need help in turning scooter

kristi · Post by **kristi** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 2:14 am

hi,
I hope you can help me, I took the MSF course and failed on my scooter because I put the brakes on while turning.
Can anyone give me some advice in taking curves. Sometimes the scooter felt like it was slowing down while turning that I had to apply the throttle then it was to fast and I put the back brake on and failed.
I want to pass this so i can get a scooter
Thanks

ScooterTrash · Post by **ScooterTrash** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 2:33 am

I'm guessing you are turning with the handle bars instead of leaning

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 2:35 am

Brake SLOWLY to a slow and comfortable speed where you can lean into the turn, make sure you look through the turn and set yourself a spot you want to aim for, the front wheel will magically go there because your body moves the bike naturally when leaning in the turn. Half way through if you're slowing down, apply minimal throttle to just propel yourself though the turn, then straighten back up and ride in the straight line.

peabody99 · Post by **peabody99** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 2:47 am

have all your breaking done BEFORE the turn. Enter the turn going pretty slow. Turn your head, Look through the turn, not at the road below you. Apply throttle to get you through the turn. But I don't need to tell you that, I am sure the instructor did

Maybe check out the book proficient motorcycling for other details like counter steering. I would not want to explain it wrong (like I have seen on the forum)and have anyone wreck

DennisD · Post by **DennisD** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 3:01 am

Turn as you would on a bicycle. Lean. Never brake in the turn. Always finish braking before the turn. Don't look at that big rock in the turn or you'll hit it. Look where you want to go, not at what you're trying to miss. Just like choosing your line when mountain biking. Only this is easier.

kazoo · Post by **kazoo** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 3:29 am

I hope you are practicing this in some Gigantic lot of some kind: Otherwise you will be to concerned with other things that you really can't afford to concern yourself with.

Good luck and Happy Holidays

Kaz

kristi · Post by **kristi** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 11:56 am

thanks for everyone's reply, I will start practicing.
My scooter was a 250 cc and the people on the motorcycles only were
150 cc. So I think mine was more difficult to contraol then theirs.
I will practice leaning, the teacher helped the motorcyclists but didn't tell
me anything.

squash1978 · Post by **squash1978** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 1:33 pm

peabody99 wrote:have all your breaking done BEFORE the turn. Enter the turn going pretty slow. Turn your head, Look through the turn, not at the road below you. Apply throttle to get you through the turn. But I don't need to tell you that, I am sure the instructor did

Yes, very good advice. You should brake before turning. My MSF instructor explained the reason for this, which I found to be very helpful. As we all know, braking is made possible by friction. When you turn (or go around a curve) on a bike there is less friction available. Therefore, if you brake while turning or going around a curve you run the risk of dropping the bike b/c there is less friction. That explanation really drilled that principal into my brain. Good luck![/b]

LisaLisa · Post by **LisaLisa** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 5:49 pm

well, FWIW, it's probably fortunate you failed that portion (especially if you plan to be riding a 250 cc scooter) because now you'll work on it. The worst crash in our MSF course was a guy who hit the brakes in a turn. And this was at 20 mph, and the front skidded (low side), so he didn't fly very far.

Brake, then turn. If you must slow in a curve, you must straighten the bike before you apply the brakes, because as the bike is leaning there is no traction left for braking.

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 7:33 pm

The engine size of a bike really doesnt mean anything when turning a bike, it's how you turn the bike with your own body and weight management.

purromaniac · Post by **purromaniac** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 4:44 am

This is how I learned to turn:

SLOW - Roll off tbe throttle, apply brakes before entering the turn.
LOOK - Look through the turn to where you want to go; turn only your head. This can be the hard part, since by nature we want to look at what is directly in front of us.
PRESS - Press on the handgrip in the direction of the turn. If you are turning right, press the right handgrip toward the ground. Many people refer to this step as leaning. It helps me to concentrate first on pressing that handgrip toward the ground, then I naturally lean in that direction.
ROLL - Roll on the throttle, maintaining speed or accelerating.

I hope this helps!

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 5:05 pm

purromaniac wrote:This is how I learned to turn:

SLOW - Roll off tbe throttle, apply brakes before entering the turn.
LOOK - Look through the turn to where you want to go; turn only your head. This can be the hard part, since by nature we want to look at what is directly in front of us.
PRESS - Press on the handgrip in the direction of the turn. If you are turning right, press the right handgrip toward the ground. Many people refer to this step as leaning. It helps me to concentrate first on pressing that handgrip toward the ground, then I naturally lean in that direction.
ROLL - Roll on the throttle, maintaining speed or accelerating.

I hope this helps!

This is the method taught when I took the MSF and pretty much has the key elements. A lot of beginners have trouble with looking through the turn, but if you look down or right in front, you'll mess up, for sure. The second part people have trouble with is accelerating through the turn.

Here's a simple way to gauge how you're turning: In general, if you go wide it means you're going too fast in the turn. If you start to tilt/fall inwards, it means you were going too slow.

Check out this pamphlet from MSF, which has some scooter-specific riding tips, including a section on turning:
http://www.msf-usa.org/downloads/Scoote ... screen.pdf

Also, someone mentioned the book Proficient Motorcycling (by David Hough). This has a lot of good instruction on turning as well.

I'm kind of surprised the MSF instructors didn't provide more help before you got to that point in the test. They should have noticed earlier you were braking in the turns.

PeterC · Post by **PeterC** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 6:04 pm

When I took the MSF course five years ago, tight turns were, for me, the most difficult part of the course. I actually did dump the bike, a Honda Nighthawk 250, once before I finally figured it out. In the five years since, I have not had occasion to make a u-turn or a 360 in the space of one parking space, but it may come in handy some day, it says here.

rabbitgod · Post by **rabbitgod** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 6:22 pm

I took the MSF course as well, recently.

I had a hard time with the accelerating through a turn. It is a very unnatural sensation. But with practice you can get over it, even have fun with it. I now take travel routes with extra curves and turns just to enjoy my ride.

Gen. Magnus · Post by **Gen. Magnus** » Sun Dec 28, 2008 1:52 pm

I just took my BRC in November and the Slow, Look, Press, and Roll is still taught. That should have been covered in your course too as well as in the book. Hell, it may have even been one of the questions on my written exam.

We had two people tumble during our course, mother and daughter actually, and both were due to breaking on a turn. As has already been said, size does not matter and it is probably a good thing that you did fail so you can practice this core element to riding.

rabbitgod wrote:I took the MSF course as well, recently.

I had a hard time with the accelerating through a turn. It is a very unnatural sensation. But with practice you can get over it, even have fun with it. I now take travel routes with extra curves and turns just to enjoy my ride.

I'm in the same boat in riding now. I never used to accelerate during turns / curves and tried to avoid really curvy roads before taking the test. Now, on the other hand, I really enjoy twisties. I still take it easy but I can enjoy them now.

LisaLisa · Post by **LisaLisa** » Wed Dec 31, 2008 6:53 am

It's true, size doesn't really matter, but people can get themselves into more trouble with bigger (faster) engines.

When I took the MSF, one of my usual mistakes during the course was that I would cover the brake and clutch in a turn, though not use them. Fortunately one of the instructors, Darryl caught me doing it every time and pointedly informed me of my error. I don't do it any more

That was only one of many mistakes I made (without crashing) at 15 mph that are big big big no no's at 45-60 mph.
Fortunately I got through the exam fine-
though in AL it means nothing, and no insurance discount with my company.

DennisD · Post by **DennisD** » Wed Dec 31, 2008 2:00 pm

LisaLisa wrote:It's true, size doesn't really matter, but people can get themselves into more trouble with bigger (faster) engines.

When I took the MSF, one of my usual mistakes during the course was that I would cover the brake and clutch in a turn, though not use them. Fortunately one of the instructors, Darryl caught me doing it every time and pointedly informed me of my error. I don't do it any more

That was only one of many mistakes I made (without crashing) at 15 mph that are big big big no no's at 45-60 mph.
Fortunately I got through the exam fine-
though in AL it means nothing, and no insurance discount with my company.

No insurance discount in Florida, but MSF is now required by state law before a motorcycle endorsement will be issued for your driver's license. That's a new law that went into effect October 1, 08.

LisaLisa · Post by **LisaLisa** » Wed Dec 31, 2008 5:26 pm

heh heh, a motorcycle endorsement can be had in AL after a ten minute tussle with a touch screen. That and 28 dollars. Mind you, this "test" is new. Used to be you got a motorcycle endorsement for breathing. 'Course, you need one for a 50cc bike too.

So in Alabama, the MSF is just a great idea for keeping yourself from getting kilt. In a way, that's great because there is no pressure at all- fail the test, and you still ride better than when you showed up. The bad thing is that because there is no requirement, it is not subsidized at all $$$. The other bad thing is that you can go out and buy a bike without knowing how to ride it. And a lot of people do- 800 cc sports and such. I believe the harley dealers do try to make sure you can sort of ride before you leave... I think.

For me, I had enough experience learning to operate vehicles under the instruction of (now fortunately) ex-spouses to know that I wanted to leave my current (adorable) husband out of it. He took the course with me (he had ridden before) and it has saved his skin several times since.

ageekgirl · Post by **ageekgirl** » Wed Dec 31, 2008 7:29 pm

Yeah, when I got my license at 16 in Alabama many, many moons ago, the DMV added a motorcycle endorsement to the cage endorsement and corrective lenses. I didn't ask for it, and was a bit puzzled by it, but ignored it since I had no bike.

Fortunately my husband is a fairly experienced and cautious MC rider, so I have a good role model and haven't had very many close calls. But I'm also very aware of how much I don't know when it comes to riding.

One of my Christmas presents this year was the money to take a MSF class! I just have to find one that I can schedule, now.

hi2525 · Post by **hi2525** » Fri Jan 02, 2009 2:23 am

Practice going around a collapsible cone for while. Then add another collapsible cone due figure 8's and bigger circles. Then just expand out.

r0sa · Post by **r0sa** » Fri Jan 02, 2009 4:15 am

the figure 8's were pretty fun, when i took the msf, this girl dropped her bike 10 times the first day we went to the lot, i felt bad for her because everytime she fell, the bike would crush her leg and she couldn't do anything about it until the instructor ran over and lifted the bike off of her

unfortunately, she failed, wasted $175, sucks for her

lobsterman · Post by **lobsterman** » Fri Jan 02, 2009 2:17 pm

r0sa wrote:the figure 8's were pretty fun, when i took the msf, this girl dropped her bike 10 times the first day we went to the lot, i felt bad for her because everytime she fell, the bike would crush her leg and she couldn't do anything about it until the instructor ran over and lifted the bike off of her unfortunately, she failed, wasted $175, sucks for her

Maybe not a waste of $175 for her - maybe that money showed her that motorcycles are not for her and saved her from buying a Ninja/Harley/whatever and killing herself on it.

bunny · Post by **bunny** » Fri Jan 02, 2009 3:44 pm

rabbitgod wrote:I took the MSF course as well, recently.

I had a hard time with the accelerating through a turn. It is a very unnatural sensation. But with practice you can get over it, even have fun with it. I now take travel routes with extra curves and turns just to enjoy my ride.

This would be me this morning...except the darned fog got my mirrors and face shield.

But I still get anxious when turning right as I am left handed. I've noticed it's a tendency to be more wobbly on turns opposite the hand you write with. My OH told me that slowing down and walking the bike through the turn was the best way to learn how to turn without fear of falling adn then work yourself up to actually riding through the turn.

Modern Buddy

need help in turning scooter

need help in turning scooter

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