Local dealer dumps the buddy

brandie722 · Post by **brandie722** » Mon Jan 05, 2009 4:13 am

So I called a dealer today in Oceanside that was previously listed on genuinescooters as an authorized dealer. I wanted to get a quote to see how much a valve check or adjustment (whatever is supposed to get done during the 1st service) would cost....during the conversation I asked why he's not on the dealer list anymore, and he said that Vespa did some sort of conference/ meeting/ presentation for their shop comparing their Vespa scooters engine against the Buddy's engine. It basically got some message across to him that the Buddy's engine is a piece of junk and as a result that motorcycle shop dropped their purchase of the Buddy scooters . Has anyone heard of what this issue might be?? As a new Buddy owner, this is a little unsettling, though I do realize that Vespas are much more expensive than the Buddy, and pretty much used as a standard for comparison as far as scooters go, but still---I hope my Buddy doesn't turn out to be a POS

Any thoughts?

Brandie

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Mon Jan 05, 2009 4:25 am

Not to be controversial....

But vespa's 150cc leader engine is made in china, while the buddy's is made in taiwan.

Taiwan's engineering has been top of the line for years, just as good as japanese, or even better.

Italian made engines have been great quality, but to compete in the market, Piaggio decided to cut cost and build bikes and engines in China. Vespas are made in Italy still, but engines are assembled in a Chinese factory.

China is the #1 crappy scooter exporter, land of "$999 FREE SHIPPING TO YOUR DOOR" bikes.

Though certain chinese bikes have been great quality recently, and vespa is over seeing production in the factory, there is still a eery feeling that someday something will go wrong, like a recall on bikes in the future.

Vespas are still great bikes, but for them to call PGO's engines crap, that isnt fair, PGO works with freakin NASA (the one that makes rockets and sent a man onto the moon) to build engines, PGO engines are built with NASA grade materials which are tougher and longer lasting. I cant see how a engine made of higher quality materials, and is more fuel efficient is crappier than a chinese made vespa engine.

In another 20-30 years, Vespas will probably be 100% Chinese built, china's taking over all the companies in this world, kymco, and other great brands are already starting to creep into becoming a chinese company.

mattgordon · Post by **mattgordon** » Mon Jan 05, 2009 4:33 am

brandie722 wrote:So I called a dealer today in Oceanside that was previously listed on genuinescooters as an authorized dealer. I wanted to get a quote to see how much a valve check or adjustment (whatever is supposed to get done during the 1st service) would cost....during the conversation I asked why he's not on the dealer list anymore, and he said that Vespa did some sort of conference/ meeting/ presentation for their shop comparing their Vespa scooters engine against the Buddy's engine. It basically got some message across to him that the Buddy's engine is a piece of junk and as a result that motorcycle shop dropped their purchase of the Buddy scooters . Has anyone heard of what this issue might be?? As a new Buddy owner, this is a little unsettling, though I do realize that Vespas are much more expensive than the Buddy, and pretty much used as a standard for comparison as far as scooters go, but still---I hope my Buddy doesn't turn out to be a POS

Any thoughts?

Brandie

Brandie,

Your Buddy isn't junk. It's a fine scooter, and frankly for the price the best value in the scootering business. Best warranty, best Roadside coverage, most compassionate "corporation" behind them. From the top down at Genuine Scooters, they actually LOVE scooters. Piaggio is a gigantic corporation, essentially the GM of European motorcycle/scooter manufacturers and it's a David and Goliath kind of thing. Piaggio builds planes, Vespas, Moto Guzzi, Aprilias....like that. Conglomerate.

What the dealer did NOT tell you, is that they, and some other "new" Genuine scooter dealers bailed out before they got started with the product for POLITICAL reasons, not quality reasons. Business reasons.

Sure, Piaggio presented it that way, but what many people don't know is the Genuine Scooters is actually the product of, and initially financed by a lawsuit Piaggio LOST, to Philip McCaleb of Scooterworks over some other issues. Phil parlayed his award, into Genuine Scooter Co., and has brilliantly marketed the PGO Manufactured BUBu, into the Genuine Buddy...and significantly chewed into Piaggio's piece of the scooter-pie (PUN intended) in the process. Point being, Piaggio has a separate agenda, and it has spooked some of their dealerships OUT of carrying a competitive line of product.

I have been a scooterist for, well along time (my first scooter in the early '80's) and have owned many makes. I presently have a Vespa, a Piaggio Mp3, and a Genuine Rattler. My wife has a Vespa, and a Buddy. We've had ZERO issues with either Genuine product. I cannot make the same statement regarding ANY of my present, or previous Piaggio scooters. In fact my wife's '06 Vespa GT200L is leaking coolant on my garage floor as we speak, a new development at just 6000 miles....

I have become so enamored with the Buddy BlackJack 150, I have one on the tip of my tongue, pending the sale of my Rattler...(pass it along!)

Go to Motorsport Scooters for your service. They've been in business for nearly 17 years, LOVE the Buddys, and have a super competent and fair service department. They will treat you right, and help you keep that Buddy running properly and providing fun and transportation for a long, long time.

Don't regret your Buddy. It's a fine machine...not perfect, but none of them are. Have it serviced by an authorized service center, per the book and you should have minimal grief and no regrets.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Mon Jan 05, 2009 1:53 pm

Don't even think of kicks tarting the Vespa Leader motor. On the other hand a couple of months ago my Givi brake light shorted out when my rear rack (the original design) broke and blew the fuse. I didn't have a fuse with me but I was able to kickstart the Buddy and pick one up at the auto parts store.

SDG · Post by **SDG** » Mon Jan 05, 2009 4:55 pm

mattgordon wrote:
brandie722 wrote:So I called a dealer today in Oceanside that was previously listed on genuinescooters as an authorized dealer. I wanted to get a quote to see how much a valve check or adjustment (whatever is supposed to get done during the 1st service) would cost....during the conversation I asked why he's not on the dealer list anymore, and he said that Vespa did some sort of conference/ meeting/ presentation for their shop comparing their Vespa scooters engine against the Buddy's engine. It basically got some message across to him that the Buddy's engine is a piece of junk and as a result that motorcycle shop dropped their purchase of the Buddy scooters . Has anyone heard of what this issue might be?? As a new Buddy owner, this is a little unsettling, though I do realize that Vespas are much more expensive than the Buddy, and pretty much used as a standard for comparison as far as scooters go, but still---I hope my Buddy doesn't turn out to be a POS

Any thoughts?

Brandie
Brandie,

Your Buddy isn't junk. It's a fine scooter, and frankly for the price the best value in the scootering business. Best warranty, best Roadside coverage, most compassionate "corporation" behind them. From the top down at Genuine Scooters, they actually LOVE scooters. Piaggio is a gigantic corporation, essentially the GM of European motorcycle/scooter manufacturers and it's a David and Goliath kind of thing. Piaggio builds planes, Vespas, Moto Guzzi, Aprilias....like that. Conglomerate.

What the dealer did NOT tell you, is that they, and some other "new" Genuine scooter dealers bailed out before they got started with the product for POLITICAL reasons, not quality reasons. Business reasons.

Sure, Piaggio presented it that way, but what many people don't know is the Genuine Scooters is actually the product of, and initially financed by a lawsuit Piaggio LOST, to Philip McCaleb of Scooterworks over some other issues. Phil parlayed his award, into Genuine Scooter Co., and has brilliantly marketed the PGO Manufactured BUBu, into the Genuine Buddy...and significantly chewed into Piaggio's piece of the scooter-pie (PUN intended) in the process. Point being, Piaggio has a separate agenda, and it has spooked some of their dealerships OUT of carrying a competitive line of product.

I have been a scooterist for, well along time (my first scooter in the early '80's) and have owned many makes. I presently have a Vespa, a Piaggio Mp3, and a Genuine Rattler. My wife has a Vespa, and a Buddy. We've had ZERO issues with either Genuine product. I cannot make the same statement regarding ANY of my present, or previous Piaggio scooters. In fact my wife's '06 Vespa GT200L is leaking coolant on my garage floor as we speak, a new development at just 6000 miles....

I have become so enamored with the Buddy BlackJack 150, I have one on the tip of my tongue, pending the sale of my Rattler...(pass it along!)

Go to Motorsport Scooters for your service. They've been in business for nearly 17 years, LOVE the Buddys, and have a super competent and fair service department. They will treat you right, and help you keep that Buddy running properly and providing fun and transportation for a long, long time.

Don't regret your Buddy. It's a fine machine...not perfect, but none of them are. Have it serviced by an authorized service center, per the book and you should have minimal grief and no regrets.

Matt,

Great post. Not quite black and white on the political/quality/business reasons however your post in its entirety is extremely insightful. No point in breaking it all down again for me, I am more of a "whats next" kind of guy.

Hey, I just like peep's with scooters, don't really care what they ride.

Hope you get that Blackjack soon, its driving you nuts, haha.

Best,
SDG

lobsterman · Post by **lobsterman** » Mon Jan 05, 2009 4:56 pm

Brandie,

Don't sweat it, you've got a good quality scooter. Many here have put substantial miles on them, bonegirl just posted in Cincinnati that she passed 26,666 miles on hers this weekend. Alex rode hers hundreds of miles daily for two major trips in 2007/2008 to draw a peace sign on the United States (to promote peace obviously). See http://www.peacescooter.com/route/

I have personally been to the office of major corporate giants for tech briefings and been really turned off by presentations where they attack a specific competitors product. I want to know what a company thinks is good and noteworthy from a product they make/sell, I don't really want to hear Company A say they think Company B makes a crappy product. It's a lousy way to do business and the product of a poor sales strategy in my opinion.

Sure Vespa makes a great product, but don't doubt the Buddy you bought.

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Mon Jan 05, 2009 5:51 pm

I'll chime in here with the fact that I've got 11,000 miles on my Buddy since March. Thats a LOT of riding(At least 50mi a day!) Its never had a single issue. If the Buddy were a cheap scooter, it would likely be well past worn out and used up at this point. My aunt bought a Diamo Retro around the same time as I got my Buddy. She started to have major problems at only 600 miles. It had a total engine failure at 1000. The shop she took it to for repairs(P-Town scooters) said that they had NEVER seen a Diamo make it over 1500mi.

Yes, Vespa's are fantastic bikes. So are Buddy's

bluebuddygirl · Post by **bluebuddygirl** » Mon Jan 05, 2009 6:04 pm

Basically the dealer fell for a good sales pitch. Shame really. They could carry both Genuine and Vespa and then make an informed decision for themselves.

rayk · Post by **rayk** » Mon Jan 05, 2009 6:23 pm

Brandi,

I agree with mattgordon's comments on Motorsport Scooters. They are a great shop; friendly staff, knowledgeable, and fair. And they do love Buddy's (and own them themselves).

rayk

olhogrider · Post by **olhogrider** » Mon Jan 05, 2009 6:53 pm

Brandi, I agree with what everyone here has posted. Many years ago, in my Harley riding days, the parts man at the local dealership was bad-mouthing a local "chopper shop". The owner heard this and explained that "We don't talk bad about other shops. People come to us because we provide a better product and better service" Clearly your local dealer does not follow that philosophy. I would avoid doing business with them in the future.

Post by **ericalm** » Mon Jan 05, 2009 6:55 pm

There's a lot to this issue, but the basic fact is that it's all about competition. The Buddy became the big seller of the summer and gained huge market share. Vespa came out swinging at their dealer meeting. Yeah, there's a lot of history involved between the people involved but it all comes down to the fact that Vespa was losing sales in the 125/150cc segment to Genuine despite the fact that both companies had huge growth over the summer. There's also the fact that some of the highest volume Vespa dealers in the country quickly became the highest volume Genuine dealers in the country. So Vespa is actively discouraging its dealers from carrying Genuine as well.

Keep in mind that most Vespa dealers also carry the lower-priced Piaggio and Aprilia models. On the sales floor, the Buddy, in particular, probably poses a greater threat to these scooters (especially the Fly, which is plastic-bodied, like the Buddy, and now assembled in China).

A lot of new scooter buyers intend to buy a Vespa at first because that's all they know. Many of them get severe sticker shock when they walk into a dealer for the first time and see the price on a Vespa. People who want a Vespa but can't afford one often wind up buying a Buddy—especially when it's sitting next to the Vespa on the showroom floor. (No, this does not mean all Buddy owners are wannabe Vespa owners, just a lot of them.

)

I own both and have often said that they're very different machines, each with their own pluses and minuses. Please let's not do (another) comparison of the two and pointing out all of the Vespa's flaws. I invariably find myself in the position of being the Vespa defender and having to point out the Buddy's shortcomings! While I won't defend Piaggio Vespa USA (the company), I do stand by the LX, which is an excellent scooter. I also obviously stand by the Buddy (and other Genuines), or I wouldn't be running this forum.

olhogrider · Post by **olhogrider** » Mon Jan 05, 2009 6:57 pm

BTW, my Chinese scooter had three major failures in 1500 miles. My Vespa had one major failure in 5000 miles. My Buddy had a minor leak at 1000 miles (I fixed it myself) and nothing more in several thousand miles. You got a good scooter, just a lousy dealer.

brandie722 · Post by **brandie722** » Mon Jan 05, 2009 7:43 pm

Wow, thanks everyone! I feel much better in my purchase. It is shocking to find out how down and dirty businesses can be when it comes to trying to get rid of their competition. Shame on you Vespa!

sunshinen · Post by **sunshinen** » Mon Jan 05, 2009 7:48 pm

Sounds like Vespa's feeling threatened...

Bad engines speak for themselves. Dealers shouldn't need to be told by (or listen to) a competing brand which scooters are not reliable. If they've carried the vehicle, they should be able to tell you themselves how reliable it is.

kazoo · Post by **kazoo** » Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:18 pm

If we can agree the dealer stands to make most of their income from maintenance; then following the logic they gave you, they would want to sell them exclusively.

It would be kind of neat to have a mileage poll run right about now. But since I'm a little dinker, I'll let someone else start it.

Kaz

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:25 pm

I think the reliability and performance of the PGO engine in the Buddy speaks for itself as is well documented on this site. The Vespa line is priced well above most of the competition (one term for that is "overpriced"), so it leaves lots of room for scoots that are a better value for the dollar (I don't mean to knock anyone's Vespa here, just bang per buck). Other Piaggio products have not been very effective at filling in that lower cost niche. Many Vespa dealers have picked up the Buddy or other product lines for that reason. Piaggio/Vespa is not happy about that and has pressured dealers doing this. Many now operate like they were two different dealerships rather than "Vespa of Happytown" also selling Buddys. Stellas, etc. Hey, it's a competitive marketplace out there. That is precisely what leads to good values like the Buddy.

gt1000 · Post by **gt1000** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 3:31 am

Ericalm, mattgordon and others have given excellent explanations of why your ex-dealer chose to act the way he did. However, I find it hard to believe that any competent dealer would be gullible enough to blindly drink the Piaggio kool aid and simply walk away from Genuine. Something else is going on here.

Frankly, I don't care what else is going on. I just feel that it needs to be said that your ex-dealer acted in an extremely unprofessional and possibly dishonest way. I'd never go back to him for anything.

rajron · Post by **rajron** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 4:06 am

The local dealer I purchased my Buddy from folded, or something; an Genuine Scooter was picked up by a new Vespa dealer in town. They now sell Vespa, Piaggio, SYM, Kymco, and Genuine! – The owner of the scooter dealership also sells Smart Cars next door to the scooter dealership.

SDG · Post by **SDG** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 5:42 am

gt1000 wrote:Ericalm, mattgordon and others have given excellent explanations of why your ex-dealer chose to act the way he did. However, I find it hard to believe that any competent dealer would be gullible enough to blindly drink the Piaggio kool aid and simply walk away from Genuine. Something else is going on here.

Frankly, I don't care what else is going on. I just feel that it needs to be said that your ex-dealer acted in an extremely unprofessional and possibly dishonest way. I'd never go back to him for anything.

This is a can of worms that you really don't want to open up and you are completely misinformed on the entire situation. Lets all ride scooters of any brand and be happy.

If you REALLY believe in what you say open up your own Vespa/Genuine dealership and get er done.

Best,
SDG

Drumwoulf · Post by **Drumwoulf** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 6:30 am

brandie722 wrote: It basically got some message across to him that the Buddy's engine is a piece of junk and as a result that motorcycle shop dropped their purchase of the Buddy scooters . Has anyone heard of what this issue might be?? As a new Buddy owner, this is a little unsettling, though I do realize that Vespas are much more expensive than the Buddy, and pretty much used as a standard for comparison as far as scooters go, but still---I hope my Buddy doesn't turn out to be a POS
Any thoughts?
Brandie

Yeah. You got screwed.
The Buddy is a POS.
The Vespa is a leading shining star.
Nothing on two wheels is better.
Nothing even comes close to it.
So get up your 5+ G's and go buy one.
And go away.
And leave us Buddy fanatics alone..!

(Does THAT satisfy you now?)

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 7:49 am

Drumwoulf wrote:
brandie722 wrote: It basically got some message across to him that the Buddy's engine is a piece of junk and as a result that motorcycle shop dropped their purchase of the Buddy scooters . Has anyone heard of what this issue might be?? As a new Buddy owner, this is a little unsettling, though I do realize that Vespas are much more expensive than the Buddy, and pretty much used as a standard for comparison as far as scooters go, but still---I hope my Buddy doesn't turn out to be a POS
Any thoughts?
Brandie
Yeah. You got screwed.
The Buddy is a POS.
The Vespa is a leading shining star.
Nothing on two wheels is better.
Nothing even comes close to it.
So get up your 5+ G's and go buy one.
And go away.
And leave us Buddy fanatics alone..!
(Does THAT satisfy you now?)

A new owner asked a sincere and reasonable question. If the most knowledgeable person I came in contact with told me the scooter I just bought was crap, I'd be concerned, too. No need to take a sarcasm dump on it.

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 7:56 am

SDG wrote:
gt1000 wrote:Ericalm, mattgordon and others have given excellent explanations of why your ex-dealer chose to act the way he did. However, I find it hard to believe that any competent dealer would be gullible enough to blindly drink the Piaggio kool aid and simply walk away from Genuine. Something else is going on here.

Frankly, I don't care what else is going on. I just feel that it needs to be said that your ex-dealer acted in an extremely unprofessional and possibly dishonest way. I'd never go back to him for anything.
This is a can of worms that you really don't want to open up and you are completely misinformed on the entire situation. Lets all ride scooters of any brand and be happy.

If you REALLY believe in what you say open up your own Vespa/Genuine dealership and get er done.

In the interest of full disclosure, not everyone in this thread may know that you own a Vespa dealership that was going to carry Genuine, but now isn't (for all those reasons in that can of worms we're avoiding opening).

You only post here because you enjoy our company, right?

Various conspiracy theories, rumors and trash talking regarding Genuine and Vespa have existed for some time now and will continue, but let's all try not to get too pissy about it.

Drumwoulf · Post by **Drumwoulf** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 3:37 pm

ericalm wrote:
Drumwoulf wrote:
brandie722 wrote: It basically got some message across to him that the Buddy's engine is a piece of junk and as a result that motorcycle shop dropped their purchase of the Buddy scooters . Has anyone heard of what this issue might be?? As a new Buddy owner, this is a little unsettling, though I do realize that Vespas are much more expensive than the Buddy, and pretty much used as a standard for comparison as far as scooters go, but still---I hope my Buddy doesn't turn out to be a POS
Any thoughts?
Brandie
Yeah. You got screwed.
The Buddy is a POS.
The Vespa is a leading shining star.
Nothing on two wheels is better.
Nothing even comes close to it.
So get up your 5+ G's and go buy one.
And go away.
And leave us Buddy fanatics alone..!
(Does THAT satisfy you now?)
A new owner asked a sincere and reasonable question. If the most knowledgeable person I came in contact with told me the scooter I just bought was crap, I'd be concerned, too. No need to take a sarcasm dump on it.

I dunno, I take exception to people who come onto a scooter forum where they know people are all talking about a scooter they like and feel very positive about, and ask if that scooter is a POS! Hell, all she's gotta do is read thru some of the thousands of positive posts here to find how good we feel about owning and riding Buddys, right?
-Strikes me that her post is just her enjoying being provocative, and a bit of a ~troll~!!

SDG · Post by **SDG** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 3:44 pm

ericalm wrote:
You only post here because you enjoy our company, right?
.

Absolutely Eric !! I post here rarely but only because I love scooters. I know quite a few of you peep's and dig every one of ya!

I just feel bad that someone along this thread said "shame on Vespa" based on statements learned from a Vespa dealer in Oceanside.

My point regarding the can of worms is there are 2 sides to every story however in this case it really doesn't matter anymore. Enjoy the ride, whatever you ride.

Cheerio and happy 2009,
David

gt1000 · Post by **gt1000** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 3:56 pm

ericalm wrote:
SDG wrote:
gt1000 wrote:Ericalm, mattgordon and others have given excellent explanations of why your ex-dealer chose to act the way he did. However, I find it hard to believe that any competent dealer would be gullible enough to blindly drink the Piaggio kool aid and simply walk away from Genuine. Something else is going on here.

Frankly, I don't care what else is going on. I just feel that it needs to be said that your ex-dealer acted in an extremely unprofessional and possibly dishonest way. I'd never go back to him for anything.
This is a can of worms that you really don't want to open up and you are completely misinformed on the entire situation. Lets all ride scooters of any brand and be happy.

If you REALLY believe in what you say open up your own Vespa/Genuine dealership and get er done.
In the interest of full disclosure, not everyone in this thread may know that you own a Vespa dealership that was going to carry Genuine, but now isn't (for all those reasons in that can of worms we're avoiding opening).

You only post here because you enjoy our company, right?

Various conspiracy theories, rumors and trash talking regarding Genuine and Vespa have existed for some time now and will continue, but let's all try not to get too pissy about it.

Since ericalm has already addressed your response, let me just say one thing. This is mean to clarify, not antagonize.

If I'm working with a dealership and said dealership trashes a competing brand, I walk away. Oh, I suppose I wouldn't take it so seriously if I was shopping for refrigerators, but with vehicles, audio, video, etc., I take this very seriously. So, switching things up a bit, if I'm at the local Porsche dealer checking out the new Cayman S and a sales guy tells me that the Lotus Elise is prone to engine failures, I ask for a new salesperson or leave the dealership if all of their salespeople do business that way. I like to hear pluses and minuses, but scare tactics are out of line.

And honestly, why would I want to open a scooter dealership when I can already walk to two competing Vespa dealerships, one of which also carries Genuine? If the current climate makes it difficult or impossible to sell both brands under the same roof, that's unfortunate but fine with me. Just don't trash the competition.

gt1000 · Post by **gt1000** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 3:59 pm

SDG wrote:
ericalm wrote:
You only post here because you enjoy our company, right?
.
Absolutely Eric !! I post here rarely but only because I love scooters. I know quite a few of you peep's and dig every one of ya!

I just feel bad that someone along this thread said "shame on Vespa" based on statements learned from a Vespa dealer in Oceanside.

My point regarding the can of worms is there are 2 sides to every story however in this case it really doesn't matter anymore. Enjoy the ride, whatever you ride.

Cheerio and happy 2009,
David

FWIW, the intent of my post was to say "shame on the dealer", not Vespa. I thought it was clear before, hopefully it's clearer now.

SDG · Post by **SDG** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 4:04 pm

gt1000 wrote:
If I'm working with a dealership and said dealership trashes a competing brand, I walk away. Oh, I suppose I wouldn't take it so seriously if I was shopping for refrigerators, but with vehicles, audio, video, etc., I take this very seriously. So, switching things up a bit, if I'm at the local Porsche dealer checking out the new Cayman S and a sales guy tells me that the Lotus Elise is prone to engine failures, I ask for a new salesperson or leave the dealership if all of their salespeople do business that way. I like to hear pluses and minuses, but scare tactics are out of line.

Agree, and consumers aren't given enough credit generally speaking however we know at our shop that "the homework" was done long before they came in. Other brands are spoken about maybe with 1 out of 10 clients in our shop.

Also though GT lets be honest about something. A salesman doesn't make the sale with guys like us, if I want to purchase a new Cayman S I will and there is no salesman that is going to entice me or push me away. I will just buy it, period. That's how most peeps roll these days compliments of the internet highway and the vast knowledge available.

Best,
SDG

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 4:07 pm

Their business will be hurt, that's like going to Best Buy and seeing they only sell one brand of TV's.

A wide variety of GOOD bikes will bring in all types of business.

I find this comment made by vespa very funny, because back in the 70's vespa and PGO were partners in making engines, PGO was the little vespa outpost in eastern asia. After the partnership ended, they began making their own vespa styled bikes.

Really if vespa is calling PGO crap, they're calling their own bikes crap.

gt1000 · Post by **gt1000** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 4:20 pm

Also though GT lets be honest about something. A salesman doesn't make the sale with guys like us, if I want to purchase a new Cayman S I will and there is no salesman that is going to entice me or push me away. I will just buy it, period. That's how most peeps roll these days compliments of the internet highway and the vast knowledge available.

As far as I know, you and I have never met so I've got to give you props for insight, based on the above quote. You're absolutely right. When I'm looking for vehicles I pretty much narrow the field to the real contenders before actually visiting dealerships and then test driving. What I'm looking for in a salesperson is whether they're just a salesperson (who could be selling anything) or something closer to an enthusiast, with relevant knowledge about their products and their competing brands. For example, during our last round of car shopping about a year ago, we visited Acura, BMW, Mini, Honda, VW and Audi dealerships. All were pretty good exept the VW folks, who really surprised me with their lack of knowledge.

Oh, and I've got a feeling I might actually prefer the Elise.

SDG · Post by **SDG** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 4:49 pm

gt1000 wrote:
Also though GT lets be honest about something. A salesman doesn't make the sale with guys like us, if I want to purchase a new Cayman S I will and there is no salesman that is going to entice me or push me away. I will just buy it, period. That's how most peeps roll these days compliments of the internet highway and the vast knowledge available.
As far as I know, you and I have never met so I've got to give you props for insight, based on the above quote. You're absolutely right. When I'm looking for vehicles I pretty much narrow the field to the real contenders before actually visiting dealerships and then test driving. What I'm looking for in a salesperson is whether they're just a salesperson (who could be selling anything) or something closer to an enthusiast, with relevant knowledge about their products and their competing brands. For example, during our last round of car shopping about a year ago, we visited Acura, BMW, Mini, Honda, VW and Audi dealerships. All were pretty good exept the VW folks, who really surprised me with their lack of knowledge.

Oh, and I've got a feeling I might actually prefer the Elise.

+1000

Completely agree, remember I happen to own a scooter shop however I too am a consumer (often cough cough) and would prefer to be known as a "scooter guy" and a good family man. Elise? Ya, sure, why not, haha.

SDG

Vic · Post by **Vic** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 5:08 pm

Kaos wrote:<snip> My aunt bought a Diamo Retro around the same time as I got my Buddy. She started to have major problems at only 600 miles. It had a total engine failure at 1000. The shop she took it to for repairs(P-Town scooters) said that they had NEVER seen a Diamo make it over 1500mi.

I had a Diamo Retro 150cc, rode it with no problems for about 2700 miles. I then needed a new tire and had a warranty replacement of the carb. I rode it for about another 300 miles and got the opportunity to get a Buddy so took it.

The Diamo is not of the same class as the Buddy, I do not mean to imply that it is, it is a $1700 scooter. They do have an excellent warranty (2 year) and if you have a good shop that will take care of you (like I did Columbus Ohio Kickstart Scooters) it is a reasonable try-it-to-see-if-you-like-it scooter. Particularly given the 2 year warranty!

The Buddy is a vastly superior machine, if you are fortunate and don't have problems. I have managed to put less than 1000 miles on mine since purchasing it and it has spent more miles in the back of a truck than with me in the saddle, it is in the shop (again). However, when it is running, the differences are really remarkable, it is obvious from the begining that the Buddy is a good piece of equipment.

This is one woman's experience, of course.

-v

Post by **jmazza** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 5:42 pm

Just to throw in a little light anecdote about Vespa dealers and Genuine, my Buddy is currently at the local Vespa dealer for service (they are significantly closer than my original dealer- as in I can walk home from them or ride 45 min to where I bought my scooter, so while I don't like not giving the shop I bought from the work, the convenience factor of a neighborhood dealer has won out) and they've been nothing but great so far. They don't carry Genuine, but have expressed respect for the brand, and were happy to have my service business.

Interestingly, they are part of a same-owner network of Vespa dealers and out of the three, they are the only ones who don't carry Genuine which I think has more to do with the fact that they carry Kymco than it does with the fact they are a Vespa dealer.

As I'm sure everyone realizes in this thread, there's a lot of opinion and he said / she said in this situation. I agree that the salesperson should have never talked about what went on at a Vespa dealer meeting, but after that it's a big game of telephone anyway.

We all know the Buddy is a great choice for the right rider. So is just about every other reputable scooter out there, whether Vespa, Sym, Kymco, etc. Enjoy what you ride. I know I will when I pick mine up in a few hours with new tires!!!!

And Brandie- I'll add that you're going to most likely really really love your new scooter!!!

ellen · Post by **ellen** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:50 am

We have a local Dealer, Cliff's BMW in Brookfield CT who recently dropped Genuine and now sells Schwinn. I don't get it.

SDG · Post by **SDG** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 3:06 am

ellen wrote:We have a local Dealer, Cliff's BMW in Brookfield CT who recently dropped Genuine and now sells Schwinn. I don't get it.

I wish they knew of the site and told us why.

SDG

sunshinen · Post by **sunshinen** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 4:11 am

Drumwoulf wrote: I dunno, I take exception to people who come onto a scooter forum where they know people are all talking about a scooter they like and feel very positive about, and ask if that scooter is a POS! Hell, all she's gotta do is read thru some of the thousands of positive posts here to find how good we feel about owning and riding Buddys, right?
-Strikes me that her post is just her enjoying being provocative, and a bit of a ~troll~!!

"A witch a witch! May we burn her??"

Strikes me that Brandy is not the one being provocative... could someone be on a slightly overly aggressive troll hunt.

Brandy's question seems more like going to a very nice nun and confessing you have doubts about converting to Catholicism because some Mormon came to your door and told you that your brand of Christianity is going to land you in hell. Why go to the nun, rather than an atheist or another Mormon? Because you want encouragement about your decision, not because you want to provoke her. (Just so we're clear, THIS IS A METAPHOR -- and a silly movie quote -- NOT a religious promotion, condemnation, or discussion.

)

Brandy even came back and thanked us for our encouragement... well, before all this nonsense and sarcasm broke out, at least.

I'm pretty sure gratitude is not the typical attitude of a troll. It's the rest of us that turned her post into a can of worms.

Drumwoulf · Post by **Drumwoulf** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 9:57 am

sunshinen wrote:
Drumwoulf wrote: I dunno, I take exception to people who come onto a scooter forum where they know people are all talking about a scooter they like and feel very positive about, and ask if that scooter is a POS! Hell, all she's gotta do is read thru some of the thousands of positive posts here to find how good we feel about owning and riding Buddys, right?
-Strikes me that her post is just her enjoying being provocative, and a bit of a ~troll~!!
"A witch a witch! May we burn her??"

Strikes me that Brandy is not the one being provocative... could someone be on a slightly overly aggressive troll hunt.

Brandy's question seems more like going to a very nice nun and confessing you have doubts about converting to Catholicism because some Mormon came to your door and told you that your brand of Christianity is going to land you in hell. Why go to the nun, rather than an atheist or another Mormon? Because you want encouragement about your decision, not because you want to provoke her. (Just so we're clear, THIS IS A METAPHOR -- and a silly movie quote -- NOT a religious promotion, condemnation, or discussion. )

Brandy even came back and thanked us for our encouragement... well, before all this nonsense and sarcasm broke out, at least.

I'm pretty sure gratitude is not the typical attitude of a troll. It's the rest of us that turned her post into a can of worms.

And you got the can opener to keep it going, right?

Besides, I don't like nuns. They're way too chaste for me....

Motorsport Scooters · Sun Jan 11, 2009 12:11 am

We fix them all, and the Buddies are the best bikes in America today. I have no hesitation in saying that. If we can be of help to you, please let us know. I know we're a little farther away, but we do get customers from all over Southern California and even Arizona.

DennisD · Post by **DennisD** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:28 am

I like my Buddy.

I like my dealer.

I like the MB forum.

And I like Motorsport Scooters because they didn't laugh at me when I screwed up the installation and had to buy a third rear turn signal for my Vino.

San Francisco · Post by **San Francisco** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:44 am

Brandie... see my forum join date. I have had the Buddy here on the hills of San Francisco since that time.

My Buddy has run without incident and is one of the best scooters I have ever owned. [Have had maybe a hundred or so.] Barry of San Francisco Scooter Centre is who turned me on to the Buddy and he was spot on in his advice.

If the Buddy was a crappy scooter it would not have run as well as it has all this time. San Francisco hills are very tough on vehicles.

And the entire scooter has held up very well. The plastic, trim, everything has been flawless.

You can rest easy. That was just Vespa thinking the best way to compete is to bad mouth competitors. I am surprised a dealer fell for it.

Sidenote: A member e-mailed me and asked why I had not posted since May 2007. I told him why. See you all in another two years.

Kurt · Post by **Kurt** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:55 am

Motorsport Scooters wrote:We fix them all, and the Buddies are the best bikes in America today. I have no hesitation in saying that. If we can be of help to you, please let us know. I know we're a little farther away, but we do get customers from all over Southern California and even Arizona.

I've got to agree with Max - we've had far fewer Buddies in for repairs than any other make and model.

Someone earlier mentioned Schwinn. We also sell Schwinn scooters, and I regard them as the best quality of the scooters made in mainland China. That said, you can't beat the quality of the Taiwanese-made Buddy.

People buy different scooters for different reasons. If you're looking for a high quality, affordable fun machine, you can't beat a Buddy!

SDG · Post by **SDG** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 6:07 pm

Motorsport Scooters wrote:We fix them all, and the Buddies are the best bikes in America today. I have no hesitation in saying that. If we can be of help to you, please let us know. I know we're a little farther away, but we do get customers from all over Southern California and even Arizona.

And the Governor of Illinois is doing a great job also haha, Max, Max...Anything with two wheels are the best, right?

Happy New Year !!

SDG

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 8:56 pm

Okay, SDG. I'll bite. Does Thousand Oaks service Buddys? If so, what do you think about them mechanically. If not, I guess you wouldn't have an opinion.

jeremymiller · Post by **jeremymiller** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 9:10 pm

My first scooter was a 2008 Tank. That's pretty much a Schwinn for those of you that don't know.

He was stolen

, but while I had it, it was a great scoot. My flatmate bought one the same time I did. Same everything except for the color. His doesn't run nearly as good as mine did, which is a damned shame. After my tank was stolen I was about to buy a Kymco. A friend of mine that started me off with scooters (and has a Schwinn) said I should test drive a buddy.

As soon as I saw the buddy and the quality it was, before riding it, I knew that it was a better bet than the Kymco. Schwinns and tanks are alright in my opinion...but the buddy is totally incomparable. It's such a great scoot.

SDG · Post by **SDG** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 9:21 pm

Dooglas wrote:Okay, SDG. I'll bite. Does Thousand Oaks service Buddys? If so, what do you think about them mechanically. If not, I guess you wouldn't have an opinion.

We have knowledge of them for sure, just like Matt G has posted owning both. What about you? A Vino and a Buddy, what are your +'s and -"s?

SDG

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 10:00 pm

Regarding the Buddy 125 and Vino 125, my experience has been that they are similar in terms of mechanical design, construction, and reliability. The Buddy is definitely somewhat quicker than the Vino. The quality of finish and appearance of the Vino exterior is somewhat better. Vino parts are somewhat more expensive than Buddy parts but availability seems to be good. So far, the Vino seems to have a somewhat lower resale value than the Buddy - or to say it the other way around, the Vino is a better buy used. The Vino comes standard with a small luggage rack but the presence of the exterior fuel fill means that there are very limited choices for other racks/ topcases, etc. I like the standard seat on the Buddy better than the Vino. I have changed out the Vino seat for a TNG model. Both the Vino and the Buddy seem to accomodate smaller riders better than some other designs such as the LX150. My 5'2" SO rides either with no trouble. We ride a Vino and Buddy together all the time. They match up with each other pretty well IMO.

DennisD · Post by **DennisD** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 11:33 pm

Dooglas wrote:Regarding the Buddy 125 and Vino 125, my experience has been that they are similar in terms of mechanical design, construction, and reliability. The Buddy is definitely somewhat quicker than the Vino. The quality of finish and appearance of the Vino exterior is somewhat better. Vino parts are somewhat more expensive than Buddy parts but availability seems to be good. So far, the Vino seems to have a somewhat lower resale value than the Buddy - or to say it the other way around, the Vino is a better buy used. The Vino comes standard with a small luggage rack but the presence of the exterior fuel fill means that there are very limited choices for other racks/ topcases, etc. I like the standard seat on the Buddy better than the Vino. I have changed out the Vino seat for a TNG model. Both the Vino and the Buddy seem to accomodate smaller riders better than some other designs such as the LX150. My 5'2" SO rides either with no trouble. We ride a Vino and Buddy together all the time. They match up with each other pretty well IMO.

Hear, hear! I agree on all counts. I own both and like them. You pointed out all the points I would have mentioned. Haven't changed out the Vino seat but have considered it. Did the TNG model make a big difference?

kathygnome · Post by **kathygnome** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:49 am

I ride a Vespa, the dealer is on the pipe. Buddies are great scooters and if they had been in stock last August when I was looking to buy, I would be riding one instead of the Vespa.

ellen · Post by **ellen** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 2:02 am

SDG wrote:
ellen wrote:We have a local Dealer, Cliff's BMW in Brookfield CT who recently dropped Genuine and now sells Schwinn. I don't get it.
I wish they knew of the site and told us why.

SDG

I did ask and they said they had a hard time getting parts from Genuine. Though I don't hear other dealers in the area saying that. So who knows.

Post by **ericalm** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 2:22 am

ellen wrote:
SDG wrote:
ellen wrote:We have a local Dealer, Cliff's BMW in Brookfield CT who recently dropped Genuine and now sells Schwinn. I don't get it.
I wish they knew of the site and told us why.

SDG

I did ask and they said they had a hard time getting parts from Genuine. Though I don't hear other dealers in the area saying that. So who knows.

The Genuine parts supply isn't great*, but I find it very hard to believe that Schwinn's will be any better.

*I say this, but would also say the same of Piaggio/Vespa and many other manufacturers. In my experience, Genuine is no worse than others, but we want them to be better. Also, I don't think any company should be gauged by shortages last summer, when almost everyone supplying parts or accessories for scooters fell short.

jeremymiller · Post by **jeremymiller** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:54 am

ericalm wrote:
ellen wrote:
SDG wrote: I wish they knew of the site and told us why.

SDG

I did ask and they said they had a hard time getting parts from Genuine. Though I don't hear other dealers in the area saying that. So who knows.
The Genuine parts supply isn't great*, but I find it very hard to believe that Schwinn's will be any better.

*I say this, but would also say the same of Piaggio/Vespa and many other manufacturers. In my experience, Genuine is no worse than others, but we want them to be better. Also, I don't think any company should be gauged by shortages last summer, when almost everyone supplying parts or accessories for scooters fell short.

I think a lot of manufacturers will be ready...or more ready for this summer at least.
That means as time goes buy, our parts should be more readily available...on top of that, better shops should be opening up and the crappy ones should be closing!

Modern Buddy

Local dealer dumps the buddy

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