Cold Weather Starting

loodieboy · Post by **loodieboy** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 2:03 pm

Temperature touched 32 this morning and the Budster took 3 shots of ignition juice to start. No biggie for now, but there will be some colder days ahead and I don't have a garage, just a covered back porch.

Would a battery tender overnight make lazy-man starting more reliable? Any other tips for starting clean and easy? Don't you dare say kick-start.

BTW, no issues once fired up. The Budster is rejetted to 95 (new pipe and rollers) and purrs. Low idle was set when it was 40 out. No stalling or hesitation during warm-up or once on the road.

I just want the Budster to fire up first time, every time in the cold mornings (and evenings) to come. Am I being unrealistic?

Tocsik · Post by **Tocsik** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 2:27 pm

I'll let others respond to the battery tender as I park in a garage, but even indoors, it gets pretty cold in Denver.

The mechanics at Sportique Scooters suggest that before you start the Bud in cold weather, use the kick starter one or two times just to move the oil around inside the engine. Do this with the ignition OFF. I do this but it interferes with my "gear-up" routine 'cause using the kick starter without my boots on hurts!

Post by **illnoise** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 4:07 pm

The rejetting might affect your starting a little, but probably not much.

The electric start's not really the issue. It sounds like it's doing its job, but the engine's not firing. Keeping the battery well-charged will ensure that it turns over when you need it, and it'll give you a few shots at it if it doesn't start right away (the starter drains the battery REALLY fast).

So the starter's turning over just fine, the problem is in carburetion and ignition. A fresh, properly-gapped spark plug might help, and maybe some fuel stabilizer, but really you're just looking at the issues of any carburetor in cold weather, which is one of the reasons people love fuel injection.

Vintage scooters have a choke, that helps, but modern scooters have an autochoke that I'll never really understand (feel free to explain it to me someone). I suppose it's possible but unlikely that your autochoke's not working properly.

Bb.

loodieboy · Post by **loodieboy** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 4:51 pm

Great, thanks. I'll drop a fresh plug in, give the next couple of tanks a dash of seafoam, and use a battery tender nightly. And okay, maybe a kick or two just to keep the oil happy.

loodieboy · Post by **loodieboy** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 5:05 pm

Dang, I meant to ask, does anyone have an opinion of the Schumacher brand of chargers sold by AutoZone and Advance Auto Parts?

Post by **illnoise** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 10:38 pm

Schumacher is pretty ubiquitous, they make a few other brands you see other places, too. I've used one for ages, it's fine, but read up on the difference between a tender, a trickle charger, and a fast-charger. A tender is designed to be left in all the time, it turns itself on and off as it's needed. Some trickle chargers don't do that and can damage the battery if left plugged in too long. You definitely don't want a fast charger.

Check the amp rating, IIRC, the amp rating should be a certain fraction of the battery total. Mine can be switched between 1 amp and 3 amps, I think, 500mA or 1A is probably best for scooters.

If you're ever going to buy a vintage scooter, find one that switches between 6V and 12V, otherwise, 12v is fine.

Also, look for one that comes with a lead (or buy an optional lead) that you can permanently attach to your battery, and leave dangling somewhere so you're not having to constantly take your scooter apart to reach the battery.

Bb.

Eazy · Post by **Eazy** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 10:45 pm

auto-choke bikes are just difficult to start in the cold.

I would just recommend sticking with it and working on your kick starting skills, you'll need them.

(score 1 for Stellas)

LisaLisa · Post by **LisaLisa** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 10:47 pm

In the great white north they have engine block heaters for their cars.
You could get a heating pad and put it under the engine.
Also, a warm battery works better than a cold one.

charlie55 · Post by **charlie55** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:25 am

illnoise:

Since you asked.....

While a classic choke restricts airflow into the carb, the auto-choke (or auto bystarter as it's sometimes called for reasons unknown) increases the flow of fuel.

What you basically have is small passage from the bowl (sorta like a jet) which can be either left open or blocked by a plunger on the auto-choke.

When cold, the plunger is retracted, allowing more fuel into the mix. As it heats up, the plunger extends until the fuel passage is blocked.

Unfortunately, the auto-choke is not driven by engine temperature, but only by an electrical heating element. So, it'll cut off the extra fuel when IT'S warm enough, which is not necessarily when the engine is warm enough. In other words, there's no feedback and it's pretty much a time-dependent function.

Since their normal mode is to have the plunger retracted, malfunctioning auto-chokes will tend to result in running too rich.

You can usually diagnose a bad auto-choke by disconnecting its electrical plug and throwing an ohmmeter across the leads (which feed the heating element). Anywhere from about 5 to 10 ohms should be OK. Anything over that could indicate a problem. This figure is just ballpark, and can vary from scooter to scooter.

Post by **illnoise** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:48 am

Thanks charlie. So it's actually electrically-driven? Nuts. If you're going through all that trouble to save someone having to pull out a knob, you'd think they'd just go straight to EFI.

I really don't get why it would kill them to add a fuel tap to modern scooters, too.

Bb.

rickko · Post by **rickko** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:10 am

LisaLisa wrote:... a warm battery works better than a cold one...

Battery Trivia question: What is the optimum temperature for Buddy type batteries to work most efficiently?

Answer:

60 degrees.

LisaLisa · Post by **LisaLisa** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:44 am

which, I gather, is warmer than the op is talking about

We really don't have such problems in AL.
22 degrees is about as cold as it gets most of the time.

ScooterDoula · Post by **ScooterDoula** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 1:37 am

illnoise wrote:Also, look for one that comes with a lead (or buy an optional lead) that you can permanently attach to your battery, and leave dangling somewhere so you're not having to constantly take your scooter apart to reach the battery.

So, anybody see anything wrong with putting a cigarette lighter adapter on the business end of the battery tender so you can quickly plug it into Buddy?

I have the Battery Tender Jr, and I've been happy with it. Makes up for the cold weather and the SilverStar headlight drain. Picked up the cig lighter adapter at Radio Shack, put it on, and it couldn't be easier to hook up (oh yeah, after I put a new outlet outside near where we keep Buddy).