Commuting Help, Please

[healingpath]

Hello you all. I've been researching scooters for a few weeks now, and, like others, I'm getting a bit confused by all the bikes available. I haven't ridden a motorized 2 wheeler for about 38 years, and then it was only for a couple of days (I think it was a small Suzuki, maybe 500cc's). Anyway, here's my situation, and I'd very much appreciate your experienced thoughts: I have about a 30 mile one way commute, the first 1 1/2 miles of which is a dirt road (and the last 1 1/2 coming home). I can stay on the two lane state road all the way (speed limit 55), or I can do the last 5 miles on the interstate. I' m not looking to achieve the fastest speed possible, but I do want something that will keep up with traffic, even if that means doing 60 on the interstate, which is ok with me, and which I sometime do in my car anyway. Like a lot of first-timers, I'm looking at the Buddy and the People 150 (or now I read that that People 250 is being replaced by the S200? Is that true?), and also the TNG Verona 150, etc. I'd like to know what is realistic for the Buddy. And then, what if I wanted to do some short distance "touring", like say 50-75 miles or so? Can the Buddy do this well?
Thanks a million for your attention and thoughts. Your experience is valuable.

[rajron]

125cc is too small for a daily 30 mile one way commute, maybe some younger ones could but that’s a far distance to be on a little bike for the not so limber. The Buddy is very agile, sporty and quick, great for around town and short hops and occasionally a 100 miler but its just not designed for long rides. Look at the size of the tires – they gotta spin a lot, little bitty brakes, and tiny shocks, the sporty ness of the Buddy comes at an expense and that is lack of creature comforts on long distance rides.
If you want to do 2 wheels for your commute, day in and day out, think much larger even 500cc many would think as being too small.

[DO3]

I commute about 20 miles on posted 55mph roads on occasion and every now and then road trip a little. The buddy is a great scooter and is much more capable than it probably should be for a 125 but I personally think it too small for what I do. I only communte on nice days and with less than a 10 mph wind. If you plan on using the scooter as much as possible for your commute I would honestly suggest 200cc or more. I have the pipe and small windscreen on mine and on windy days I'm lucky to maintain 55 mph on the flats, which gets a little un-nerving if you are on a road with steady traffic. Plus if you might take the freeway every now and then you'll really want the extra power of a bigger bike. All around I think the Buddy is one of the best bang for your buck scooters out there, but it's just a little small for high speed commutes.

I originally intended on only staying in the city but found the 2 wheeled commute to fun to pass up on nice days. So if I knew then what I know now I would have gone bigger. Although there is a pretty hefty price bump as well stepping past 150cc.

Good luck in your search.

[ericalm]

There are some good scooters in the 250cc range that may suit your needs—several Kymco models, the Vespa GTS, Piaggio BV, even the 3-wheeled Piaggio MP3. But you may want to consider a "maxi" scoot, something over 400cc. Kymco and Piaggio both have good maxis on the market, as well as those made by Suzuki and Honda.

[vitaminC]

How rough is the dirt road? If it's heavily rutted and not in great shape, I would be weary of using a scooter at all. Either way, that is a long way to go on a scooter.

What about a small motorcycle? Something like a Yamaha XT225 or Kawasaki KLX 250S. Both of those would easily handle the dirt, be good for highway speeds, and still get scooter-like economy.

I would suggest starting with the MSF course to get a fresh feel for riding on two wheels before you put down any $$. And look for a used vehicle in case you decide you'd rather be in the car...

[Keys]

Pshaw. What a bunch of spoilsports...I'd do it on my Buddy...

However, that being said, I'm not neccessarily ordinary nor to be emulated. I would recommend a 250cc for said commute. I bought a used Honda Helix for my wife a couple years ago and you just can't beat it to death with a stick! I rode it to Tucson and back in one day last summer (450 miles round trip) on the freeway, cruising happily at 65 - 70 mph. Any of the 250's would be quite adequate for what you need. People seem to feel that more is always better when it is actually just overkill. I seem to recall two trips from San Diego to Denver and back on a Yamaha 250 when I was in the Marines. At the speed limit or above.

--Keys

[gt1000]

You have just enough variables in your situation to make this a tough decision. Part of me thinks a small scooter like the Buddy is perhaps the perfect vehicle for downtown Santa Fe, with its small, winding streets and low speeds. However, the highways that are nearby tend to have high average speeds along with some serious grades. Like Keys, I think the Buddy is capable but, if you only want one bike, I'd test ride a bunch and choose very carefully.

I'd also be concerned about the dirt road. Is it actually dirt or is it more like gravel? My guess is that it's that compacted red clay which can be a fine surface as long as it's dry.

Give every scooter available to you a test ride under conditions similar to your everyday commute. Then sprinkle in a few small motorcycles as well. Given the terrain around Santa Fe, I'd look at enduro or motard (sometimes called adventure bikes) style bikes. If it was me living in Santa Fe, I'd have a small scooter and something like a BMW F650 or 1200 GS. If I could only have one bike, it would probably be one of the BMW's because it does everything you want very capably. All the BMW's also have all kinds of accessories available, including luggage, heated grips, ABS, etc. that make touring a realistic proposition. They will cost you though.

[Keys]

You could also consider the Yamaha TW200 fat-tired fun-mobile...

--Keys

[jrsjr]

...or now I read that that People 250 is being replaced by the S200? Is that true?

Not exactly. Kymco has come out with the People S 250, which is a restyled People 250 with dual front disks. The People S 200 is really a 163cc machine and is the successor to the People 150, which continues to be available (confusing, I know). From your description of your commute, I like the idea of a bigger motor and bigger wheels than the Buddy offers. I wouldn't get anything less than the Kymco People 250 (or S 250). Sometimes you can wangle deals on leftover Kymco People 250s. I know my close-by dealer has one.

Good luck. Feel free to ask more questions here. There also are a couple Kymco forums where you can check in. The Kymco scooter group on Yahoo is pretty active and has some knowledgeable folks on it. for example.

[vitaminC]

For me, one reason I wouldn't use the Buddy on this commute, is that it only gets ~120 miles per tank. To be on the safe side, that means having to fill-up at roughly 1.5 day intervals- or more frequently if there is no gas near your house. No thanks!

[sunshinen]

I am a small person, but I think the Buddy is perfect for the 55mph road and would be fine for a 30 mile commute. Twice a week, I ride 22 miles one way, and have no problems unless I let myself get too cold.

I have celiac disease, and one of my primary symptoms is joint pain and stiffness, and the Buddy is fine for this distance. Just like my superergonomic chair, though, if I sit on it for more than an hour and a half, things start to get uncomfortable.

[dru_]

Here is my take.

You want something with 200cc's or better to give you enough 'go' for the roads, I'd say 250 to 500 is the sweet spot for the type of roads you will be riding. Considering your age, and location, I'd go with a 250 to 400, unless you also expect to be doing any light touring, in which case, I'd seriously consider a 500 or 600.

The dirt road you start and end your day with would be a strong factor in my purchasing choices. That road would add two criteria to my choices, larger wheels to better resist the ruts and bumps, and fuel-injection.

I personally ride a People 250 which I've put 5k miles on in the span of 7 months. When I started shopping, I was looking at the Buddy 50, until a I borrowed a friends 50cc scooter for a week to test the waters. I then moved up to a 125cc no-name Chinese piece of junk (Shanghai JmStar) which I rode for about a month before concluding that even with a top end of 60mph, I really needed a little more top end safety reserve. What I mean by that is that I wanted an extra little 'get out of the way' oomph when cruising with traffic at 60. I went with the People 250 a couple of months before the 'S' model became available, and other than the fact that I find the seat to be a little harsh for long rides, it's an excellent bike.

Mine however is about to go up for sale. I am, unless my wife nixes the deal, moving to 500. I'm doing this for two reasons. The seat, it's not unusual for me to put 200 miles into a day, and the realization that I ride longer distances than I thought I would.

What started off as a 'replace the gas guzzling SUV on the commute' agenda has turned into a 'scooter adventure' that has quite literally changed my entire lifestyle (and according to my wife for the better). A year ago, I was all about driving to fast and aggressive, hitting the highway, and avoiding traffic. I was grumpy when I got home, and it took an hour to 'decompress'. Now, I ride everywhere, and most every day. My wife is terrified of the danger of riding, but at this point, she's willing to live with the fear, for the improvements in me in general.

These days, I go weeks without hitting the interstate. I've found lots of little off the beaten path places I'd never known around me. My commute was just a few miles, but now, my route is often double or triple that, but I'm having fun.

In other words, evaluate your needs objectively, and recognize that if you short change yourself at first, you may very likely end up trading up fairly quickly.

Based upon the information you've provided, I really think there are several good options:

250's
- Kymco People 'S' 250 - Large wheels, radiator not behind the front tire
http://www.kymcousa.com/showroom/scoote ... index.html
- Kymco Xciting 250 - better seat & lower back support, smaller wheels
http://www.kymcousa.com/showroom/scoote ... index.html
- Honda Reflex - It's a Honda, small wheels, good power, good seat.
http://powersports.honda.com/scooters/m ... Id=NSS2507
- Piaggio MP3 - Incredible stability, limited availability
http://www.piaggiousa.com/pScooters/MP3.cfm
- Vespa GTS 250 ie - *the* Vespa name and quality. Parts can be an issue, and price
http://www.vespausa.com/Products/GTS.cfm

400's
- Yamaha Majesty 400 - Good seating, quiet, slightly expensive
http://www.yamaha-motor.com/sport/produ ... /home.aspx
- Suzuki Burgmann 400 - Popular for it's good seat and storage, excellent dealer network
http://www.suzukicycles.com/Products/AN ... fault.aspx

500's
- Kymco Xciting 500 - great price / quality for a 500
http://www.kymcousa.com/showroom/scoote ... index.html
- Piaggio X9 - Nice bike, parts can be an issue
http://www.piaggiousa.com/pScooters/X9.cfm
- Piaggio BV500 - Good bike, poor storage, needs additional windscreen
http://www.piaggiousa.com/pScooters/BV500.cfm
- Aprila Scarabeo 500 - Same as the BV500 above.



600's
- Honda Silverwing 600 - Big Silver Wing, great ride
http://powersports.honda.com/scooters/m ... Id=FSC6007
- Suzuki Burgmann 650 - Posh Luxury Scoot, pricey but well suited to the open roads
http://www.suzukicycles.com/Products/AN ... fault.aspx

It's alot to digest, but I don't think a 125 or really anything under 250 cc is going to be enough after the first month or so, and would hate to see you have to go shopping again short order .

[rajron]

I just realized where you live, hop and a skip from me – I take it you live in Cerrillos and commute to Santa Fe, I’m very familiar with those roads, Hwy 14 – the Buddy will not be able to keep up with the flow of traffic through the hills especially during commute times – get something larger to commute with. Something people probably don’t realize, Santa Fe is at over 7,000 feet above sea level, and its windy through Turquoise trail, not to mention extremes in weather that change hourly. Of course the Interstate going thru Santa Fe has a speed limit of 75mph (Hwy 25) – not very many people travel through there at that speed, the limit is as with most of the state is merely a reference for the slow drivers.
My wife and I have been wanting to take our scoots from Albuquerque to Santa Fe since we got them, traveling by Cerrillos but will not until the weather settles down – we know Nick at New Urban Transport where we got our scoots, who says the trip is easy but weather is always the factor he is a hard core scooter guy so I’m not sure what easy is but within a month we are going to try it. We are looking forward going thru Madrid (Wild Hogs the movie) and scooting through Canyon Road, Old Town, and of course visiting Museum Hill which we are members and then eating at Pasqual’s. For the first time we may leave a truck and trailer up at Santa Fe and trailer the scoots back home after scooting there but then when we get braver we will make the round trip.

[healingpath]

Well, thanks to everyone for their comments, thoughts, experiences regarding the Buddy and its capabilities. There seems to be a predominant
view that the Buddy isn't right for my needs, with at least one partial dissenter, or qualified dissenter, so far. If I was confused before, now I'm overwhelmed with all the choices people have suggested. Here's a couple of things I do know: I don't want a dirt bike, so if that were my only choice I'd give up the whole idea. I also don't want a motorcycle. The whole idea for me
started to have some appeal specifically around scooters, light weight, high economy, automatic transmission, relatively easy and fun to ride, etc. I do appreciate all of the specific cycles that have been suggested, but if I had to check them all out, really, this doesn't interest me. Also price is a considerable factor. One of the appeals of the Buddy is, of course, it's price. It looked like you got quite a lot for your money there. When I went to talk with Richard at Centaur Cycles (New Urban's sister store), he also recommended the People 250, and my first reaction was that this was too much machine, and my second was that the price was too much for me at $4000 plus plus. I know it'll cruise at 75, and really, I'm thinking I don't want to go 75 on a 2-wheeler. Who knows though. Maybe I'd become so enamored of the whole scooter experience that I'd just naturally grow into it.
Maybe also a used machine makes sense at this early stage, since really the whole thing is a fantasy at this point, and I might discover that it's the wrong fantasy after all. Again, plunking down over four grand on a "I
might like this and I might not" thing seems too rich for me up front. Of course, there's another factor operating: since this is all in my head at this point - that is, I haven't gotten my temporary cycle endorsement yet, and I haven't ridden any of these scooters - I'm thinking that when I do, certain things will become more "real", and I'll get a much better idea about how I want to proceed.
And rajron, I actually live a little south of Madrid, and off the pavement, and commute to Santa Fe up Hwy 14. It's not always windy at all, in fact sometimes it's as beautiful and as sweet as it can be - not today, by the way. Today has been quite windy. Well, again, thanks to everyone so far. I have a lot to digest, as was suggested, and a lot to consider. Any further input is welcome.

[Roose Hurro]

... I'm thinking I don't want to go 75 on a 2-wheeler.

Well, just because a scoot can go 75 doesn't mean you have to ride it that fast. Still, it's good to know it's there, if you need it! I would also recommend a used scoot, under the circumstances you've given (just in case you dump on the dirt, heaven forbid), and something over 250cc. I have the same conundrum, myself, when it comes to my future choice of scooter... the need for a license endorsement, training, gear... though my present commute is only 10.8 miles, round trip, on city streets, and a very short bit of highway. The Buddy would be perfect for me, but so would the 1999 Honda CH80 I've had my eye on, presently in the showroom of a relatively local motorcycle dismantler's yard (for the price of $1099, sticker).

However, I drool over a Dragon Red Vespa GTS, though affording such a dream is presently beyond my means. Hope you find not only what you need, but also what you can enjoy....

Ride Safe!


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[x-mojito50mod]

I have the perfect answer for all your needs, if you can find one used:



The Hond Big Ruckus. It's a 250, 13" wheels with beefy-tread tires (for the offroad sections), has a comfortable seating position (the back flips down), is an automatic, economic 4-stroke, and is still a scooter.

[BlueMark]

The 2007 Blur, with its 200cc engine would be small enough to be economical, and have enough power for the occasional Freeway run. It is very comfortable to ride if you fit on it - not too short or tall, and if your dogs aren't too large to be comfortable in the limited but well placed foot space.

I find the 150 version (with the same body as the 200) to be comfortable (and fun) for 30 mile rides. And the occasional 100 miler.

The 2007 black Blur has a nicer more subdued look, but it is definitely a whole different look from the Vespa style scooter. You aren't going to like it if you are pining for classic scooter looks.

It is good alternative to a 250 or larger scooter if you don't want to go the maxi route.

-Mark

[sparty]

Man, I love the Big Ruckus. Too bad they don't make it anymore

[Corsair]

The 2007 Blur, with its 200cc engine would be small enough to be economical, and have enough power for the occasional Freeway run. It is very comfortable to ride if you fit on it - not too short or tall, and if your dogs aren't too large to be comfortable in the limited but well placed foot space.

I find the 150 version (with the same body as the 200) to be comfortable (and fun) for 30 mile rides. And the occasional 100 miler.

The 2007 black Blur has a nicer more subdued look, but it is definitely a whole different look from the Vespa style scooter. You aren't going to like it if you are pining for classic scooter looks.

It is good alternative to a 250 or larger scooter is you don't want to go the maxi route.

-Mark

For the price ($3699 msrp) I'd have to agree. If the Buddy doesn't meet your needs I'm sure this one will (and you'll also be getting the Genuine 2yr warranty)

[sparty]

Any ideas when the 2007 Blur is coming out?

[gt1000]

Man, I love the Big Ruckus. Too bad they don't make it anymore

Yeah, the Big Ruckus might be the perfect choice if you can find one. Based on healingpath's latest post, I'd look hard for one and I'd also consider the Blur since cost seems to be an issue.

Now, some random observations. I always find it interesting when scooter shoppers say they're not interested in motorcycles. My reasoning is that, in the eyes of the law, a scooter (over 50cc's) IS a motorcycle. Yes, many are automatic and many are light but there are also manual scoots and a number of maxi scoots are heavier than similarly priced motorcycles. I'm not kidding myself; scooters ARE different and have a different culture than motorcycles. But, to me, the only way you're going to actually get what you want and need is to try all the possible alternatives at your price point. And, if you plan on riding on different types of terrain, it behooves you to try large and small wheel varieties. This isn't just an aesthetic issue, it's a safety issue.

It sounds to me like healingpath has a really good idea of what he wants, so all I can say is choose wisely and ride safely.

[x-mojito50mod]

I just thought instantly of it with the mention of "dirt road". A friend of mine has one...it's fun to ride. It has a low center of gravity, so, though it is fairly heavy, it doesn't feel like it. Plus, you take the lighter 3 rollers out (it has six, of two different weights), and that thing flies! Some of the custom ones are pretty cool looking too.
-M@

[rajron]

I am sorry I didn’t mean to paint the Turquoise trail as being dreary, more than often there is Fantastic weather thru there, for that matter most of the time – it is the premier scenic drive of this region.

[healingpath]

I just wanted to to thank you all a little bit individually for all of your expertise, suggestions, experience and advise: DO3, for the agreement that bigger here would be better, including the occassional freeway run;

VitaminC asked how rough the dirt road is. It is rough in spots, more smooth in spots, rocky in spots. It's not a county maintained road, but we do it ourselves periodically. It depends on your perspective. People who aren't used to it often think it's terrible. I happen to think it's manageable. More on this in a little bit. Also, thanks for the idea of a used scoot first, and the MSF course, which I do plan to take.

Keys, I do appreciate, and relate with, your out-of-the-box thinking. I suspect that the Buddy COULD do what I want it to do, and it might also have some shortcomings along the way. I looked online at the Helix too. That might be a good used choice. Not so sure about the TW200. It takes me out of the scooter world, which, for now, I want to stay in.

gt1000, Andy, thanks for your agreement that the Buddy COULD do it all, and for your caveats as well. You asked if the dirt was really dirt or gravel, It's really dirt, but not the red clay you imagine. Just your basic New Mexico hard pack dirt road. It can get rutty at times, too. Also you agree that the Blur 200 or the Big Ruckus could work. Having looked at both online, I'd probably lean toward the 200. I'm sure the Ruckus could do it all for me, but I have to admit, I think it looks like hell, and not something I'd readily gravitate to at this point.

John Smith, for your links to the Kymco forums, and clarification on the 150/250/S200 confusion. Makes sense that the S200 would be replacing the 150, and not the 250.

Sunshinen, many thanks for your confidence in the Buddy. There's a part of me that does lean in this direction, I have to admit, and I'm also taking into account what many good people are saying about a bigger scoot.

dru, thanks for sharing all of your personal experience, and for the links to sooooo many possibilities.

Roose Hurro, for your similar personal dilemma and for your good wishes.

x-mojito50mod for the suggestion of the big ruckus.

Blue Mark, for the Blur 200 idea - I am thinking about it, and for your experience on the Blur 150 as a comfortable ride in the 30-100 mile range.

And Corsair for your thumbs up to the Blur 200.

rajron, thanks for your thoughts about the whole thing. Don't be afraid of Hwy 14. I think your Buddy's will enjoy it all the way to Santa Fe.

On the subject of dirt roads, I'm thinking like this: even the Buddy COULD do it, providing that its rider was able and willing to take it real slow and easy. There seems to be a whole lot of concern about the top end of all the scooters, and I don't here anyone talking about the bottom end, that is, what a bike will do in the 5-10 mph range. In all of my reading so far, I think I've come across only one reference by a reviewer, or by anyone else, to a scoot's low end performance. For my needs, this is a real consideration for both staring and ending my riding day.

I very much appreciate all of your consideration.
Matthew

[x-mojito50mod]

There seems to be a whole lot of concern about the top end of all the scooters, and I don't here anyone talking about the bottom end, that is, what a bike will do in the 5-10 mph range. In all of my reading so far, I think I've come across only one reference by a reviewer, or by anyone else, to a scoot's low end performance. For my needs, this is a real consideration for both staring and ending my riding day.

I very much appreciate all of your consideration.
Matthew

For low speed performance, the buddy is great. Personally, I use mine for everything. I don't own a car, which is a supposed necessity in Los Angeles. I ride in the rain, wind, cold, or whatever...it's still better than riding the bus. I may be a little more "hardcore" then some...I beat my bikes into the ground, while still maintaining them. I think the Buddy is a good choice if you can commute at 50-60mph, but any more than that for long periods won't be fun. My commute is only 6-7 miles each way, but the surface street speeds in the morning can be 50-55mph, and the Buddy's great for that speed. On the way home, it's more like 30-40mph, and the Buddy's great here too, cause you can split the lanes, get to the front of the line, and smoke 'em and do the "morning speeds".

Whatever you do, get the right machine for the job. I thought, when I got my fist scooter, "A 50cc, derestricted, will be fine for around town". I was wrong. I pushed it too hard, even after modifications, and ended up warping the crankshaft, killing it. I'm just trying to save you money and trips to the mechanic. If I did it all over again, I would have saved up for the 150cc version of the first scoot I had. I'd still be riding it. But I am happy with the Buddy for what I use it for. It pulls up hills with plenty of power, it cruises all day at 55mph, and has a bit more to go to get out of trouble, it's stable at slow speeds (sometimes, I don't have to put my feet down at lights), it corners well, and puts a smile on my face. If I was on the freeway though, I'd have the look of fear.

my $0.02.

-M@
(also Matt)

[gt1000]

Funny, I was going to write something when my daughter called and M@ beat me to it. He covered pretty much everything I wanted to cover and his experience mirrors mine. We even owned the same 50 cc scoots with, I suspect, some of the same mods.

The Buddy is really good at low speed. Like M@ said, I can keep mine upright at barely a crawl, keeping my feet off the ground. I don't have dirt road experience but do have experience riding at 5 mph or less on rutted, snow and ice packed back streets, a side effect of our December blizzard. Most small scooters are really good at low speeds but the Buddy seems kind of special because it's so light and agile. Sometimes I feel like I can pinch my knees together and lift the bike off the ground to pivot. I can't, but that gives you an idea of the Bud's low speed prowess.

Take the time to ride a few scooters and compare. You'll be able to figure out what you'll be most comfortable on. Just make sure the scooter has some reserve speed for the fastest roads you'll be regularly traveling.

[Elm Creek Smith]

I love the Budd, but that Yamaha TW200 looks good! Of course, Jennifer Love Hewitt looks good, too, but my wife won't let me have her either.

ECS

[healingpath]

Thanks for your replies about your specific buddy usage. It does sound like this machine can do a pretty flexible job of things, within it's real limits of course. Somehow I'm not surprised. I spent a couple of hours at my local dealer's yesterday, asking more questions, getting another ride, this time on the People 150. Richard recommends the people over the buddy for what I want to do with it. He says it has a little more top end power. It is more comfortable for two, I have to say, in case my wife should ever want to ride with me. He doesn't think the dirt road is an issue at all, just take it easy, as I suspected. The 16 inch wheels on the people do give it a little bit more ground clearance too, which would be nice on the dirt. Having listened to what several of you all have recommended, ie., a bigger machine, I thought seriously about that 2006 People 250 he's got sitting there in his showroom, his demo model, which has 1100 miles on it, and which he'd sell me at a bit of a discounted price (as yet to be determined). I'd think about going for it except for the gas mileage, which doesn't yet excite me at 60mpg. Maybe I'm asking too much, but I think I want something that gets more like 80'ish mpg. After all, this is a commuting bike. He says the 150 will do what I want it to, that is, the 55mph commute, AND give me the mpg I'm after. I'd welcome your thoughts and experience again on this point.

[dru_]

60 mpg is very low for a P250. I average around 72, and got 81 last weekend on a 280 mile day of riding on mine.

[BlueMark]

I like the ride of a big wheel scooter - I test rode quite a few big and small wheeled scooters when I was scooter shopping, including just about the entire Kymco line - all fine scoots. I found I definitely preferred their big wheel People scoots over the small wheel models. I ordered a big wheel model from another company, but it turned out to be unavailable. Meanwhile my dealer had a Blur shipped in for me to test. Even though it is smaller wheeled (13 inch) it has what is probably the best scooter suspension made, It felt like a big wheel bike at speed, soaks up the bumps in the road well, and leaves you in control like nothing else I've ridden. This is one incredibly stable bike - in the past week we have had several days of high winds, but the Blur never wavered - indeed the winds have blown me around a bit, but he bike underneath me was a rock solid anchor to hold onto.

My guess is that the Blur 200 (which is supposed to ship in May) will easily match the People 250 in everything but top speed - and maybe that too.

Gosh, I'm sounding like an evangelist. Let me hasten to add that I really like the Kymco People line, I came close to buying the 200S (the others suffer too much from ugly grill disease) - and its larger size will accommodate more variations in riders. The Blur either fits you or it doesn't.

-Mark

[healingpath]

60 mpg is very low for a P250. I average around 72, and got 81 last weekend on a 280 mile day of riding on mine.

Since this is such a significant difference, let me ask you a little about your riding style, if you don't mind. The dealer says he likes to run his bikes WOT, pushing them to get the most top end out of them. More fun he says. I'm wondering if this has the effect of killing the mpg potential? Maybe you ride more gently? Also, we're here at 7000 feet in the Santa Fe area. Is this elevation a factor as well? Thanks again.

[healingpath]

My guess is that the Blur 200 (which is supposed to ship in May) will easily match the People 250 in everything but top speed - and maybe that too.

The dealer says he was personally disappointed in the Blur 150, thought it would be faster (for his liking). He didn't know anything about the new 200, if or when it was coming out. I know you like your Blur a lot, and the new color option for the 200 will attract more people, I think. I also think this dealer tends to be disappointed in 150's generally. They just don't have the speed/power he likes for himself.

[BlueMark]

The dealer says he was personally disappointed in the Blur 150, thought it would be faster (for his liking). ... They just don't have the speed/power he likes for himself.

I agree, the 150 is really no faster than a Buddy, extra power is the one thing I really wish it had. When riding on open roads it is clear that the bike is able to handle much more speed than the motor is capable of. The 200 should address that issue.

But a People 150 isn't going to be any better. If you need all day highway cruising speed you really need to start at a minimum of 250cc. But then you lose the high mileage.

That means you are pretty much limited to something like the Blur 200 (200cc, 17hp) or a Piaggio like the BV200 (198cc, 21hp) - the Kymco People S 200 is only a 163cc.

We have yet to test ride a Blur 200, but Bryce made an analysis that suggests that it may be the sweet spot in power and performance, perhaps surpassing the overseas 250 model.

-Mark

[dru_]

60 mpg is very low for a P250. I average around 72, and got 81 last weekend on a 280 mile day of riding on mine.

Since this is such a significant difference, let me ask you a little about your riding style, if you don't mind. The dealer says he likes to run his bikes WOT, pushing them to get the most top end out of them. More fun he says. I'm wondering if this has the effect of killing the mpg potential? Maybe you ride more gently? Also, we're here at 7000 feet in the Santa Fe area. Is this elevation a factor as well? Thanks again.

That would have some impact . I'm in Atlanta, GA, so figure about 1k feet, I know next to nothing about how that would effect mileage, but I know for a fact that my riding style impacts my MPG.

I don't ride wide open unless I have to, and I don't use a wide open throttle to get to speed either. The reality is that with a CVT transmission, you aren't getting to speed any faster at the cost of fuel economy. The key is smooth power application. After you ride a bike for a couple of weeks you can feel the throttle/transmission balance, and with a smooth power application, you get a quieter, more fuel efficient ride. In addition, I admit that I use hills to my advantage. Accelerating downhill to carry speed up the other side and other little things like that that in many ways are carryovers from driving inefficient cars for years.

[Keys]

HP, I have ridden regularly at over 7000 ft. in the Flagstaff area and have discerned no apparent power drop. Also I ride WOT most of the time and my mileage is still in the 80's. The B125 is a very versatile machine that is capable of just about anything you ask of it.

I have ridden on dirt roads (you can find a link somewhere in the archives of my blog; www.skutergruven.blogspot.com ) and the Buddy does a fine job if you aren't in a hurry. I think my major concerns were how much dust was getting into the air filter and was all that bouncing up and down going to adversely affect the engine that was bouncing up and down with the wheel. You know, was something gonna fall off...!! Nothing did, but it was always in the back of my mind. As a result, I rarely take dirt roads.

My 2 cents worth, my friend.

--Keys

[healingpath]

My 2 cents worth, my friend.

--Keys

Thanks Keys, I appreciate the more detailed info. You know, trying to make a decision about which one bike to get isn't an easy one I'm finding out. Any one I'd consider has its assets and liabilities. What would be the best all-around scooter for my needs? Part of this is, again, the lack of actual riding experience with different bikes. Even the lack of knowing completely what my needs may become. A person could drive themselves nuts trying to make the "perfect" decision. In the running at the moment are the Buddy, the P150, and the P250. The Blur 200 isn't available yet, but that sounds like one to consider too. It sure sounds like you enjoy your Buddy, and a lot of people do. It's good to hear about the high elevation riding, by the way. That's encouraging.

Til next time........

[dru_]

At this point, I'd think seriously about investing in a used Buddy 125 or People 150 and riding it for 3-6 months, and reevaluating your needs at that point. It it fits your needs, you're golden, if not, then you'll be into the fall discount season and should be able to trade up without a major loss.

[healingpath]

At this point, I'd think seriously about investing in a used Buddy 125 or People 150 and riding it for 3-6 months, and reevaluating your needs at that point. It it fits your needs, you're golden, if not, then you'll be into the fall discount season and should be able to trade up without a major loss.

This sounds like a great idea. Thank you. In fact, there are three scoots on the Albuquerque Craigslist right now that I've been "looking" at, 2 Buddy's and a P150. All really very little used, with like 600 miles on them, still under warranty, which I understand is meaningless for a buyer, since the warranty doesn't transfer. Do you happen to know if this is accurate? I've looked at the topic here on the forum, and there doesn't seem to have been a definitive decision on this point. I suppose I could ask the dealer, since the Albuquerque dealership is owned by the same guy as the one in Santa Fe whom I've been talking to. Thanks again.

[JeremyZ]

Reading your requirements here, I really think you'd be better off with a motorcycle.

The bigger wheels are going to be oh so much better on the dirt road. You can pick up a nice used 250 for around $1500. I just sold my Nighthawk 250 for $1300 a couple months ago, in the dead of the Chicago winter. The only thing it needed was a seat. It topped out at 72 and got at least 72 mpg also.

If you live and commute in a rural area, motorcycles are more fun to ride, though they have to be adapted a bit more to get storage space. They have better brakes in most cases.

I'd look for a small motorcycle, at least 175cc. If you are really leaning towards a scooter, look for a clean used Helix on ebay. That was the original maxi-scooter, and with all the posh ones coming out now by Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha, Kymco, and Piaggio, the Helix is all but forgotten. It is 1980s tech, and Honda has it priced within $300 of their new 250cc Reflex, the silly fools.

[healingpath]

Reading your requirements here, I really think you'd be better off with a motorcycle.

Thanks for your suggestions Jeremy. I guess I'm determined at this point to stick to the scooter world. I'm willing to leave motorcycles in the back of my mind as an option, but I'm not wanting to go that route now. There's something about scooters that are just more appealing to me. They represent something lighter - in many senses - and simpler, and humbler. These are just my thoughts, maybe they don't make sense to anyone else. In any case, I'm willing to look back and say to myself: "They were right. You need a motorcycle", if it should come to that. But I'm not there now. Blessings.

[dru_]

Regarding the Warranty, it depends heavily on the state you live in. Some states, the warranty is transferrable regardless of the wording on the warranty itself , generally any state with a lemon law, also enforces warranty issues so that dealerships can't buy back lemon's and resell them without warranty.

That said, a dealer is under no obligation to perform work under warranty in most states. So the pickle is less, is the warranty transferrable, and more, is my dealer willing to perform warranty work (and submit the paperwork to the vendor etc..) on a resold bike, and when there is an issue be willing to absorb some or all of the cost of a denied warranty claim.

Most reputable dealers seem to take the customer service high road and do the right thing. Meaning, if it's clearly warranty work, call the manufacturer and get the approval, then do the work. If the claim is subsequently denied or partially denied, they make a case by case judgement of charging the customer or eating the cost, or asking the customer to meet in the middle.

In the two brands mentioned, Genuine has a pretty good reputation. Kymco it seems is in the same boat, with an excellent reputation in terms of service and reliability.

This post covers the topic in great detail:

viewtopic.php?t=1003&highlight=warranty

Kymco USA (and this is apparently their choice as the importer, not handed down from Kymco HQ) states transferable on the warranty, as advertised by several of their dealers ( http://www.cbxmanmotorcycles.com/Scoote ... nties.aspx ). My paperwork is at home, so I'd have to check, but I don't think it's stated on the card itself, and manufacturer policies can change like the wind.

Now, do yourself a favor and take anything published on CBXMan with a grain of salt, but I *think* my dealer reiterated the same thing a year ago.

[San Francisco]

Having had about 200 motorcycles and scooters, I have an opinion.

Since you want to stick to the scooter, you need to get one of the bigger CC models, at least a 250, but even larger. What you really need to concentrate on, however, is getting a scooter big enough to make the commute safe and comfortable, and one that can handle the interstate when you will inevitably travel on that road.

You need a larger scooter so to physically handle going freeway speeds, 55 mph and above. Scooters in size and weight similar to the Buddy are just too small. One thing you definitely do NOT want to do is travel at 50 mph+ on a scooter with small tires, such as those on the Buddy and other Vespa sized scooters. Small tires, fast speeds and ruts on the highway are a lousy combination. I always say that the faster the speed and longer the ride, the more you need big tires and a fast scooter.

I can assure you that commuting 30 miles on a "Buddy sized" scooter will become a scary event, real fast. You need physical size and power when commuting on the highways. Mentally, you need to feel like something bigger than a fly when on the interstate. When on the interstate you need lots of power and acceleration to merge on to the interstate and to get out of tight spots.

You have to remember that scooters are trampled on by cars all the time, so much so that while riding you are 100% on the defense the entire commute. Many, many times I have saved myself by being able to power up my motorcycles to get out of a tight spot.

An underpowered Buddy type scooter will never be able to power up to get out of harm's way. You pretty much would have to stay in the slow lane and pray the whole way.

So what you really need is some type of scooter that is almost a motorcycle, or a hybrid, if you will. I don't know much about what is out there in the scooter world that would meet the above requirements, but one that comes to mind is the Honda Helix or something like that model.

To add more vinegar to this post, IMHO I don't think even a 250 cc scooter will work, mainly because while you may have the engine size, those scooters are just a tad bigger than the Buddy, meaning these scooters are just plain too small for a 30 mile commute on "freeway speed" highways.

That's my take on it.

[Keys]

Hmm. It's a good thing I don't agree...I'd have missed some of the most spectacular rides I've experienced in my 38 years of riding. I've road-raced, built my own (from the ground up) choppers and restored old iron. I don't own a Buddy because it is incapable of doing what I want it to do. It can do anything I ask of it...and comfortably. I wouldn't ask it to cruise the freeway at 75 mph, but I would ask it to take the secondary road to the same place and enjoy the slower pace. I regularly do WELL over 30 mile trips with the scooter just happily burbling beneath me. I have a 300 mile ride coming up in May and I'm planning an over 3000 mile ride to Baton Rouge and back. The only time a longer trip would be unpleasant would be if you subscribe to what we in the Marine Corps called the "4-P" principle...Piss Poor Prior Planning.

And yes, I spend most of my time at full throttle and thoroughly enjoy the handling characteristics of my Buddy at 60, 65 or 70 mph. It's just what you get used to.

Again, I remember when a 500 was a BIG motorcycle. In 1976 I rode a Yamaha RD250 from San Diego to Denver and back. Twice. It was NOT a small motorcycle...it was a mid-sized bike. We as a society have simply blindly followed the "bigger is better" axiom, and failed to look back on what was possible, probable and realistic just a few years earlier. 750cc and bigger is NOT required for a long trip. I've had 250's that would do over 100 mph and sustain 80. Yes, your motorscooter is smaller and lighter than most people would care to deal with, but as an enthusiast, you will learn to compensate and ultimately wear your abilities as a badge of accomplishment and honor. And rightly so.



--Keys

[San Francisco]

I guess one has to take things in the context of where one is riding. I am speaking from riding in the San Francisco Bay Area, where everyone drives like idiots.

Sure, on the back "country roads" one can toodle on Buddy sized scooters, but get on the freeway it's a death trap waiting to be sprung. Reality is, scooters cannot mingle on the Bay Area interstates. And even on the back roads cars still move in unpredictable and careless ways, so much so that one needs some extra power to get out of harm's way.

Validation of my points is evident when one considers three facts:

1) In the Bay Area I have never seen a scooter on the highways, nor for that matter, even on the back roads;

2) There are even few motorcycles on the Bay Area freeways. I can ride from San Francisco to San Jose and see maybe two or three bikes the entire round trip; and

3) Seems almost daily that the news mentions yet another motorcycle fatality on the freeway. Fact is, riding motorcycles on Bay Area roads is an accident waiting to happen.

Maybe where he will be riding does not have conditions similar to those experienced in the Bay Area, but he did mention that he may take the interstate at times, as part of the commute. IMHO all it takes is one time on the freeway for an accident to occur.

I still think he needs what I would call a "commuter scooter" meaning a scooter with large tires, some overall heft, good power/acceleration and some comfort [a large comfortable seat, windshield, superior suspension, easy to operate controls].

IMHO Buddy-type scooters are perfect for around town commuting, trips to the market, friends' houses, etc. , but NOT long distance commutes [to me 60 miles round trip is a long commute].

[paige]

My husband regularly rides scooters and a motorcycle 120 mile round trip on his commute to work. From the East Bay to the South Bay, 24, 980, 580, 880, 237, 101, 85, and all the bridges. Scooters are capable machines. Bikes are everywhere. Do you ride during commute hours? Do you ride outside the city? Do you ask where all those bikes parked in the financial district come from? It takes skill and balls to ride in the Bay Area. I don't commute, so I can pick and choose when and if I want to go over the bridge or up to Napa. But I do it. All the time. It is a calculated risk to ride a two wheeled vehicle in the Bay Area, but it is also to drive here. You play the hand you are dealt. I know a bunch of people that ride only in the city, or in the sun, and many more that have a scooter as a sole form of transportation. They are out in the rain, in the dark, trying to dodge the streetcar tracks and the deadly Muni buses, but they are out there, riding. Maybe commuting thirty miles on a bike as a newbie is ambitious, but the OP is looking for a new way, cause the one he/ she has isn't working.

[jaded]

Validation of my points is evident when one considers three facts:

1) In the Bay Area I have never seen a scooter on the highways, nor for that matter, even on the back roads;

2) There are even few motorcycles on the Bay Area freeways. I can ride from San Francisco to San Jose and see maybe two or three bikes the entire round trip; and

1) Look out tomorrow for the contingent of scooters riding on the freeway from SF to San Jose, then meeting up with a larger contingent of scooters for the 3 Peaks Challenge, to ride Mount Hamilton, Mount Diablo and Mount Tam, including all the freeways in-between and the Richmond Bridge.
I personally ride my scoot on the back roads of the SF area and the East Bay quite often, as do many of my friends.

2)I commute several times a week from SF to San Jose (not on my scoot, but that's my personal choice). I see more motorcycles than I can shake a stick at, both directions, at all times of the day.

[San Francisco]

My husband regularly rides scooters and a motorcycle 120 mile round trip on his commute to work. From the East Bay to the South Bay, 24, 980, 580, 880, 237, 101, 85, and all the bridges. Scooters are capable machines. Bikes are everywhere. Do you ride during commute hours? Do you ride outside the city? Do you ask where all those bikes parked in the financial district come from? It takes skill and balls to ride in the Bay Area. I don't commute, so I can pick and choose when and if I want to go over the bridge or up to Napa. But I do it. All the time. It is a calculated risk to ride a two wheeled vehicle in the Bay Area, but it is also to drive here. You play the hand you are dealt. I know a bunch of people that ride only in the city, or in the sun, and many more that have a scooter as a sole form of transportation. They are out in the rain, in the dark, trying to dodge the streetcar tracks and the deadly Muni buses, but they are out there, riding. Maybe commuting thirty miles on a bike as a newbie is ambitious, but the OP is looking for a new way, cause the one he/ she has isn't working.

Actually I race bikes. And I was born in San Francisco and have ridden bikes of all kind within the City limits and up and down California. I have tackled the hills on Harleys, R1s, Ducatis, F4is, Vespas, mopeds, and others. So don't make assumptions about balls. It seems you have misinterpreted my posts as an indication that I'm some kind of know nothing pansy.

Fact is, for the number of cars that there are on the road in the Bay Area there are very, very few motorcycles.

And if you count how many bikes there are in the Financial District [I have, because my office is in that area] there are in fact very few bikes and scooters in comparison to how many cars there are and how many people work downtown.

In fact, do YOU know how many motorcycle spaces there are in the Financial District? I do because there was a proposal to increase the number from the few parking spaces that there are in the District. I don't think that less than 100 motorcycle spaces would cause one to conclude that there are a lot of motorcyclists in this town nor to wonder "Gee, where did all these bikes come from?"

And living in the City and and watching the news I can recall the many times riders have got injured or killed in and around the City [recall the one at the toll plaza this week where a 52 year old on a cruiser on his way to work at 5:30 a.m. was killed when a Honda changed lanes and the bike ran into it].

The OP is asking about what size scooter is best for his commute. I don't think stories about having balls helps much in that regard.

And I totally disagree that in the Bay Area there are many scooters on the freeways, if that is what you were implying. In all my years of driving and riding on the freeways I would have noticed a "Buddy-sized" scooter on the freeways. A few times I have seen scooters less than 250 cc in size getting on the freeway and then off the next exit. But never have I seen one commuting.

[healingpath]

Well, thank you all for your experiences and thoughts about this theme of
mine. I'm looking forward to learning as I go, staying safe as I can, and finding out what the machine and I want to and can realistically do together.
The search, for now, is over, by the way. After a few more days of talking with people, checking out a couple a like-new used bikes, and actually getting to test ride both a Buddy and a People 150, my local dealer - Richard at Centaur Cycles and Scooters in Santa Fe - made me an offer on an 07 People (big wheels) that I decided was too good to pass up, so I bought it. I haven't picked it up yet, maybe tomorrow, weather permitting, and when I do I'll be taking my first 30 mile ride home on it. Even though I only got to ride the Buddy for a few minutes, I can say I have a much better understanding of the enthusiasm you all have for it. It really impressed me as a great little bike. I could easily get excited about it. I also felt that the People was a great ride too. Bottom line seems to be that these are simply high quality machines, and I suspect that folks who ride them can't go wrong, keeping within those lines of what's real for the inherent limitations of each. I know I'm gonna be staying off of the interstate, at least until I learn the bike. I may want to try it, or I may not, depending on what I do learn. I'm feeling more confident about its ability to handle the two lane state road pretty easily though. We'll see. I'll also be taking the MSF course last weekend of the month, and expect that that will be thoroughly helpful. Like dru suggested: if I find that I need to trade up to something bigger, well, I guess I'll find a way to do that. Meantime, I'm waiting for the wind to die down so I can start riding.

[San Francisco]

Validation of my points is evident when one considers three facts:

1) In the Bay Area I have never seen a scooter on the highways, nor for that matter, even on the back roads;

2) There are even few motorcycles on the Bay Area freeways. I can ride from San Francisco to San Jose and see maybe two or three bikes the entire round trip; and

1) Look out tomorrow for the contingent of scooters riding on the freeway from SF to San Jose, then meeting up with a larger contingent of scooters for the 3 Peaks Challenge, to ride Mount Hamilton, Mount Diablo and Mount Tam, including all the freeways in-between and the Richmond Bridge.
I personally ride my scoot on the back roads of the SF area and the East Bay quite often, as do many of my friends.

2)I commute several times a week from SF to San Jose (not on my scoot, but that's my personal choice). I see more motorcycles than I can shake a stick at, both directions, at all times of the day.

Well, I don't think special events count. Fact is, in a commute situation Vespa and Buddy scooters have no business being on the freeways. And as far as I can tell, most scooterists know this because I never see them on the freeways.

I don't think that the occasional rogue on a 150 cc scooter who does venture on to the freeways evidences that scooters on freeways is the norm. In fact, if I saw someone commuting in 70 mph++ traffic on a little scooter, I'd label that person a fool. [But that's my personal opinion].

And the fact remains, there are not that many motorcycles on the Bay Area freeways.

So the OP can glean whatever he wants from all this. He did the right thing in asking for opinions. And he sure got the full range, from "have some balls" to "be careful out there."

[jgalar]

The problem I have with the scooter market is the 250cc range scoots are overpriced. For what you pay for a 250cc scoot you can buy a 250cc-650cc Japanese motorcycle.