adjustments prior to selling you one?
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Ray Knobs
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Post by Ray Knobs »

Unless you know what you are buying you shouldn't be buying a 2-stroke.

Selling one to an uneducated customer is only going in to come back to haunt you.

When i picked up my rattler my dealer has just sold a RH, the woman had paid and it was outside waiting for her. He ran through what all the buttons did and right before she was about to pull away she asked when she needed to get the oil changed?
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MacJac
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Post by MacJac »

I agree Ray. My point exactly regarding that woman who bought the RH. Too funny!
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Post by mattgordon »

Caveat-Emptor...Buyer beware.

There is SOOO much technology from computers, to cell-phones, to automobiles these days, and it ALL has idiosyncrasies. All of it.

The world (and web) is full of more info on every subject than you can shake a stick at...it's un-responsible to oneself to not look into anything/any product before dropping your cash, IMO. Due diligence is the term I believe.

At least I try to research first before entering unchartered waters....
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Post by Amahoser »

I dunno,
Bought a Rattler (from Matt Gordon's son... Thanks!). Had almost 2k miles on it when I bought it. I added another 600 miles and its been fine. Rode it in 30 degree all the way up to 90 degree weather and no a/f adjustment needed. It did run a bit rough once, but I attribute that to overfilling the gas tank.

I have no aversion to adjusting the idle air/fuel if need be (I'm used to it on my '63 Vespa) but I haven't needed to.

Maybe i've been lucky???
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Ray Knobs
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Post by Ray Knobs »

You also got the scooter after it had been broken in. You shouldn't need to change it unless it loosens itself
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nissanman
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Post by nissanman »

Didn't Matt leave his stock too? A modified scooter would be a bit more fussy.
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mattgordon
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Post by mattgordon »

nissanman wrote:Didn't Matt leave his stock too? A modified scooter would be a bit more fussy.
Yes he did! And it's still for sale...I've had NO grief, stalling, etc. with it ever.
But it IS a two-stroke which have always been part science, part black magic! Thats the charm of the 2T.
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Post by Amahoser »

The original poster did not specify that his problems are just during break in. He just said that two strokes are tempermental. I wanted to post that I personally have not seen this. It has also been mentioned that people have found the need to adjust mixture based on weather conditions. This too is something I personally haven't seen on a Rattler. True, once you start deviating from stock, you'll have to do a lot more tweaking but that is completley beside the point. MacJac mentioned that people are misled by dealers because two strokes are tempermental and require more tinkering..... well, if you modify your own bike, I think you should have the skills (and the desire) to adjust the mixture....

On a stock Rattler, I can see the mixture needing adjustment once or twice during break in, maybe. (chances are it probably won't need adjusting) But I assume your new vehicle warranty should take care of that.

So what should discourage the average scooter rider to consider a two stroke? Geez a few years ago, thats all there was! MacJac, Im wondering if you have a carb problem. If your Rattler requires constant work, somethings wrong.

My '63 Vespa requires a lot of tinkering. Then again, its a 46 year old scooter with a 180cc kit and a non stock carb.

My point in my previous reply was to say that I haven't had any problems. I was also wondering if by some dumb luck, I got lucky and the majority of Rattlers out there require constant tinkering. Is that the case?

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laxer
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Post by laxer »

I really am not very engine-saavy (but am becoming more interested since buying my rattler "Hiss"). That being said, I have had no trouble whatsoever with the buck-ten 2-stroke, even after storing it improperly over the wintertime. Maybe I'm just lucky (knock on wood), but it seems like those who mod their bikes are generally the ones who have to tinker with the air/fuel.
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MacJac
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Post by MacJac »

I've done no mods, and the first thing that was checked out on my Rat was the carb when I brought it in. They cleaned that and I still had the air/fuel problem. I only adjusted it twice and haven't needed to since, hopefully I'm good to go from here on out. I should have said 'during break in'. My bad.
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Post by nissanman »

My ratio only needs some adjustment after any changes to my setup... I expect it to need a little dialing in at that point. I agree with you that it's really not the place for a salesperson to put an unnecessary fear into a potential buyers head. A lack of education of the customer is not the salesperson's fault... but I'd give bonus points to the salesperson who educates his customer a little too. The only machine that I've had that required ZERO adjustments... oh wait, I don't have one of those :lol:
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Post by gearhead »

many will sweet talk. 2 stroke is a + imo. better performance capabilities :D
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Post by Amahoser »

MacJac wrote:I've done no mods, and the first thing that was checked out on my Rat was the carb when I brought it in. They cleaned that and I still had the air/fuel problem. I only adjusted it twice and haven't needed to since, hopefully I'm good to go from here on out. I should have said 'during break in'. My bad.
Ah, thanks for clarifying. Sounds like when you brought your bike in, your running problems were misdiagnosed as a dirty carb. Your dealer should have adjusted the carb for you. On the other hand, you dealer did you a favor. Now you know how to adjust mixture on your bike! One of the greatest things about a scooter is its simplicity. Its one of the few vehicles left that is still very basic. An average person can learn a lot about engines and general maintenance that can easily transfer to other, more complicated vehicles. Good for you for getting your hands dirty!

Back to your original question. The problem you experienced can easily happen on a 4 stroke scooter .... or any carb equipped engine for that matter. Your mixture was slightly out of adjustment. As your engine broke in, the problem became more evident. I'll agree that two stroke engines CAN be a bit more finicky but from my experience with the Rattler and what I have read on the forums so far, the Rattler is one solid scooter that is ultra reliable. Anyone here work on modern Vespas? Doing general maintenance is a Pain in the butt! They definatley have more issues and complications than a Rattler.... and they are 4 strokes! But I would also argue that Vespas are proven, reliable vehicles.

2 stroke engines are simplier. They are easier to work on. They *may* require a bit more carb fiddling at times but overall, they are much easier to work on than a 4stroke.

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MacJac
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Post by MacJac »

Thanks Jose - and yes you're right, the dealer actually did do me a favor by cleaning the carb. I purchased the Rat at end of last summer. Living in Chicago with a fiercely cold winter that's finally over, I'm looking forward to a warm weekend where I can ride!
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Post by luckyleighton »

I bought mine new a year ago, I have about 1000 miles on it and I have had to adjust nothing. It sat unused in the garage for the winter mos, cranked up fine and runs like a dream for the past month.
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Ray Knobs
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Post by Ray Knobs »

Winter in Huntsville?
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Post by luckyleighton »

Winter was pretty much Dec and Jan. I am probably weak to the cold, but anything below 45 and I wimp out. :oops:

I am good about cranking the rat every other week to get its juices going. I know that helps because the longer I wait the harder it is to get it started.
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Post by Ray Knobs »

45.... I might even put on the long johns for 45
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