Battery problems

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siafu
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Battery problems

Post by siafu »

Hi all.

I was wondering if you could help me out.

I had my RH50 since April 2008. A couple months ago, I noticed the battery started to die, I could barely start the scoot with the auto starter. I figured maybe somehow the battery drained, but still how could this be when I ride the bike almost everyday.

So The bike at first would not start, would kick start it, then ride around and the battery would charge, but then after just a few hours of sitting, the battery would die again. This happened for a few weeks, till the battery would no longer hold charge any longer, just enough charge to light the panel when I switch the ignition on.

Then It got worse, the light would work while I drove around, but when I try to signal, it would make a weird buzz, and can only signal when I would have the bike revved up at high RPM.

I took the battery out tonight, and the bike still runs, but still the signals do not work unless the engine is revved up to high RPM.

What could be the problem?

The bike has 2 year warranty, is the battery under warranty? IT only ran for about 4 month properly, or even less if I think about it.


What should I try, I hate to get another battery if there is some sort of electrical problem, because it will just kill the new battery.

Thank you.
siafu
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UPDATE

Post by siafu »

This is an update to my battery issues on my RH 50 2008 model.

So I took the battery out, brought it in the house, and tested it, with my volt meter. It reads 11.5 volts, and I also tested it with a spare signal light I have for my RH, and the light light up, bright, so it appears that it's not the battery.

I then went out to my scooter, and kick started it, checked the fuse, the one on the red wire, the fuse is good. Then I hooked up the volt meter to the battery wires on the scooter to measure the voltage being produces by the alternator. While the scooter is idling normally, it produces in the neighborhood of 4.5 volts, but it's not steady, it jumps, from 4.5, to 6, to 7, then back down. If I rev the engine, then it jumps even to 17 volts, but it's very unstable, it's all over the place. Is this normal?

I also took the front part of the bike off to check the wire connections, everything looks fine, I even disconnected the headlamp, the cig lighter, but still the scooter will not start by the ignition motor, the electric start, nothing, it's like dead, no noise what so ever. The horn does make a bit of ding while you press it, just for a second while you press the horn button.

The weird thing is, that now the signal lights work, but they work differently, they blink really fast, and it's not consistent, they go super fast, then slow down, then back to fast.

The signal indicator on the panel the green light, lights (blinks) when the signal switch is on (this is normal), but also the orange light, the oil light (or is this also the engine light? This also blinks when the signal switch is on, it alternates from the orange light to the green light.

Not sure what is going on here, could it be a short somewhere? I looked all around the bike, and I don't see any wires that are pinched or cut, or any indication that there might be a fault.

What else can I try in an effort to isolate and eventually remedy this problems?

The good news is that the signal lights now appear to work, not sure for how long.

Thank you in advance for any information.
wparente
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It's the battery

Post by wparente »

It is not uncommon to have low voltage at idle and higher voltage at a higher rpm. One of the reasons you are getting strange readings is because the system needs a battery in it to charge and operate properly. With the battery in the scooter you should see 13.2 to 14.5 volts (a guess) at high idle. When testing the battery you need to put a load on it to read the voltage, like in the scooter when trying to start it. It is not uncommon to get a good voltage reading with no load. If you are getting above 14.8 volts with the battery in when running there may be a problem with the regulator on the charging system. My best guess is that it is a 75% chance that the battery is bad. Small motorcycle/scooter batteries are notoriously unreliable. :cry:
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bigbropgo
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Post by bigbropgo »

scooter batteries are horrible. discharge the battery completely more than a couple of times and it becomes junk. and they are expensive too! if you find a good deal at a shop or online, buy two. I'm a little lazy at times and with a problem like this i think i would buy a new battery anyway and install it. if the problem is gone, great. but finding a electrical problem is a job for a shop or pro. depending on how new a scoot they may pick up the tab.

I have left the lights on after daylight driving enough times to know the price plus tax at 3 local atv shops :wink:
siafu
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Post by siafu »

Hello.

Thank you for the information.

But how do you explain the horn not working, or the signal lights going fast and slow?
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nissanman
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Post by nissanman »

The battery not only provides power to the scoot, it acts as a capacitor to act as a buffer from voltage surges etc. With all the seemingly non-related electrical issues happening you may have more than one issue or a ground issue that's common to both electrical systems. That's why a good tech is worth the $$$. Get it to a good shop, better to pay a few bucks and know it's done right.
EZPZ #65
siafu
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Post by siafu »

Hi All.


I now tested the voltage again, while having battery hooked up to the scooter, and having the signal lights blink, the reading was like 6 to 8 volts.

Then I started the scooter (kick start, because it will not start with electric starter) and the reading was around 11 volts. Still the horn did not work.

Then nI drove the scooter up some hills for about 30 minutes, at one point I tested the horn and it worked. The signal lights did work normally moist of the time, while the engine was revved up at high RPM while driving, but at a stop they started again to work weird, what I mean by that, is they they would not be even blinks, fast, slow, all over the place.

The electric start still would not work at all even after driving around for a while.

When I tested the battery again after driving around with the engine running the reading was again all over the place, in idle mode around 12 to 13 volts, and while revving the engine, it would even jump over 20 volts.

So is this indicate, that perhaps there is a problems with the charging system of the bike? Or just the battery?

Is the battery under warranty is I take it in to the shop and it shows that there is a faulty charging system, or another faulty electrical device? After all, maybe the battery went bad because something electrical caused it?

I have never left the battery drain by mistake, I have driven the bike almost every day since I bought it brand new in April of this year.

I have notified the place where I purchased the bike, a couple times via email since I noticed this problem about 3 months ago, but they don't respond, their customer service is not the greatest. I would rather try to fix this myself than take it in and be given the run around that I have to pay them for parts and labor because this is not under warranty.

Thank you for your suggestions.
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bigbropgo
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Post by bigbropgo »

the starter, blinkers and horn use different amount of power to operate. the blinkers blinking to fast indicates a disruption in the normal operating parameters. battery is almost dead but there is just enough to cause the blinkers to operate irradically. but like nissanman said you need the battery to buffer the incoming juice being produced by the alternator. without it connecting the system would burn up. if you want to fix this yourself start with easy and inexpensive and work up from there. this starts with the battery. but i agree with nissanman on taking it somewhere. no warranty gives you options on where to take it. a new alternator isn't cheap.
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Spinergy
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Post by Spinergy »

Sounds like a bad stator [the engine's built in alternator], there have apparently been a spat of bad ones in recent Genuine scoots. This should be covered under warranty.

As to voltage wparente's numbers are spot on: assuming you have an accurate meter you should see 12.6-12.9 volts at the battery if it's fully charged, and anything below 12v is basically dead. Running at idle you should get at least 13.5v, 14.5v at cruising speed if the charging system is functioning properly. The output of the stator isn't very high, maybe 4-5 amps at cruising rpm, so if your battery does get drained it would take a couple hour's operation to fully charge it, less if you disconnect the headlight. Best to revive it with a battery charger. If you don't have one many auto parts stores [like autozone] will charge batteries for free. As mentioned before, Do Not run the scoot without the battery hooked up, doing so could damage the charging system.
siafu
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Post by siafu »

Hi all.

OK, sounds like there is a problem with the stator, so I will be takin g it to the dealer to have it looked at.

Thanks all for your help.
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nissanman
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Post by nissanman »

Bad battery... bad regulator... or bad stator. Flip a 3 sided coin to pick your first target :lol: Don't throw $$$ at parts hoping it will fix the real issue, throw $$$ at your mechanic instead.
EZPZ #65
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Alix B
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Post by Alix B »

was there ever conclusion on this?
Stator?
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rickyd410
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Post by rickyd410 »

Inquiring minds want to know..!!
siafu
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Post by siafu »

Hello all.

I had the alarm Gorilla installed in my scoot, and that was killing the battery. I don't think it was killing it because of the alarm working properly, well I don't think this because it should not. It is 100% that the alarm killed my battery, but I believe that it's because the alarm is defective.

I talked with the folks at gorilla, and did some tests, like disconnect the alarm, and re-charge the battery, then all was good again, then after connecting the alarm to the battery, again is started to die, this was happening even if I had the alarm off, meaning not in the armed position, just simply connected to the battery, and still killed it.

The folks at Gorilla asked me to send the alarm back so they can test it, it will be there next week, and we will see what they say.

I hope they find something wrong with the alarm, otherwise I will not be able to use the alarm, as it keeps killing the battery.

Does anyone else here have this Gorilla alarm in their scoot and working fine, or having the same problems?
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luckyleighton
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Post by luckyleighton »

I have been having battery troubles all summer. I went about 2 months without riding my Rattler in the Spring. When I tried to get it going again the battery was dead and it had trouble starting. I was able to get it started by jumping it off with one of those jump starters you can buy from Retail hardware places. When riding it out now I carry it with me (its pretty small).

I assumed my battery is fine, but these are things I notice when riding that are not normal (with the bad battery). The horn will not work and the blinkers work erradically. It rides fine luckily, so I don't let it stop me on the weekends, but riding it will not charge it enough to do anything but fire up the speedometer.

I have been meaning to get a new battery.
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Ray Knobs
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Post by Ray Knobs »

I have ridden all summer with a battery that won't hold a charge large enough to run the starter.

Kick starting it is to freaking easy so i haven't bothered to buy on.
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narcoleptic
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Post by narcoleptic »

I bought my Buddy 50 used and from the first day I could not use the electronic start. I took it for my 2000 mile maintenance and they charged it to full and it wouldn't hold a charge. They determined that there was a dead cell in the battery.

I'm not sure if the battery in the RH50 is the same as in the Buddy 50, but my biddy came with a measly 3Ah battery. When I replaced my battery this past weekend, I bought a 7Ah battery which fit into the battery compartment just fine, I just had to take a Dremel to the tabs on the cover of the compartment. I would recommend upgrading if you are going to pay to replace it.
B02S4
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Post by B02S4 »

narcoleptic wrote:....I bought a 7Ah battery which fit into the battery compartment just fine, I just had to take a Dremel to the tabs on the cover of the compartment. I would recommend upgrading if you are going to pay to replace it.
I took a Dremel to the inside cover to make room to install the Deltran Battery Tender leads. I could kick myself that I didn't do it sooner.
JonP
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Any resolution to this one?

Post by JonP »

I too, am having the same issues...my mechanic had it in the shop for 5 days testing the entire electrical system and couldn't find anything wrong. The battery has been changed out 5 times now in the last few months by the shop and still the issue lingers. Something kills the battery after about 2 days after a full charging...ugh...so annoying lol :)
siafu
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Post by siafu »

Hi all,

I took the scooter into the dealer, and they said there was nothing wrong with the bike's electrical system, just a dead battery, so they installed a new one, paid the nice hefty fee and went on my way, then a few months later, battery started acting weird, then dead.

I'm not really looking forward to taking it to the dealer again, as they didn't fix the issue before, while bike was under warranty.

It appears that there is something wrong with the bike, wish the dealer would have been honest and took care of the problem then.

Now I drive with it with dead batt, because I don't trust dealers.

I don't have a problem with not starting the bike with electronic starter, what bothers me it can't signal, or it does it only for a few blinks then stops.

Any idea what I can do to fix this myself?

Thank you
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agrogod
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Post by agrogod »

What about that Gorilla Alarm? Did you get a resolution to that problem. If the alarm was defective could it have done some damage to your bike's electrical system.
It could be one of those problems that can't be solved sitting in a mech's shop.
Hope you resolve this. Good luck.
siafu
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Post by siafu »

Sorry forgot to mention about the alarm. I took the alarm out, and sent ti back to the folk at Gorilla. They tested it for a week, and said there was nothing wrong with it. I have not installed the alarm into the scooter, but still have the problem with the battery.
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