BlackJack Vs. Mod-Buddy

Discussion of the Genuine Buddy, Hooligan, Black Jack and other topics, both scooter related and not

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Kaos
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BlackJack Vs. Mod-Buddy

Post by Kaos »

Next week my dealer is going to do a shootout with a Blackjack Vs.
My modified 125cc. We're going to try to be as comprehensive as possible. Though I think I'll win ;)
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Post by kneil67@yahoo.com »

me 2
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Post by MikieTaps »

nice! make sure to take video!
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Post by KRUSTYburger »

Looking forward to the results.

:) ... :D ... :o ... :shock: ... :wha: ... :clap:
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Post by ERik3tb »

Okay, when you post the results, can you do a side-by-side comparison of which unit has what?

I think this could be very interesting however it turns out. So, who's taking the bets and what odds are they giving?
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Post by KRUSTYburger »

I'm thinking no contest, Kaos's 125 has got the goods. I guess we'll find out.
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Post by MikieTaps »

:needpics:



Best Smily EVER!
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Post by gr8dog »

I would like to have a price comparison. What does each upgrade cost on the 125 and how much does each contribute to performance.
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Post by loodieboy »

Smoke 'em, Kaos.
Clearly.
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Post by MikieTaps »

its on like donkey kong...
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Post by ScooterTrash »

gr8dog wrote:I would like to have a price comparison. What does each upgrade cost on the 125 and how much does each contribute to performance.
Price is less if purchased via Black Jack Just a little (no labor fees for parts). But you are getting a 150. They will all contribute the same on both power wise but there is no exact measurement of power without a dyno

Buddy 125 - $2700
Prima pipe - $200
NCY Forks - $250
NCY Rear shock - $180
NCY front brake - $90
Rollers and springs - $50
Total : $3470 with no tax or prep fee's or installation of parts
don't forget extra labor for tuning purposes

Black jack 150 - $3500 no tax or prep fees with parts installed
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Kaos
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Post by Kaos »

gr8dog wrote:I would like to have a price comparison. What does each upgrade cost on the 125 and how much does each contribute to performance.
Dr Pulley Variator: $99 - Large improvement over the whole powerband.
Dr Pulley 11g Sliders $25 - Decent improvement, mostly at the bottom end.
A8 Camshaft $40 - Some improvement, mostly top end.
1500RPM Clutch springs $6 - Decent improvement in initial takeoff.
Valve springs $40 - Higher top end, no acceleration improvement.
#100 jet FREE(Love my dealer!) A bit across the whole range.
Yoshimura Exhaust $13(eBay special) Huge improvement, more towards the bottom end than top.
*INDEXED* Iridium plug $13 - Actually a fair amount across the whole range.
1000RPM Contra spring (Don't remember what I paid for this) - Mostly low end.
TONS of tuning - Power increases across the band ;)

I swear I've done other things, but I'm tired and can't remember them right now :p I'll edit when I do.

EDIT: Port and polished head was the thing I'm forgetting ;)
EDIT-EDIT: Ohh, and a gates kevlar belt....
Last edited by Kaos on Fri Mar 13, 2009 7:25 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Lostmycage »

He's a witch! Burn him!!! He speaks of black magic!!!

I'm gonna go ahead and do this one before someone else does...

Blah blah, blah - Priceless.

C'mon, you knew that was coming....
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Post by KRUSTYburger »

Image Like I said, Kaos's scoot has the goods. 8)
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Post by Lostmycage »

Oh right, sorry. I must have missed posting my opinion of the winner. In my defense, it's only because it's so obvious. This is one of the few times where I don't pick the BJ.
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Post by tumon-ninja »

i hope there's more you did with your bike or else if that's all you have, you will lose to the blackjack....anyways how far are you planning to race?
if it's a mile or less i guarantee my BUBU70 will whoop both of you....
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Post by Lostmycage »

Oh, what the heck.... How's the simplest way to answer this one?

No.

2-strokes are awesome in power vs a 4-stroke, but once you hit your top speed, you're done. The tranny in a 4-stroke bike is made for higher speeds. Off the line, hands down the 2T wins. Past 30-40, you're looking at tail lights. Unless you've got some crazy voodoo in your gearing I just don't see it as possible.

With that said.... I LOVE being proven wrong cause it gives me a chance to learn something new. So have at it! Explain how yours would whoop em both... please! (I'm honestly not being sarcastic here, and that's rare for me!)


Oh... and what's that you did with your seat there? Is that a test setup, or something more permanent? I'm looking at redesigning my seat and I'd gladly accept any advice for a more comfortable ride.
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Post by tumon-ninja »

lol. you like the seat huh?
well all you have t do is ripp off the material and throw away the foam and tere you go...i have a big ars so dont need the cusion anyways...

i did voodoo on my tranny so my top is 70+ and like you said i'm 2 stroke so i'll get there faster.

going on a test ride tonite at the 1/4 mile track tonite. i'll see if i can't get some video. i dont have one so i'll se if someone can record it for me..

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Post by MikieTaps »

no fair! you are in Guam! I bet you have access to all kinds of fun parts we dont even know about! :twisted:
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Post by Kaos »

tumon-ninja wrote:i hope there's more you did with your bike or else if that's all you have, you will lose to the blackjack....anyways how far are you planning to race?
if it's a mile or less i guarantee my BUBU70 will whoop both of you....
Heh, I'm fairly certain that I'll beat the BJ. My dealer has ridden both my bike and the BJ and says he really thinks mine is faster.

If you can only reach 70MPH, I'd whoop on ya. I can peg the speedo and keep on going. I've gotten GPS verified 85+.

And 4-strokes are more torque than a 2-stroke on average. My bike PULLS!
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Post by MikieTaps »

i smell some international rivalry here! :twisted:
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Post by tumon-ninja »

well see how far you beat the blackjack and i'll video me beating the blackjack
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Post by Kaos »

tumon-ninja wrote:well see how far you beat the blackjack and i'll video me beating the blackjack
Heh, thats a good idea. Since both blackjacks should be close to the same performance, we aughta be able to compare our bikes against it and see who would win on paper :)
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Post by djelliott »

Kaos wrote:
tumon-ninja wrote:i hope there's more you did with your bike or else if that's all you have, you will lose to the blackjack....anyways how far are you planning to race?
if it's a mile or less i guarantee my BUBU70 will whoop both of you....
Heh, I'm fairly certain that I'll beat the BJ. My dealer has ridden both my bike and the BJ and says he really thinks mine is faster.

If you can only reach 70MPH, I'd whoop on ya. I can peg the speedo and keep on going. I've gotten GPS verified 85+.

And 4-strokes are more torque than a 2-stroke on average. My bike PULLS!
You're going to smoke the Black Jack. With the tuning you've done I don't think those extra 25cc's are going to be enough.

Dustin
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Post by jfrost2 »

Back then someone called me stupid on the forums because I said 50cc bikes with massive tuning could do 60+ mph, I think this thread enough proves any bike properly tuned can out do what most people normally think 50cc or 125cc can do. Even a 40cc pocket bike can hit 60+ mph.
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Post by rajron »

Kaos:

My bet is on you! Go for it!
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Post by Lostmycage »

tumon-ninja wrote:lol. you like the seat huh?
well all you have t do is ripp off the material and throw away the foam and tere you go...i have a big ars so dont need the cusion anyways...

i did voodoo on my tranny so my top is 70+ and like you said i'm 2 stroke so i'll get there faster.

going on a test ride tonite at the 1/4 mile track tonite. i'll see if i can't get some video. i dont have one so i'll se if someone can record it for me..

check out our team scoots streetkings.wordpress.com
OK... I'll bite. What kinda voodoo did you do.. to..you..r ugh. What have you done to trick out your 2-stroker? I'm really curious about this now!
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Post by djelliott »

Hey kaos, I'm doing some air intake and jetting tests this weekend. I'll be sure and send you my results. Let me know if you've done any similar tests.

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Post by Kaos »

djelliott wrote:Hey kaos, I'm doing some air intake and jetting tests this weekend. I'll be sure and send you my results. Let me know if you've done any similar tests.

Dustin
I've played a small bit with the intakes on my Buddy, and just re-jetted my bike again yesterday, let me know if I can give ya any info.
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Post by tumon-ninja »

Kaos wrote:
tumon-ninja wrote:i hope there's more you did with your bike or else if that's all you have, you will lose to the blackjack....anyways how far are you planning to race?
if it's a mile or less i guarantee my BUBU70 will whoop both of you....
Heh, I'm fairly certain that I'll beat the BJ. My dealer has ridden both my bike and the BJ and says he really thinks mine is faster.

If you can only reach 70MPH, I'd whoop on ya. I can peg the speedo and keep on going. I've gotten GPS verified 85+.

And 4-strokes are more torque than a 2-stroke on average. My bike PULLS!
most of our upgrades are custom made or customized to fit...trust me we are no closer to aftermarket parts than you...

we're just moving forward trying to produce top of the line machines..
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Post by Kaos »

tumon-ninja wrote:
Kaos wrote:
tumon-ninja wrote:i hope there's more you did with your bike or else if that's all you have, you will lose to the blackjack....anyways how far are you planning to race?
if it's a mile or less i guarantee my BUBU70 will whoop both of you....
Heh, I'm fairly certain that I'll beat the BJ. My dealer has ridden both my bike and the BJ and says he really thinks mine is faster.

If you can only reach 70MPH, I'd whoop on ya. I can peg the speedo and keep on going. I've gotten GPS verified 85+.

And 4-strokes are more torque than a 2-stroke on average. My bike PULLS!
most of our upgrades are custom made or customized to fit...trust me we are no closer to aftermarket parts than you...

we're just moving forward trying to produce top of the line machines..
Nice! I've got some shops in Taiwan getting some custom parts made for mine, I hope to have a 175cc kit on my bike here shortly, once I can get it shipped here :)
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Post by UnionZac »

a 175cc kit for the buddy, is what webster's defines as "badass"
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Post by djelliott »

UnionZac wrote:a 175cc kit for the buddy, is what webster's defines as "badass"
If it isn't, it soon will be.
Prima pipe
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Re: BlackJack Vs. Mod-Buddy

Post by Laura »

Kaos wrote:Next week my dealer is going to do a shootout with a Blackjack Vs.
My modified 125cc. We're going to try to be as comprehensive as possible. Though I think I'll win ;)
I'm waiting to test the Black Jack.
I have an 06 125 and an 08 St. Tropez 150.
The 125 is quicker off the line.
The 150 has more guts on the freeway and hills.

I ordered a Black Jack, so may have a used Buddy for sale soon !
Don't really need 3 scoots , 2 MC's and 1 cage.
But don't really need 4 helmets either.

Laura
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Post by tumon-ninja »

hey Kaos, any news on racing that BLACKJACK?
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Post by Kaos »

tumon-ninja wrote:hey Kaos, any news on racing that BLACKJACK?
Still waiting on my dealer to finish break-in, as they want this to be a fair evaluation of the Blackjack. We're hoping the middle of this week, if all goes well.
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Post by BuddyRaton »

Kaos wrote:Heh, I'm fairly certain that I'll beat the BJ.

Now thats funny!
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Post by Kaos »

Just a quick update, its still raining cats and dogs here in the great Pacific North West. So the track hasn't been open :( My dealer says his mule Blackjack is basically broken in, so now we're just waiting on weather.
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Post by djelliott »

Kaos wrote:Just a quick update, its still raining cats and dogs here in the great Pacific North West. So the track hasn't been open :( My dealer says his mule Blackjack is basically broken in, so now we're just waiting on weather.
The Black Jack ain't nothing but a wannabe voodoo buddy. You're going to crush it.

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Post by tumon-ninja »

can't wait to see. what kind of track are you going to?
i tore my bike apart to get ready for races coming up soon and broke something under the tank so i'm waiting for a gas tank..maybe going to go with an aftermarket one.....

and btw... MY buddy has the real voodoo!

lol
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Post by djelliott »

tumon-ninja wrote:can't wait to see. what kind of track are you going to?
i tore my bike apart to get ready for races coming up soon and broke something under the tank so i'm waiting for a gas tank..maybe going to go with an aftermarket one.....

and btw... MY buddy has the real voodoo!

lol
Let's see some pictures and a list of mods. It's always nice to get some fresh ideas.

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Post by Kaos »

tumon-ninja wrote:can't wait to see. what kind of track are you going to?
i tore my bike apart to get ready for races coming up soon and broke something under the tank so i'm waiting for a gas tank..maybe going to go with an aftermarket one.....

and btw... MY buddy has the real voodoo!

lol
Its both a dragstrip and a twisty track. We're going to see if we can run both tracks, but they're not open on the same nights, so we'll see how it goes.
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Post by tumon-ninja »

we've only got a drag strip here so that's the only course we will run...
the race is set for 4/26 so it's gonna take some time to get my video posted.... i'll post my pics as soon as i get the gas tank and the bike put back together.....as for a list of parts? KAOS knows what i have and he has a REAL set up too.... just mines a 2T and only 70cc
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Post by Kaos »

tumon-ninja wrote:we've only got a drag strip here so that's the only course we will run...
the race is set for 4/26 so it's gonna take some time to get my video posted.... i'll post my pics as soon as i get the gas tank and the bike put back together.....as for a list of parts? KAOS knows what i have and he has a REAL set up too.... just mines a 2T and only 70cc
Cool, I'd love to see that. I'm going to try to get someone with a video camera to come when I run against the Blackjack so we've got video evidence :P
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Post by broke »

My video camera blows, but I'll come and record it anyway! Make sure I know when! Going to PIR?
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Post by pocphil »

I don't think this is beginning to be a fair fight.

The BlackJack isn't going to start to open up until it has well over 600 miles on the clock.

We recently put the BlackJack up against Ghetto Buddy which has everything in the BlackJack, plus 1500 RPM Spring, 10GM weights. The Ghetto Buddy was much stronger off the launch.

I'm certain if you mod a BlackJack the same as Ghetto Buddy, it would b e a dead heat.

Our BlackJack has around 120 miles on so far, we ran it against a well-broken-in Italia 150 and the BlackJack definitely was quicker off the line and held that lead throughout.


The sheer fact that Kaos can bury the speedo means it's gonna be faster than all comers.

It's all starts with the cam...all the carb / pipe in the world means nothing if you don't open the door long enough for the horses to get in and out.
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Post by Kaos »

broke wrote:My video camera blows, but I'll come and record it anyway! Make sure I know when! Going to PIR?
Yep, it'll be at PIR. Any video camera beats my still camera that happens to do video :P
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Post by Kaos »

pocphil wrote:I don't think this is beginning to be a fair fight.

The BlackJack isn't going to start to open up until it has well over 600 miles on the clock.

We recently put the BlackJack up against Ghetto Buddy which has everything in the BlackJack, plus 1500 RPM Spring, 10GM weights. The Ghetto Buddy was much stronger off the launch.

I'm certain if you mod a BlackJack the same as Ghetto Buddy, it would b e a dead heat.

Our BlackJack has around 120 miles on so far, we ran it against a well-broken-in Italia 150 and the BlackJack definitely was quicker off the line and held that lead throughout.


The sheer fact that Kaos can bury the speedo means it's gonna be faster than all comers.

It's all starts with the cam...all the carb / pipe in the world means nothing if you don't open the door long enough for the horses to get in and out.
They're trying to put some miles on the Blackjack before the race so its at least got a fighting chance.

Yeah, I really think the cam is my secret weapon. The stock cam is really quite a low lift cam. It just doesn't let that much airflow. So like Phil said, you can have the ability to flow a ton of air in and a ton of air out, but if the cam doesn't open the valves, its not gonna do much.
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Post by djelliott »

pocphil wrote:I don't think this is beginning to be a fair fight.

The BlackJack isn't going to start to open up until it has well over 600 miles on the clock.

We recently put the BlackJack up against Ghetto Buddy which has everything in the BlackJack, plus 1500 RPM Spring, 10GM weights. The Ghetto Buddy was much stronger off the launch.

I'm certain if you mod a BlackJack the same as Ghetto Buddy, it would b e a dead heat.

Our BlackJack has around 120 miles on so far, we ran it against a well-broken-in Italia 150 and the BlackJack definitely was quicker off the line and held that lead throughout.


The sheer fact that Kaos can bury the speedo means it's gonna be faster than all comers.

It's all starts with the cam...all the carb / pipe in the world means nothing if you don't open the door long enough for the horses to get in and out.
I'm ordering my cam today. Muahahahahahahahah! :twisted:
Prima pipe
UNI filter
125 Main Jet
2000RPM Stall Spring
1500RPM Clutch Springs
Dr. Pulley Variator with 11 Gram Sliders
NCY Front Forks
Prima/NCY 161cc Big Bore kit With 150 Head
KS Power GY6 Performance Springs
NCY Secondary Shieve
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Post by Lostmycage »

Does the Blackjack have an improved cam on it? What makes it different from the other 150 engines?
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